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Guild wars is NOT a MMORPG!
Instago
Member Posts: 109
First, a question: What is your exact definition of a MMORPG? I would define it as a game where several thousand players can play together in the same world. Disregarding server technical specifications, a TRUE MMORPG would allow all players to be in one area of the game at one time and one that would allow players to change the world as a whole. Guild wars is basically a conglomerate of shards of instances- it is impossible for all players to be in the same area of the world at one time, it is also impossible, with instances, to allow players to change the world.
Taken directly from www.guildwars.com I give you the following:
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)? ((I suggest reading the third paragraph if anything))
Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences. Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.
Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. In Guild Wars much of the tedium of traveling through the world has been eliminated. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they have previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.
Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-vs-guild warfare or the international tournament. Engaging in combat is always the player's choice, however; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.
Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -- they are not divided onto different servers or shards -- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.
Notice they use servers or shards- this doesn't relate anything to the fact that almost 98% of the game is instanced. In my humble and honest opinion, Guild Wars is not a MMORPG and should NOT be listed on this website as one.
Take away the single player functionality of Diablo 2 and change the chat rooms to an in game area- is it now an MMORPG?
Comments
I'm not sure why you are so upset about it...
If it bothers you so much ignore it. /shrug
Yeah, I'd do Betty....
But I'd be thinking about Wilma.
Actually if you would do a little research and then post, you wouldn't make a complete arse of yourself. On Guild Wars official website, the listed it as a mmocg (massive multiplayer online competitive game). So yes, by the developers definition, it is not a mmorpg.
Why does this game concern you then? You won't be playing it I assume. Are you somehow obligated to give attention to it just because it exists?
Instago is just saying what desperately needed to be posted on this website.
The people who make the website can put anything their hears desire on here.
I suppose by the same standard you can post whatever you want to in the forums (so long as it follows the rules)... I just wonder why he would bother?
Yeah, I'd do Betty....
But I'd be thinking about Wilma.
I did do my research. You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head- my point exactly is that it is not a MMORPG.
To answer your first question- it concerns me because it is listed on a website of MMORPGs while it is not an mmorpg- if Starcraft, Age of Empires, Counter-strike, or Diablo 2 was listed on a website that is all about MMORPGs, what would you do? Likewise- if a RTS is listed on www.superduperfpsgames.com (not a real website, using this as an example) what would you do?
To answer the second question: I am not obligated to do anything- I am simply voicing my opinion. My point is: Guild Wars is not a MMORPG (in fact, it clearly states it on their website) yet it is listed on this website as one.
If you are referring to me, simply read above and you should be able to easily infer why I am bothering. It didn't take much time or effort to write this either and I wanted to bring up this point on this website- I'll gladly give five minutes of time for a good conversation and the possiblity of changing something (no matter how slim the chance)
Also, for those of you who think it is silly that I am voicing my opinion: Please do not post at all- it is not constructive nor does it help the conversation if you simply say 'Whats the deal? Who cares? Why do you care?'
True, but I am still allowed to voice my opinion.
What exactly justifies a game that clearly states it is different from a MMORPG to be listed as one on this website? That is quite misleading- on the rating system, I dont want a non-MMORPG to be rated against another game on a rating system specifically designed for MMORPGs.
If sharing my all knowing wisdom offends you I apologize........kinda!
Here, let me elaborate:
I am referring to MMORPGs- there is a difference between a true MMORPG and an Online Role Playing Game- here, I'll walk this through with you to see why it can be misleading. The MMORPG need not be a 'cookie cutter EQ' game, unless you view every MMORPG as one.
Both are/ have:
Many players online
Role playing games
The differences;
MMORPG: All players interact and exist in the same world. MMORPGs are meant to be an immersive world, much like real life (I don't see places in real life where you could do something in one place that does not effect anything elsewhere) If Player A kills a goblin in one area, player B will see it be killed, and so will Group C, and player D, the one travelling through the area- in addition, Player D can now run through the spot and reach his destination quicker because of the actions of Player A; Group C will only have to deal with 4 goblins instead of 5; Player B can now safely gather the herb that the goblin was guarding. Every player is affected by this mere killing of a goblin. There are some instances in these games, but the majority (over 90%) is not instanced.
Online Role Playing Game: Players are placed in an area to chat and then move on to instanced (seperated areas of the game world) where decisions and choices are made. These do not effect any other parts of the game other than the instanced area at hand, which does have a cap on the maximum number of players that can enter. (Example of an instance: Group A enters 'The Dark Forest'- the zone is loaded with only the players in Group A. Group B enters 'The Dark Forest'- the zone is loaded with only the players in Group B- they are completely seperate from Group A but are in the exact same zone as them. It is impossible for Group A to see, notice, or feel the effects of the actions of Group
The majority (over 90%) of this game is instanced.
[quote]Originally posted by Instago
[b]
To answer your first question- it concerns me because it is listed on a website of MMORPGs while it is not an mmorpg- if Starcraft, Age of Empires, Counter-strike, or Diablo 2 was listed on a website that is all about MMORPGs, what would you do? Likewise- if a RTS is listed on www.superduperfpsgames.com (not a real website, using this as an example) what would you do?
To answer the second question: I am not obligated to do anything- I am simply voicing my opinion. My point is: Guild Wars is not a MMORPG (in fact, it clearly states it on their website) yet it is listed on this website as one.
Alright, my response to you is that MMORPG means:
Your opinion seems to be saying it must conform to your worldview for it to be okay. I would love for you to point out where on this website it says that Guild Wars is a MMORPG. Even at best, it is. At worst, it is so closely related to standard MMORPG fare that it deserves to be here. Despite what you might believe, Guild Wars is clearly targeted to the same people who play MMOs that fit your definition of being one.
I make you this promise. Guild Wars is the basis for how ALL future MMOs will be constructed. Instancing is the future. There will be variations on that theme however, and I imagine then that someone like yourself will say that so and so game is NOT an MMCRPG (or whatever it's termed) and raise a big stink over nothing. Sure, a Ferrari is a work of art, but it's still just a car. Likewise, Guild Wars is an MMORPG despite how Arenanet is pushing it.
Here, let me elaborate:
I am referring to MMORPGs- there is a difference between a true MMORPG and an Online Role Playing Game- here, I'll walk this through with you to see why it can be misleading. The MMORPG need not be a 'cookie cutter EQ' game, unless you view every MMORPG as one.
Both are/ have:
Many players online
Role playing games
The differences;
MMORPG: All players interact and exist in the same world. MMORPGs are meant to be an immersive world, much like real life (I don't see places in real life where you could do something in one place that does not effect anything elsewhere) If Player A kills a goblin in one area, player B will see it be killed, and so will Group C, and player D, the one travelling through the area- in addition, Player D can now run through the spot and reach his destination quicker because of the actions of Player A; Group C will only have to deal with 4 goblins instead of 5; Player B can now safely gather the herb that the goblin was guarding. Every player is affected by this mere killing of a goblin. There are some instances in these games, but the majority (over 90%) is not instanced.
Online Role Playing Game: Players are placed in an area to chat and then move on to instanced (seperated areas of the game world) where decisions and choices are made. These do not effect any other parts of the game other than the instanced area at hand, which does have a cap on the maximum number of players that can enter. (Example of an instance: Group A enters 'The Dark Forest'- the zone is loaded with only the players in Group A. Group B enters 'The Dark Forest'- the zone is loaded with only the players in Group B- they are completely seperate from Group A but are in the exact same zone as them. It is impossible for Group A to see, notice, or feel the effects of the actions of Group
The majority (over 90%) of this game is instanced.
The term MMORPG was first used to give the first games such as UO and Everquest a genre to fall into. So really MMORPG is usually associated with monthly fees, persistent multi-server, and a dynamically changing world. Guild Wars takes the best elements of an MMO (such as a changing world w/o the hassles that come with it)but it is not your traditional MMORPG because ArenaNet does not want to be associated with that term first laid by UO. Imo, it's both an MMO and RPG but not an MMORPG. But really it depends on who you ask.
I don't know why people even try but there is no need to have 1,000 people fit in your screen. In a persistent world there are thousands of players playing simultaneously, but let me ask you this, how many of them you will interact with or better how many of them you will get a chance to see. When you're doing a mission with your party, people have no business interrupting your mission, if that's what you want to call it. There are so many advantages to a partial instanced game, however that's a different topic.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Screw it....lets call it a MMORPCG(MassivelyMulti-playerOnlineRolePlayingCompetitiveGame)
Its roleplaying yet competitive.AND it can stay on MMORPG.COM
COUNTER-STRIKE PWNZ!
oh the horror! the OP is absolutely right! This game has invaded the holy sanctum of mmorpg'egness and every game listed on this site is now doomed to years of mis-labelling of the correct genre of video game!!
good christ some kittens will perish for this one!
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Definitions of MMORPG on the Web:
* A massive(ly) multiplayer online role-playing game or MMORPG is a multiplayer computer role-playing game that enables thousands of players to play in an evolving virtual world at the same time over the Internet. MMORPGs are a specific type of massive(ly) multiplayer online game (MMOG).
Link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG
Hmm lets see...guild wars has role-playing where you do quests...thousands of players connect at the same time over the internet....Looks to me like guild wars has everything listed above, there should be no arguments about it. it is a MMORPG.
guild wars is not like an mmorpg. if the way you take that definition counter-strike would be considered an mmo. you can role play and tens of thousands of people are connected at the same time over the internet.
guild-wars is like a hotel.... you got the main lobbies and then the rooms... that isnt an mmo. an mmorpg is 1 worlds with avatars living together in it at the same time.
but anyways, the op with the evercrack avatar you right, but stop posting because it is useless. these kids are just like the halo2 and wow fanbois. there is no chance in hell they will understand since they are all little professors.
Well, according to some of you, none of the new games are MMORPGs anymore. They all have instances. Once you enter an instance in WoW, you're no longer playing a MMORPG. Once you enter Antonica (2) in EQ2, you're no longer playing a MMORPG. At least according to your "definition"s. Many of you also like to say, "In a MMORPG you directly change the game world". Uh, to a limited, VERY limited, extent this is true in many of the MMORPGs. Like the OP said, Team A kills Mob B, so Team C sees that happen and doesn't have to worry about Mob B. So what? That is such a minor effect on any persons experience in a game. A couple games have tried to make a world truely affected by players. Horizons comes to mind. WoW? Uh, no. A person on server Bloodscalp kills Mob A, well guess what, a person on server Stormreaver will never notice. Oops, guess WoW isn't a MMORPG. Ok, so maybe Mob A is too miniscule to matter and is a bad example. Let's take Onyxia as an example! Guild A kills Onyxia on server Bloodscalp. Hmm, wait, Guild B on server Stormreaver isn't affected by this either. Ooops! WoW isn't a MMORPG by your definitions.
I think my point here is that there is NO set definition of what a MMORPG is. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Massive? More than 10 people? More than 1000 people? Yep, they all seem to fit that. Multiplayer? Yep, more than one person seems to be playing these games, so they all fit that. Online? Yep, they're all online and so they all fit that. Role Playing? Well, any game can involve role playing, although I hardly ever saw any in WoW. I suppose if one person in 200,000 role plays though, a game can be considered a Role Playing game. So yep, they all fit that. Game? Er, yep, they're all games too! Wow, by these simple definitions AO, EQ, AC, AC2, EQ2, WoW, CoH, E&B, RYL, etc., and... yep, GW, all are MMORPGs.
No, Guild Wars isn't quite the *traditional* MMORPG, compared to many others. This is just another case of humans trying to classify another species exactly. Hell, look automobiles. Trucks and Cars? Nope, SUV's, work trucks, sedans, sports cars... Wait no, some are hybrids. Ah hell, now we have to come up with new classifications because that station wagon goes faster than that sport car. And that sedan has four wheel drive and a higher clearance than that SUV.
Give it up guys, calling Guild Wars a MMORPG is just as valid as you saying it isn't. Until the government makes it a capital crime and it's written into the constitution, it's pointless.
strictly speaking most MMORPG's aren't single world, they're split over multiple servers...
GW is more like a MMORPG than a single player game. It's online population will be directly comparable to a MMORPG. It's quite clear that the majority of MMORPG.com users are happy with GW being on the boards. It's clear that the admins of the site are happy for GW to be represented here.
Instancing is (IMO) going to be used more and more in games to reduce network load, even single shard games like eve are using it (to the detriment of the rest of the game, but thats more a risk/reward thing that I won't expand on).
It is perfectly possible in GW to play with thousands of others, just not all at the same time. You are in complete control of who you want to play the RPG with, but can choose from a massive number of people.
I understand that some people don't agree with the reason d'etre of GW, but trying to censor it (which is what you are trying to do, most forum posters wouldn't be so an*lly retentive about it) simply makes you appear a jealous troll that doesn't have anything better to do than grief forums. Go play whatever game you're playing and let us enjoy GW (and discussing it) in peace.
(though all the GW posts in general discussion can be annoying, they're nothing compared to the EQ2vWoW cr*p everyone had to put up with)
BTW this post is like so 6 months ago, it's a bit late to argue for it's removal from MMORPG.com's servers now...
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PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Friends, no matter what you believe, I may still argue my opinion- breaking the forum rules merely leads to the deletion of your post. I am not trying to troll, nor flame- I am trying to argue my side. You argue your side, we'll have a good time
.
On that note, this brings up another point: www.mmorpg.com needs to have a place where we can clearly see exactly what it means by MMORPG- they need to have their own definition. Another reason why we're having this conflict is because there really isn't an exact definition for the term MMORPG. It is all opinion- there isn't a place we can go for an exact standard. Even in the FAQ, www.mmorpg.com lists no question for "What is a MMORPG" yet simply assumes that all users know exactly what a MMORPG is. Since my argument is mostly based around the definition of a MMORPG (one persistant game world) it could have easily been thwarted if there was a true, exact definition of MMORPG on this website.
I apologize guild warriors, but this should have been placed in the 'General Discussion' perhaps? I did not want to disturb the peace- merely try to bring up somethings that have been nagging me for a while. If anyone knows how to get this moved to 'General Discussion---> The Pub at MMORPG.COM' please do so.
GRRR- I just wrote about 4-5 paragraphs and all if it was lost when it wasn't posted =/. Oh well, there goes the discussion- I'm not completely willing right at this moment to complete rewrite what I just wrote. Here, I'll try again:
I want a the conflict of real life in my MMORPGs- that is, dynamic changes (changing changes) I want a world where there are less restrictions just like life (complete anarchy until communities form) I want a real world- a hard, world- one with strife, conflict, hardship and other times easy-going (mind you most of this is based on the opinion/ mood of the user) I love life so much that I want to take some of it's qualities and make it into a game- sue me :P.
You see, conflict (this does not necessarily mean violence) brings changes in our world. Conflict, be it an argument, or even a war (eeeek!) changes our world. Just like the middle-eastern conflict affects many other nations. It has formed 'groups' of people- one could even say it has torn us apart, or even brought us together (I believe both, but thats another story)
I am sick of how most MMORPGs have a game world seen through 'rose-coloured glasses.' I want a 'hardcore' world- one without restrictions of one's own actions. Going slightly off topic here: now, before you even ask- I am not a player killer, nor do I enjoy killing other players (and even with the new Honor System in World of Warcraft, I still refrain from killing others on a PvP server! Why did I join a PvP server if I didnt want to kill others? Because I still have the choice if I wanted to) Even if I do not want to do something, I still want to have the choice to do so! I do not want to murder anyone or hurt anyone in real life, but do I have the choice? Yes.
Basically, I want a MMORPG with little to no restrictions on actions and a vast variety of server types ranging from the 'PvE crafting' servers to a 'hardcore' server. How do you sell a game like this? Simply do what I just told you in addition to making an appealing game (well, easier said than done, but it is still a good idea, in my opinion, nonetheless)
Basically, I want simulation of real life in a video game setting. However, this may mean a lot, but it is not the Sims. We do not need to go that in depth, and I'd prefer we didn't . Lets keep it to the adventuring, crafting, and combat, shall we? Why? Because I see the 'upkeep/ utility' necessities as life as the largest annoyances, not some 'relationship breakdown' at work or school.
Now, you've seen me coin the term 'hardcore.' It means life-like- anarchy. I stress, however, that conflict and strife can bring together safe communities (look at real life, look at civilization, pick up a history book)
A little about me so you know where I'm coming from: I am currently subscribed to World of Warcraft and am also considering subscribing to EverQuest 2. I have played around twenty or so MMO games (be it MMOFPS, MMORTS, what ever have you)
With my final words I'd like to reiterate what I have said above in a rather small comment: I want anarchy in MMOs.
Oh, and GUILD WARS IS NOT A MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME!
why should the term be limited to a single definition? All that would do is cause yet more confusion when a game comes along that is very close to the definition but still fall outside it. There are huge differences in games accepted as being MMORPG's, Eve-online is a completely different MMORPG to EQ2 for example, planetside is considered a MMORPG as is WW2 online. In the end, why does it matter what something is called? I would personally call Diablo 2's online elements an MMORPG, if there wasn't a single player offline game it would already be on this site IMO.
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PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
It matters because if none of the words in this sentence had a standard definition, no one would be able to understand it. We have systems like money and the metric system so people have a basis to do business with, whatever that may be.
It should be limited to a single definition so we can simply say 'Oh, that right there Ma is a MMORPG!' and be done with it, rather than debate over the endless thousands of opinions of people with their own definition of MMORPG.
These games have quite large asthetic differences but still have one thing in common at the end; they are presistant, online worlds where many people can gather and influence the course of the same world.
Actually- this is what exactly Guild Wars is, this is the confusion. I am confused because no one really knows whether Guild Wars is a MMORPG because we have no basis for our opinion. We can all agree what a color is, correct ? (definition taken from www.dictionary.com)
Color:
1. That aspect of things that is caused by differing qualities of the light reflected or emitted by them, definable in terms of the observer or of the light, as:
1. The appearance of objects or light sources described in terms of the individual's perception of them, involving hue, lightness, and saturation for objects and hue, brightness, and saturation for light sources.
2. The characteristics of light by which the individual is made aware of objects or light sources through the receptors of the eye, described in terms of dominant wavelength, luminance, and purity.
2. A substance, such as a dye, pigment, or paint, that imparts a hue.
3.
1. The general appearance of the skin; complexion.
2. A ruddy complexion.
3. A reddening of the face; a blush.
4. The skin pigmentation of a person not categorized as white.
5. colors A flag or banner, as of a country or military unit.
6. colors The salute made during the ceremony of raising or lowering a flag.
7. colors A distinguishing symbol, badge, ribbon, or mark: the colors of a college.
8. colors One's opinion or position: Stick to your colors.
9. Character or nature. Often used in the plural: revealed their true colors.
10.
1. Outward appearance, often deceptive: a tale with the merest color of truth.
2. Appearance of authenticity: testimony that lends color to an otherwise absurd notion.
11.
1. Variety of expression.
2. Vivid, picturesque detail: a story with a lot of color in it.
12. Traits of personality or behavior that attract interest.
13. The use or effect of pigment in painting, as distinct from form.
14. Music. Quality of tone or timbre.
15. Law. A mere semblance of legal right.
16. A particle or bit of gold found in auriferous gravel or sand.
17. Physics. A quantum characteristic of quarks that determines their role in the strong interaction.
Sure, it has many definitions, but at least now we have a basis for what a color is. Now, with a definition such as this, we can easily see that 'color' can mean character or nature, or a person's skin that is a different appearance than white in addition to a multitude of other things.
The 'standard definition' of MMORPG is derived from UO and Everquest....The dictionary did not make it up
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
My point is we need to have definitions for words. Also, since you know where the definition is derived from, can you tell us it?
That definition of colour shows exactly what i'm talking about - there are 24 meanings attributed to that one word. Why limit the term MMORPG to just one?
but that wouldn't be the end of it. Becuase then you have to decide what GW is...then you have a million different terms for things that are essentially the same. You could have MMOIG's, MMOFPSes, MOG's, MMOG's, CORPG's and hundreds of other classifications. To be honest, when speaking i only ever use MMO anyway the RPG bit confuses people
As for the persistant world thing, most of the time those games that do have a persistant world don't use it fully by letting the player alter it, Arena.net decided that rather than have a resource hungry persistant world that isnt dynamic they'd make GW instanced and at the same time make it f2p.
Your comments about a 'hardcore' game are all laudible, but completely the opposite of what's intended for GW. Rather than EQ2 (which is about as non-hardcore as you can get) I'd suggest you try eve-online, it's pretty close to what you describe.
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PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...