Nerf sprinting

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by denshing

Yeah, that's right. Sprinting should be nerfed. The cooldown on sprint is so low you can sprint just a few seconds after the current sprint ends. As it was in phase 4, it was too convenient to not be sprinting in the game (all the time), and it seems to almost completely invalidate your standard running.

I sprinted, a lot. It got things done faster, but I felt like I was racing to the next objective like a marathon runner (one on performance enhancing drugs). I'd much prefer it to not be something that's overly convenient, and largely mechanic altering.

What sort of sick, weird, masochist are you?

The kind that 's played DarkSouls without using any guides.

Draemos

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by denshing

Yeah, that's right. Sprinting should be nerfed. The cooldown on sprint is so low you can sprint just a few seconds after the current sprint ends. As it was in phase 4, it was too convenient to not be sprinting in the game (all the time), and it seems to almost completely invalidate your standard running.

I sprinted, a lot. It got things done faster, but I felt like I was racing to the next objective like a marathon runner (one on performance enhancing drugs). I'd much prefer it to not be something that's overly convenient, and largely mechanic altering.

What sort of sick, weird, masochist are you?

The kind that 's played DarkSouls without using any guides.

Nah, I play Dark Souls and Monster Hunter... but even I wouldn't nerf sprint in a MMO.  Difficulty and convenience are two different coins.  You have other problems my friend.

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by denshing

Yeah, that's right. Sprinting should be nerfed. The cooldown on sprint is so low you can sprint just a few seconds after the current sprint ends. As it was in phase 4, it was too convenient to not be sprinting in the game (all the time), and it seems to almost completely invalidate your standard running.

I sprinted, a lot. It got things done faster, but I felt like I was racing to the next objective like a marathon runner (one on performance enhancing drugs). I'd much prefer it to not be something that's overly convenient, and largely mechanic altering.

What sort of sick, weird, masochist are you?

The kind that 's played DarkSouls without using any guides.

Nah, I play Dark Souls and Monster Hunter... but even I wouldn't nerf sprint in a MMO.  Difficulty and convenience are two different coins.  You have other problems my friend.

The sprint in FFXIV ARR is definitely not the cliche sprint seen in "various mmo's out there." I'll give it that it's "unique."

NagelRitter

I'd make it a longer cooldown to make it less spammy, if anything.

StanlyStanko

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Draemos

What sort of sick, weird, masochist are you?

The kind that 's played DarkSouls without using any guides.

 

Jadedangel1

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Preythan
so...don't use sprint?

I expected this response. I gave you my reasoning for using it, and I'm arguing against having it because it IS too convenient. I will use it for the convenience, that doesn't mean I like the feature as a whole. I am not going to arbitrarily scale my character against the optimal mechanics in place. I'd much rather the mechanics to be scaled instead.

Right now they encourage everyone to race around, so they do. Don't let people do that, it's that simple. Quite frankly, the mechanic is stupid. I've never seen an mmorpg that invalidated the typical running animation so much.

Just because you can't handle it and have no self control why should it be nerfed for everyone else? Maybe nerf your impulses instead. Everyone is not like you, and it does not encourage everyone. Guess what? I played in beta 3 and phase 4 and did not use sprint even ONCE. 

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by NagelRitter
I'd make it a longer cooldown to make it less spammy, if anything.

That's along the lines of what I'm thinking. Add 20 seconds to it, then walla. The world ends. When I was sprinting in-game I was asking myself, is a mount really going to be much of an upgrade to this?

Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule
People are able to run too fast in real life - it's too convenient. Everytime I see someone sprinting, I shout at them to keep it to a brisk jog. I purposely run slower so as not to be ashamed at the convenience with which I can get things done. The fact that it drains all my energy is not good enough - everyone should just move slower.

yea...except casters use mp not tp yet sprint takes all tp. as a caster you can sprint all day/night in combat or not, right before combat to hurry to a mob or not and suffer nothting detrimental. but disciples of war cannot do this. and for this reason i find myself wanting to agree with OP but instead of just nerfing it to have a longer cooldown, they need to change the mechanic to be a skill that uses no resource(and have long cd) or take mp like it does tp.

twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

geel

I agree. I'm looking at my sprintmeter too much. It's like a really good in-combat buff that lasts for 5seconds and you can recast it in 5 seconds. It just distracts from more interesting things.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

why should he bother responding to your post? you completely ignored(or just didnt even understand) the main point of his post which is whats the point of having sprint be a skill we can use when we can have its uptime up 95% of the time it might as well be default running speed.

 

also i added another point of, it actually hurts disciples of war whereas disciples of magic suffer nothing from using it. that isn't fair.

aesperus

Originally posted by sisco1986
and then you engage 2 mobs with 0 tp and you have to run like a retard for 40 secs to get away

Pretty much this ^ (unless you're a caster, in which they're supposed to be able to run away when things get bad).

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule
People are able to run too fast in real life - it's too convenient. Everytime I see someone sprinting, I shout at them to keep it to a brisk jog. I purposely run slower so as not to be ashamed at the convenience with which I can get things done. The fact that it drains all my energy is not good enough - everyone should just move slower.

yea...except casters use mp not tp yet sprint takes all tp. as a caster you can sprint all day/night in combat or not, right before combat to hurry to a mob or not and suffer nothting detrimental. but disciples of war cannot do this. and for this reason i find myself wanting to agree with OP but instead of just nerfing it to have a longer cooldown, they need to change the mechanic to be a skill that uses no resource(and have long cd) or take mp like it does tp.

Considering this game leaves casters rooted 99.9% of the time and offers them almost ( I can't think of a single one) zero mobility spells, I'm pretty sure them being able to sprint is intentional.

zytin

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by zytin

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by zytin

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by twrule
People are able to run too fast in real life - it's too convenient. Everytime I see someone sprinting, I shout at them to keep it to a brisk jog. I purposely run slower so as not to be ashamed at the convenience with which I can get things done. The fact that it drains all my energy is not good enough - everyone should just move slower.

You're making a horrible argument comparing real life to video games. But if you want to be snoody and try to attack me in that manner then I'll just use some elementary reasoning skills to poke a gaping hole in your facepalm worthy response.

I don't see people sprinting from their car to get groceries. I don't see people sprinting to get into the movie theater, and I don't see people sprinting to get back into there car, unless they are being assaulted.

It was a bad satirical point to begin with, because if real life comparisons were a smart thing to make, then we'd all be complaining about how running in mmo's 100% of the time is unrealistic. But that's not the point, at all. If you don't like my opinion, tough.

And it's crybabies like you -the noisy minority- who ruin the fun for everyone else. 

 

Your logic is flawed.  Does sprint matter, since everyone has it?  Is it really too convenient?  You have an option to walk, if you like, slowly, as if you were in real life.  Why shouldn't running be turned into what sprinting is now, and sprinting be a skill that you have to develop, or one that is regulated by the character's endurance?   The fact of the matter is, you used sprint, and you're bitching about how you were able to use it, and how it made you get from point A to point B.  And yet you still did it.  You didn't have to, but you did, because you didn't want to not use a feature that everyone else used.  Basically, you're arguing that since you want to take forever getting from point A to point B, because that is YOUR ideal play style, everyone else should be forced to do the same thing.

 

Typical ignorant noisy minority BS that ruins every MMORPG that comes.  There's a reason why no online game every anywhere forces you to not move at a decent pace beyond walking.  Hell, by your argument, every person should only be able to run (x devided by endurcance) - y, run at (x devided by endurancex2) - y, etc.  Which would be cool, but I find myself getting rather bored when I have to spend a half hour getting from one place to another, or 15 minutes.  Even WOW stopped pulling that crap, because having to stare at your screen for a half hour just to get yourself from a city to a quest point is no longer entertaining to people. 

 

Stop trying to screw other people over because you don't like something.  I'd respect your opinion a lot more if you complained about how a 5 foot character could run just as fast and for just as long as a 6 foot character with long legs, or how a 400 pound giant could be outmuscled by a 90 pound wimp.  I always figured that different races should have HUGE differences in stats, myself.  Kitty-man can sprint and jump and travel in quick sprints, while lion-man could run longer, but slower while turtle man could barely jog, but good luck cracking his shell. 

 

Stop crying for nerfs.  Maybe instead everyone should be encouraging increases in abilities and vastness in differences between each type.  Stop trying to make everyone the same.

My opinion isn't based on "logic", it's based on subjective preference. Something I'm well aware of. It's a valid opinion no less.

The way the sprint feature works should never had made it into the game in the first place.

If you are attempting at a subjective debate, which is what this is, based upon your first post, then using terms like "Your argument is flawed" is flawed in and of itself, since everyone's "subjective" opinion holds equal value.  You are now contradicting yourself.  If my logic has no standing in this discussion, then neither does your subjectiveness.  Simply put, you are offering an opinion that how you think the game should have been made is better than how the game was made, and so everyone should be nerfed because you're an egotistical a-hole. 

 

TL;DR

Here lives a troll. 

My opinions on the feature are subjective but I'm not attempting to drive the discussion into real life comparisons to make a point. I'm keeping my opinions rooted where they belong, about the game. And no, your real world comparisons are not logical.

Besides that, people generally play certain mmo's based on subjective preferences, and then those people rationalize those preferences based on logical tendencies. Similar to this thread. The opening is opinionated, and yet logic weeds it's way through in an attempt to justify a would be high-ground.

Yes, I think the game would be better, in a small facet, if the sprint were altered. Not removed. I think it would be great if that were done.

I didn't use a real world example, that was someone else. 

 

I disagree that people play MMO's based on subjective preferences.  They play them based on whether or not they like the mechanics, theme, graphics, story, etc.  Personal preferences, likes and dislikes are not subjective, but relative, and are what drives companies to make choices on how they implement their products. 

 

In the instance of FFIV, sprint is not a skill or ability that is based upon individual characters.  I could get into the idea that different races had different caps on mobility/strength/intelligence, et al.  But to say that everyone should be nerfed to make gameplay slower because you would prefer it is in and of itself selfish on your part. If the game provided options that allowed players to select what elements they would prefer to have and not have, then that would be fair. 

 

The heart of the issue, in regards to speed of movement, goes more towards how MMO's aren't nearly as social as they used to be.  Players are more interested in rushing from goal to goal/quest to quest than exploring the environment, or being forced into social interactions.  When I have to spend a quarter of an hour to get get a quest, then go to deal with that quest by myself, it's just filling that I'm trying to get done as soon as possible.  If however, I was playing a game where I had to go prove my worth to be part of X class, which didn't involve me wasting a half hour going to go solo a group of fruit flies, just to run back and say "WOW, I killed a bunch of bugs!", I could spend my time traveling and running into all sorts of random and strange encounters, then speed of travel would be much less desireable, because I would be missing out on content.  As it stands, though, I don't see a problem with being able to sprint a lot when I'm mostly just rushing through load screens to get to pointless tasks than I should have been doing when my character was 4 years old.

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

why should he bother responding to your post? you completely ignored(or just didnt even understand) the main point of his post which is whats the point of having sprint be a skill we can use when we can have its uptime up 95% of the time it might as well be default running speed.

 

also i added another point of, it actually hurts disciples of war whereas disciples of magic suffer nothing from using it. that isn't fair.

DoW retain their mobility while doing... pretty much everything else... to a far greater extent than DoM.  Many of them even have mobility skills.

twrule

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

why should he bother responding to your post? you completely ignored(or just didnt even understand) the main point of his post which is whats the point of having sprint be a skill we can use when we can have its uptime up 95% of the time it might as well be default running speed.

 And apparently you completely ignored my post, which asked the OP to justify why that was a problem.

also i added another point of, it actually hurts disciples of war whereas disciples of magic suffer nothing from using it. that isn't fair.

Why isn't it fair? Just because it's not the 'same'? Give me one good reason why it shouldn't just be left as a perk for the caster's to enjoy.

Originally posted by Draemos

Considering this game leaves casters rooted 99.9% of the time and offers them almost zero mobility spells, I'm pretty sure them being able to sprint is intentional.

Exactly, Melee jobs would also benefit hugely more DPS-wise and tanking-wise, from being able to sprint freely, proportionately far more than casters do. It might give a slight DPS boost to Casters for being able to get one more spell in before they run from incoming AoEs, and it will somewhat improve the survivability of healers for the same reason. The caster and melee roles are not the same as each other, so why should they benefit exactly the same way from sprint?

Foomerang

Yeah buddy go ahead and spam sprint especially in pvp. you know it drains your tactical points to zero. so go ahead and sprint your dumbass right up to me and just stand there auto attacking for 15 seconds. If you're not dead by then, maybe you can spam sprint again and complain about it 

aesperus

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule
People are able to run too fast in real life - it's too convenient. Everytime I see someone sprinting, I shout at them to keep it to a brisk jog. I purposely run slower so as not to be ashamed at the convenience with which I can get things done. The fact that it drains all my energy is not good enough - everyone should just move slower.

yea...except casters use mp not tp yet sprint takes all tp. as a caster you can sprint all day/night in combat or not, right before combat to hurry to a mob or not and suffer nothting detrimental. but disciples of war cannot do this. and for this reason i find myself wanting to agree with OP but instead of just nerfing it to have a longer cooldown, they need to change the mechanic to be a skill that uses no resource(and have long cd) or take mp like it does tp.

Considering this game leaves casters rooted 99.9% of the time and offers them almost ( I can't think of a single one) zero mobility spells, I'm pretty sure them being able to sprint is intentional.

Aye, it's by design, and it makes sense. Casters need to be able to be mobile if in danger. Because once they get into a fight their movement is extremely limited. Even classes like ACN that have more instant casts don't typically get to move around much, because they still have spells with big casts times (like miasma: ~2.35 sec)

nimbuszero2

I feel all legs should be removed.

Shoko_Lied

 The heart of the issue, in regards to speed of movement, goes more towards how MMO's aren't nearly as social as they used to be.  Players are more interested in rushing from goal to goal/quest to quest than exploring the environment, or being forced into social interactions.  When I have to spend a quarter of an hour to get get a quest, then go to deal with that quest by myself, it's just filling that I'm trying to get done as soon as possible.  If however, I was playing a game where I had to go prove my worth to be part of X class, which didn't involve me wasting a half hour going to go solo a group of fruit flies, just to run back and say "WOW, I killed a bunch of bugs!", I could spend my time traveling and running into all sorts of random and strange encounters, then speed of travel would be much less desireable, because I would be missing out on content.  As it stands, though, I don't see a problem with being able to sprint a lot when I'm mostly just rushing through load screens to get to pointless tasks than I should have been doing when my character was 4 years old.

I think that current gen mmo's are actually reinforcing that by the way they implement mechanics. Also, I don't have any issue with sprinting from mundane quest to the next. That was the reason why I took advantage of the sprint. My issue comes in where the extreme convenience of sprint applies to doing just about (everything) else in the game. But they cannot just make it so people can sprint from quest to quest nearly without pause, then suddenly have a longer cooldown when doing other activities. This is why I went all in with my opinion of simply changing the mechanic.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule
People are able to run too fast in real life - it's too convenient. Everytime I see someone sprinting, I shout at them to keep it to a brisk jog. I purposely run slower so as not to be ashamed at the convenience with which I can get things done. The fact that it drains all my energy is not good enough - everyone should just move slower.

yea...except casters use mp not tp yet sprint takes all tp. as a caster you can sprint all day/night in combat or not, right before combat to hurry to a mob or not and suffer nothting detrimental. but disciples of war cannot do this. and for this reason i find myself wanting to agree with OP but instead of just nerfing it to have a longer cooldown, they need to change the mechanic to be a skill that uses no resource(and have long cd) or take mp like it does tp.

Considering this game leaves casters rooted 99.9% of the time and offers them almost ( I can't think of a single one) zero mobility spells, I'm pretty sure them being able to sprint is intentional.

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

why should he bother responding to your post? you completely ignored(or just didnt even understand) the main point of his post which is whats the point of having sprint be a skill we can use when we can have its uptime up 95% of the time it might as well be default running speed.

 

also i added another point of, it actually hurts disciples of war whereas disciples of magic suffer nothing from using it. that isn't fair.

DoW retain their mobility while doing... pretty much everything else... to a far greater extent than DoM.  Many of them even have mobility skills.

Originally posted by twrule

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

/Yawn. Still haven't responded to my last post, OP. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying you aren't going to try to justify your proposal with argumentation? Last I heard, this was a forum, not a vacuum into which bare opinions are shouted.

why should he bother responding to your post? you completely ignored(or just didnt even understand) the main point of his post which is whats the point of having sprint be a skill we can use when we can have its uptime up 95% of the time it might as well be default running speed.

 And apparently you completely ignored my post, which asked the OP to justify why that was a problem.

also i added another point of, it actually hurts disciples of war whereas disciples of magic suffer nothing from using it. that isn't fair.

Why isn't it fair? Just because it's not the 'same'? Give me one good reason why it shouldn't just be left as a perk for the caster's to enjoy.

Originally posted by Draemos

Considering this game leaves casters rooted 99.9% of the time and offers them almost zero mobility spells, I'm pretty sure them being able to sprint is intentional.

Exactly, Melee jobs would also benefit hugely more DPS-wise and tanking-wise, from being able to sprint freely, proportionately far more than casters do. It might give a slight DPS boost to Casters for being able to get one more spell in before they run from incoming AoEs, and it will somewhat improve the survivability of healers for the same reason. The caster and melee roles are not the same as each other, so why should they benefit exactly the same way from sprint?

You're all saying its justified because casters are generally rooted in battle. But why would you be sprinting while already in battle? I not talking about the specialized times either where a person is kiting because lts be honest, why would a caster be kiting, it'd be an archer.

 

I played Arcanist 1-20, THM 1-20, Conjurer 1-20, i used sprint in battle once....to run away cause i took on one of those higher lvl mobs near entrance at lvl 3 on accident due to tab target mistake. Everytime i was handheld with the "IM GOING TO ATTACK YOU HERE, DON'T STAND IN THIS SPOT" mechanic, i merely strafed out. It's stupid to think sprint is necessary to get out of the way of attacks for casters.

 

The main reason people use sprint is to get around in non-combat situations while doing quests or just exploring, not to use it in combat.

aesperus

Originally posted by denshing

 The heart of the issue, in regards to speed of movement, goes more towards how MMO's aren't nearly as social as they used to be.  Players are more interested in rushing from goal to goal/quest to quest than exploring the environment, or being forced into social interactions.  When I have to spend a quarter of an hour to get get a quest, then go to deal with that quest by myself, it's just filling that I'm trying to get done as soon as possible.  If however, I was playing a game where I had to go prove my worth to be part of X class, which didn't involve me wasting a half hour going to go solo a group of fruit flies, just to run back and say "WOW, I killed a bunch of bugs!", I could spend my time traveling and running into all sorts of random and strange encounters, then speed of travel would be much less desireable, because I would be missing out on content.  As it stands, though, I don't see a problem with being able to sprint a lot when I'm mostly just rushing through load screens to get to pointless tasks than I should have been doing when my character was 4 years old.

I think that current gen mmo's are actually reinforcing that by the way they implement mechanics. Also, I don't have any issue with sprinting from mundane quest to the next. That was the reason why I took advantage of the sprint. My issue comes in where the extreme convenience of sprint applies to doing just about (everything) else in the game. But they cannot just make it so people can sprint from quest to quest nearly without pause, then suddenly have a longer cooldown when doing other activities. This is why I went all in with my opinion of simply changing the mechanic.

Does this mean you're against mounts as well? Because at lvl 20 you won't be using sprint much at all anymore.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by denshing

 The heart of the issue, in regards to speed of movement, goes more towards how MMO's aren't nearly as social as they used to be.  Players are more interested in rushing from goal to goal/quest to quest than exploring the environment, or being forced into social interactions.  When I have to spend a quarter of an hour to get get a quest, then go to deal with that quest by myself, it's just filling that I'm trying to get done as soon as possible.  If however, I was playing a game where I had to go prove my worth to be part of X class, which didn't involve me wasting a half hour going to go solo a group of fruit flies, just to run back and say "WOW, I killed a bunch of bugs!", I could spend my time traveling and running into all sorts of random and strange encounters, then speed of travel would be much less desireable, because I would be missing out on content.  As it stands, though, I don't see a problem with being able to sprint a lot when I'm mostly just rushing through load screens to get to pointless tasks than I should have been doing when my character was 4 years old.

I think that current gen mmo's are actually reinforcing that by the way they implement mechanics. Also, I don't have any issue with sprinting from mundane quest to the next. That was the reason why I took advantage of the sprint. My issue comes in where the extreme convenience of sprint applies to doing just about (everything) else in the game. But they cannot just make it so people can sprint from quest to quest nearly without pause, then suddenly have a longer cooldown when doing other activities. This is why I went all in with my opinion of simply changing the mechanic.

Does this mean you're against mounts as well? Because at lvl 20 you won't be using sprint much at all anymore.

Yes, people will most definitely still be using sprint alot even past getting a mount. That's like saying once rogues in world of warcraft get mounts, they'll never use sprint again. I use sprint a lot even in places that i can get on my mount for a variety of reasons, but the main one being mounting takes time. Whether it has a cast time or animation time/lock, it takes time to mount up, and furthermore, it's a bit silly to mount up when i just want to run 10-20 yards to attack that goblin over there and in the time it takes me to mount i'd have already been halfway there if i just walked.

 

Sprint is instant. No wait time, no mount/dismount when it comes to combat. People will still be using sprint a great deal even after they have their mounts.

GeezerGamer

So, I guess with this thread, I can take it as good news?

Is the game really in that great a state right before launch that the best complaints we can come up with is that sprint has a 75% up time?

JeroKane

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by RavenHighwind

So because YOU don't like it ... you want 100s of 1000s of other players to get nerfed..

HAHAHAHAHA ... yea not happening. But nice try.

Yes I do want everyone to be nerfed. It's not going to kill them, it would just ease up the pace of the game. Is there a problem with that?

Oh the irony! Could say the same thing the other way around.

Other people sprinting in the game isn´t going to kill you either.

In other words. Let everyone play how they want to play. If people want to use sprint all the time in areas where there are lots of mobs and risk entering combat without TP. It´s their choice.

/end thread.