Nerf sprinting

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by denshing

 The heart of the issue, in regards to speed of movement, goes more towards how MMO's aren't nearly as social as they used to be.  Players are more interested in rushing from goal to goal/quest to quest than exploring the environment, or being forced into social interactions.  When I have to spend a quarter of an hour to get get a quest, then go to deal with that quest by myself, it's just filling that I'm trying to get done as soon as possible.  If however, I was playing a game where I had to go prove my worth to be part of X class, which didn't involve me wasting a half hour going to go solo a group of fruit flies, just to run back and say "WOW, I killed a bunch of bugs!", I could spend my time traveling and running into all sorts of random and strange encounters, then speed of travel would be much less desireable, because I would be missing out on content.  As it stands, though, I don't see a problem with being able to sprint a lot when I'm mostly just rushing through load screens to get to pointless tasks than I should have been doing when my character was 4 years old.

I think that current gen mmo's are actually reinforcing that by the way they implement mechanics. Also, I don't have any issue with sprinting from mundane quest to the next. That was the reason why I took advantage of the sprint. My issue comes in where the extreme convenience of sprint applies to doing just about (everything) else in the game. But they cannot just make it so people can sprint from quest to quest nearly without pause, then suddenly have a longer cooldown when doing other activities. This is why I went all in with my opinion of simply changing the mechanic.

Does this mean you're against mounts as well? Because at lvl 20 you won't be using sprint much at all anymore.

I'm not against mounts. They're a tried and true, integral parts of mmo's. Though it would be a shame if the mounts got a sprint buff that could be re-applied almost right after the sprint wears off.

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by RavenHighwind

So because YOU don't like it ... you want 100s of 1000s of other players to get nerfed..

HAHAHAHAHA ... yea not happening. But nice try.

Yes I do want everyone to be nerfed. It's not going to kill them, it would just ease up the pace of the game. Is there a problem with that?

Oh the irony! Could say the same thing the other way around.

Other people sprinting in the game isn´t going to kill you either.

In other words. Let everyone play how they want to play. If people want to use sprint all the time in areas where there are lots of mobs and risk entering combat without TP. It´s their choice.

/end thread.

It can be said the same the other way around, sure. So?

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by RavenHighwind

So because YOU don't like it ... you want 100s of 1000s of other players to get nerfed..

HAHAHAHAHA ... yea not happening. But nice try.

Yes I do want everyone to be nerfed. It's not going to kill them, it would just ease up the pace of the game. Is there a problem with that?

Oh the irony! Could say the same thing the other way around.

Other people sprinting in the game isn´t going to kill you either.

In other words. Let everyone play how they want to play. If people want to use sprint all the time in areas where there are lots of mobs and risk entering combat without TP. It´s their choice.

/end thread.

It can be said the same the other way around, sure. So? You can do that with a lot of things. It doesn't de-value the point in any way, as it's true.

twrule

Originally posted by Sephiroso

You're all saying its justified because casters are generally rooted in battle. But why would you be sprinting while already in battle?

I played Arcanist 1-20, THM 1-20, Conjurer 1-20, i used sprint in battle once....to run away cause i took on one of those higher lvl mobs near entrance at lvl 3 on accident due to tab target mistake. Everytime i was handheld with the "IM GOING TO ATTACK YOU HERE, DON'T STAND IN THIS SPOT" mechanic, i merely strafed out. It's stupid to think sprint is necessary to get out of the way of attacks for casters.

The main reason people use sprint is to get around in non-combat situations while doing quests or just exploring, not to use it in combat.

Erm, if anything this argument just undermines your own position. We were saying that it's not unfair in battle for a caster to have sprint because it affords them only a minor (and helpful to compensate for their other mechanics) advantage, whereas sprinting without the tp cost would give a substantially larger battle advantage to melee.

So should I take you as saying that it's unfair because melee can't get the full sprint after combat without waiting a sec for their TP to jump back to 1k? That seems like an awfully trivial thing to be annoyed with, esp. considering from 20ish on everyone's going to be using mounts and that use for sprinting will be all but obsolete...

Btw, melee suffer no disadvantage at all while just exploring, if exploring doesn't include combat.

Shoko_Lied

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

So, I guess with this thread, I can take it as good news?

Is the game really in that great a state right before launch that the best complaints we can come up with is that sprint has a 75% up time?

I have a lot of complaints, but I only felt like pointing out a minor one. Either way I'm going to be playing and enjoying the game.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

So, I guess with this thread, I can take it as good news?

Is the game really in that great a state right before launch that the best complaints we can come up with is that sprint has a 75% up time?

you have been skipping alot of the ffxiv bashing threads apparently

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

.You're all saying its justified because casters are generally rooted in battle. But why would you be sprinting while already in battle? I not talking about the specialized times either where a person is kiting because lts be honest, why would a caster be kiting, it'd be an archer.

 To get away from shit? I don't understand the question I guess, why wouldn't a person sprint in battle to move out of a hazardous situation if he had an option? Kiting has never been solely the domain of archers either, I'm not sure where you came up with that.

I played Arcanist 1-20, THM 1-20, Conjurer 1-20, i used sprint in battle once....to run away cause i took on one of those higher lvl mobs near entrance at lvl 3 on accident due to tab target mistake. Everytime i was handheld with the "IM GOING TO ATTACK YOU HERE, DON'T STAND IN THIS SPOT" mechanic, i merely strafed out. It's stupid to think sprint is necessary to get out of the way of attacks for casters.

If you didn't utilize it that's your problem, not mine.  I just think that makes you a bad player, it doesn't justify the position your trying to defend.   Necessary?  No, it's just a tool at this point, like most skills and spells.  it'll come in handy a lot, plus you've seen liked 1% of the game, who knows whether or not they'll put in  mechanics that require the use of sprint to evade... I would.

The main reason people use sprint is to get around in non-combat situations while doing quests or just exploring, not to use it in combat.

Apparently not in this game, otherwise it wouldn't cost TP. Most people use mounts for what your describing.

 

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

.You're all saying its justified because casters are generally rooted in battle. But why would you be sprinting while already in battle? I not talking about the specialized times either where a person is kiting because lts be honest, why would a caster be kiting, it'd be an archer.

 To get away from shit? I don't understand the question I guess, why wouldn't a person sprint in battle to move out of a hazardous situation if he had an option? Kiting has never been solely the domain of archers either, I'm not sure where you came up with that.

I played Arcanist 1-20, THM 1-20, Conjurer 1-20, i used sprint in battle once....to run away cause i took on one of those higher lvl mobs near entrance at lvl 3 on accident due to tab target mistake. Everytime i was handheld with the "IM GOING TO ATTACK YOU HERE, DON'T STAND IN THIS SPOT" mechanic, i merely strafed out. It's stupid to think sprint is necessary to get out of the way of attacks for casters.

If you didn't utilize it that's your problem, not mine.  I just think that makes you a bad player, it doesn't justify the position your trying to defend.   Necessary?  No, it's just a tool at this point, like most skills and spells.  it'll come in handy a lot, plus you've seen liked 1% of the game, who knows whether or not they'll put in  mechanics that require the use of sprint to evade... I would.

The main reason people use sprint is to get around in non-combat situations while doing quests or just exploring, not to use it in combat.

Apparently not in this game, otherwise it wouldn't cost TP. Most people use mounts for what your describing.

 

I never said kiting was the sole domains of an archer...but in this game, (in a group setting, i guess granted if you had an archer in party also) the kiter would be an archer...if you say otherwise you don't understand how combat in this game goes down and i'll ignore your further comments. NOT that a caster would even be kiting in a group setting in the first place since all mobs would be on tank anyway.

 

I'm a bad player for moving 2 steps to the left and continue casting when i see the mobs DO NOT STAND HERE red target on the ground? I'm a bad player for not using sprint to run away from an immensely slow attack that takes a good 3 seconds almost before it goes off? Yea ok.

 

How does your last point make any sense? "Sprint isn't used to get around mostly for non-combat situations while doing quests and things because it uses TP" herp derp. What kind of sense does that make? Most people will not use mounts to go from mob to mob when a mob is just 15-20 yards away. i explained this in my post....

Sephiroso

Originally posted by twrule

Originally posted by Sephiroso

You're all saying its justified because casters are generally rooted in battle. But why would you be sprinting while already in battle?

I played Arcanist 1-20, THM 1-20, Conjurer 1-20, i used sprint in battle once....to run away cause i took on one of those higher lvl mobs near entrance at lvl 3 on accident due to tab target mistake. Everytime i was handheld with the "IM GOING TO ATTACK YOU HERE, DON'T STAND IN THIS SPOT" mechanic, i merely strafed out. It's stupid to think sprint is necessary to get out of the way of attacks for casters.

The main reason people use sprint is to get around in non-combat situations while doing quests or just exploring, not to use it in combat.

Erm, if anything this argument just undermines your own position. We were saying that it's not unfair in battle for a caster to have sprint because it affords them only a minor (and helpful to compensate for their other mechanics) advantage, whereas sprinting without the tp cost would give a substantially larger battle advantage to melee.

So should I take you as saying that it's unfair because melee can't get the full sprint after combat without waiting a sec for their TP to jump back to 1k? That seems like an awfully trivial thing to be annoyed with, esp. considering from 20ish on everyone's going to be using mounts and that use for sprinting will be all but obsolete...

Btw, melee suffer no disadvantage at all while just exploring, if exploring doesn't include combat.

How often does exploring include no combat in a game where past the initial tutorial zones 80% mobs are aggressive?

 

Also the time it takes tp to regen 0 to full is about the same for mp to regen 0 to full from what i've observed. Casters do not need sprint in combat because there is no disadvantage casters have in combat due to being rooted. Seriously, there isn't. You don't see casters crying for sprint in WoW because they're rooted while casting. They simply get the fuck out the way when something is about to slam where they're standing and get back to killing. Just the same as melee.

 

Sprinting without the tp cost for melee gives them no battle advantage over how casters can currently sprint without mana cost. Also i gave 2 purposed fixes.

 

1. make sprint a general skill that just has a somewhat longer cooldown(think 1-3 mins) or

2. make sprint cost an appropriate amount of mana just like tp(if you don't want it taking all mana, then dont make it take all tp, something like 10% or 20% or 50% what have you).

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

I never said kiting was the sole domains of an archer...but in this game, (in a group setting, i guess granted if you had an archer in party also) the kiter would be an archer...if you say otherwise you don't understand how combat in this game goes down and i'll ignore your further comments. NOT that a caster would even be kiting in a group setting in the first place since all mobs would be on tank anyway.

So an archer is better at kiting?  Ok.  How does that in any way matter to your argument? In 99% of MMOs the mobs are suppose to be on the tank, but that's not always how shit works is it?

I'm a bad player for moving 2 steps to the left and continue casting when i see the mobs DO NOT STAND HERE red target on the ground? I'm a bad player for not using sprint to run away from an immensely slow attack that takes a good 3 seconds almost before it goes off? Yea ok.

 You're a bad player for not utilizing a tool in your toolbox. The faster your out of the red circle, the faster your back to doing DPS or healing. That this needs explanation says a lot about the quality of player I'm dealing with. There is also just general repositioning based on boss or fight mechanics.  A melee character steps through a mob, range characters tend to have to run large circles around them

How does your last point make any sense? "Sprint isn't used to get around mostly for non-combat situations while doing quests and things because it uses TP" herp derp. What kind of sense does that make? Most people will not use mounts to go from mob to mob when a mob is just 15-20 yards away. i explained this in my post....

Really? It uses a combat resource for a reason, and it's usable in combat for a reason.  The reason is because IT HAS A COMBAT FUNCTION.  You are bringing in you preconceptions from other games of how sprint should behave and it's making you blind to how it's used in this game.

 

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

I never said kiting was the sole domains of an archer...but in this game, (in a group setting, i guess granted if you had an archer in party also) the kiter would be an archer...if you say otherwise you don't understand how combat in this game goes down and i'll ignore your further comments. NOT that a caster would even be kiting in a group setting in the first place since all mobs would be on tank anyway.

So an archer is better at kiting?  Ok.  How does that in any way matter to your argument? In 99% of MMOs the mobs are suppose to be on the tank, but that's not always how shit works is it?

I'm a bad player for moving 2 steps to the left and continue casting when i see the mobs DO NOT STAND HERE red target on the ground? I'm a bad player for not using sprint to run away from an immensely slow attack that takes a good 3 seconds almost before it goes off? Yea ok.

 You're a bad player for not utilizing a tool in your toolbox. The faster your out of the red circle, the faster your back to doing DPS or healing. That this needs explanation says a lot about the quality of player I'm dealing with.

How does your last point make any sense? "Sprint isn't used to get around mostly for non-combat situations while doing quests and things because it uses TP" herp derp. What kind of sense does that make? Most people will not use mounts to go from mob to mob when a mob is just 15-20 yards away. i explained this in my post....

Really? It uses a combat resource for a reason, and it's usable in combat for a reason.  The reason is because IT HAS A COMBAT.  You are bringing in you preconceptions from other games of how sprint should behave and it's making you blind to how it's used in this game.

 

You claim its not the way how shit always works...well yea you're right in bad groups. So in the sake of your argument, yea you're right...for shit groups.

 

I'm a bad player for not utilizing a tool that i don't need to use? Yea okay. Enjoy the .12 miliseconds you get out of the red circle faster than me. Although really, i'll still be getting out faster than you most likely since reaction time would matter more than you sprinting out than me strafing out and im willing to bet i have a higher reaction time than you.

 

the reason is because it has a combat. lol sentence of the day, you made me laugh out loud, don't do that, its 4am i dont want to wake the neighbors.

wrightstuf

wow, i realize that people will complain about anything, but this is really reaching, lol

Sephiroso

Originally posted by wrightstuf
wow, i realize that people will complain about anything, but this is really reaching, lol

least he's not bashing the game, and when you really open your mind to the topic/issue, it is actually a legit issue. not a major turn off maybe, but its still an issue(more so because its unfair to melee that it saps all their tp in the first place while casters dont even use tp)

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

You claim its not the way how shit always works...well yea you're right in bad groups. So in the sake of your argument, yea you're right...for shit groups.

 Yep, you were wrong, I was right.  This is a common theme.

I'm a bad player for not utilizing a tool that i don't need to use? Yea okay. Enjoy the .12 miliseconds you get out of the red circle faster than me. Although really, i'll still be getting out faster than you most likely since reaction time would matter more than you sprinting out than me strafing out and im willing to bet i have a higher reaction time than you.

 Yes, you are a bad player. It's not about "need", its about using everything you have to perform better.  The reaction time quip is hilarious btw, It's like an admittance of being completely wrong and now your just trying to get in any little barb you can

the reason is because it has a combat. lol sentence of the day, you made me laugh out loud, don't do that, its 4am i dont want to wake the neighbors.

Tablets and this forum are not made for each other,  but since you couldn't deduce that obvious meaning... I've edited the original post.  Of course, you'll have no arguments to combat the argument regardless since its pretty cut and dry how the skill is designed to function. 

 

 

EndoRoboto

I actually completely agree with you Denshing. The sprint mechanic is on too short of a cooldown.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

You claim its not the way how shit always works...well yea you're right in bad groups. So in the sake of your argument, yea you're right...for shit groups.

 Yep, you were wrong, I was right.  This is a common theme.

I'm a bad player for not utilizing a tool that i don't need to use? Yea okay. Enjoy the .12 miliseconds you get out of the red circle faster than me. Although really, i'll still be getting out faster than you most likely since reaction time would matter more than you sprinting out than me strafing out and im willing to bet i have a higher reaction time than you.

 Yes, you are a bad player. It's not about "need", its about using everything you have to perform better.  The reaction time quip is hilarious btw, It's like an admittance of being completely wrong and now your just trying to get in any little barb you can

the reason is because it has a combat. lol sentence of the day, you made me laugh out loud, don't do that, its 4am i dont want to wake the neighbors.

Tablets and this forum are not made for each other,  but since you couldn't deduce that obvious meaning... I've edited the original post.  Of course, you'll have no arguments to combat the argument regardless since its pretty cut and dry how the skill is designed to function. 

 

 

Yea, you're right when you are a baddie and you play with baddies.

 

Using a tool even when you have no need for using it does not make you a good player, that defines a bad player. Using things when you don't or shouldn't use them.

 

You never edited the post yet, you made me go back and look to see what you meant and made me laugh out loud again. I think you did that on purpose...i think i hear voices, oh shit. lmfao

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Yea, you're right when you are a baddie and you play with baddies.

This is your argument?  Really?  How old are you?

Using a tool even when you have no need for using it does not make you a good player, that defines a bad player. Using things when you don't or shouldn't use them.

 This is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on an MMO forum.  No seriously it is.

You never edited the post yet, you made me go back and look to see what you meant and made me laugh out loud again. I think you did that on purpose...i think i hear voices, oh shit. llmfao

Um, yeah I did.  It even has a time stamp on the edit that's well before your post.

 

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Yea, you're right when you are a baddie and you play with baddies.

This is your argument?  Really?  How old are you?

Using a tool even when you have no need for using it does not make you a good player, that defines a bad player. Using things when you don't or shouldn't use them.

 This is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on an MMO forum.  No seriously it is.

You never edited the post yet, you made me go back and look to see what you meant and made me laugh out loud again. I think you did that on purpose...i think i hear voices, oh shit. llmfao

Um, yeah I did.  It even has a time stamp on the edit that's well before your post.

 

Yup this is my argument. Really. 24.

 

You obviously don't read your own comments then do you. Seriously, read your own comments.

 

You didn't edit the post at the time that i posted, cause it still sad "it has a combat" and made me rofl all over again.

 

Oh wait, damn because you're one of those people who write their response INSIDE the quote box i thought i went back to your 'original' post but it was actually the post that i quoted you that i was reading. I guess you did edit it.

Chrisbox

Originally posted by sisco1986
and then you engage 2 mobs with 0 tp and you have to run like a retard for 40 secs to get away

Lol this, unless your a conjurer.  

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by sisco1986
and then you engage 2 mobs with 0 tp and you have to run like a retard for 40 secs to get away

Lol this, unless your a disciple of magic.  

Fixed for you in red

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Yup this is my argument. Really. 24.

All hope lost in the human race 

You obviously don't read your own comments then do you. Seriously, read your own comments.

 You really think that utilizing tools that increase performance because you don't "need to" makes a person a bad player.  So do you just auto attack mobs?

You didn't edit the post at the time that i posted, cause it still sad "it has a combat" and made me rofl all over again.

 

Post was edited at 01:06, your post was at 01:16.  This is clearly documented by the sites time stamping

im done replying to you, I'm convinced your just trolling because nobody could possibly be this stupid

 

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Yup this is my argument. Really. 24.

All hope lost in the human race 

You obviously don't read your own comments then do you. Seriously, read your own comments.

 You really think that utilizing tools that increase performance because you don't "need to" makes a person a bad player.  So do you just auto attack mobs?

You didn't edit the post at the time that i posted, cause it still sad "it has a combat" and made me rofl all over again.

 

Post was edited at 01:06, your post was at 01:16.  This is clearly documented by the sites stamping log.  

 

Re-read my post, i edited it.(see we both made the same mistake )

rojoArcueid

The current state of Sprint is fine. But If they ever change it then the only way to make it better is the way Age of Conan did it. Active sprinting with stamina draining that gets you exhausted.

Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Yup this is my argument. Really. 24.

All hope lost in the human race 

You obviously don't read your own comments then do you. Seriously, read your own comments.

 You really think that utilizing tools that increase performance because you don't "need to" makes a person a bad player.  So do you just auto attack mobs?

You didn't edit the post at the time that i posted, cause it still sad "it has a combat" and made me rofl all over again.

 

Post was edited at 01:06, your post was at 01:16.  This is clearly documented by the sites stamping log.  

 

Re-read my post, i edited it.(see we both made the same mistake )

Um, no we didn't.  But trying to explain to you the difference would be like trying to explain multi-variable calculus to my dog.  So good night.

Machkeznho

to be fair I also feel as if sprint should be more of an o-poop button as apposed to a means of travel, perhaps in late game using it will have more of a direct negative impact with tp drain/recovery?