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FFARR from Polished? Seeking answers from FFARR players
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Foreword: Firstly I'd like to say that you articulated this review quite well. Hopefully response will be as equally respectful despite being somewhat against some of what you say. When writing long posts, it's easy to forget oneself and I oft drift off and ramble and even become hypocritical in my assumptions. There are also paragraphs whereby I say I do not agree at the core of the matter, but show examples similar to your own to show that I know where you're coming from when saying such.
Prologue: There are a lot of great replies here, as well as a well articulated article. I'm conflicted in my belief that peer reviews that are done in a professional manner should be trusted to an extent, and therefore ignored my instinct in telling myself to stop reading once I read the limited experience the writer had with the game he/she was to compare with one she obviously has had a hand in. This is further exasperated by the somewhat bias title of the review. Though the problem I see after a few minutes of contemplation and evaluation of my own initial thoughts is that the review itself offers no citations or links to many of the claims made; in no way am I able to see if the information acquired is through an unbias means or professional critique. In addition, the topics mentioned seemed to be highly based on personal preference which, again, is tampered with playing one game for potentially thousands of hours and the other for a few hours during a beta process.
To eliminate redundant responses (to an extent), I will simply cut to the chase and reply where I see problems of potential conflicts of interest, personal opinions or issues whereby bias or lack of understanding the scene may occur (due to limited exposure of the aforementioned FFXIV). In addition, I will not break down what is your personal opinion (all of the WoW text) as that is based on personal experience.
Note: I pretty much slam both games, though I will note that I am a fan of both.
Non-grindy:
World of Warcraft: This portion spoke of experience based on experiences upwards towards max level and even the reputation grind thereof to even unlock any type of epic item within the system (minus the low chance of the LFR at start). It specifically mentions "I had fun with it", while mentioning that it does in fact have a lot of grind. It ignores that Blizzard itself has said that dailies were one of the main regrets they have for this expansion, and that they would go back and redo it over again if they had the chance. While similar to admitting this may be a problem, only quotes from articles or Square Enix themselves could be used against them when reviewing FFXIV's content and therefore and unfair and bias approach had to be made due to lack of experience. Simply mentioning and or making quotes from articles and from Blizzard itself would've helped alleviate the claim of a bias nature, and yet this section was met with "I's" and saying that the writer had fun doing them, while making an absolute judgment on FFXIV by saying "People do not like to do them" with regards to a system therein.
Final Fantasy:
FATEs camping. Oh yes, I have heard the notorious behavior and it is not fun Yoshida. In the recent interview on MMORPG.com he stated "for now, they are allowing players to have fun with it and that they are confident the issue will solve itself as the game matures."
Simply rereading both WoW's and FFXIV's paragraphs for this should resound alarms in many people's minds. Though quoting without context or experience is a dangerous subject, especially when personal experience is used when comparing two things. I would say having opinions in great, but this isn't even an opinion. This is taking something and twisting it to the most negative side possible, while doing the opposite of the aforementioned contender. Gathering 8 players to work together for efficiency isn't bad, and is very much in line of how FFXI worked what with acquiring six people to find a spot and grind monsters for the most efficient (and chained experience, which gave boosts to experience gain) experience possible. If it becomes a problem, they say that they will fix it. Quite honestly, I'm thinking that this perception comes from someone who has not played either game to adequate degrees (obviously as it was admitted) and hasn't acquired a max level character to see what can be done to work on other classes. Many things can be, in fact (the hunting log is much more efficient early to mid game if you are an explorer and know the surroundings; the main quest storyline is also keeps up to your level as opposed to just saying "level 5 more times to unlock this). You even get a 50% boost to experience if you're leveling a lower class to help things along, as the main questline is done (until the patch) to help move things along (continued in next response
).
This has been the most niave and/or lazy response I have heard uttered by a game director ever.I am sure they are out there (Oh wait..Jennifer Hepler) but this is inexcusable.
Is it the most niave and/or lazy response you have heard uttered by a game director ever? Or perhaps you are listening to what you want to hear, based on information you heard others say, that they may or may not have gotten from some random guy in the internet. Odd thing is, that's how the internet works. If you don't have the experience to extrapolate information properly (people on the internet and not you personally), then that's how rumors start and how one person says something, the other beliefs and relays, etc. This is why there are trained historians who know how to conduct proper research, or at least set the same standards when comparing two (not one out of personal experience and the other out of what someone else says).
Is it the best possible answer? Hard pressed to say that any answer is the best one. Is it the wrong one for someone who didn't want to say it? Sure. Though I ask if they have the experience with it, or are simply quoting another and then forming an opinion? I'm just fine with the answer; they are aware of it, they made ample changes during beta whereby you cannot gain experience if you aren't in the area it starts, and they will watch / look into it again if needed. MMORPGs are complex, and Ghostcrawler himself makes the same assertions in his Tweets and posts. It's just hard to see them when you're such a big fan of a game.
People are not having fun doing them.
This really made me sad face.
Though for the sake of knowing my stance, there are many, many people who enjoy FATES. Especially the high level FATES; you see shouts in the city saying that one spawned (and they're quite powerful, so they need the extra firepower).
They are doing them because they feel they have to because others are doing them and they want to keep their edge and not fall behind.
This also made me sadface as people will feel the need to do whatever whenever so long as they feel there's a slight advantage. This is inherent in most things. The path of least resistance. It is more so a human nature problem than anything. If there's no excuse for it for one game, there's not excuse for it for any. So if one is if that thought, more power to them. Though speaking of reality, being able to focus on everything will get nothing done. It will take resources away to what many may not even view as a problem. I am a Ghostcrawler fan in how he deals with people with complaints and he just lay things out flat. The same applies to here as development and resources are not infinite, especially when something else will pop up as "the next most efficient" two hours after the patch.
Do you have to do them? No. Should you defend Yoshida's decision based on this irrelevant question? No! That's madness!
Is it madness? I went into depth regarding this in the above paragraph. Though more power to the people who want perfect everything; they pay monthly, they should get it. Sadly the reality of the matter is the opposite. Are there a few problems I don't like about the game? Yes. Do I think they should change it just for me and those who agree with me? No. If they have the time to, maybe. For instance, I hate hate HATE the inability to mail my own characters and send my alts (my non 1.0 characters) gear since I wanted to start anew. Basically out millions of gil because of it and I think it's an amateur move that shouldn't be in an AAA game. Indeed, the reason they gave for such being "they want to put the hurt on RMT" or some such nonsense when there is still trading and mailing in the game with other people on other accounts. RMT could just steal another account and make the transfers, while legit customers are kicked in the teeth.
Anti-Exploitative measures:
WoW: This one we disagree on to great degrees. In fact, someone could very easily purchase the game, make a second account (for $5 no less as people stock up when sales come), link them and enjoy 350% increase with quests, dungeons and fighting (350% with heirlooms and guild increases). I've managed to get some 10 80s in just a week by doing this, in addition to having heirlooms up to 85 (in 5.4 to 90 with the weapons). People have also been able to transfer to get advantages in world first. While Blizzard did what it could to combat that, the ultimate offender remains being able to purchase 300% experience boosts. Perchance people think they need that to keep up with as well? It works both ways. Not to mention the rumors of the 100% increase via the store purchase in the public test realms.
FFXIV:
The FATEs camping is exploitative as surely everyone can agree that any sane game designer would never intend for you to experience their game in such a manner.
Group boosts, chains and trains exist and many enjoy taking part of them. Though this is just beating a dead horse, in my opinion, as we already went into this in the above. Though the wording "sane developer" again quirks my eyebrow in just how much of this is experience and not reading what other people believe and just going with it because it isn't World of Warcraft.
AFK camping is exploiting the fact you won't get kicked and you won't have to suffer the login issues others are having and in doing so inflames those issues. It could be forgiven if change was on the horizon but any such hope is lost with these words:"The team is willing to look into an AFK kick or queue system, but as of this moment, they are devoting 100% of their efforts towards getting the aforementioned additional servers and server changes implemented this week." It doesn't take much though to realize the backwards method they are using. An AFK kick system should have been featured on day 1. It is an MMORPG standard and to neglect it is madness.
FFXI didn't have an AFK timer whereby it kicked you. This is mainly because you could set up a Bazaar and sell stuff while your character was still in the world. This also existed in 1.0 and people had player merchants and in a later patch, retainer merchants. It may be a cultural thing in that Japanese players expect not to be kicked off. Perhaps it could've alleviated the problems, perhaps not. Though we should not assume we know everything about every situation. The retort could be made that releasing in the west should mean acclimating to western policies. This is true in a business sense, though we must also consider that we are not region locked and many players still play on mixed legacy servers. Square doesn't have a secondary publisher to handle westernization. Though that still may not be enough for some, and that's perfectly okay. There seems to be little to no queue now, even with no AFK timer, so it seems to me they had the right of it if they were transparent putting their entire network team on fixing the concurrency rate and the queue system (in the mindset of a foreign company, which I cannot comprehend and thus must defer to people far more intelligent or knowledgeable than I). Personally I think they should put it in, if only to save on stressing their servers and bandwidth.
Note on Sidequests: I've read somewhere in your post that you think the sidequests seem to disconnect from the main story. Though in actuality, this could not be further from the truth as someone who completed the main story. In fact, most side quests don't even unlock until you unlock a certain part of the story. They all will be in the same area and regarding the current mystery you're solving or the quest you are doing, have done or will do. They mention disappearances you just have to be investigation, and the dialog of the people (traditional NPC dialog) also adhere to these policies.
What you may have experienced in your light game play session are just random people wanting help at the beginning, or random people in an outposts. These only constitute maybe 5-10% of the total sidequests, as most of them are progression based.
Innovative Concepts:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7005-Innovation-Gamings-Snake-Oil
You offer very minor things and call WoW innovative. I could offer more minor things in FFXIV. Though I do not call that innovative.
FFXIV:
Free Company Primal Summoning: The ability to fight primals in the world, be given an epic Free Company quest, and be able to summon said Primal ONCE whenever they choose (whether it's in a raid or PvP). That primal is then locked from the rest of the server from acquiring until it is used, then it roams again. When summoned, the weather is said to be changed all around the world.
Weather: It's hard to say that anything weather is innovative. But the immersion in how they bring it is amazing. The lightning storms, for instance, are without equal. You see the lightning strike down to the ground, hear the loud strike, and behold two flashes with the boom. Though it isn't throughout the area. You can see it in the distance, and watch as that area flashes twice, not touching where you were.
Cutscenes: Again, the name "cutscenes" shows nothing new. But the way the game introduces it is, as one would realize by the time they join a Grand Company. It's very much a JRPG, and not just people standing still talking all the time. In fact, it was made so that people who just wanted to play a Final Fantasy game could get that experience, even if they don't want to subscribe after buying the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RshwAHDLsvA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXOGmukdraUxWFedldHlrEA
4:17 - 17:17
24:10 - 31:13
Dialog: The game is not afraid to have text after text of backstory and lore, versus the one paragraph we see in game such as WoW and others. The way in which text is wrought is also unique, taking from games like Final Fantasy and putting it into an MMO. No longer do you have to just look at single quest box with all it's contents squeezed in. Instead, there are single player text bubbles over and over again, with immersive writing and personality with each character you see.
Combo Attacks: Using a skill leads into other skills for double damage, mana restore, TP restore or buffs / group buffs. While combo attacks (and field combos) are nothing new, the way they handle them seem unique.
Limit Breaks: Group dynamics and working together to get limit break, and not having someone who instantly wastes it as it's a group thing and powerful attack / heal / defense. Three levels of it, depending on if you're in a group, you're in a group with a boss, or you're in a group of eight with a boss.
Area dedicated to mini games: Gold Saucer is said to make an appearance in future patches, with the developers being given the instructions to have at least three mini games within them. While GW2 had promised this, they went back on this as well as their promises for Housing.
Requiring Group Content for Storyline: By the time the level 15 quest is complete (linked above), you are sent into three back to back dungeons in which you need a group to progress the storyline. This occurs quite often, and there is probably a 30/70% split in requiring a group and being able to solo the main quest respectfully. This does not include end game.
Unforgiving Nature: With some classes, making even one mistake in a class quest or FATE is instant KO. One might even be able to station themselves next to Arcanist quests 20+ and just resurrect the people who fail it (which was a 9 in 10 ratio the first couple days of playing the game whenever I stayed there to help new players).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QzVZjMWT2Ew
Main storyline: The Main story stays with your level and does not require getting "5+" levels as did SWTOR and GW2 and once could level their first class just by doing it and the related sidequests that unlock when you complete quests.
6:32 PM PST Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fA2tlDNnrw
At 54:10 It shows a great example of how the game leads into battle much like a JRPG would. There is a cutscene, personal talk as people enjoy a beverage, then suddenly every clears the area as the tavern gets broken in with archers surrounding you. Then there's some snark comment from the anti-hero (your companion at the time), and the whole JRPG "Warp" into the actual battle. This is handled in a great way and is unique in of itself, at least to me, when it comes to the MMORPG space. Though it's also important to note that the quest shown there is only a level 10 quest or so. So the player had limited skills to use and it was more so a tutorial on target of my target and handling adds (which I found odd since it's a tank quest, but I guess it's showing you how it's like to your DPS party members).
Lighting: The lighting is absolutely gorgeous. From the sun, to simple lanterns. They actually light the entire area they cover. If there is an obstruction, it is recognized.
Hunting Log: While a hunting log may be in other games, the implementation here really helps with leveling and is great fun. You get massive boosts with each creature you mark in your book, there are combos, different tiers, exploration and each class has their own hunting list. There is even a Grand Company Hunting listen, which is gated community in Grand Company Ranks.
Grand Company Ranks: Able to progress as an officer in the Grand Company through attunement quests, gated content, Grand Company levels, primal fights, transportation systems, etc. (limited number of bringing resources to GC NPCs around the world for the whole server).
NPC Recognition: When walking next to, say a chocobo standing up... It actually reacts to you. It may flap it's wings, or simply watch you with it's head, tilting it around. The same with most NPCs.
Sleeping in beds: Able to log out and have animations for climbing into bed, climbing out all groggy when logged in. There is the ocassional "dream" you have as well. In 1.0 there were actually cutscene dreams that are expected to return.
Hand in quests: Physically handing it the quest for an immersion factor. It's not even relevant to mention, but then again, in my opinion, the options spoken for WoW aren't either (despite my enjoying WoW clear up to 5.2).
Community and resurrection: Not a great example as it's more about the community than the game (unless one believes that a game forms the community), the community has been nice of the server's I've been on, answering questions (depending on the time of day) and asking / giving resurrections much like FFXI. Though a good community is almost always worth mentioning.
Music changing when mounting: Nice little touch. Again, nothing special.
War / Passive Mode: When you are in war or passive mode, the system config icons switch between a down trodden sword and a sword that is upright. Again simple, but an interface thing, as was mentioned with WoW.
I could go on and on with minor things.
Epilogue:
You ended this review with the hopes the reader may understand what type of game you like. As one WoW player to the next, I'd say just play FFXIV from 1-50 as it really does seem worth the ride. The box is cheap, the servers are pretty much stable now and the game is solid.
The thing to take from it is that it is a JRPG first and a MMORPG second. But it does recognize it's a MMORPG and the social ramifications involved (especially the immersion factor and the little things they do right). While many say this about other games, it really captures the time frame of Vanilla and TBC in that you really have to work for what you get. It stops holding your hand at around level 20 (though the main story is always linear) and you could very easily miss or never know about systems (as they don't flat out tell you about them.
Many still don't know how to get their chocobo or chocobo combat, as it's one of those ask the community or find out types of things. The dungeons can wipe you with a single mistake, and pugs wipe repeatedly. There are a lot of attunement like quests (gated content), in fact the majority of the systems are gated just as the side quests are. The hunting logs, Grand Company Logs, etc. provide reward for exploration and hunting animals (massive Experience boosts... I used to do fates 12-15 on my alternate classes until I realized that hunting logs are so much more efficient when you have them and know your surroundings well). If you're a fan of JRPGs and still like Themeparks, FFXIV is one of the best options available at this time (at least until the next WoW expansion or if 5.4 is awesome). My opinion is that it's much better than WoW, but that might just be because I've been playing WoW since it's Open beta way back.
The launch trailer of the game pretty much sums it up quite well for me:
It is botting to an extent of having to use highly complex macros to control every character simultaneously. At it's core it is multi-boxing but it goes beyond that with the use of outside software:
Not possible with botting software that replicates commands...alright..it doesn't automate commands to the extent farm botting does but it is not difficult to understand where I am coming from.
You're crappy attitude is unnecessary. I am not all that bothered about you calling me a 'he'...it's mostly your abrasive and awful personality that I find unbearable.
I'm reading every last post though I won't respond personally I am taking a lot to heart here. Especially after watching the above video it shows me that this game does indeed have opportunities to be epic. I think it'll be the rigidly defined zones that cause your face to make friends with a surprise invisible wall ala Wile E. Coyote style that will remain the off putting factor.
Thank you all for your encourgement, criticisms, corrections, and respect.
I really do feel like I am in some support group for WoW recovery I am just not sure (yet) that I need it. Anywyas..I have some posts (some amazingly long and well written) to finish reading.
@Yaevindusk
I'm halfway through your post but I have to be off to get some things finished. Before I go I fell the need to give a quick response.
Thank you. It is responses like these that allow me to give a nod to this quote “If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room.”Thank you for stretching my perception just that much more.
Some notes however, though this is in a review section this is not a review. I placed it here for aforementioned reasons. You take a lot of time judging it as a review when I earnestly tried to make it clear in the begining that these were indeed my opinions and to take them with a grain of salt.
Otherwise, you've given me some strong points to consider and thank you. I look forward to finishing the read soon!
I could definitely see it being read as a critique to a review as you say. My apologies if it was too strongly articulated in that fashion.
There's one thing I just experienced in the game with my alt that I really liked as well.
At 54:10 It shows a great example of how the game leads into battle much like a JRPG would. There is a cutscene, personal talk as people enjoy a beverage, then suddenly every clears the area as the tavern gets broken in with archers surrounding you. Then there's some snark comment from the anti-hero (your companion at the time), and the whole JRPG "Warp" into the actual battle. This is handled in a great way and is unique in of itself, at least to me, when it comes to the MMORPG space. Though it's also important to note that the quest shown there is only a level 10 quest or so. So the player had limited skills to use and it was more so a tutorial on target of my target and handling adds (which I found odd since it's a tank quest, but I guess it's showing you how it's like to your DPS party members).
Well that happen very rarerly ... but is better after patch. All this would not happen if autologoff would be implemented.
I'm pretty much more disturbed by zillion of invisible walls everywhere, the fact i will never be able to jump from some cliff into sea or river for sake of trying it, ....
The only thing that really rock in FF is environment (minus invisible walls) with often weather conditions and so. Yesterday really enjoyed a lot of thunders, ligtnings, ... in woods ... was incredible. Unfortunately this is only thing worth.
Btw I always loved FF, I have purchased 1.0 and ALSO ARR simply because I wanted to be ready day 1 (did not want to wait few days for download of client to complete) .... and, boy, what a disappointment. Ok, guess without all problems THEY have created (no autologoff & limited queue) would be less but still.
Good review, I thoroughly enjoy the fact that you highlighted both pros and cons in both games. And in a comparison piece tried to weigh them upon equal scales...Very appropriate, and without a heaping mound of bias. Well done....
Now that doesn't mean I agree fully or support your opinions or conclusions, but a very thorough and balanced way to come about them. You are a sensible person, congratulations for posting amoungst the rabidly insane.
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Out of curiosity why do people keep saying WoW was innovative with a semi-seamless world? Just curious as Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, and many others were already fully seamless worlds beforehand.
Is the innovation being that it wasn't fully seamless or something? I just don't see how that is either any better *or* an innovation.
EDIT: Also I've been playing FF:ARR since beta 3 and I agree with nearly every single point in the review. Definitely nailed it without a bias slant.
Also I think the FATE group grinding is much worse than you even described... but mainly for Square. I mean people are just powering through all the levels on multiple classes faster than anything... eventually they're going to have them all maxed with not much to do afterwards... and people will move on. And this isn't just a power gamer thing, it has caught on and any zone I'm in it seems as if the majority of players are just running around in FATE groups ignoring everything else.
SE is correct to not be concerned about FATE grind. There's *so* much to do beyond FATE grinding.
It's good for 2 things:
1) Levels
2) GC Points
Unfortunately, neither will get you the best gear and if you don't do the dungeons or philosopher collection - people are going to start noticing.
AO had some huge zones but it was definitely not seamless. I played that game to death (Yunni Solitus Adventurer, Angellis Opifex Shade, ~Society of Salvation~ RK1) and had such an easy time appreciating the wonderful community. I barely remember my time in AC and Shadowbane but you're making me feel old in senile. XDThanks for your firsthand insight on the FATEs.
OP, I read your review. I can say it was well thought out. But the problem with your review is that you cherry picked your points to review. You picked the best points to review against the worst points of ARR. It was obvious, your chose to compare the single method of leveling in ARR in a sea of options and used that against the entire game. The FATE grind is the most popular method of leveling in ARR and because you don't like it, you have blatantly ignored many other options such as dungeons, hests.....well, W/E we've been through this argument a dozen times already.
Sorry, but that was a very long post that was pointless.
High Quality Production: This is not about quality of design. The design functions very well as it was intended. The fact you don't like it doesn't make it low quality. It just means you don't like it. Because there are others who do.
Non Grindy: You cherry picked a single path of leveling to make your comparison totally ignoring other options.
Anti Exploitative gaming: This looks like a bogus header you threw in to give you another excuse to bitch about FATE grinds. You don't like them, but they are hardly an exploit. Power Leveling has been around in every MMO since the beginning. In most cases, they are not exploits. City of heroes, Side Kicking up and sitting at the entrance to maps while the big boys cleared. In Anarchy, getting on Heck Teams. SWG groups. THe list goes on. They weren't exploits. However, I recall back in TBC a particular WoW player who figured out how to power level using the dungeons. I forget exactly how he did it, but he did. I recall it involved a paladin and some tricky team swapping at the end of the fights to funnel 100% of the XP to a character who didn't even engage in combat. This was an unintended use and thus would be considered an exploit. So saying what you say, you have again, ignored fair comparisons between the 2 games.
Lore: Well, this is where were are entirely subjective, but your complaints about ARR can be said of WoW as well. Why did you all the sudden bring TSW into this? Doesn't WoW have enough impact on it's own? I feel the Lore in ARR is as good as anything else on the market. But that's just IMO.
Innovation: WoW is not known for it's innovation. And where it has innovated hasn't been entirely best for the community as a whole. But for ARR, this was supposed to be a comparison against WoW and you go and compare what you feel are ARRs shortcomings against other games other than WoW in order to put ARR in a bad light. You didn't do the same in your opinion of WoW. This is the 2nd time you did it and it negates your credibility.
Gaming Choices. Once again, you start comparing ARR to games other than WoW that you didn't compare WoW against in your "ARR vs WoW" comparison.
Look, it's fine to make a post and say "I've tried ARR but in the end I like WoW better"
But to come up with such a made up list of trumped up, cherry picked comparisons to do it....well, it looks bad.
I made it even more clear that my OP was not a review of the game. I thought I also made it clear why I picked the topics to weigh my opinions on.
Yes, I admit I threw in TSW out of nowhere. I do this sort of thing a lot. After playing as many MMORPGs as I have for as long as I have I find odd connections out of nowhere that just spontaneously manifest.
Even as I was grinding through hecklar sessions I felt that it was cheating but I had no fear of being banned. So,in that light I agree that I probably cast the FATEs grinding into a darker light than it deserved. Perhaps it's the claims of hordes of campers inside the cities waiting for the next FATEs pop that makes this behavior such an eyesore for me. If it were contained out in the wilderness I would not be belly-aching so much.
Since you're so open minded, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I address you as Retard from now on? Nothing personal, just under the circumstances, free speech and all that, I think you wouldn't mind?
On the topic note, I just activated my old WoW account to check where it is now, I'm yet to see any bots in BGs.
On the 2nd note, some people may easily make you wish there were bots instead of them. ^^
go back to yr 10 years old game then. ppl are sicking of playing the same game.
FF14 is a very good mmo by itself. Ppl play for tat. Comparing A and B is pointless.
It's not wrong to use them, but you didn't use them fairly. Call it a review, an opinion, It doesn't matter, the post was unevenly biased in the comparisons you decided to use.
I made a longer response that got ate by a miss-click so I'll just simply state: There are a lot of elements that FFXIV excels but these elements are not as important to me.
Allow me to clarify: This was a selfish post. Perhaps this thread will help someone in the same boat as I so that they can decide as well. Otherwise, this was an outreach to the FFARR players to state my case of what is important to me; how I see World of Warcraft in it's current state; how I perceive FFARR to be in its current state.
It does matter. If this was a review I would be right there with you raising up my cardboard sign with the scrawling 'WTF OP!?!'. It does matter.
your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004.
flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release
instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one
raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow
skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system
player mounts - ultima online
large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree
pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another
now for final fantasy arr
is anything in the game unique?
the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this.
everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.
my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time.
How anyone could play wow for 9 years is staggering.. 5 dungeons to repeat over and over and some raids(the whole idea behind it and execution is absolutely awful imo)... to be in the same walled off tiny zoned world, with characters that can barely maneuver around a walled off environment... shiver...
I tried FFXIV back at launch and was unimpressed. I may try the new version since I have it for free, but since they went towards wow instead of 11, I am not expecting much...
Seamless world? It is a world of walled off tiny zones where you could walk from one to another through tiny pathed areas.... Asheron's Call from 5+ years before had an entire zoneless world about 1000x the size of wow, in which you could go anywhere you'd like and jump anywhere/run anywhere, as long as your abilities are high enough.
Not having any problems with grindyness.. at the first playthrough you dont need to do ANYTHING but quests and will never have to grind... looking at how me and some guildmembers went you can almost lvl 2 classes to 50 without having to grind alot
and innovation.. you mean the flashy things that the worst mmo's use to attract people to their game? not a single game has had a USEFULL innovation since about the first mmo ever... its always useless addition that attracts people to their game which they then leave 1 month after because they notice how bad it is. I prefer a normal mmo based on solid gameplay instead of 500 useless additional features
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
The problem with this thread was the attempt to sell WOW against FFXIV.
Both are p2p games. If people were remotely interested in WOW here they would just go there.
Not everyone likes that game either. So I feel that the attempt to call the game not polished based off the opinion that WOW is better (which has nothing to do with polish btw) is a bit lost in the wind here. This isn't the f2p crowd here, there are not people who have been waiting 10 years for the game to go free so they can afford to play it. Just about everyone here has played wow at one point of time I imagine.
People are playing the game because its: New, Its FF, It looks great, it has some interesting mechanics, or because there is a buzz about the game. None of which WOW can offer.
You are preaching to the wrong crown mr OP man.
This thread belongs in the wow forums where it can make die hards feel a bit better about staying with wow.
Also....did you call wow grindy?
I think you wasted your time writing this with your pedantic tone, combatitive title, and ridiculous intro.
In short, you seem angry about FATEs, but are okay with everything else. I'm irritated I spent the time to read your drivel and am only bolstered by the fact I can block you.
Soooo. Let me get this straight... You played the game for 16 hours during open beta? And you're ready to make all these observations from that kinda play time? Most of the comments you make on "polish" have nothing to do with what is actually considered polish. Grindy? Since when does that have anything to do with polish? Engaging lore? Polish? This along with some other categories you list are pure opinion and personal preference.
You wanted to reach out to ARR players, so that is why I'm responding. I think that making a "sincere perspective" of a game with so little play time under your belt is straight up wrong. Especially when you chose to compare it directly to a game you have obviously played for long periods of time.
I mean really... think about it. 9 years of good times conjuring up images of late night raids, laughs on vent, good friends vs. a game you played for 16 hours with no one. Fair? Nope. Ridiculous? Yup.
Yeah, that does sound horrible and I couldn't imagine anyone playing that for 9 years.
Good thing that's nothing like WoW. Have you ever played WoW?
5 dungeons? Vanilla alone had 20 dungeons.
+16 from BC
+15 WotLK
+14 Cata
+9 MoP +13 scenarios (which hasn't reached the end and they usually add another 3-4 dungeons in the last major patch)
So, if by 5 dungeons, you meant 74 dungeons, then yes I agree. No I did not count raids or sceanrios as dungeons.
Walled off tiny zoned world? Where are the walls? Halfway in the middle of the ocean? Game world is pretty seamless save for travel to other continents.
Bad raid execution? WoW probably has the best raids on the market, it has 36 total atm (no LFR doesn't count - that's introductory content for non-raiders) Normal and Heroic modes are still excellent and the encounters are more complex than ever.
So yeah, what you described is totally not worth playing for 9 years. But it's not WoW.