Originally posted by Radzik: I'm hoping in this game its more like. "Check that guy out, he's got the new xxriffle and the xxbody armor...if we ambush him..."
Heh, that is tuly pos-apocaliptic. I kinda see it that way as well - but there needs to be ballance, in order for Radziks of the FE not to kill off all carebears....
Everyone should be suseptible to PvP but it needs to be - well,,,, I sound like a broken record - BALANCED
your no's had valid points but, somtimes when i play i dont really feal like PvPing. Sometimes i do but the ability for individuals to participate in PvP when they want to and be able to turn PvP off when they really dont have that urge would be a great benefit. by making the access point to PvP in a guild controlled building makes it where guilds are more than just a private chat room for buddies. the No about not allowing people to keep their most prized possession such as thier weapon and maybe their ammo bag may be going a little far and allowing others to greif someone. you have also made the asumption that weapons are going to be in plentifull, if they are i say go for it, but if not then you have made something fun into something very bad...
but i am always open for suggestions and criticizm.
i am sure that the Devs will find a happy medium for everyone. maybe even have wilderness areas where death penalties are worse, but the rewards much greater.
I really think the best way to do it is with PvP zones. Dont feel like PvPing, just head out to the non-pvp zone. Feel like PvPing, go to a very hostile area in a PvP zone.
One of the main rules I think all games should live by is RISK vs. REWARD. Too many games took this rule out to take care of the crybabies. Put something worthwhile in a PvP zone, and all the non-pvpers cry about not being fair and balanced. Its all Risk vs. Reward. You dont want to risk going into pvp lands, then you get no reward. Too many games are taking away from the risk, and adding to the reward.
The PvP zones should have much more powerful items to be found in compaired to the non pvp zones. Again, the golden rule, Risk vs. Reward.
ps. Nobody here sounds like one of these anti-pvp crybabies, which is a good thing. In a post apoc world, I just think raiding and stealing will be so popular, that nobody could just not be affected by it somehow. Dont want to get robbed, then stay clear of main roads, and stay near major cities.
___________________________ The Golden Rule. Risk vs. Reward
Originally posted by Cthulhuvong You could have a distance from civilization at which you become full PvP. Say going 2 or 3 klicks (that would be kilometers for those that don't know) from any maintained building gets a message sent to you saying "You are enering the wastes" which tells you that you are about to enter a free PvP zone. This would make far out places more lawless while allowing for people to stick around civilized places unharmed. This would also allow raids on people traveling between places more than 5 klicks apart from each other and would make small outposts along trade routes very valuable for multiple reasons.
QFE.
Having a distance from civilized areas means that at first only NPC areas will be non-PvP, but as people move out and expand so will the safe zones. In those zones you can still duel (both have to accept), but otherwise there is no PvP. Non-PvPers can't venture into the wastes, but can still go to all the places close to civilization. Theres less reward like Radzik said, but also less risk.
Also, maybe places can be attacked to cause areas to fall back into lawlessness. Wipe out an outpost along a trade route and all of a sudden anyone along the way can be raided.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Originally posted by Radzik One of the main rules I think all games should live by is RISK vs. REWARD. Too many games took this rule out to take care of the crybabies. Put something worthwhile in a PvP zone, and all the non-pvpers cry about not being fair and balanced. Its all Risk vs. Reward. You dont want to risk going into pvp lands, then you get no reward. Too many games are taking away from the risk, and adding to the reward. The PvP zones should have much more powerful items to be found in compaired to the non pvp zones. Again, the golden rule, Risk vs. Reward.
I both disagree and agree here. The problem is that this is not a balance of risk and reward, it is a complete polarisation. To have an area you can generate items or resources in without risk (i.e. a PvE only area) means that those people not willing to go out and risk pvp will simply PvE for the cash to buy those items they cannot get themselves. As long as there is a situation where money can be generated with zero risk, inflation and economic realism go out of the window (see every rpg except until recently EVE Online). And if one thing does not fit with a post apocalyptic setting it is the glut of resources zero-risk PvE causes.
Its more or less my opinion that the the only non-PvP zones present should be those in and directly (very directly) around the starting npc run towns. And that literally you can gain nothing or very close to nothing from them. The best way to make these non-PvP zone is to have the players hand in all weapons (automated, for a 'ticket') to npcs before entering the town, and of course have the town choc-a-bloc full of heavily armed npc guards that dissuade PvP for line of sight from the town - and maybe a few NPC guard outposts at critical junctions nearby.
Anyways, I totally agree with the risk vs reward mentality.
Yes to non consensual PvP
Yes to full loot drops
Yes to non-uber items (i.e. rare items that are rare for a reason, most kit is standard for a reason too)
No to item insurance
I should also add, that I am against arena and CTF combat, it totally ruins the immersion for me.
Basically I feel that in a post apocalyptic world, ppl should have to watch thier backs and tread carefully.
I completely agree with Thrak, the whole non risk factor has a huge impact on economy. The devs already sugegsted seperate servers, the only big drawback I can see from this is if it is truely a dynamic world then the game exprience should be able to change by the players. If this is the case then 2 seperate servers could potentially become vastly different game worlds. Which means potentially twice as much content to generate.
However maybe Icarus has something up their sleeve, maybe these toolsets that they're developing have something that will make this a bit smoother.
I've always said that a game that gives the players ultimate freedom in the end reduces the content that the devs have to put in, because players can make their own....
I was talking with my friend last night about FE and he said that one thing he wanted to see in a game like this was working police. He wanted some kind of force in towns that could stop fights if they occured.
Lets say Player A sees a noob just starting and wants to gank him. He takes a shot and wings the noob, and this alert nearby police (any within sight/hearing range). They run at him yelling stop with weapons drawn, and if he fires again, they take him dow hard. Maybe they could do subdual damage and just knock him out of he hasn't threatened a cop, or maybe they just kill him. If hes dead, his body is now free to loot.
And by full loot drops I'm assuming that you all mean everyone is able to loot from anyone's kill.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
As much as you would like to see Non Consentual PvP, the only way that it could be done is by having PvP servers. Since the devs have already stated that there will be no defined level or level max for toons it would be hard to set up a balanced PvP system with "zones". they still have to make money and their will always be carebears. Fortunalty/Unfortunatly (depending on your play style) there cash is as good as the PvPers so from an economical standpoint unconsentual PvP would be reducing total potental profits by as much as 60-70% since most hardcore PvPers are in the minority. The most probable solution would be to have PvE servers and PvP servers seperate except for maybe guild/clan wars or something of the sort. I think the game Guild Wars had a pretty good idea with their game by having a charicter in the PvE server unlocking skills and professions for the PvP server. It could possibly be modified to work for this game also, maybe not totaly like it but something along those lines.
As much as you would like to see Non Consentual PvP, the only way that it could be done is by having PvP servers.
I disagree, and I don't really see a reason other than 'some people don't like it'. As for what devs have said, I don't take any of that as set in stone during development (benefit of the doubt ).
If you make it single server, only non-consentual, the carebears don't have a choice but to play or not to. And I think in this universe they will play. Let me put it this way: I am hoping against all odds that this is not going to be a Post Apocalyptic flavoured Everquest clone. And without non-consensual pvp, a mmorpg in this setting can pretty much only aspire to be that. Any player towns, zoneless maps etc is just trimming on the same game dynamic.
My best case scenario is to have single server total PvP.
More likely (and still a good turnout) is multiple servers some PvE some PvP - and in that situation everyone loses out due to content issues as mentioned by someone else above.
Lets face it - player generated content and events is something that cannot be matched by developer input - and is fa superior with PvP. PvP is more than just fighting, it is the ebb and flow and control of resources, buildings and territory. Guild wars style ladder pvp is so disinteresting as to be irrelevant -to me at least. I would rather go play Call of Duty for 5 minutes.
Consensual PvP? No such thing. "Uhm.. Hullo there - could you please stand still while I shoot you?" Not going to work its silly.
Arenas/Separate Servers/Zones - Not a good idea, will ruin the immersion, and as many peeps pointed out, will create content problems.
100% PvP No holds barred kill-frag-fest: perhaps not either. Will ruin the game purpose "to rebuild earth.. blah,,, blah... blah". And will allow 12 year olds with too much time on their hands to grief others.
So? What do we have?
PvP should be allowed on the server - and it has to be single server. Those who wish not to engage should have an opportunity to have their protection within Enclaves, Cities, and Outposts etc.
Those who wish to engage in PvP should work for it. They have to actually spend allot of time seeking hostile encounter - unless they meet like-minded individual/s who are seeking the same.
Traders/Builders/Explorers Non-PvP personnel/Non Military Personal have to be a rare treat for a determined killer. After all, in post apocalyptic world those who are trying to hide will probably have better chances of not being seen then those who stomp about with their heavy gear and big guns.
Unless, you are a real determined killer who would stalk his prey over many kilometres and stay behind - or lay low in some ruined building just waiting to pop that unsuspecting traveller - you do not deserve to be called a bandit.
There can be no Gank-fests as there is so much of it in other games. Killing has to be done with determination, preparation and with some luck.
Uncertainty should be a huge factor. Because you should never know whom you might encounter. Unless, you have done your homework, and know 100% that so and so will be travelling there and then at that time.
The Carebears - and I know it will start a huge holler - should have the advantage of running away. Because they are, after all more equipped for hiding/peaceful co-existence. Killers should work to get their meat. No other way around it.
I think so many people are leaning toward the PVP because it is easy. [I am going by my EVE experience] - when it should be hard to kill someone with style and finesse. After a while its pretty sick to see so many people killing off everything that moves - w/o even getting thrill of the hunt or conquest!
Originally posted by Radzik Thrak, you give a really good argument against riskless pve zones.
I am hoping against all odds that this is not going to be a Post Apocalyptic flavoured Everquest clone.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Only thing I have to disagree with you about is arena fighting. Has Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome taught you nothing?
Ha! Well, you can always form a circle of friends and duke it out in the middle :P Bagsi the chainsaw. Duels to the death are cool, and if you decide to be dishonourable you should be able to cheat too
Its more the, rubber bullets & 'your clans ladder position is #3' & 'I would have r0xxor3d j00 1v1 in arena!!!11!' aspect of official arenas that annoys me
I think that Thrak and Derida have made some very good points here. One thing I want to emphasize is that we want 1 server. If we have 2 servers, that means twice the price the devs have to shell out and twice the content they have to make. Plus, whenever they add stuff it would have to be balanced to the PvP rules and the PvE rules.
One thing about the carebears: if they want it, they should have the ability to hire guards for travel and protection. And it can be either a one time thing or a full time job.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
One thing about the carebears: if they want it, they should have the ability to hire guards for travel and protection. And it can be either a one time thing or a full time job.
---
Yes... ish. For travel - like, escort me on this route from here to here. And for protection when at an established, player owned base of operations. But not for wandering the wastes, and these npcs should be far from invincible. After all, we should be encouraging people to play escort as a job as well.
Edit: Another idea - NPC run bus transport between major npc/pc outposts for solo players ( limited cargo tho).
I totally agree on the one server thing, but due to the loss of earnings from that and the technological challenge I doubt we'll see it
Derida - I agree that ppl should be able to run away and hide, in that, I wanna see high speed chases and also, a buggy coming towards you in the desert/wasteland kicks up a lot of dust. Also lets have thermal goggles and so on to help with that.
PS you can be very hard to kill in EVE, warpcores for the win!
I like the guards idea. You want to enter the wastelands, but dont want to fight? Hire a few guards, be it NPC or PC. Not only will it give you more protection, but it will give more challenge to the raiders who want to kill you. While they're fighting the guards, you can high tail it like the wimp you are.
___________________________ The Golden Rule. Risk vs. Reward
Originally posted by Radzik I like the guards idea. You want to enter the wastelands, but dont want to fight? Hire a few guards, be it NPC or PC. Not only will it give you more protection, but it will give more challenge to the raiders who want to kill you. While they're fighting the guards, you can high tail it like the wimp you are.
Exactly, it helps give a challenge to the raiders. Mainly I viewed them like Radzik does, they're cannon fodder to distract the raiders while you get away. And of course you could hire PCs to do the work too if you want.
What I ment about having one server is that we should only have 1 set of rules. Certainly they could run 5 servers, but I believe that he rules should be the same for all. Otherwise the griefers would all move to the PvP servers, and the carebears would move to the non- or reduced-PvP servers.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I don't like PvP very much and would just as soon skip it, or at best see it in arena duels. My main reason has nothing to do with being unwilling to fight; it's because I see unlimited PvP as resulting in a free-for-all gankfest ruled by punk kids who do nothing but play all day because they don't have to work for a living.
To each our prejudices.
As a card-carrying carebear, I'd prefer to see PvP flags (for those who want it), duelling (because sometimes, people just need a lesson in manners), and PvP zones where entry constitutes consent to PvP. Personally, I wouldn't object if some stuff was only available in a PvP area; Risk vs. Reward is a good thing.
Originally posted by KlausW: "As a card-carrying carebear"
This is funny - just for that you get koodos.
But, yes, it seems that we are prety much agreed that all and all Raiders/Bandits should work for their money - kills cant be gank-fests and they have to involve some degree of work.
YAY
Now, I am 75% Military/25% Carebear. So, carebears have been represented. Can I be a militant carebear? Is there an organization for such people like me? I would engage in combat if I could, but I would also stay the hell away and hunker down and hide or build me stuff and me town while I am not killing.
You see, I am interested in both aspects: the Killing/PvP and feduciary development. I dont want to spend 100% of my time killing and fighting. I want part of it devoted to building towns and making my gang stronger - well, so we can go pillage another town - of course!
Okay, I've never been a big PVP man. I tried it for about 3 seconds in SWG and then quit. To me it seems that only way "OPEN PVP" could ever be placed in a game like this, is to give the defender an equal chance to win as the attacker. Too many UBER players would be running around with the best equipment just griefing people just to apease his superiority complex. Thats where the statless Items come in. If each weapon is just as effective as the next (But each with it's own strengths and weaknesses) then it could be fun. The moment you make one gun better than another though, you'll always have the power gamer who disregards all role playing and only creates THE most powerful Avatar possible. And thats where fun in PVP drains away for casual gamers. GREAT for power gamers. Crap for the rest of us.
Just making sure, but you do realize that combat will be mostly shooter style right? Because I know what you've expirianced with Galaxies PvP, and that can leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth. But the thing is that weapons will be different strengths. Otherwise you might as well just give everyone a nerf bat. Certain weapons have to be more powerful, otherwise there is no reason to have different weapons.
The difference you will find is that the weapon does not define combat, nor does a character's skill. It is the skill and strategy of the player that will rule the day in combat. Your avatar is as powerful offensively as your twitch skills are in real life. The weapons only enhance that power.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
By the way, I still disagree with the NPC guards away from travel routes and PC towns.
If you can take em out in the wilderness, EVERYONE will have them - sort of negating the point a little.
Also, the lone traveller thing is cool, I don't want to have to have 2 nubby npcs following me around. As a general rule I disagree with the whole NPC pet thing anyway, can ruin the immersion a lot - but I can see the need t obe able to hire town guards for say, a shop and for escorting caravans to and fro.
Would anyone object to a PC faction who sells off members as guards? That way they're not mindless npcs doing peoples biddings, but just getting someone from point a to point b for some cash. I'm sure people would join it just for the quick cash, and the carebears would buy em for the protection.
___________________________ The Golden Rule. Risk vs. Reward
hell yeah thats the way it should be done wherever possible, using player to player interaction. Carebears heading out to mine or build should always factor in some escorts on the route.
Comments
Heh, that is tuly pos-apocaliptic. I kinda see it that way as well - but there needs to be ballance, in order for Radziks of the FE not to kill off all carebears....
Everyone should be suseptible to PvP but it needs to be - well,,,, I sound like a broken record - BALANCED
your no's had valid points but, somtimes when i play i dont really feal like PvPing. Sometimes i do but the ability for individuals to participate in PvP when they want to and be able to turn PvP off when they really dont have that urge would be a great benefit. by making the access point to PvP in a guild controlled building makes it where guilds are more than just a private chat room for buddies. the No about not allowing people to keep their most prized possession such as thier weapon and maybe their ammo bag may be going a little far and allowing others to greif someone. you have also made the asumption that weapons are going to be in plentifull, if they are i say go for it, but if not then you have made something fun into something very bad...
but i am always open for suggestions
and criticizm
.
i am sure that the Devs will find a happy medium for everyone. maybe even have wilderness areas where death penalties are worse, but the rewards much greater.
I really think the best way to do it is with PvP zones. Dont feel like PvPing, just head out to the non-pvp zone. Feel like PvPing, go to a very hostile area in a PvP zone.
One of the main rules I think all games should live by is RISK vs. REWARD. Too many games took this rule out to take care of the crybabies. Put something worthwhile in a PvP zone, and all the non-pvpers cry about not being fair and balanced. Its all Risk vs. Reward. You dont want to risk going into pvp lands, then you get no reward. Too many games are taking away from the risk, and adding to the reward.
The PvP zones should have much more powerful items to be found in compaired to the non pvp zones. Again, the golden rule, Risk vs. Reward.
ps. Nobody here sounds like one of these anti-pvp crybabies, which is a good thing. In a post apoc world, I just think raiding and stealing will be so popular, that nobody could just not be affected by it somehow. Dont want to get robbed, then stay clear of main roads, and stay near major cities.
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
QFE.
Having a distance from civilized areas means that at first only NPC areas will be non-PvP, but as people move out and expand so will the safe zones. In those zones you can still duel (both have to accept), but otherwise there is no PvP. Non-PvPers can't venture into the wastes, but can still go to all the places close to civilization. Theres less reward like Radzik said, but also less risk.
Also, maybe places can be attacked to cause areas to fall back into lawlessness. Wipe out an outpost along a trade route and all of a sudden anyone along the way can be raided.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I both disagree and agree here. The problem is that this is not a balance of risk and reward, it is a complete polarisation. To have an area you can generate items or resources in without risk (i.e. a PvE only area) means that those people not willing to go out and risk pvp will simply PvE for the cash to buy those items they cannot get themselves. As long as there is a situation where money can be generated with zero risk, inflation and economic realism go out of the window (see every rpg except until recently EVE Online). And if one thing does not fit with a post apocalyptic setting it is the glut of resources zero-risk PvE causes.
Its more or less my opinion that the the only non-PvP zones present should be those in and directly (very directly) around the starting npc run towns. And that literally you can gain nothing or very close to nothing from them. The best way to make these non-PvP zone is to have the players hand in all weapons (automated, for a 'ticket') to npcs before entering the town, and of course have the town choc-a-bloc full of heavily armed npc guards that dissuade PvP for line of sight from the town - and maybe a few NPC guard outposts at critical junctions nearby.
Anyways, I totally agree with the risk vs reward mentality.
Yes to non consensual PvP
Yes to full loot drops
Yes to non-uber items (i.e. rare items that are rare for a reason, most kit is standard for a reason too)
No to item insurance
I should also add, that I am against arena and CTF combat, it totally ruins the immersion for me.
Basically I feel that in a post apocalyptic world, ppl should have to watch thier backs and tread carefully.
I completely agree with Thrak, the whole non risk factor has a huge impact on economy. The devs already sugegsted seperate servers, the only big drawback I can see from this is if it is truely a dynamic world then the game exprience should be able to change by the players. If this is the case then 2 seperate servers could potentially become vastly different game worlds. Which means potentially twice as much content to generate.
However maybe Icarus has something up their sleeve, maybe these toolsets that they're developing have something that will make this a bit smoother.
I've always said that a game that gives the players ultimate freedom in the end reduces the content that the devs have to put in, because players can make their own....
I was talking with my friend last night about FE and he said that one thing he wanted to see in a game like this was working police. He wanted some kind of force in towns that could stop fights if they occured.
Lets say Player A sees a noob just starting and wants to gank him. He takes a shot and wings the noob, and this alert nearby police (any within sight/hearing range). They run at him yelling stop with weapons drawn, and if he fires again, they take him dow hard. Maybe they could do subdual damage and just knock him out of he hasn't threatened a cop, or maybe they just kill him. If hes dead, his body is now free to loot.
And by full loot drops I'm assuming that you all mean everyone is able to loot from anyone's kill.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Quote:
As much as you would like to see Non Consentual PvP, the only way that it could be done is by having PvP servers.
I disagree, and I don't really see a reason other than 'some people don't like it'. As for what devs have said, I don't take any of that as set in stone during development (benefit of the doubt
).
If you make it single server, only non-consentual, the carebears don't have a choice but to play or not to. And I think in this universe they will play. Let me put it this way: I am hoping against all odds that this is not going to be a Post Apocalyptic flavoured Everquest clone. And without non-consensual pvp, a mmorpg in this setting can pretty much only aspire to be that. Any player towns, zoneless maps etc is just trimming on the same game dynamic.
My best case scenario is to have single server total PvP.
More likely (and still a good turnout) is multiple servers some PvE some PvP - and in that situation everyone loses out due to content issues as mentioned by someone else above.
Lets face it - player generated content and events is something that cannot be matched by developer input - and is fa superior with PvP. PvP is more than just fighting, it is the ebb and flow and control of resources, buildings and territory. Guild wars style ladder pvp is so disinteresting as to be irrelevant -to me at least. I would rather go play Call of Duty for 5 minutes.
Thrak, you give a really good argument against riskless pve zones.
You took the words right out of my mouth.Only thing I have to disagree with you about is arena fighting. Has Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome taught you nothing?
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
As I have mentioned before - we need balance.
Consensual PvP? No such thing. "Uhm.. Hullo there - could you please stand still while I shoot you?"
Not going to work its silly.
Arenas/Separate Servers/Zones - Not a good idea, will ruin the immersion, and as many peeps pointed out, will create content problems.
100% PvP No holds barred kill-frag-fest: perhaps not either. Will ruin the game purpose "to rebuild earth.. blah,,, blah... blah". And will allow 12 year olds with too much time on their hands to grief others.
So? What do we have?
PvP should be allowed on the server - and it has to be single server.
Those who wish not to engage should have an opportunity to have their protection within Enclaves, Cities, and Outposts etc.
Those who wish to engage in PvP should work for it. They have to actually spend allot of time seeking hostile encounter - unless they meet like-minded individual/s who are seeking the same.
Traders/Builders/Explorers Non-PvP personnel/Non Military Personal have to be a rare treat for a determined killer. After all, in post apocalyptic world those who are trying to hide will probably have better chances of not being seen then those who stomp about with their heavy gear and big guns.
Unless, you are a real determined killer who would stalk his prey over many kilometres and stay behind - or lay low in some ruined building just waiting to pop that unsuspecting traveller - you do not deserve to be called a bandit.
There can be no Gank-fests as there is so much of it in other games. Killing has to be done with determination, preparation and with some luck.
Uncertainty should be a huge factor. Because you should never know whom you might encounter. Unless, you have done your homework, and know 100% that so and so will be travelling there and then at that time.
The Carebears - and I know it will start a huge holler - should have the advantage of running away. Because they are, after all more equipped for hiding/peaceful co-existence. Killers should work to get their meat. No other way around it.
I think so many people are leaning toward the PVP because it is easy. [I am going by my EVE experience] - when it should be hard to kill someone with style and finesse. After a while its pretty sick to see so many people killing off everything that moves - w/o even getting thrill of the hunt or conquest!
Just my two pigtails, again, on the matter.
Only thing I have to disagree with you about is arena fighting. Has Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome taught you nothing?
Ha! Well, you can always form a circle of friends and duke it out in the middle :P Bagsi the chainsaw. Duels to the death are cool, and if you decide to be dishonourable you should be able to cheat too
Its more the, rubber bullets & 'your clans ladder position is #3' & 'I would have r0xxor3d j00 1v1 in arena!!!11!' aspect of official arenas that annoys me
I think that Thrak and Derida have made some very good points here. One thing I want to emphasize is that we want 1 server. If we have 2 servers, that means twice the price the devs have to shell out and twice the content they have to make. Plus, whenever they add stuff it would have to be balanced to the PvP rules and the PvE rules.
One thing about the carebears: if they want it, they should have the ability to hire guards for travel and protection. And it can be either a one time thing or a full time job.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Cthulhuvong
One thing about the carebears: if they want it, they should have the ability to hire guards for travel and protection. And it can be either a one time thing or a full time job.
---
Yes... ish. For travel - like, escort me on this route from here to here. And for protection when at an established, player owned base of operations. But not for wandering the wastes, and these npcs should be far from invincible. After all, we should be encouraging people to play escort as a job as well.
Edit: Another idea - NPC run bus transport between major npc/pc outposts for solo players ( limited cargo tho).
I totally agree on the one server thing, but due to the loss of earnings from that and the technological challenge I doubt we'll see it
Derida - I agree that ppl should be able to run away and hide, in that, I wanna see high speed chases and also, a buggy coming towards you in the desert/wasteland kicks up a lot of dust. Also lets have thermal goggles and so on to help with that.
PS you can be very hard to kill in EVE, warpcores for the win!
I like the guards idea. You want to enter the wastelands, but dont want to fight? Hire a few guards, be it NPC or PC. Not only will it give you more protection, but it will give more challenge to the raiders who want to kill you. While they're fighting the guards, you can high tail it like the wimp you are.
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
Exactly, it helps give a challenge to the raiders. Mainly I viewed them like Radzik does, they're cannon fodder to distract the raiders while you get away. And of course you could hire PCs to do the work too if you want.
What I ment about having one server is that we should only have 1 set of rules. Certainly they could run 5 servers, but I believe that he rules should be the same for all. Otherwise the griefers would all move to the PvP servers, and the carebears would move to the non- or reduced-PvP servers.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Time for a carebear to speak up.
I don't like PvP very much and would just as soon skip it, or at best see it in arena duels. My main reason has nothing to do with being unwilling to fight; it's because I see unlimited PvP as resulting in a free-for-all gankfest ruled by punk kids who do nothing but play all day because they don't have to work for a living.
To each our prejudices.
As a card-carrying carebear, I'd prefer to see PvP flags (for those who want it), duelling (because sometimes, people just need a lesson in manners), and PvP zones where entry constitutes consent to PvP. Personally, I wouldn't object if some stuff was only available in a PvP area; Risk vs. Reward is a good thing.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
This is funny - just for that you get koodos.
But, yes, it seems that we are prety much agreed that all and all Raiders/Bandits should work for their money - kills cant be gank-fests and they have to involve some degree of work.
YAY
Now, I am 75% Military/25% Carebear. So, carebears have been represented. Can I be a militant carebear?
Is there an organization for such people like me? I would engage in combat if I could, but I would also stay the hell away and hunker down and hide or build me stuff and me town while I am not killing.
You see, I am interested in both aspects: the Killing/PvP and feduciary development. I dont want to spend 100% of my time killing and fighting. I want part of it devoted to building towns and making my gang stronger - well, so we can go pillage another town - of course!
Okay, I've never been a big PVP man. I tried it for about 3 seconds in SWG and then quit. To me it seems that only way "OPEN PVP" could ever be placed in a game like this, is to give the defender an equal chance to win as the attacker. Too many UBER players would be running around with the best equipment just griefing people just to apease his superiority complex. Thats where the statless Items come in. If each weapon is just as effective as the next (But each with it's own strengths and weaknesses) then it could be fun. The moment you make one gun better than another though, you'll always have the power gamer who disregards all role playing and only creates THE most powerful Avatar possible. And thats where fun in PVP drains away for casual gamers. GREAT for power gamers. Crap for the rest of us.
Just making sure, but you do realize that combat will be mostly shooter style right? Because I know what you've expirianced with Galaxies PvP, and that can leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth. But the thing is that weapons will be different strengths. Otherwise you might as well just give everyone a nerf bat. Certain weapons have to be more powerful, otherwise there is no reason to have different weapons.
The difference you will find is that the weapon does not define combat, nor does a character's skill. It is the skill and strategy of the player that will rule the day in combat. Your avatar is as powerful offensively as your twitch skills are in real life. The weapons only enhance that power.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
By the way, I still disagree with the NPC guards away from travel routes and PC towns.
If you can take em out in the wilderness, EVERYONE will have them - sort of negating the point a little.
Also, the lone traveller thing is cool, I don't want to have to have 2 nubby npcs following me around. As a general rule I disagree with the whole NPC pet thing anyway, can ruin the immersion a lot - but I can see the need t obe able to hire town guards for say, a shop and for escorting caravans to and fro.
Agreed, keep the Pokemon style PvP OUT of Fallen Earth. Fight your own battles or hide in the cities.
Would anyone object to a PC faction who sells off members as guards? That way they're not mindless npcs doing peoples biddings, but just getting someone from point a to point b for some cash. I'm sure people would join it just for the quick cash, and the carebears would buy em for the protection.
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
hell yeah thats the way it should be done wherever possible, using player to player interaction. Carebears heading out to mine or build should always factor in some escorts on the route.