The feeling of accomplishment that is heightened in a very unforgiving game seems lost this generation.
Good. I just told my college-applying son that "achievements" in video games are just illusions that devs used to entertain. They are not real and have zero bearing on future career, and pales in comparison to "real" achievements (get a degree, publish a story, create a painting, get something boring like writing a good paper in a class).
I asked him to play video games just for fun, and don't be too serious, and focus on real achievements (academics, arts, or whatever career path he intends to take).
Acheivements in hobbies are fine. I think part of the problem is with manufactured acheivements. Like getting one for finishing the first mandatory introduction is just wrong.
I think having achievements in games are best when other players appreciate it and its a real challenge. The little badges and points are just another treadmill.
The feeling of accomplishment that is heightened in a very unforgiving game seems lost this generation.
Good. I just told my college-applying son that "achievements" in video games are just illusions that devs used to entertain. They are not real and have zero bearing on future career, and pales in comparison to "real" achievements (get a degree, publish a story, create a painting, get something boring like writing a good paper in a class).
I asked him to play video games just for fun, and don't be too serious, and focus on real achievements (academics, arts, or whatever career path he intends to take).
Acheivements in hobbies are fine. I think part of the problem is with manufactured acheivements. Like getting one for finishing the first mandatory introduction is just wrong.
I think having achievements in games are best when other players appreciate it and its a real challenge. The little badges and points are just another treadmill.
Not video game "achievement" to me. All pve "achievements" are manufactured. It is just a matter of degree of obstacles put in your way. The e-sport stuff is slightly different. Becoming a top player in Korea (say SC2) *is* an achievement, but suffice to say none of us (and my kids) are anywhere close to that.
In my view, all achievements (explicitly rewarded in games or implicit even like those iron man challenges) are illusions and worthless. And that is how i taught my kids. Oh don't get my wrong, i still play games to entertain myself when i have leisure time. If you believe video game achievement is real, we will have a huge difference in values. Now of course what values you have is your prerogative, but i will educate my children based on mine.
The feeling of accomplishment that is heightened in a very unforgiving game seems lost this generation.
Good. I just told my college-applying son that "achievements" in video games are just illusions that devs used to entertain. They are not real and have zero bearing on future career, and pales in comparison to "real" achievements (get a degree, publish a story, create a painting, get something boring like writing a good paper in a class).
I asked him to play video games just for fun, and don't be too serious, and focus on real achievements (academics, arts, or whatever career path he intends to take).
Acheivements in hobbies are fine. I think part of the problem is with manufactured acheivements. Like getting one for finishing the first mandatory introduction is just wrong.
There's no problem with video game achievements as long as one doesn't take them too seriously. Yeah, they exist, but indeed, they are no match for real life achievements. As long as someone doesn't give a too big importance to video game achievements (in a way that harms his real life and the life of others), I don't see a problem.
Yeah, getting something hard to get in a MMORPG is an achievement. But it's nothing outside of the context of the video game.
The problem lies with people who have such a sad real life that they replace the achievements they should work for with virtual, meaningless ones.
The feeling of accomplishment that is heightened in a very unforgiving game seems lost this generation.
Good. I just told my college-applying son that "achievements" in video games are just illusions that devs used to entertain. They are not real and have zero bearing on future career, and pales in comparison to "real" achievements (get a degree, publish a story, create a painting, get something boring like writing a good paper in a class).
I asked him to play video games just for fun, and don't be too serious, and focus on real achievements (academics, arts, or whatever career path he intends to take).
Acheivements in hobbies are fine. I think part of the problem is with manufactured acheivements. Like getting one for finishing the first mandatory introduction is just wrong.
I think having achievements in games are best when other players appreciate it and its a real challenge. The little badges and points are just another treadmill.
Not video game "achievement" to me. All pve "achievements" are manufactured. It is just a matter of degree of obstacles put in your way. The e-sport stuff is slightly different. Becoming a top player in Korea (say SC2) *is* an achievement, but suffice to say none of us (and my kids) are anywhere close to that.
In my view, all achievements (explicitly rewarded in games or implicit even like those iron man challenges) are illusions and worthless. And that is how i taught my kids. Oh don't get my wrong, i still play games to entertain myself when i have leisure time. If you believe video game achievement is real, we will have a huge difference in values. Now of course what values you have is your prerogative, but i will educate my children based on mine.
I think if it's a real challenge video games achievements are fine. Even PvE ones are fine because sometimes it's insane and requires some talent.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Good. I just told my college-applying son that "achievements" in video games are just illusions that devs used to entertain. They are not real and have zero bearing on future career, and pales in comparison to "real" achievements (get a degree, publish a story, create a painting, get something boring like writing a good paper in a class).I asked him to play video games just for fun, and don't be too serious, and focus on real achievements (academics, arts, or whatever career path he intends to take).
Achievements are what an individual considers important, doesn't it? An Insurance salesman that gets a "Double Diamond" pin considers that a great achievement, as do others in their industry. The Tech Support person? Not much of an achievement to them.
The person who creates ships inside of bottles may consider a completion of a particularly hard model an great achievement, as may other modelers. Others may not share their enthusiasm.
The Valedictorian may consider their top of the class graduation placement a great achievement, as may future employers. The sports star may not.
Achievements are kind of a personal thing, don't you think? You may scoff at others achievements that do not fit in with *your* personal ideals, but does that invalidate them for that particular person?
How many silver or bronze star recipients are there? Do you care enough to look it up? How about Congressional Medal of Honor recipients? Does your own disinterest make their achievements any less notable?
So what if *you* care not one whit about some persons achievements in a video? That person still has pride in their accomplishment. Laugh all you want.
PS: I have seen you brag about your "ultra hard mode" accomplishments in both WoW and D3. Do you practice what you preach?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
... If you believe video game achievement is real, we will have a huge difference in values. Now of course what values you have is your prerogative, but i will educate my children based on mine.
I guess we have a difference in values. achieving something in game is real. I really played, I really put the time and effort to overcome whatever challenge or obstacles the designer created.
Maybe I am reading too deep but you seem to be implying that someone is ignoring responsibilities to gain achievements in a game.
You'd be surprised to see how many people can be successful and achieve great things in their work, family, hobbies and game all at the same time. I guess it isn't for everyone, some people could be overwhelmed and luckily there are plenty of games out there for mindless leisure.
Achievements are what an individual considers important, doesn't it?
Yes, and yours is different from mine. But i get to teach my kids my way.
Video achievement is not important to me. In fact, i prefer video games just for entertainment. My idea of achievement is reserved for other aspects of life.
Maybe I am reading too deep but you seem to be implying that someone is ignore responsibilities to gain achievements in a game.
You'd be surprised to see how many people can be successful and achieve great things in their work, family, hobbies and game all at the same time. I guess it isn't for everyone, some people could be overwhelmed and luckily there are plenty of games out there for mindless leisure.
No, you are reading too deep. I say nothing about responsibility. In fact, responsibility is totally independent to achievement. I am responsible to provide food for my children. I do not consider that an "achievement" in a prosperous society.
I also did not argue that one cannot be successful in multiple things. I certainly *can* (and had) completely a hard mode raid. That does not mean that i have to view that as an achievement. You are confused between abilities and values.
Oh I don't disagree there are idiots in all categories.
What I say remains true. The older gamers have experienced way more varied games, and therefore are logically less resistant to change, specially if they are still gaming today. The guy who only played WoW and the subsequent clones knows only one style of MMORPG.
But research has shown resistance to change does increase with age.
NO
IT
HAS
NOT.
Research has not shown this. This is a lie. Please, do not believe anything this user says.
Why would you say this? The research on the subject of gerontology and change, proves the OPPOSITE of what you're saying research has shown.
What research are you talking about, which shows resistance to change DOES increase with age? The only research cited in this entire thread, is research which shows the opposite. The research I referred to in the OP, is common knowledge in psychology and in the study of gerontology.
Do you hold a degree in gerontology? Really? Well I do. Do you have research backed up by hundreds of scientists, doctors, and experts? Really? Well I do. Is what you learned in your degree in gerontology common knowledge that it is a stereotype and myth that old people are more resistant to change? It is for everyone who has such a degree. It's one of the first things they learn.
Stereotypes and Myths about the Elderly are just that- stereotypes and myths.
The facts say otherwise.
Why would anyone believe this, after they've been educated on the matter? Did you read nothing?
The Elderly are ADAPTABLE to Change, not resistant to it.
Most elderly people are NOT in "old folks homes".
People over 100 years old can do phenomenally physical feats.
The Elderly are NOT incompetent like the stereotypes.
If someone uses a common stereotype with the evidence and says "The Research Shows", unless they hold a degree in the subject then demand they link their research. I linked mine, so why would it be so hard to link yours? I stated my crednetials, so what about yours? I linked you to an understand anyone can understand- why can't you?
Oh that's right. Because research actually shows the opposite of what you said. That the elderly are NOT more resistant to change. I forgot that people are wrong when they make statements that aren't true, like "research has shown resistance to change does increase with age."
Here, I will make this simple: it is an article from PsychologyToday, about the common myths about the elderly. It is in a format that even the laymen can understand, and from a website that few can use ad-hominem attacks against.
Oh I don't disagree there are idiots in all categories.
What I say remains true. The older gamers have experienced way more varied games, and therefore are logically less resistant to change, specially if they are still gaming today. The guy who only played WoW and the subsequent clones knows only one style of MMORPG.
But research has shown resistance to change does increase with age.
NO
IT
HAS
NOT.
Research has not shown this. This is a lie. Please, do not believe anything this user says.
Why would you say this? The research on the subject of gerontology and change, proves the OPPOSITE of what you're saying research has shown.
What research are you talking about, which shows resistance to change DOES increase with age? The only research cited in this entire thread, is research which shows the opposite. The research I referred to in the OP, is common knowledge in psychology and in the study of gerontology.
Do you hold a degree in gerontology? Really? Well I do. Do you have research backed up by hundreds of scientists, doctors, and experts? Really? Well I do. Is what you learned in your degree in gerontology common knowledge that it is a stereotype and myth that old people are more resistant to change? It is for everyone who has such a degree. It's one of the first things they learn.
Stereotypes and Myths about the Elderly are just that- stereotypes and myths.
The facts say otherwise.
Why would anyone believe this, after they've been educated on the matter? Did you read nothing?
The Elderly are ADAPTABLE to Change, not resistant to it.
Most elderly people are NOT in "old folks homes".
People over 100 years old can do phenomenally physical feats.
The Elderly are NOT incompetent like the stereotypes.
If someone uses a common stereotype with the evidence and says "The Research Shows", unless they hold a degree in the subject then demand they link their research. I linked mine, so why would it be so hard to link yours?
Sir, repeatedly posting links to yourself is not the same as evidence.
If you are so adamant that no research supports such claims as age having an effect on willingness to change, then post some examples. Linking to your own words is not an example of this, btw. Currently you're coming across more as someone who is mad about either being old (i.e. over 40), or someone who feels they know someone being mistreated for being old.
I dont know you, but you seem extremely passionate about this subjects. Perhaps a little overly so. Calm down, take a deep breath, and collect your thoughts.
- For one, being adaptable to change and resistant, are not mutually exclusive. People can be both. And it has been known that elderly can change, just as young people can change. However, all evidence (at least that I've seen) supports that it gets HARDER as you age. Not easier, or the same. This makes sense as there are many contributing factors that build as you age. Not just your organs. Things like habits, experiences, perspectives, prejudices. These things compound the longer you hold onto them.
And I have yet to see any evidence that it is just as easy, or easier, to try and change; after you've developed a pre-existing habit, pattern, pretense, or assumption. In fact, there are many examples of this being true across multiple age groups, not just the elderly. Not the very least being that people will vehemently argue a perspective they've had for a while, even when wrong. Often under the assumption that they are infact correct. It's normal.
That said, the mind is flexible. And someone who is making a serious and conscious effort to change can do so. But it is very difficult. However, the more research that's done on the human psyche, the more we discover that people (in general) are much more predictable, and resistant to change than we want to believe. This is why people get paid to tell companies what people are going to be buying today, tomorrow, and 10-20 years from now.
*** It is important to note that what I'm talking about is 'meaningful' or 'significant' change. I'm referring to the type of change that can be life altering. Not whether you decide to where blue or green pants today. When talking about small changes, everyone does them on a daily basis, and for the purposes of this discussion are not relevant.
It seems to me that this entire string makes the example against itself as empirical thought is only thought to be inferior to research by researchers, who, by their very nature, use empirical thought to generate and test their research. A "habit" that comes from being taught how to research, which can only be done over time and through repetition of process and learning.
I submit then that, because resistance to change can be classified as a "habit" and a habit can only be generated by repetition, which itself is a result of action + time, the older person is more resistant to change for no other reason than it takes time to develop a habit. That is not to say that in the larger scope of things that the elderly are more resistant to change, but to say that anyone who has been doing anything repetitively enough to have developed a habit will also develop an expectation from said habit that, when not met, may cause some measure of discomfort.
Thus, older gamers, provided that they are actually older gamers who have been playing games for a while and not just gamers who suddenly decided to pick up a game at an age which might be considered old, are more likely to be resistant to changes that they deem unnecessary or that "lessen the quality of the overall game experience" simply because they had developed a habit of playing those older games a certain way and thus an expectation of a certain mental or even sometimes physical reward from said gameplay.
I don't need to cite someone to use common sense. And common sense tells me that the very fact that you think that research is required in order to validate what should be as simple as these 4 paragraphs that I have written indicates not only that you are old enough to have generated a habit, but that said habit, and the expectations that you have of it's rewards, and your belief that only through said habit can something that is true actually be true, makes you resistant to change. A thing that could have only happened to you over time, which equals age.
For all that effort you resort to an ad hominem? The reseach I am referring to is in the field of organizational leadership & management and management of change, not gerontology, but I am not too enthusiastic about searching for those articles again. The field doesn't interest me all that much and I don't expect to work in HR anytime soon.
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by Kwaynos99I will let everyone else decide. I will also make it simple. I will select someone who just said "Research has shown resistance to change does increase with age." and compare them to the author of the article I just linked to help further educate those reading this thread. So what do you all think? Who should we believe?This guy....[...]
For all that effort you resort to an ad hominem? The reseach I am referring to is in the field of organizational leadership & management and management of change, not gerontology, but I am not too enthusiastic about searching for those articles again. The field doesn't interest me all that much and I don't expect to work in HR anytime soon.
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
Try explain young people how wonderful it was when there where no mobile phones or tablets or internet, i can't they look at me if im from another planet hehe
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
This site should print that on t-shirts and sell it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Try explain young people how wonderful it was when there where no mobile phones or tablets or internet, i can't they look at me if im from another planet hehe
gotta love context
I used to be an avid reader of books / magazines
but now I'm more immersed in video gaming than anything else
For all that effort you resort to an ad hominem? The reseach I am referring to is in the field of organizational leadership & management and management of change, not gerontology, but I am not too enthusiastic about searching for those articles again. The field doesn't interest me all that much and I don't expect to work in HR anytime soon.
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
Well said.
I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp, lol.
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
Basically "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Seems like common sense to me. I don't like change for the sake of change. If I like something the way it is why would I want it to change?
I totally agree with the OP I know many gamers who are always thinking, Man there needs to be somthing new. I would love to see more games come forth that were like the old Asherons Call because you could either choose to customize your class build or pick from the prebuilt warrior, caster etc. Instead of trying to target the younger audience they should be looking for ways to please everyone instead of bending over to one side or the other, and yes there are ways to do it . In my opinion there recycling the wrong things from game to game everyone wants somthing new not just the new guys. Honestly if there was more lower level things to do they would have more time to focus on endgame updates but this is just my opinion.
Honestly, I am not sure why 7 of my references were deleted. I guess people truly want to believe the Elderly are incompetent people who forget everything, live in old folks home, have a dried up sex life, and poop their pants every day.
It is simply amazing to me how vehemently some users here want to believe the myths about the Elderly, and deny the facts about them.
This will most likely be the last time I ever defend the elderly on this website. What is the point? These young kids are adamant about believing they fit the stereotypes.
It is so sad, when all you wanted to say was "Many of the common stereotypes about the elderly are myths." and the result is people denying research, using ad hominem attacks, and saying "That research proves the myths ARE true!"
It goes beyond me, how someone can read "Myth: The Elderly are adaptable when it comes to change." and then say THAT VERY SENTENCE proves "Fact: The Elderly are resistance when it comes to change."
Enjoy your ignorance kids. I mean, justice is inevitable. You'll be old one day, and the youth will believe myths about you just the same
Hey man, for the record I am in my mid 40's and proud of it. I got nothing against the elderly, nor do I believe they they are stubborn old mules that don't have sex or sit around and poop themselves all day. I don't even think that is right to say. But if you are going to get yourself all emotionally invested in anything that anyone on the internet says I can tell you that you are plain old barking up the wrong tree.
True, a lot of people are just plain ignorant. That still doesn't make it polite to point that out though. As the saying goes, "There but for the grace of god go I" and if you are human, which I believe most of us are, it is completely likely that you too were that ignorant at some point, before you knew better not to be, as well.
Trying to tell them/us then, and expecting them/us to listen, is like expecting your younger self to have listened to everything your parents told you when you were growing up. You can't really expect that to work. It can't work. Young people don't even have the context to put a lot of what older people are saying to them in perspective because older folks are talking from experiences that younger people haven't even had yet when giving most of their advice.
As for research. Well, all research is practice, not rule. That's why doctors "practice" medicine and lawyers "practice" law. If we all just settled in on what research told us we'd all be screwed as there is constantly a new study coming out to contradict an old study every day. Why just the other day I heard research that said that coffee was good for you. Then I went to the doctors office only to hear him say, "Don't drink that stuff, its terrible for you!" I mean, what are you gonna do right? Fuggetaboutit!!!
So cheer up buckeroo. The silver lining here is that they/we will all learn eventually. In the meantime, if you are elderly, or even an adult, try to set a better example than to come into a place where you know the youth hangs out and repeatedly call everyone ignorant for not genuflecting at your elderly magnificence. For in the words of my good friend "Willy Shakes"...
"Tis unmanly grief.
It shows a will most incorrect to heaven,
A heart unfortified, a mind impatient,
An understanding simple and unschooled.
For what we know must be and is as common"
In other words. Let em live and learn for theirselves, you got to, so should they.
And as for anyone who thinks that 40 something is old, send yer lady over to my place and she and I can discuss it over a glass of Courvoisier :P I got mine right here! - The Ladies Man (2000)
I think the main problem of many "older gamers" is that they somehow built the image of the "perfect MMORPG" in their mind over the years, and any game that strays even a bit away from that image is, in their mind again, a "failure". Much said on this forum actually confirms that theory.
I'm an old gamer with an open mind. I'm willing, no I'm yearning for new experiences different from the same old I've already done. I also have some "perfect MMORPG" image somewhere, but I don't let it go in the way when I try new games.
When I see people asking for a copy of old EQ with better graphics, I can't help but facepalm. Exactly the same people complain that many of the latest games are "clones", which makes it a double facepalm.
Oh, and worth mentioning too: most of those images of the "perfect MMORPG" are totally non viable and would tank and fail faster and harder than any of the games those "old gamers" critic harshly and pretend being failures.
I'm not resistant to change, if I see that its change to the better.
In fact I spend a lot of my time to try to change the world for the better.
But I dont jump on fashions that make no sense to me though. For example, I simply dont need a cellphone, and I hate this attitude of being reacheable all the time. I dont need that, thank you very much.
Comments
Acheivements in hobbies are fine. I think part of the problem is with manufactured acheivements. Like getting one for finishing the first mandatory introduction is just wrong.
I think having achievements in games are best when other players appreciate it and its a real challenge. The little badges and points are just another treadmill.
Not video game "achievement" to me. All pve "achievements" are manufactured. It is just a matter of degree of obstacles put in your way. The e-sport stuff is slightly different. Becoming a top player in Korea (say SC2) *is* an achievement, but suffice to say none of us (and my kids) are anywhere close to that.
In my view, all achievements (explicitly rewarded in games or implicit even like those iron man challenges) are illusions and worthless. And that is how i taught my kids. Oh don't get my wrong, i still play games to entertain myself when i have leisure time. If you believe video game achievement is real, we will have a huge difference in values. Now of course what values you have is your prerogative, but i will educate my children based on mine.
There's no problem with video game achievements as long as one doesn't take them too seriously. Yeah, they exist, but indeed, they are no match for real life achievements. As long as someone doesn't give a too big importance to video game achievements (in a way that harms his real life and the life of others), I don't see a problem.
Yeah, getting something hard to get in a MMORPG is an achievement. But it's nothing outside of the context of the video game.
The problem lies with people who have such a sad real life that they replace the achievements they should work for with virtual, meaningless ones.
My computer is better than yours.
I think if it's a real challenge video games achievements are fine. Even PvE ones are fine because sometimes it's insane and requires some talent.
The person who creates ships inside of bottles may consider a completion of a particularly hard model an great achievement, as may other modelers. Others may not share their enthusiasm.
The Valedictorian may consider their top of the class graduation placement a great achievement, as may future employers. The sports star may not.
Achievements are kind of a personal thing, don't you think? You may scoff at others achievements that do not fit in with *your* personal ideals, but does that invalidate them for that particular person?
How many silver or bronze star recipients are there? Do you care enough to look it up? How about Congressional Medal of Honor recipients? Does your own disinterest make their achievements any less notable?
So what if *you* care not one whit about some persons achievements in a video? That person still has pride in their accomplishment. Laugh all you want.
PS: I have seen you brag about your "ultra hard mode" accomplishments in both WoW and D3. Do you practice what you preach?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I guess we have a difference in values. achieving something in game is real. I really played, I really put the time and effort to overcome whatever challenge or obstacles the designer created.
Maybe I am reading too deep but you seem to be implying that someone is ignoring responsibilities to gain achievements in a game.
You'd be surprised to see how many people can be successful and achieve great things in their work, family, hobbies and game all at the same time. I guess it isn't for everyone, some people could be overwhelmed and luckily there are plenty of games out there for mindless leisure.
No, you are reading too deep. I say nothing about responsibility. In fact, responsibility is totally independent to achievement. I am responsible to provide food for my children. I do not consider that an "achievement" in a prosperous society.
I also did not argue that one cannot be successful in multiple things. I certainly *can* (and had) completely a hard mode raid. That does not mean that i have to view that as an achievement. You are confused between abilities and values.
I love it, anyone else got the reference!
If this were true it would not surprise me at all. In fact, I think more often it IS the case.
NO
IT
HAS
NOT.
Research has not shown this. This is a lie. Please, do not believe anything this user says.
Why would you say this? The research on the subject of gerontology and change, proves the OPPOSITE of what you're saying research has shown.
What research are you talking about, which shows resistance to change DOES increase with age? The only research cited in this entire thread, is research which shows the opposite. The research I referred to in the OP, is common knowledge in psychology and in the study of gerontology.
Do you hold a degree in gerontology? Really? Well I do. Do you have research backed up by hundreds of scientists, doctors, and experts? Really? Well I do. Is what you learned in your degree in gerontology common knowledge that it is a stereotype and myth that old people are more resistant to change? It is for everyone who has such a degree. It's one of the first things they learn.
Stereotypes and Myths about the Elderly are just that- stereotypes and myths.
The facts say otherwise.
Why would anyone believe this, after they've been educated on the matter? Did you read nothing?
To start, try this post, or this post.
Guess what people?
The Elderly DO have sex. Lots of it.
The Elderly are ADAPTABLE to Change, not resistant to it.
Most elderly people are NOT in "old folks homes".
People over 100 years old can do phenomenally physical feats.
The Elderly are NOT incompetent like the stereotypes.
If someone uses a common stereotype with the evidence and says "The Research Shows", unless they hold a degree in the subject then demand they link their research. I linked mine, so why would it be so hard to link yours? I stated my crednetials, so what about yours? I linked you to an understand anyone can understand- why can't you?
Oh that's right. Because research actually shows the opposite of what you said. That the elderly are NOT more resistant to change. I forgot that people are wrong when they make statements that aren't true, like "research has shown resistance to change does increase with age."
Here, I will make this simple: it is an article from PsychologyToday, about the common myths about the elderly. It is in a format that even the laymen can understand, and from a website that few can use ad-hominem attacks against.
More myths debunked.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wise/201101/myths-aging
Sir, repeatedly posting links to yourself is not the same as evidence.
If you are so adamant that no research supports such claims as age having an effect on willingness to change, then post some examples. Linking to your own words is not an example of this, btw. Currently you're coming across more as someone who is mad about either being old (i.e. over 40), or someone who feels they know someone being mistreated for being old.
I dont know you, but you seem extremely passionate about this subjects. Perhaps a little overly so. Calm down, take a deep breath, and collect your thoughts.
- For one, being adaptable to change and resistant, are not mutually exclusive. People can be both. And it has been known that elderly can change, just as young people can change. However, all evidence (at least that I've seen) supports that it gets HARDER as you age. Not easier, or the same. This makes sense as there are many contributing factors that build as you age. Not just your organs. Things like habits, experiences, perspectives, prejudices. These things compound the longer you hold onto them.
And I have yet to see any evidence that it is just as easy, or easier, to try and change; after you've developed a pre-existing habit, pattern, pretense, or assumption. In fact, there are many examples of this being true across multiple age groups, not just the elderly. Not the very least being that people will vehemently argue a perspective they've had for a while, even when wrong. Often under the assumption that they are infact correct. It's normal.
That said, the mind is flexible. And someone who is making a serious and conscious effort to change can do so. But it is very difficult. However, the more research that's done on the human psyche, the more we discover that people (in general) are much more predictable, and resistant to change than we want to believe. This is why people get paid to tell companies what people are going to be buying today, tomorrow, and 10-20 years from now.
*** It is important to note that what I'm talking about is 'meaningful' or 'significant' change. I'm referring to the type of change that can be life altering. Not whether you decide to where blue or green pants today. When talking about small changes, everyone does them on a daily basis, and for the purposes of this discussion are not relevant.
It seems to me that this entire string makes the example against itself as empirical thought is only thought to be inferior to research by researchers, who, by their very nature, use empirical thought to generate and test their research. A "habit" that comes from being taught how to research, which can only be done over time and through repetition of process and learning.
I submit then that, because resistance to change can be classified as a "habit" and a habit can only be generated by repetition, which itself is a result of action + time, the older person is more resistant to change for no other reason than it takes time to develop a habit. That is not to say that in the larger scope of things that the elderly are more resistant to change, but to say that anyone who has been doing anything repetitively enough to have developed a habit will also develop an expectation from said habit that, when not met, may cause some measure of discomfort.
Thus, older gamers, provided that they are actually older gamers who have been playing games for a while and not just gamers who suddenly decided to pick up a game at an age which might be considered old, are more likely to be resistant to changes that they deem unnecessary or that "lessen the quality of the overall game experience" simply because they had developed a habit of playing those older games a certain way and thus an expectation of a certain mental or even sometimes physical reward from said gameplay.
I don't need to cite someone to use common sense. And common sense tells me that the very fact that you think that research is required in order to validate what should be as simple as these 4 paragraphs that I have written indicates not only that you are old enough to have generated a habit, but that said habit, and the expectations that you have of it's rewards, and your belief that only through said habit can something that is true actually be true, makes you resistant to change. A thing that could have only happened to you over time, which equals age.
For all that effort you resort to an ad hominem? The reseach I am referring to is in the field of organizational leadership & management and management of change, not gerontology, but I am not too enthusiastic about searching for those articles again. The field doesn't interest me all that much and I don't expect to work in HR anytime soon.
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The term cognitive inertia explains some of the reasons why veterans are more likely to be resistant to change. People stick to what they know and the longer it has worked for them so far, the harder it is to give it up.
Try explain young people how wonderful it was when there where no mobile phones or tablets or internet, i can't they look at me if im from another planet hehe
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
This site should print that on t-shirts and sell it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
gotta love context
I used to be an avid reader of books / magazines
but now I'm more immersed in video gaming than anything else
EQ2 fan sites
Well said.
I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp, lol.
Basically "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Seems like common sense to me. I don't like change for the sake of change. If I like something the way it is why would I want it to change?
Honestly, I am not sure why 7 of my references were deleted. I guess people truly want to believe the Elderly are incompetent people who forget everything, live in old folks home, have a dried up sex life, and poop their pants every day.
It is simply amazing to me how vehemently some users here want to believe the myths about the Elderly, and deny the facts about them.
This will most likely be the last time I ever defend the elderly on this website. What is the point? These young kids are adamant about believing they fit the stereotypes.
It is so sad, when all you wanted to say was "Many of the common stereotypes about the elderly are myths." and the result is people denying research, using ad hominem attacks, and saying "That research proves the myths ARE true!"
It goes beyond me, how someone can read "Myth: The Elderly are adaptable when it comes to change." and then say THAT VERY SENTENCE proves "Fact: The Elderly are resistance when it comes to change."
Enjoy your ignorance kids. I mean, justice is inevitable. You'll be old one day, and the youth will believe myths about you just the same
Hey man, for the record I am in my mid 40's and proud of it. I got nothing against the elderly, nor do I believe they they are stubborn old mules that don't have sex or sit around and poop themselves all day. I don't even think that is right to say. But if you are going to get yourself all emotionally invested in anything that anyone on the internet says I can tell you that you are plain old barking up the wrong tree.
True, a lot of people are just plain ignorant. That still doesn't make it polite to point that out though. As the saying goes, "There but for the grace of god go I" and if you are human, which I believe most of us are, it is completely likely that you too were that ignorant at some point, before you knew better not to be, as well.
Trying to tell them/us then, and expecting them/us to listen, is like expecting your younger self to have listened to everything your parents told you when you were growing up. You can't really expect that to work. It can't work. Young people don't even have the context to put a lot of what older people are saying to them in perspective because older folks are talking from experiences that younger people haven't even had yet when giving most of their advice.
As for research. Well, all research is practice, not rule. That's why doctors "practice" medicine and lawyers "practice" law. If we all just settled in on what research told us we'd all be screwed as there is constantly a new study coming out to contradict an old study every day. Why just the other day I heard research that said that coffee was good for you. Then I went to the doctors office only to hear him say, "Don't drink that stuff, its terrible for you!" I mean, what are you gonna do right? Fuggetaboutit!!!
So cheer up buckeroo. The silver lining here is that they/we will all learn eventually. In the meantime, if you are elderly, or even an adult, try to set a better example than to come into a place where you know the youth hangs out and repeatedly call everyone ignorant for not genuflecting at your elderly magnificence. For in the words of my good friend "Willy Shakes"...
"Tis unmanly grief.
It shows a will most incorrect to heaven,
A heart unfortified, a mind impatient,
An understanding simple and unschooled.
For what we know must be and is as common"
In other words. Let em live and learn for theirselves, you got to, so should they.
And as for anyone who thinks that 40 something is old, send yer lady over to my place and she and I can discuss it over a glass of Courvoisier :P I got mine right here! - The Ladies Man (2000)
I think the main problem of many "older gamers" is that they somehow built the image of the "perfect MMORPG" in their mind over the years, and any game that strays even a bit away from that image is, in their mind again, a "failure". Much said on this forum actually confirms that theory.
I'm an old gamer with an open mind. I'm willing, no I'm yearning for new experiences different from the same old I've already done. I also have some "perfect MMORPG" image somewhere, but I don't let it go in the way when I try new games.
When I see people asking for a copy of old EQ with better graphics, I can't help but facepalm. Exactly the same people complain that many of the latest games are "clones", which makes it a double facepalm.
Oh, and worth mentioning too: most of those images of the "perfect MMORPG" are totally non viable and would tank and fail faster and harder than any of the games those "old gamers" critic harshly and pretend being failures.
My computer is better than yours.
I'm not resistant to change, if I see that its change to the better.
In fact I spend a lot of my time to try to change the world for the better.
But I dont jump on fashions that make no sense to me though. For example, I simply dont need a cellphone, and I hate this attitude of being reacheable all the time. I dont need that, thank you very much.