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Old School...Any way to appeal to a developer ?
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Member Posts: 312
What would be nice if we had a REAL way to appeal to a developer or to get one to Liston to a larger group. First thing everyone here would say is " hay, just e-mail them " ....Now come on you should know better.
- I'm sure many here would love to see an Old School mmo.
- I'm sure many would say not.
- I'm sure many would say the OPINIONS would be all over the place on how it should be made. We should not have to give our OPINIONS.....Let them take care of that.
Here is my take on this subject, and yes its only my OPINION :
Many here don't know any better, they think of Old School = Old game. Even if it starts out as a niche mmo, I would think it would turn out to be a huge success. None the less it would be re-original since its been so long and at the very least still be a money maker for developers.
I wish mmorpg.com could look at our cry. Do an over all assessment of topics and appeal to a developer. Because as a one we have no voice......And last, I totally believe the new saying " vote with your wallet " is bull crap. We are starving from one release to the next and we all play everyone good or bad !
Comments
many mmo's? please name them for me.
There are not alot. and yes it comes down to grapichs and a world.
The worlds of those old mmo's are empty. that is because they are empty. People off the post-wow crowd are not gonna launch up a 13y-old game and say het that looks great lets play it.
Now a new game with grapichs of today but mehcanics and a world from the past might actually get them to play and like it.
If people like those games they are still here to play, why should graphics get in the way of a type of mmo that you claim to like. I'm one of the old school and i play Wurm Online, it has everything you would want from a deep rewarding mmo. The graphics are not top notch but that is made up by the epic game play.
If you really like this style of mmo then why would graphic get in your way, on top of that you don't need millions playing a mmo. You could boot up anyone of those old school mmos and join a guild and enjoy the game, why haven't you. It's because you want the shiny graphics more than you actually want the game play, let's be honest.
You are letting graphics rule what mmos you play.
And you still haven't said what features you are looking for in an mmo.
The fact that those worlds are
empty speaks volumes. There Is your reason right there why only indies make "old school" mmos.
You know.... I'm can't wait to see the upcoming indie Mmo wars. With only a
limited playerbase to fuel them. I'm curious as to who will be thelastman standing.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
yeah i kinda do and there are many like me.im sorry but if i play bf4 one day and other games with lifelike grapichs it hurt my eyes to play those 10y-old games on a steady basis. i literaly wanna rip out my eyeballs.
so yes i let grapichs dictate what i want to play. and that the old games are empty. indeed i don't need millions to play. but lets for instance say i boot up EQ2 again. the guild i was in is still there. just arnt alot of people around. that is really discouraging.
i play MMo's for the social contact and hem being virtual worlds. Both are lacking from the new mmo's and the old mmo's used to have great social platforms most are either changed beyond regocnition to adept to the new kind of player wich won't show because the games how a low number of people playing them. the only thing they still have going for them is the world itself but with those graphics im sorry but i kinda like my eyes don't wanna rip em out just yet.
Tell me this would it hurt you if they released a new mmo with oldschool mechanics? you say you play them yet oppose the idea of a new one to attract more players. what gives?
they are empty because they are empty.
there is nothing more discouraging in an mmo then a empty mmo world.
people are not giving those games the chance they deserve.
a launch is very important for an mmo in that way. specially if its an mmo wich encourages grouping.
so its a viscous cycle where people cannot give the game a fair shot because there are little people around at the starter areas. and not because people do not want to play them. Heck if you ask one of the poast wow kiddies what EQ is they go everwhat?
When did i say i oppose the idea of a new mmo to attract more players, can you quote me saying that plz, i'll wait here for you to actually show me.
Thanks.
Have you considered that old school MMOs were a niche in gaming specifically because they were "old school"? Afterall, MMOs broke through to mainstream only after they became "new school".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
agree - money talks
making games can be expensive and you are at risk for losing your investment
it takes more than good ideas
EQ2 fan sites
its what your implying is it not? by pointing out there are a ton of old school games go play them. your pretty much saying we are not in need of a new one. thus opposing it.
Again, when did i say i was opposed to anything, seems you have gotten mixed up with a suggestion and what you consider implying lol. That's the problem with debating with someone who makes things up as they go along because they don't actually read or understand what the other person is saying.
Nope i didn't say we don't need new mmos lol, their you go ago making it up as you go along.
Unless you can actually quote me as saying these things instead of deciding what you think i said, i suggest you forget having a debate.
Reread what i said to the OP and you will find that i never once mention being opposed to any new mmos, hell i'm looking forward to black desert. I'm an old EQ vet and looking forward to what Smed & Co can bring, that doesn't mean that i'm stuck on playing mmo that only have shiny graphics or high populations.
Many of those old games are still here, nothing stopping you or anyone else playing them.
Perhaps graphics are controlling what type of mmo you choose to play, don't tell me about low population because that's mute if you join a guild.
Perhaps you don't really like the old games as much as you claim, notice i said "perhaps" that's not me saying you don't that's me asking.
I'm still waiting for these quotes.
But arn't upcoming MMORPG's actually implimenting more "old school mixed into new school"
And then there's Kickstarter game projects which also seems to go more towards the old school MMORPG player.
So yeah developers seem to be listening all over the world.
You didn't say that, but ..thats what most people would think when reading your responce....don't you think ?
To some players , me included , going back in time to play the old is never a good idea regardless how good the game once was.
I also like the modern Graphics, after all we live in 2013 and getting used to how games should look in 2013 is given to us.
It's like watching black/white Movies from the past, sure they may be good and you may be missing out on a great movie if you pass on watching it because it has no color or computer effects like the 2013 remake.
Some people like to stay in the present regarding technology, but may still miss some aspects of the ways they made things happen in the past.
Ok..there is also the issue with "indie" titles ..Like Wurm Online, I guess it's a matter of appeal , it's not an old game , but it's an ugly game.
It may be the game of games gameplay wise , but for some it's simply missing something , arts and Graphics that makes you comfortable with this game, Is that such a bad thing to ask for ?
Sure you may see this as odd or even stupid, but thats how things is with me atleast, I never go back to a game once i played it or if it's to old . I have tried countless of times an it has failed every time.
However, there is a slim chance of us getting the wishes fullfilled , since no AAA developer will make this "old school" game with modern Graphics, not in a few years atleast. After a few years however there is a slim chance that the market has shifted and the need for a game thats let's you live in a world not an arcade hall will be bigger.
Wow, really? If I was a developer I sure wouldn't want that. Have you ever even read the forums here? There's a reason dev's don't WANT to listen to us.
Gamers are mostly whiney, little brats who don't even know what they really want. No thanks. As a developer, I sure wouldn't want direct access to all the abuse all day.
Old school = empty world? WHAT?
SWG, EQ, Anarchy Online, UO, vanguard, many others and I never seen an empty world............... there was always something to do, some beast that needed killing, some exploration or adventure to go on.
Newer aged mmo's are the most empty games I have played. People don't speak, just solo everything. See someone in trouble and just walk by, if you do help you are called names and a kill stealer. People don't hang out and just socialize in places any longer, the community may be bigger but they are "empty". Crafting, business aspect, bartering were full of people wheeling and dealing, now you can buy even the basic of items off of some kind of in game market. Worlds use to be open and full of exploration and adventure, now everything is fast traveled, maps are tiny, its a single path on a leash, forced into a story not able to make your own path. Creatures in SWG would fight and kill other creatures around them, the interaction of npc's and wild life was great. Now you have 2-3 critters that spawn and just hang around in one little area.
Are you people sure we are talking about the right games here? Problem is the newer aged gamers have become lazy and soft, wanting everything up front and never having to earn anything. And this is what our developers see and make because they are looking at profits. MMO's should never have an end game nor be closed in. Old D&D games we used our imagination, we made things up, our path was never clear, all that is gone. New mmorpgs play like console style rpg's that's it.
The player base was not even half of what it is today, so its not even a good comparison between the two. But in my humble opinion older games offered a hell of a lot more than new aged games. This Is why you people drop 50$+ on a game beat it in a week and cry about the game sucking lol. There is no longevity in our newer games, why everything is free and dull now.
I am not a "bitter old timer", I just don't part take in linear garbage with nothing to offer me that I can beat in a week. Eye candy and forced story lines do not appeal to me.
I mean you even have nuts running around on this forum thinking lobby games are true and epic mmorpg's lol. Games like LOL and WOT are the future of mmorpg;s when they aren't even rpg's to begin with lol. Half the people here don't even know the difference between mmorpg's and single player w/ multiplayer functions, or the difference between mmo and lobby games. Some people even claim you can have a mmorpg without a virtual world........ what? If you take all that is true of a mmorpg and remove it, you aren't playing mmorpg's,
A game with 50k people that interact, socializes, is part of the community, group up, adventure, explore, and are friendly to one another are more "full" than a million people that ignore you, don't group up, don't help each other, don't socialize unless they need something, and don't bother taking part in the mmorpg aspect of the game which is very "empty". Since an old school game has not been released in a loooong time, it is kind of hard to compare the two equally nor not be biased towards one over the other. And if the majority of the newer aged games prefer solo centric game, does it really matter if there are 5 billion people on your server?
It's hilarious how shortsighted people can be.
The irony here is that most of those old MMOs are empty because they changed their core game to appeal to modern audiences and caused everyone to quit, and now no one works on them so no one plays them.
If there was a DAoC classic server, I'd be playing it. There was an EQ classic server for a while and it was so popular they had to open a second one. If SWG had a classic server... the game might still be running. If AC had a new server, I'd play it.
But they don't. No one wants to play what they BECAME, not what they were.
To answer the OP's question, there are a surprising number of devs that want to make that kind of game. The problem is, they are ruled by publishers, and publishers ONLY want WoW clones.
As far as MMORPG.com, it is not their "purpose" to get games made. Their "purpose" is to report on the industry, just like most other gaming sites. I could be wrong as I have not seen their "purpose" outlined, but I think it is a safe bet
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
UO - WoW-ified (made easier for players)
EQ - WoW-ified (made easier for players)
SW:G - Closed Down for a - WoW-ified MMO (made easier for players)
The big three. I do not know about DAoC, AC, AoC, and quite a few others. Never played them. I have a feeling that they, too, have been made easier for players to get into and progress.
I am actually back playing EQ. Some of the changes they have made I like. Others, not so much. I have gotten my character to 17th level (in about 4 days (96 hours) of total time played) and am still waiting to do a corpse run. Yes, I have died. I am trying to get as far as I can before hiring a mercenary to help me out. The zones I am in, with the exception of PoK are ALL bare, so far. I have seen at most, in the old early zones, 2 other players.
The old MMOs may still be running, but they are NOT the same games. Do not go that route anymore, please. It is a fallacy.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Indie development is our main go-to these days for what you want. Crowdfunding. We have to speak with our money. It's not like these developers are rich assholes sitting around making watered-down mmos because they love mediocrity and cheap thrills. Most of them have great ideas and would love to express them. And that's why so many of them are on Kickstarter, etc.
It's not so bleak. There are some potential gems on the horizon. Have faith
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
They are empty because there aren't enough people who want to play those kinds of games. There aren't enough people to keep those games in business. If there were, developers would make them. The problem is, this forum really doesn't represent a drop of piss in the MMORPG pool, people think there are tens or hundreds of thousands of old school MMO fans out there and it's just not true. There are hundreds, maybe a thousand or two, but that's all. That's not enough to get an old school MMO made and have it be successful.
People have to grow up and deal with reality.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Sure, they changed because they were failing when everyone who was playing them ran off to play WoW. They tried to make themselves feel more WoW-like and failed to make the cut. They were not wildly successful after WoW, if they had been, there would have been no reason to change how they did business.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Developers and publishers have far more information on what markets exist than we do. They are also just as familiar with the history of MMORPGs as anyone here, probably more so since they are working in the industry. If every developer except the small, self funded or crowd funded ones are avoiding "old school" games, it's because they know something. The bottom line, regardless of the details why is going to be that they don't see enough revenue coming out of such a game to make developing such a game worthwhile.
It doesn't matter if the market is too small, or too fractured or if dealing with the players requires too many live GMs running the cost of the game up or what. Not enough money will come out compared to the amount of money that has to go into the game(s) to make developing an "old school" game worthwhile.
MMORPG.com reports news on stuff of interest to MMORPG players. They have nothing to do with whether or not a certain type of game gets made.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
+1
The games "old school" gamers want are still out there, they're just not big budget AAA mmos. If they really wanted to show developers that they'd play a game like that, they'd put their money where their mouth is and support the ones that are out there.
Show a developer there is money to be made in todays market and they'll build a game to make money off it. These people want it to be the other way around.
I cant believe this 100%. If they knew more than the players they wouldn't have a huge portion of their games go belly up. We have had more companies go bankrupt, sell out, games fail, get closed down in the past 5 years than the entire existence of mmorpg's. Simple truth is they are trying to gain WOW's fame and fortunes, the fact is WOW came at a perfect time and will never be copied again. Every company tries to copy that game and the market is flooded with these style games. And for most this is all they know and expect every game to be like having fear to try different styles.
Most these new aged games get a huge flock of gamers for a few weeks then die out and jump to the next game. If they knew anything about mmo's they would want longevity and to keep their players for more profits down the road. This isn't the case, and this is why you see more and more mmo companies going under and selling out to larger ones that can suck up a bad game here and there.
Spend 5 years to create a game and die out in a month does not seem logical nor profitable. Game quality just sucks, many people forget how and why WOW became successful.And it did not have a lot to do with the quality of that game, their first month was a disaster and could have been the death of it, many games today that just suffer a day or two of a bad launch usually don't make it long.
I cant believe this 100%. If they knew more than the players they wouldn't have a huge portion of their games go belly up. We have had more companies go bankrupt, sell out, games fail, get closed down in the past 5 years than the entire existence of mmorpg's. Simple truth is they are trying to gain WOW's fame and fortunes, the fact is WOW came at a perfect time and will never be copied again. Every company tries to copy that game and the market is flooded with these style games. And for most this is all they know and expect every game to be like having fear to try different styles.
Most these new aged games get a huge flock of gamers for a few weeks then die out and jump to the next game. If they knew anything about mmo's they would want longevity and to keep their players for more profits down the road. This isn't the case, and this is why you see more and more mmo companies going under and selling out to larger ones that can suck up a bad game here and there.
Spend 5 years to create a game and die out in a month does not seem logical nor profitable. Game quality just sucks, many people forget how and why WOW became successful.And it did not have a lot to do with the quality of that game, their first month was a disaster and could have been the death of it, many games today that just suffer a day or two of a bad launch usually don't make it long.
Knowing more doesn't mean being perfect.
Even so, the games aren't dying out. For all the talk of SWToR's failure, they are still producing new content and the game is still making money with something like half a million subscribers and millions of players. Compare this to pretty much every single "old school" game that's been made since, oh, 2006 or so. None of them has made even a fraction of the money that SWToR has made. Even Age of Conan has been successful in the millions of dollars range and it is a huge flop of a game. It's all about the money. It doesn't matter if ten million players play for a day, or one player plays for ten million days. It's all the same thing when it comes to money.
Eve*, held up as an example of success could not have succeeded had it been funded using venture capital. The payments would have forced the game to shutdown pretty early on. Which is kind of the real answer. For an old school game to get made, they would need to be self funded in some way, whether that's through game revenue and an efficient operation, or whether it's through Crowd Funding. Money is the only thing that stands between starting any game, no matter what kind of game it is.
I'm not sure Eve even counts as an "old school" game. They do many unique things and could almost be considered an MMORPG genre in and of themselves. Also, Eve Online was apparently funded by a board game. Go figure. http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/1/4289098/eve-online-initial-development-funded-by-board-game-featuring
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.