To the OP, the game fell hard for you possibly. To thousands of others it is a wonderful game and has one many, many awards. Also, you say "Quests are about as innovative as WoW's graphics are" and yet you have started a topic with about the same amount of enthusiasm as your statement. Do something original that hasn't been stated over and over again. Suggest how the game you are playing compares to the playstyle of GW2, or how your game has a development team that is continually changing the playing field. Something along those lines.
Anyway, I do understand that the game isn't for everyone, but it didn't fall off hard by any means.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Originally posted by caetftl MMORPGs are not RTS but that doesn't mean certain elements do not translate to one another, someone that has played the most mechanically demanding genre at the highest level knows what takes mechanical skill and what doesn't. People that can't incorporate elements from one genre into another generally aren't very skilled gamers. It would be like saying you can only use the philosophies from Art of War, for actual warfare. Would you mind meeting me on wow in europe or NA with your character with your highest arena rating, as some sort of proof that you actually know what it takes to play WoW at a highly skilled level?
hehehehe
"play WoW at a highly skilled level"
That's almost as funny as "skittled out characters" from another thread. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Hmm, another "GW2 isn't a good game" thread. Pretty it up all you want, but there are so many of these bashing threads on here, they just need to change the name to the site to www.gw2suxandifyoulikeityouareafanboirabblerabblerabble.com.
It is funny, the game is going strong, no matter what the "purist" here say. Read this forum and the game is losing money hand over fist and every server is a ghost town. Luckily everytime I log on, there is a ton of people in LA and I can always eaisly find something to do.
I love it when people use the "you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy a game?" argument to defend the almost complete lack of charecter progression in GW2 (more so at endgame), and try and make the person they are speaking to somehow feel bad and invalidate them. Since when did charecter progressions become synonomous with WoW's tier gear system?....
The answer for the vast majority of MMO players is yes....it would be cool if there was some form of meaningful charecter progression, especially at endgame. There is no shame is saying that you like your charecter becoming stronger or better at certain things over time. Charecter progression in and of itself is the heart of what an MMORPG is. Some do it through constant skill increases/alternate advancement (a la sandboxes such as EVE or AO, or themeparks like EQ2 or AoC), and some do it via gear alone (WoW, Rift, SWTOR). There are many forms of "carrots", some people find certin forms of carrots more enjoyable than others, but the fact reamins that carrots are indeed very fun and keep players playing long term.
There is also another form of progression - you becoming more skilled at the game.
That makes a huge impact on how powerful your character actually is, but somehow that doesn't seem very high in some MMORPG players list.
And gear in GW2 has quite a bit of impact - a level 80 in exotic gear in queensdale will demolish all the mobs and even have a good time against champions (although he needs some of that player skill progression).
Aside from the player skill progression and the gear progression, you have the traits progression. Having access to more traits definitely help (it was a lot easier to complete the queens gauntlet or do dungeons).
There is also the rune and sigil system that make quite a difference, as you can access more powerful runes and sigils later on.
You have the Agony resistance which has some impact in fractals.
In WvWvW you have the WvW mastery system - doing more damage while less damage while using a flame ram or being able to carry 15 supply or use 10 supply in one go instead of 2, can make quite a difference.
Then there is non combat oriented progression like magic find or the achievements points.
Now there is new healing skills for all classes that cost 25 skill points each and of course the original skills already involve a progression, with the promise of more skills and traits in the future.
There is progression but one that can't overwhelm and hide the deficiencies of player skill progression.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by doodphaceOriginally posted by Jean-Luc_PicardOriginally posted by ZzadOriginally posted by reeereeeGw2's leveling system isn't perfect but it's miles ahead of quest grinding. It's amazing that the one thing gw2 did right is at the top of your list of criticisms.
Second that!I found leveling in GW2 a rewarding experience!Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2.You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress.You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress.You choose to gather and craft? You progress.You choose to just explore? You progress.You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress.I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring.Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW.In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out. This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lolPlease be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.
Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.
And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.
As I said, please be serious.
In WoW you have the options of Quests, Dungeons only, PvP only or the Non-Combat Archeology/Gathering route, in which you could craft things as a side show.
In GW2 you can do Quests, perhaps Dungeons only (yes/no anyone?), PvP only or the Non-Combat route of crafting.
There. We've defined it. Great job.
The winner is the person who finds the game they enjoy playing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by reeereeeGw2's leveling system isn't perfect but it's miles ahead of quest grinding. It's amazing that the one thing gw2 did right is at the top of your list of criticisms.
Second that!I found leveling in GW2 a rewarding experience!
Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2.You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress.You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress.You choose to gather and craft? You progress.You choose to just explore? You progress.You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress.I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.
You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring.Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW.In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out. This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lol
Please be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.
Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.
And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.
As I said, please be serious.
In WoW you have the options of Quests, Dungeons only, PvP only or the Non-Combat Archeology/Gathering route, in which you could craft things as a side show.
In GW2 you can do Quests, perhaps Dungeons only (yes/no anyone?), PvP only or the Non-Combat route of crafting.
There. We've defined it. Great job.
The winner is the person who finds the game they enjoy playing.
The PvP side in GW2 needs to be split as well. Now you can level up in sPvP as well as WvW, although they are a bit different where in WvW you're upleveled to 80 but retain your gear and skills as opposed to sPvP which normalizes everyone at 80 with full PvP gear and all skills and traits unlocked regardless of your actual level. Plus exploration gives you a significant amount of experience when you include all aspects of it. Then there's the PvE killing (zerg trains being one example), Dynamic events (not quests), Hearts (more quest-like), etc.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 It fell off because you never actually progress, the game just tries to make you think you're progressing. The button spamming playstyle doesn't help either.
the game fails for you when you are obsessed and addicted to progression and play 23/7.
Play GW2 when you feel like and it's one of the best f2p mmo's out there.
This sounds like Apple. You're (holding) playing it wrong. Did you consider that playing 23/7 is when he feels like playing?
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill
Originally posted by Volkon Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by Jean-Luc_PicardOriginally posted by doodphaceOriginally posted by Jean-Luc_PicardOriginally posted by ZzadOriginally posted by reeereeeGw2's leveling system isn't perfect but it's miles ahead of quest grinding. It's amazing that the one thing gw2 did right is at the top of your list of criticisms.
Second that!I found leveling in GW2 a rewarding experience!Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2.You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress.You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress.You choose to gather and craft? You progress.You choose to just explore? You progress.You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress.I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring.Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW.In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out. This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lolPlease be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.As I said, please be serious. In WoW you have the options of Quests, Dungeons only, PvP only or the Non-Combat Archeology/Gathering route, in which you could craft things as a side show. In GW2 you can do Quests, perhaps Dungeons only (yes/no anyone?), PvP only or the Non-Combat route of crafting. There. We've defined it. Great job. The winner is the person who finds the game they enjoy playing. The PvP side in GW2 needs to be split as well. Now you can level up in sPvP as well as WvW, although they are a bit different where in WvW you're upleveled to 80 but retain your gear and skills as opposed to sPvP which normalizes everyone at 80 with full PvP gear and all skills and traits unlocked regardless of your actual level. Plus exploration gives you a significant amount of experience when you include all aspects of it. Then there's the PvE killing (zerg trains being one example), Dynamic events (not quests), Hearts (more quest-like), etc.
I'm not trying to belittle the effort here, but who gives a cr@p? Does WoW offer a better leveling experience than GW2? The answer is yes, but only for the people who prefer WoW's experience to GW2's experience. For people who prefer GW2's experience, the answer is obviously no. There is no objective answer here.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.
I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1. In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.
I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.
I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1. In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.
I agree. I can count on 1 hand, the people I know who like GW2. I can t even count haw many people wish it was more like GW1. Just no comparison between the 2 IMO.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 It fell off because you never actually progress, the game just tries to make you think you're progressing. The button spamming playstyle doesn't help either.
the game fails for you when you are obsessed and addicted to progression and play 23/7.
Play GW2 when you feel like and it's one of the best f2p mmo's out there.
This sounds like Apple. You're (holding) playing it wrong. Did you consider that playing 23/7 is when he feels like playing?
I don't know exactly how GW2 isn't ok 23/7.
Also, it isn't like progression players in WoW play 23/7 for progression. There is raid locks in place.
It is my opinion that gear based games are the ones trying to fool the players into believing they are progressing, when they are playing exactly the same just with different numbers.
Global cooldown vs no global cooldown is just a different style.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.
I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1. In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.
I agree. I can count on 1 hand, the people I know who like GW2. I can t even count haw many people wish it was more like GW1. Just no comparison between the 2 IMO.
Gameplay wise GW2 is IMO much superior to GW1.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by reeereee Gw2's leveling system isn't perfect but it's miles ahead of quest grinding. It's amazing that the one thing gw2 did right is at the top of your list of criticisms.
Second that!
I found leveling in GW2 a rewarding experience!
Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2.
You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress.
You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress.
You choose to gather and craft? You progress.
You choose to just explore? You progress.
You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress.
I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.
You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring.
Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW.
In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out.
This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lol
Please be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.
Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.
And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.
As I said, please be serious.
I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.
Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:
As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.
So like I said, aside form your player level scaling to the content of a specific zone (you again listed that after i already acknowledged WoW doesnt currently have that), everything you listed is completely viable and used in WoW.
BTW, ending your post with "please be serious", doesn't make my facts any less legitimate, or you any more "right".
I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.
I love it when people use the "you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy a game?" argument to defend the almost complete lack of charecter progression in GW2 (more so at endgame), and try and make the person they are speaking to somehow feel bad and invalidate them. Since when did charecter progressions become synonomous with WoW's tier gear system?....
The answer for the vast majority of MMO players is yes....it would be cool if there was some form of meaningful charecter progression, especially at endgame. There is no shame is saying that you like your charecter becoming stronger or better at certain things over time. Charecter progression in and of itself is the heart of what an MMORPG is. Some do it through constant skill increases/alternate advancement (a la sandboxes such as EVE or AO, or themeparks like EQ2 or AoC), and some do it via gear alone (WoW, Rift, SWTOR). There are many forms of "carrots", some people find certin forms of carrots more enjoyable than others, but the fact reamins that carrots are indeed very fun and keep players playing long term.
There is also another form of progression - you becoming more skilled at the game.
That same statement applies to all of the games on the market with in game charecter progression as well.
My reason for buying the game and ...now not playing is the WvW. The warfare area looks great.But the play is nothing but zerg...and endless running to take and retake and retake the same objectives.It's much like a basketball game to see who can take as many objectives in a certain amount of time..and none of it means or accomplishes anything.
There is no senses of victory...a great defense.....or pride in taking a keep.It's all about numbers and points.
There is no senses of victory...a great defense.....or pride in taking a keep.It's all about numbers and points.
There are tons of great defenses and people take pride in taking and defending their keeps all the time. Just couple weeks ago, Jade Quarry server was able to defend and keep their home keep for 7 days straight against the overwelming force of Blackgate and they took great pride in doing so. Instead of spewing non-sense about WvW, you should go and join your server community (website and TS) to truly understand what is going on in WvW.
Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic. If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together?
Agreed
When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?
I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.
I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.
Ah the "if you don't agree with me, you must not be playing" non-argument now. I'm playing right now, my both WoW accounts are active.
Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:
As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.
The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.
GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.
See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.
They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".
Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic. If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together?
Agreed
When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?
I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.
Are you agreeing, disagreeing, or being sarcastic? Serious question and cause I know we all make mistakes I did in this thread from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing something.
Must of been a feature of another game that your using as an example to agreeing.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".
Please put your straw man away.
I could post pictures of my level 90 characters, or of the new Monk I'm leveling right now, but you would of course still call me a liar and pretend they are fake.
So I'm going to do what must be done with people repeating total misinformation on this forum: use the block list. Because anyone playing both WoW and GW2 knows that what you post is misinformation, intentionally inflating the importance of a feature in one game just to bash or belittle another game.
I will still repeat this undeniable fact for you to think about and for the other readers too:
You do not need 12 days /played to level to 90 with a brand new character in WoW when you do quests and dungeons, unlike the guy you linked who levelled only via gathering/crafting.
It's painfully slow and non efficient, and the regular way (quests+dungeons) is at least 2x faster if you're really slow, 3x faster for the normal player. To the opposite, in GW2, you can get to max level simply through gathering/crafting and it's just as fast (if not faster) than questing and dungeoning.
That's facts. Everything else is misinformation.
No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons). Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2. And as a side note, I dont think that you should be bragging about being able to level ifaster in GW2 than wow with proffs...
And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.
The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.
GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.
See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.
I don't get why people think they should get class levels for crafting. That's what crafting skill levels are for. If you're crafting to become a level 90 rogue crafting is not for you.
No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons). Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2.
And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.
Again, please stop with the straw man argument.
The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.
The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.
Comments
To the OP, the game fell hard for you possibly. To thousands of others it is a wonderful game and has one many, many awards. Also, you say "Quests are about as innovative as WoW's graphics are" and yet you have started a topic with about the same amount of enthusiasm as your statement. Do something original that hasn't been stated over and over again. Suggest how the game you are playing compares to the playstyle of GW2, or how your game has a development team that is continually changing the playing field. Something along those lines.
Anyway, I do understand that the game isn't for everyone, but it didn't fall off hard by any means.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
hehehehe
"play WoW at a highly skilled level"
That's almost as funny as "skittled out characters" from another thread. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Hmm, another "GW2 isn't a good game" thread. Pretty it up all you want, but there are so many of these bashing threads on here, they just need to change the name to the site to www.gw2suxandifyoulikeityouareafanboirabblerabblerabble.com.
It is funny, the game is going strong, no matter what the "purist" here say. Read this forum and the game is losing money hand over fist and every server is a ghost town. Luckily everytime I log on, there is a ton of people in LA and I can always eaisly find something to do.
There is also another form of progression - you becoming more skilled at the game.
That makes a huge impact on how powerful your character actually is, but somehow that doesn't seem very high in some MMORPG players list.
And gear in GW2 has quite a bit of impact - a level 80 in exotic gear in queensdale will demolish all the mobs and even have a good time against champions (although he needs some of that player skill progression).
Aside from the player skill progression and the gear progression, you have the traits progression. Having access to more traits definitely help (it was a lot easier to complete the queens gauntlet or do dungeons).
There is also the rune and sigil system that make quite a difference, as you can access more powerful runes and sigils later on.
You have the Agony resistance which has some impact in fractals.
In WvWvW you have the WvW mastery system - doing more damage while less damage while using a flame ram or being able to carry 15 supply or use 10 supply in one go instead of 2, can make quite a difference.
Then there is non combat oriented progression like magic find or the achievements points.
Now there is new healing skills for all classes that cost 25 skill points each and of course the original skills already involve a progression, with the promise of more skills and traits in the future.
There is progression but one that can't overwhelm and hide the deficiencies of player skill progression.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2. You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress. You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress. You choose to gather and craft? You progress. You choose to just explore? You progress. You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress. I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.
You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring. Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW. In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out. This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lol
Please be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.
Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.
And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.
As I said, please be serious.
In WoW you have the options of Quests, Dungeons only, PvP only or the Non-Combat Archeology/Gathering route, in which you could craft things as a side show.
In GW2 you can do Quests, perhaps Dungeons only (yes/no anyone?), PvP only or the Non-Combat route of crafting.
There. We've defined it. Great job.
The winner is the person who finds the game they enjoy playing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The PvP side in GW2 needs to be split as well. Now you can level up in sPvP as well as WvW, although they are a bit different where in WvW you're upleveled to 80 but retain your gear and skills as opposed to sPvP which normalizes everyone at 80 with full PvP gear and all skills and traits unlocked regardless of your actual level. Plus exploration gives you a significant amount of experience when you include all aspects of it. Then there's the PvE killing (zerg trains being one example), Dynamic events (not quests), Hearts (more quest-like), etc.
Oderint, dum metuant.
This sounds like Apple. You're (holding) playing it wrong. Did you consider that playing 23/7 is when he feels like playing?
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill
Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2. You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress. You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress. You choose to gather and craft? You progress. You choose to just explore? You progress. You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress. I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.
You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring. Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW. In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out. This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lol
Please be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful. Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing. And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub. As I said, please be serious.
In WoW you have the options of Quests, Dungeons only, PvP only or the Non-Combat Archeology/Gathering route, in which you could craft things as a side show. In GW2 you can do Quests, perhaps Dungeons only (yes/no anyone?), PvP only or the Non-Combat route of crafting. There. We've defined it. Great job. The winner is the person who finds the game they enjoy playing.
The PvP side in GW2 needs to be split as well. Now you can level up in sPvP as well as WvW, although they are a bit different where in WvW you're upleveled to 80 but retain your gear and skills as opposed to sPvP which normalizes everyone at 80 with full PvP gear and all skills and traits unlocked regardless of your actual level. Plus exploration gives you a significant amount of experience when you include all aspects of it. Then there's the PvE killing (zerg trains being one example), Dynamic events (not quests), Hearts (more quest-like), etc.
I'm not trying to belittle the effort here, but who gives a cr@p? Does WoW offer a better leveling experience than GW2? The answer is yes, but only for the people who prefer WoW's experience to GW2's experience. For people who prefer GW2's experience, the answer is obviously no. There is no objective answer here.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.
I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1. In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.
I agree. I can count on 1 hand, the people I know who like GW2. I can t even count haw many people wish it was more like GW1. Just no comparison between the 2 IMO.
I don't know exactly how GW2 isn't ok 23/7.
Also, it isn't like progression players in WoW play 23/7 for progression. There is raid locks in place.
It is my opinion that gear based games are the ones trying to fool the players into believing they are progressing, when they are playing exactly the same just with different numbers.
Global cooldown vs no global cooldown is just a different style.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Gameplay wise GW2 is IMO much superior to GW1.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.
Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:
http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything
As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.
So like I said, aside form your player level scaling to the content of a specific zone (you again listed that after i already acknowledged WoW doesnt currently have that), everything you listed is completely viable and used in WoW.
BTW, ending your post with "please be serious", doesn't make my facts any less legitimate, or you any more "right".
lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor
That same statement applies to all of the games on the market with in game charecter progression as well.
My reason for buying the game and ...now not playing is the WvW. The warfare area looks great.But the play is nothing but zerg...and endless running to take and retake and retake the same objectives.It's much like a basketball game to see who can take as many objectives in a certain amount of time..and none of it means or accomplishes anything.
There is no senses of victory...a great defense.....or pride in taking a keep.It's all about numbers and points.
There are tons of great defenses and people take pride in taking and defending their keeps all the time. Just couple weeks ago, Jade Quarry server was able to defend and keep their home keep for 7 days straight against the overwelming force of Blackgate and they took great pride in doing so. Instead of spewing non-sense about WvW, you should go and join your server community (website and TS) to truly understand what is going on in WvW.
When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?
I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.
They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".
Please put your straw man away.
Are you agreeing, disagreeing, or being sarcastic? Serious question and cause I know we all make mistakes I did in this thread from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing something.
Must of been a feature of another game that your using as an example to agreeing.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2. And as a side note, I dont think that you should be bragging about being able to level ifaster in GW2 than wow with proffs...
And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.
Again, please stop with the straw man argument.
I don't get why people think they should get class levels for crafting. That's what crafting skill levels are for. If you're crafting to become a level 90 rogue crafting is not for you.
The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.
The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.