Originally posted by BadSpock People who think WoW is a casual game still, to this day, crack me up.Just because a game can be played casually doesn't mean it is a casual game.So funny how people still don't understand this.Chess can be a casual game. Chess can be a hardcore game.EvE can be a casual game. EvE can be a hardcore game.Farmville can be a casual game. Farmville can be a hardcore game.(bold for emphasis)Casual is a play style, not a game type.Games that only support a hardcore playstyle usually don't do very well.Neither do games that only support a casual playstyle.The really successful and lasting/powerful games support multiple playstyles. Fact.
No, opinion. No one voted you the 'definer of games'. Until that happens, it's just your opinion, one I completely disagree with.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by Dauzqul Originally posted by BadSpock2013, 2012, or 2014- doesn't matter.Far too many bitter old vets - we'll never have another "good" year for MMORPG gaming according to ya'll.Personally? I've gotten a lot of enjoyment (even if short lived) with MMOs like GW2 and FFXIV in 2013, and am currently enjoying WoW again.I'm looking forward to more WoW in 2014, maybe a crack at ESO, but more so D3 expansion and Destiny/The Division (pseudo-MMO ish games)Hopeful for LOTS of great XB1 games this year like Titanfall, Halo 5 (maybe), the before mentioned D3 expansion (hopefully), Destiny, The Division, and (hopefully) great RPG's including Witcher 3, DA3, maybe a new ME, and FFXV.
"bitter old vets" have nothing to do with the negativity. It's 100% the game. The games are either too hardcore (darkfall, mortal online) or too linear / redundant (swtor, virtually every theme park).
+1 to you Dauzqul, well put.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by Dauzqul I didn't realize what a bad year 2013 was in terms of gaming. lol. Just my opinion.
I didnt realize that you mistook your opinion of games as a general consensus of every video gamer in the world.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Wow what a sad year for gaming if FFXIV is the best they could do. Also Wildstar most anticipated? That is pathetic given all the great looking games coming out in the future.
Path of Exile didn't do what D3 failed to do either. They created a deeper game with piss poor gameplay that is just downright boring. D3 has more than its fair share of issues but they still made the game that was more fun and I thought that is what you said the point is?
I have to say I disagree with your awards but I agree with the popular sentiment that it was just a year full of drivel in general.
2013 was abysmal and 2014 isn't looking too hot at this stage, but time will tell.
FFARR - GOTY was an uninspired re-release of a failed title. It no longer blows, and therefore, is game of the year. My what standards.
Wildstar - I can buy most anticipated, I mean, not much to go on right now. But how is it most anticipated 2013 game? Wouldn't it be most anticipated 2014 game? Or were people anticipating the anticipation?
EQL/DAYZ - Rising stars! More like Press Darlings.
PoE - Is not an MMO. Also, it's utter crap. The passive skill tree does nothing but solidify the concept of "illusion of choice". Never have I wasted more time into a game that has less depth, I just kept expecting it to show up. You can spread points in myriad ways, but playstyle is so limited in game it's unbelievable. And they STILL have d-sync issues.
Defiance - Yeah. Um.
EVE - Still being heralded as the best vet MMO? Well, I'm sure CCP's financial records appreciate the sentiment for a game that is supposedly "growing" it keeps making less and less. Weird to me, but whatever. Not to mention their R&D investment into DUST which turned out to be amazing and everybody loves it! Oh wait, no, that's not how it turned out at all. The good news is that people will keep talking about it on the forums as an example of a great sandbox, but they won't bother to play it as usual - mostly because it's an unfun pile of drek, but that shouldn't stop people from constantly praising it.
Pretty slow year for MMORPG's. What was even released this year? To my knowledge the only new MMO we got was XIV:ARR. I'm playing Skyrim and D3. Time for a break from the genre once again.
I agree it was a sad year for MMO. When game of the year is FF14 ( not a bad game, but really nothing great.) and runner up is Neverwinter !! ( which IMO I thought was a horrible horrible game designed only to make things frustrating so you purchase things from the cash shop.) Lets hope 2014 is a better year in the MMO industry.
Far too many bitter old vets - we'll never have another "good" year for MMORPG gaming according to ya'll.
Oh yeah, it's all the fault of the "bitter vets" that developers keep churning out crap year after year, pretty common consensus from all sorts of posters here that 2013 was a bad year for MMORPG's.
Look at your wish list, you are a MMO tourist, dropping in from game to game for short periods of time. If a game doesn't have the design behind it to grab a substantial portion over the long haul, (what the purists want) then they are failures in my eyes.
You are correct though, they may never make a MMORPG designed as I am looking for ever again, but I still have hope that the greater player base will weary of what they've been playing and "mature" if you will into desiring MMORPG's with some more challenging and long term designs.
Many would consider me a "bitter vet" - after all, I tend to be negative and have been playing MMOs since UO pre-Trammel.
I don't think developers have been churning out crap year after year.
There have been some great games and some great expansion to long-running games. 2013 was a year that wasn't filled with all too much, I will agree to that.
Actual releases you have what, FFXIV, Defiance, Neverwinter as the biggest 3? That's not a great year, but lots of people enjoy FFXIV.
2013 was a good year for EvE, was a good year for MMO-lite with PoE, and saw the launch of both the PS4 and XB1- too platforms that are going to have a big impact on MMO gaming.
If I'm a tourist, it's because I am burned out - not because the games are all garbage. There are GREAT MMOs out there to play, like WoW, like EvE, like FFXIV, like Age of Wushu and others...
But this part really get's me-
"You are correct though, they may never make a MMORPG designed as I am looking for ever again, but I still have hope that the greater player base will weary of what they've been playing and "mature" if you will into desiring MMORPG's with some more challenging and long term designs."
So you are saying that you are not getting what you are looking for, and implying that people who disagree with your wishlist are immature "child" gamers that haven't yet elevated themselves to your level.
That, right there, is the real "problem" people on MMORPG REALLY have- old-man "walk uphill both ways" "everything was better before" types.
Yeah, yeah I do think this actually, you'll get here some day, just taking you a bit longer is all.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know, I'm surprised people are so caught off guard that EVE took best veteran MMO. The simple fact is though, that while it still doesn't have nearly the active subscriber base that WoW does, it is one of (if not the only) MMO that has been out for so long to still be growing in both content and player-base. As many complaints as I have for WoW and it's mechanics (For the record I am a launch-vet for WoW and while I have taken many hiatus', I have seen its changes over the years), that does not mean I am biased against it; I have many fond memories and would like to see the game succeed. However, those of you detracting from EVE, I feel, are ignoring some very key facts that I think more than earn it the vet award. Yes, again the game is doing incredibly well considering incrementally positive growth when you consider it is over a decade old (and still mainly on the 'out-dated' mandatory subscription model nonetheless). Also, the efficiency and timeliness that the dev team have been keeping the game fresh is second to none; when their graphics engine became old, they simply swapped it out for a better one. Few other games have ever bothered, typically saving such advancements for their inevitable sequels. Which leads me to another point, I feel, as a vet player of EVE now, that unlike games like WoW, my time there (much to the confusion of some of you, apparently) isn't wasted. How many times will you grind out raids to get a cool new piece of gear, that of which will be made worthless as soon as the new expansion pack rolls out. THAT is a boring waste of time.
Now, I'm not trying to sell EVE to you (If I somehow just did, feel free to click here for an extended trial link ♥). Frankly, I am the first to point out how dreadfully boring the game can be, and have often logged on... Sat there for a minute or two, not sure what to do next, then logged off and played Battlefield. But, the bulk of my argument isn't founded on the gameplay, but rather the style of EVE and its development, and its undeniable success in a game-market that surely would otherwise disfavor it. As far as its... dryness goes, self motivation - and imagination, if you're the RP'ing type - are the nature of sandboxes, and that's where I think that EVE has truly earned it's Vet award and it's place in the halls of fame as being truly remarkable, and in addition to that, when you do have something to do, it is often truly fun and far more immersively-intense than any other MMO I've played. Look how much it has influenced the next gen MMOs; look at how much EQN is focused on, and has been incredibly outspoken these ideas of non-linear sandbox gameplay, and an actively close dev-fanbase relationship driven development style (hallmarks of EVE). I'm not asking anyone to like EVE, not at all. However, I think it has earned much due respect, where as WoW, which will always have a place in my heart, has remained stale and stuck to it's old ways of gear-treadmilling and deceptively linear gameplay, and as a result has been in a steady decline over the past few years.
In the end though, this is not an argument over which game is better or funner. This is a contest about which of the veteran MMOs is doing the best, and if you can't look at the reality of both WoW and EVE (the chief contenders here) and tell me that EVE deserves it more, there's nothing I can do to help you.
I played my 3DS more than any other console. The new Zelda was amazing.
i bought a 3DS last week to try the Zelda game - havent made the time to play it yet tho
in my friends circle, for the obvious reason, the 3ds is called "a 200$ pokemon machine".
X&Y not only are the best of the long running series by a wide margin, they are my pick for the non-mmo RPG of the year.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
People who think WoW is a casual game still, to this day, crack me up.
You can be sure all the tr... err "posters" who repeat over and over again that WoW is a casual game don't have a single up to date heroic raid achievement and generally don't play that game at all anyway. It's just that hating WoW is cool when talking to the kids of their kindergarten courtyard.
a better way to say it would be "wow is a game that can be played by casual and non casual" in my opinion.
the problem with WoW in my mind isnt its casualness but its lack of depth, and the developer's tendency to progress towards less depth as opposed to more (for instance removing the talent trees and with it most of the theorycrafting in the game). lets hope at this time next year we are giving Warlords of Draenor "best expansion" because of the depth it adds to WoW's experience.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Sure was a horrid year for gaming, going by what won the awards. Wildstar, PoE and Eve Online most likely the only ones actually worth being there. (I dont play any of the 3 myself, just going on reading about them and from friends playing).
EVE Online music in video... I approve. I also approve of EVE as best veteran MMO.
Wildstar... sorry, looks terrible to me. I'll need a lot of convincing to play yet another gear treadmill. Speaking of which, TESO has just enough to motivate me to play another gear treadmill. If it truly feels like Skyrim, then I'll probably play it for a few months.
People who think WoW is a casual game still, to this day, crack me up.
You can be sure all the tr... err "posters" who repeat over and over again that WoW is a casual game don't have a single up to date heroic raid achievement and generally don't play that game at all anyway. It's just that hating WoW is cool when talking to the kids of their kindergarten courtyard.
If they dig story about blind guy who killed Deathwing with his guildmates, there is no way you can prove them that there is content which is not so easy...
People who think WoW is a casual game still, to this day, crack me up.
You can be sure all the tr... err "posters" who repeat over and over again that WoW is a casual game don't have a single up to date heroic raid achievement and generally don't play that game at all anyway. It's just that hating WoW is cool when talking to the kids of their kindergarten courtyard.
If they dig story about blind guy who killed Deathwing with his guildmates, there is no way you can prove them that there is content which is not so easy...
Whenever I reached max level on WoW, I unsubbed or played another character. Eventually a friend convinced me to join them on a raid (WoTLK, I don't remember which one). I was so put off by the fact that all I had to do was watch a 5 minute youtube video detailing the boss fights. I'm sorry, but even raiding was too easy, and now I'm back to my cycle of resub with new expansion, hit top level, get bored and unsub, rinse-lather-repeat. The only things making me consider another resub are the PvP and hopes the Warlords of Draenor breaks the monotony that is WoW.
glad PoE is on your list. Loving that game. lost 8 weeks and counting to it so far
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!
Comments
No, opinion. No one voted you the 'definer of games'. Until that happens, it's just your opinion, one I completely disagree with.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
"bitter old vets" have nothing to do with the negativity. It's 100% the game. The games are either too hardcore (darkfall, mortal online) or too linear / redundant (swtor, virtually every theme park).
+1 to you Dauzqul, well put.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I hear what you're saying. I think the term "casual" means something completely different in MMO-language. I think that is where the confusion is.
MMO Dictionary
cas·u·al [kazh-oo-uh
l]
adjective
#1. Stupidly Easy
#2. Not Complex
#3. The Invisible Hand - I'm not talking about economics, but am referring to the Mommy-dev hand that carefully guides me from quest hub to quest hub.
#4. Redundant, e.g., Battlegrounds... the same ones... over and over and over and over and over and over again.
I didnt realize that you mistook your opinion of games as a general consensus of every video gamer in the world.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
What a dismal year 2013 was, even worse that 2012. The only one on the list that I think deserves an award is eve, and I not played that since 2008.
"Just my opinion" was apparently lost on you as you seem to think that means the user who said this means that every gamer thinks this.
Smile
Wow what a sad year for gaming if FFXIV is the best they could do. Also Wildstar most anticipated? That is pathetic given all the great looking games coming out in the future.
Path of Exile didn't do what D3 failed to do either. They created a deeper game with piss poor gameplay that is just downright boring. D3 has more than its fair share of issues but they still made the game that was more fun and I thought that is what you said the point is?
I have to say I disagree with your awards but I agree with the popular sentiment that it was just a year full of drivel in general.
2013 was abysmal and 2014 isn't looking too hot at this stage, but time will tell.
FFARR - GOTY was an uninspired re-release of a failed title. It no longer blows, and therefore, is game of the year. My what standards.
Wildstar - I can buy most anticipated, I mean, not much to go on right now. But how is it most anticipated 2013 game? Wouldn't it be most anticipated 2014 game? Or were people anticipating the anticipation?
EQL/DAYZ - Rising stars! More like Press Darlings.
PoE - Is not an MMO. Also, it's utter crap. The passive skill tree does nothing but solidify the concept of "illusion of choice". Never have I wasted more time into a game that has less depth, I just kept expecting it to show up. You can spread points in myriad ways, but playstyle is so limited in game it's unbelievable. And they STILL have d-sync issues.
Defiance - Yeah. Um.
EVE - Still being heralded as the best vet MMO? Well, I'm sure CCP's financial records appreciate the sentiment for a game that is supposedly "growing" it keeps making less and less. Weird to me, but whatever. Not to mention their R&D investment into DUST which turned out to be amazing and everybody loves it! Oh wait, no, that's not how it turned out at all. The good news is that people will keep talking about it on the forums as an example of a great sandbox, but they won't bother to play it as usual - mostly because it's an unfun pile of drek, but that shouldn't stop people from constantly praising it.
I really am shocked at how bad 2013 was.
Yeah, yeah I do think this actually, you'll get here some day, just taking you a bit longer is all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know, I'm surprised people are so caught off guard that EVE took best veteran MMO. The simple fact is though, that while it still doesn't have nearly the active subscriber base that WoW does, it is one of (if not the only) MMO that has been out for so long to still be growing in both content and player-base. As many complaints as I have for WoW and it's mechanics (For the record I am a launch-vet for WoW and while I have taken many hiatus', I have seen its changes over the years), that does not mean I am biased against it; I have many fond memories and would like to see the game succeed. However, those of you detracting from EVE, I feel, are ignoring some very key facts that I think more than earn it the vet award. Yes, again the game is doing incredibly well considering incrementally positive growth when you consider it is over a decade old (and still mainly on the 'out-dated' mandatory subscription model nonetheless). Also, the efficiency and timeliness that the dev team have been keeping the game fresh is second to none; when their graphics engine became old, they simply swapped it out for a better one. Few other games have ever bothered, typically saving such advancements for their inevitable sequels. Which leads me to another point, I feel, as a vet player of EVE now, that unlike games like WoW, my time there (much to the confusion of some of you, apparently) isn't wasted. How many times will you grind out raids to get a cool new piece of gear, that of which will be made worthless as soon as the new expansion pack rolls out. THAT is a boring waste of time.
Now, I'm not trying to sell EVE to you (If I somehow just did, feel free to click here for an extended trial link ♥). Frankly, I am the first to point out how dreadfully boring the game can be, and have often logged on... Sat there for a minute or two, not sure what to do next, then logged off and played Battlefield. But, the bulk of my argument isn't founded on the gameplay, but rather the style of EVE and its development, and its undeniable success in a game-market that surely would otherwise disfavor it. As far as its... dryness goes, self motivation - and imagination, if you're the RP'ing type - are the nature of sandboxes, and that's where I think that EVE has truly earned it's Vet award and it's place in the halls of fame as being truly remarkable, and in addition to that, when you do have something to do, it is often truly fun and far more immersively-intense than any other MMO I've played. Look how much it has influenced the next gen MMOs; look at how much EQN is focused on, and has been incredibly outspoken these ideas of non-linear sandbox gameplay, and an actively close dev-fanbase relationship driven development style (hallmarks of EVE). I'm not asking anyone to like EVE, not at all. However, I think it has earned much due respect, where as WoW, which will always have a place in my heart, has remained stale and stuck to it's old ways of gear-treadmilling and deceptively linear gameplay, and as a result has been in a steady decline over the past few years.
In the end though, this is not an argument over which game is better or funner. This is a contest about which of the veteran MMOs is doing the best, and if you can't look at the reality of both WoW and EVE (the chief contenders here) and tell me that EVE deserves it more, there's nothing I can do to help you.
in my friends circle, for the obvious reason, the 3ds is called "a 200$ pokemon machine".
X&Y not only are the best of the long running series by a wide margin, they are my pick for the non-mmo RPG of the year.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
a better way to say it would be "wow is a game that can be played by casual and non casual" in my opinion.
the problem with WoW in my mind isnt its casualness but its lack of depth, and the developer's tendency to progress towards less depth as opposed to more (for instance removing the talent trees and with it most of the theorycrafting in the game). lets hope at this time next year we are giving Warlords of Draenor "best expansion" because of the depth it adds to WoW's experience.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
It hasn't been bad for only a year...
Sure was a horrid year for gaming, going by what won the awards. Wildstar, PoE and Eve Online most likely the only ones actually worth being there. (I dont play any of the 3 myself, just going on reading about them and from friends playing).
Lets hope 2014 is way better for gaming!!
EVE Online music in video... I approve. I also approve of EVE as best veteran MMO.
Wildstar... sorry, looks terrible to me. I'll need a lot of convincing to play yet another gear treadmill. Speaking of which, TESO has just enough to motivate me to play another gear treadmill. If it truly feels like Skyrim, then I'll probably play it for a few months.
If they dig story about blind guy who killed Deathwing with his guildmates, there is no way you can prove them that there is content which is not so easy...
Runner Up - World of Warcraft,
Hah
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!