Because it isn't a trial! You can LITERALLY play through the ENTIRE game! They don't stop you at level 25, nor any other level. They don't stop you after a weekends play or any other set time limit. You can play through every story and class to max level!
Free to play means you can play the game without spending money. You CAN play the game. In fact, you can play 8 different stories for NOTHING! Now, if the game is supposed to survive this F2P transition then it has to make money somehow. So they restrict your access to some NON-VITAL parts of the game. You can still enjoy the story, the MAIN POINT of THIS game, without spending anything. If you consider this to be a trial then you will be sorely disappointed through the rest of your life. A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
What isn't fair about this game, SWTOR, is that they even charge those who bought the damn box set, the game, for using UI elements (A point already made by other users in this thread).
Again, the F2P model isn't the best out there. But if anyone thinks it is too restricted then they deserve to be scolded by someone who understands that YOU DON'T GET ANY BLOODY THING FOR FREE!
You might as well learn it now: Nothing in this world is free!
Um, i dont think you are aware of something called an UNLIMITED TRIAL? that means that you can play as much as you want and NOT pay ANY money. Occasionally there will be a game that allows you to play to max level and it is a free trial game, that pretty much describes SWTOR
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
Originally posted by AzureProwerI don't think a single sane person thinks the restrictions on free/preferred players in SWTOR is okay.
I think its ok. And yes i am sane. People need to realise it is like an extended trial and for full game you have to pay 15 bucks a month. No such thing as free in this world.
Yes. How ever. For those that had purchased the game and monetarily supported it since launch until the F2P system hit.
We feel royally pissed off.
The F2P changes announcement was my breaking point for quitting SWTOR. Then deciding to check out the state of the game. It did not encourage me to return.
Even the current subscribers get a raw deal with the introduction of the cash shop.
If you're one of these insane people that allow EA to walk all over you. Well, I'm happy for you. But this is one of the worst payment models of all time.
That is simply not true. Former players do not get cash shop currency and more unlocks. I bought the game at release, subbed until F2P transition and a few months beyond that. When my subscription ran out i received nothing until i resubscribed. Your theory that former players get all these extra things simply because they are former players is not true.
Former players get automatic preferred status. So they do get some extra things simply by being a former player.
Originally posted by AzurePrower
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by AzureProwerI don't think a single sane person thinks the restrictions on free/preferred players in SWTOR is okay.
I think its ok. And yes i am sane. People need to realise it is like an extended trial and for full game you have to pay 15 bucks a month. No such thing as free in this world.
Yes. How ever. For those that had purchased the game and monetarily supported it since launch until the F2P system hit.
We feel royally pissed off.
The F2P changes announcement was my breaking point for quitting SWTOR. Then deciding to check out the state of the game. It did not encourage me to return.
Even the current subscribers get a raw deal with the introduction of the cash shop.
If you're one of these insane people that allow EA to walk all over you. Well, I'm happy for you. But this is one of the worst payment models of all time.
Please say I, not we. I played in beta, bought the collector's edition, and have been subscribed without a break since launch. The only time I even approached maybe feeling royally pissed off is when it became clear the class stories were over for good. And I got over it, their level of success is insufficient to justify the cost of continuing eight separate stories, and blaming them for that would be stupid.
And no, current subscribers do not get a raw deal from the cash shop. The subscriber experience did not change in any material way as a result of free players being present or the cash shop being added. Rather, we received the *option* of purchasing things from the cash shop, in addition to everything we already had, and a monthly allowance of cartel coins to use as we see fit.
Arguing about whether free or preferred players don't get enough is one thing, but trying to argue that the subscriber experience has experienced some substantial negative impact is just stupid.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
SWTOR will hopefully eventually follow SOE's new model. Free-up basically everything and give bonuses for subs (they make enough on micro transactions which are largely cosmetic...and not ridiculous cash grab randoms like SWTOR)
Eq2 has one of the best F2p models now that I've seen, and it used to be as bad as SWTOR.
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
No. That is only a part of the game, you can still continue to play the game, just not those parts.
In a trial, once the trial period is up you cannot play any parts of it at all.
For the record I do think the f2p is quite restrictive, and a bit annoying the way it always has those reward reminders whenever you hand in a quest.
I am unsure if it is a good idea to be that restrictive or not. A few years should give us more information.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
Of course they aren't going to change their policies. For the most part, the people who complain about TOR's Freemium setup fall into one of two categories; people who never played the game, and don't intend to, and the ones who played the game and don't like it anyway, completely separate from the free version's restrictions. It would be stupid for BW to listen to anything either of those groups said. SOE tried to chase the customers who didn't like SWG by fundamentally changing it, how did that work out?
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
The free experience should be sub par. It's free. The whole point is to try to get people to like it just enough to get them to pay for the "real" version, it's like the "first one's free" policy of some drug dealers. If you give way too much in the free version, you are leaving money on the table, and that's just bad business. Actually, TOR's model is far, far too generous. They probably should have given completely unrestricted access through the end of the capital planets, then charged per planet access fees, along with individual fees for each different WZ map, each different FP, each different Op, etc. etc.
And TOR isn't F2P, it's Freemium. That's an important distinction.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
Of course they aren't going to change their policies. For the most part, the people who complain about TOR's Freemium setup fall into one of two categories; people who never played the game, and don't intend to, and the ones who played the game and don't like it anyway, completely separate from the free version's restrictions. It would be stupid for BW to listen to anything either of those groups said. SOE tried to chase the customers who didn't like SWG by fundamentally changing it, how did that work out?
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
The free experience should be sub par. It's free. The whole point is to try to get people to like it just enough to get them to pay for the "real" version, it's like the "first one's free" policy of some drug dealers. If you give way too much in the free version, you are leaving money on the table, and that's just bad business. Actually, TOR's model is far, far too generous. They probably should have given completely unrestricted access through the end of the capital planets, then charged per planet access fees, along with individual fees for each different WZ map, each different FP, each different Op, etc. etc.
And TOR isn't F2P, it's Freemium. That's an important distinction.
Yet TOR is doing the essentially the equivalent as if Microsoft Excel released a free version where you could only use half of the alphabet and only numbers 1-6. They're taking away essential functionality that literally makes or breaks a game. A game doesn't have to only be half working to not require money. Fun sells more than restrictions. Who would rather pay money to make a bad experience good, when they can go and play a game that is a good experience from the start, and then pay money to enhance an already good experience. More people would want to give away their money for a good game than a sub-par experience. Nobody pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. But many people are happy to support a company that provides a good service, on top of the people who buy just out of wanting cool stuff. Paying money for SWTOR doesn't make anything more fun, it just unlocks the essentials that everyone should have to begin with.
IMO, freemium was a horrible introduction to the mmo genre. It's just a show that the genre is going towards bottom lining penny pinchers who don't care about giving a good experience as long as they can make money. There used to be a nice balance of people passionate about giving players a rich experience and also making good money.
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
Of course they aren't going to change their policies. For the most part, the people who complain about TOR's Freemium setup fall into one of two categories; people who never played the game, and don't intend to, and the ones who played the game and don't like it anyway, completely separate from the free version's restrictions. It would be stupid for BW to listen to anything either of those groups said. SOE tried to chase the customers who didn't like SWG by fundamentally changing it, how did that work out?
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
The free experience should be sub par. It's free. The whole point is to try to get people to like it just enough to get them to pay for the "real" version, it's like the "first one's free" policy of some drug dealers. If you give way too much in the free version, you are leaving money on the table, and that's just bad business. Actually, TOR's model is far, far too generous. They probably should have given completely unrestricted access through the end of the capital planets, then charged per planet access fees, along with individual fees for each different WZ map, each different FP, each different Op, etc. etc.
And TOR isn't F2P, it's Freemium. That's an important distinction.
Yet TOR is doing the essentially the equivalent as if Microsoft Excel released a free version where you could only use half of the alphabet and only numbers 1-6. They're taking away essential functionality that literally makes or breaks a game. A game doesn't have to only be half working to not require money. Fun sells more than restrictions. Who would rather pay money to make a bad experience good, when they can go and play a game that is a good experience from the start, and then pay money to enhance an already good experience. More people would want to give away their money for a good game than a sub-par experience. Nobody pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. But many people are happy to support a company that provides a good service, on top of the people who buy just out of wanting cool stuff. Paying money for SWTOR doesn't make anything more fun, it just unlocks the essentials that everyone should have to begin with.
Gotto love how people always tend to speak on behalf of everybody as if they know what millions of players around the world are thinking.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
Of course they aren't going to change their policies. For the most part, the people who complain about TOR's Freemium setup fall into one of two categories; people who never played the game, and don't intend to, and the ones who played the game and don't like it anyway, completely separate from the free version's restrictions. It would be stupid for BW to listen to anything either of those groups said. SOE tried to chase the customers who didn't like SWG by fundamentally changing it, how did that work out?
Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
The free experience should be sub par. It's free. The whole point is to try to get people to like it just enough to get them to pay for the "real" version, it's like the "first one's free" policy of some drug dealers. If you give way too much in the free version, you are leaving money on the table, and that's just bad business. Actually, TOR's model is far, far too generous. They probably should have given completely unrestricted access through the end of the capital planets, then charged per planet access fees, along with individual fees for each different WZ map, each different FP, each different Op, etc. etc.
And TOR isn't F2P, it's Freemium. That's an important distinction.
Yet TOR is doing the essentially the equivalent as if Microsoft Excel released a free version where you could only use half of the alphabet and only numbers 1-6. They're taking away essential functionality that literally makes or breaks a game. A game doesn't have to only be half working to not require money. Fun sells more than restrictions. Who would rather pay money to make a bad experience good, when they can go and play a game that is a good experience from the start, and then pay money to enhance an already good experience. More people would want to give away their money for a good game than a sub-par experience. Nobody pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. But many people are happy to support a company that provides a good service, on top of the people who buy just out of wanting cool stuff. Paying money for SWTOR doesn't make anything more fun, it just unlocks the essentials that everyone should have to begin with.
Gotto love how people always tend to speak on behalf of everybody as if they know what millions of players around the world are thinking.
Alright I'll change that. No sensible person pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. Most just want their functionality back. The rest are either sheep or very, very new to the industry. SWTOR shows us a great example of how some companies are staining the genre. They're doing a disservice to it by making it worse, that's not worth support in good faith. What reasonable decision could lead a person to want to help a company whose product has been intentionally downgraded and made worse, with steeper than ever restrictions?
Alright I'll change that. No sensible person pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. Most just want their functionality back. The rest are either sheep or very, very new to the industry. SWTOR shows us a great example of how some companies are staining the genre. They're doing a disservice to it by making it worse, that's not worth support in good faith.
Functionality back? Even with the F2P/Fremium restriction in place the Warzones/Ops and PvP can easily be mastered with just 2 hotbars. Solo, probably one.
Yet TOR is doing the essentially the equivalent as if Microsoft Excel released a free version where you could only use half of the alphabet and only numbers 1-6. They're taking away essential functionality that literally makes or breaks a game. A game doesn't have to only be half working to not require money. Fun sells more than restrictions. Who would rather pay money to make a bad experience good, when they can go and play a game that is a good experience from the start, and then pay money to enhance an already good experience. More people would want to give away their money for a good game than a sub-par experience. Nobody pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. But many people are happy to support a company that provides a good service, on top of the people who buy just out of wanting cool stuff. Paying money for SWTOR doesn't make anything more fun, it just unlocks the essentials that everyone should have to begin with.
IMO, freemium was a horrible introduction to the mmo genre. It's just a show that the genre is going towards bottom lining penny pinchers who don't care about giving a good experience as long as they can make money. There used to be a nice balance of people passionate about giving players a rich experience and also making good money.
Your analysis of TOR's free offering just isn't accurate. Nothing "essential" is behind a paywall, not even the insignificant paywall to get to preferred status. Extra hotbars are merely a convenience in a game as easy as TOR. Not only could you get from 1-50 and finish your class story with no more than a single hotbar, you could probably do it with half a hotbar.
The way you are choosing to define "essential" illustrates the fundamental problem of the bad attitude of many free players. "Don't charge me for what I want, charge the other guy for what he wants."
And I have to disagree about Freemium, for two simple reasons; one, it is better for a game to continue being available than for it to shut down because then the people who love it, whatever that number may be, get to continue playing it. Two, it is better for a game to have enough revenue to expand than not to have enough revenue to expand. The "willing to sub" portion of the MMO market has become too fragmented for any new game to prosper long term on subs alone, too fragmented for most of them to even achieve long term survival on subs alone. Freemium is the difference between life support or death and having an organ transplant then leading a long, healthy life.
Or would you honestly prefer it if the lifecycle of MMOs was to release, rise, fall, and die all within a two year span? If that were the system, how long do you think it would take budgets to get slashed and the products to fall to a quality level where you don't even want to finish the first month?
EDIT: Also, TOR's experience was never downgraded and made worse. The original experience required a sub. You still can sub, and if you do, you get every bit of that original experience. The free experience is an offering that did not exist until the freemium conversion, so unless you can point to something free players got at some point which they no longer do, it's just dishonest and inaccurate to talk about being "downgraded."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by CalvenThat is simply not true. Former players do not get cash shop currency and more unlocks. I bought the game at release, subbed until F2P transition and a few months beyond that. When my subscription ran out i received nothing until i resubscribed. Your theory that former players get all these extra things simply because they are former players is not true.
I think where the confusion over cartel coins comes in, is when the game initially went F2P, previous players were given an amount of Cartel Coins based on how long they had been subscribed for, and automatic preferred status. Those that then continued to subscribe, were given 500 cartel coins every month, with an additional 100 cartel coins every month if they also had an authenticator.
That's not where all the confusion comes from. Former subscribers, who spend no additional money start with 4 action slot bars, not six. Being a former subscriber also comes with cartel coins now, just like it did when the F2P transition occurred. If Calven did not get the extra slots, bag space and cartel coins, then either something is wrong with their account, they did something wrong, or they are lying.
**
However, going from being a subscriber to being a "Preferred Member" is going to feel restrictive, because it is. The game may not even be fun to play. Former subscribers are not going to get everything they had before, and then some. They will have less than they had before, but more than people who have never subscribed to the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
Well, the maximum allowed level is the max level in TOR, and there is no time limit. So it is not a trial, by your definition.
Free is suppose to mean free. I've never played SWTOR and I never will but as buttoned up as OP described it I would call that a trial. Shouldn't advertise your game as free if it isn't.
Originally posted by Jemcrystal Free is suppose to mean free. I've never played SWTOR and I never will but as buttoned up as OP described it I would call that a trial. Shouldn't advertise your game as free if it isn't.
It's a good thing they advertise the game as Free To Play instead of Free then.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If you pay or subscribe to SWTOR, that does not make you a "sheep". If you look at my post history, I have been very vocal about why SWTOR never lived up to its initial expectations. With that said, I recently resubbed for the following reasons:
1) I am a raider first and foremost, and seeing as I recently had a kid, and therefore no time to raid, I was looking for a game that had actually hard trinity small group content (IE: dungeons). SWTOR imo, is the best choice for that, as their dungeon bosses even have enrage timers for example.
2) It has the best leveling experiance of any MMO that I have ever played, IMHO.
3) ...and here is where this post ties into the OP's inital one....SWTOR isn't free to play, its free to try out. If you want to experiance all of the content and rewards, you do have to pay. With that said, im not implying its a bad thing....the game in its current state is well worth a 15$ / month subscription. Not only that, but Bioware isnt even tyring to hide the fact that their free play is a trial only....This is their add on IGN as of this morning:
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
Pretty much everything i listed
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
Well, the maximum allowed level is the max level in TOR, and there is no time limit. So it is not a trial, by your definition.
yea, it is a trial by my definiton. some games have an unlimited trial(like WoW) and i consider SWTOR to be a trial not Free-to-Play
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
A trial is where you are allowed access to a limited part of the game for, sometimes, a limited amount of time. When the time is up, or when you have reached the maximum allowed level, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING. That is a trial.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
Well, the maximum allowed level is the max level in TOR, and there is no time limit. So it is not a trial, by your definition.
yea, it is a trial by my definiton. some games have an unlimited trial(like WoW) and i consider SWTOR to be a trial not Free-to-Play
Last time I checked Wow was only free to lvl 20. 20 out of 100 or so levels is the opposite of unlimited.
Swtor lets you play till max level with every class. You are limited in coin and chat and some other things but not in what you can play.
So no it isn't a trial. You can play till max level free.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No they are not, if you don't like it leave, if you do pay for it.
It is quite simple; pay for it if you like it. If this is a problem for you then you are likely to be the problem in most situations.
I remember seeing Hugh Laurie once being interviewed, and he said if you cannot see the wanker in the room, it must be you. I think that most players who want something for nothing cannot see the wanker in the room.
I'd say no but mainly if one is willing to pay a bit here and there for unlocks but then its no longer truly free as you'd paid something rather than nothing. However, in my opinion, you don't really need to pay alot to get the full extent of this game and enjoy it. Although I would have to say there are better F2P packages out there, SWTOR does have some pretty lame reasons to pay, such as extra hotbars and such.
nah i think the free kids on swtor have a "im entitled cause im free" persona. and its annoying. you get what you pay for. why do you guys continue to expect to be on the level of paying customers when you haven't paid at all? wtf all you gotta do is by ONE thing and you arent f2p anymore.. you cant be serious. youre not entitled to "free game" IMO it devalues the game to allow you people to play. The game wouldve been much better off to go with a smaller group of subs who pay their 15$ a month. Some games are built for F2p and it works for them.. SWTOR only went this route it seems out of panic. I am still a sub in hopes they are going to use my money to better the game. Hell even the preferred access people have some say so cause at least they care enough to spend money.. at the end whatever your reason to buy cartel stuff you are helping the game dev with your $ so maybe in the future the game gets better.. the option to play 100% free is only to let you try the game. you try it.. TRY.. like a sample at the grocery store. you dont take a sample of yogurt then demand they give you a full carton of yogurt for FREE.. wtf...
gtfoh you f2p people need to shut the hell up and enjoy the damn show.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Comments
Um, i dont think you are aware of something called an UNLIMITED TRIAL? that means that you can play as much as you want and NOT pay ANY money. Occasionally there will be a game that allows you to play to max level and it is a free trial game, that pretty much describes SWTOR
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
Yes. How ever. For those that had purchased the game and monetarily supported it since launch until the F2P system hit.
We feel royally pissed off.
The F2P changes announcement was my breaking point for quitting SWTOR. Then deciding to check out the state of the game. It did not encourage me to return.
Even the current subscribers get a raw deal with the introduction of the cash shop.
If you're one of these insane people that allow EA to walk all over you. Well, I'm happy for you. But this is one of the worst payment models of all time.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Please say I, not we. I played in beta, bought the collector's edition, and have been subscribed without a break since launch. The only time I even approached maybe feeling royally pissed off is when it became clear the class stories were over for good. And I got over it, their level of success is insufficient to justify the cost of continuing eight separate stories, and blaming them for that would be stupid.
And no, current subscribers do not get a raw deal from the cash shop. The subscriber experience did not change in any material way as a result of free players being present or the cash shop being added. Rather, we received the *option* of purchasing things from the cash shop, in addition to everything we already had, and a monthly allowance of cartel coins to use as we see fit.
Arguing about whether free or preferred players don't get enough is one thing, but trying to argue that the subscriber experience has experienced some substantial negative impact is just stupid.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Just wanted to point something out . I have 3+ Perfect World games installed right now, and as far as I can remember I haven't had to pay to unlock quest rewards,increases to levels on my toons,new areas, new content,hiding costumes slots, etc. And even though they do sell dyes, they seem to do the dye system a lot better.
They might not be the best game publisher out there (i'll give ya that XD ) but they are far , far less restrictive than SWtOR ever would dream of being. There could've been so many things EA (not Bioware, they don't exist since the doctors left) could have done better. But with their own paying customer base (remember it has been noted that subs spend more cash than free players) throw an outrageous amount of cash to them, I don't for see them changing any policy what so ever.
Exactly. It's a shoddy business model to scale down and give a sub-par experience to the F2P market. "Want to play for free? Well you're getting the 0.5 version missing a lot of essential game functions."
Plenty of F2P games have better systems where you get the full experience for free, and people who like the game are happy to buy from the cash shop because they enjoy the game... That's very different than giving you crappy restrictions and saying you have to PAY money just to ENJOY the game. SWTOR makes money through heavy restrictions, while decent F2P makes money by providing incentive through fun.
Good management takes into account the money they make and the enjoyability of the game. This path can make for a successful F2P model. I think EA is just too amateur with the F2P market to realize this, so they went with the route of giving players hell unless they cough up dough for their investors.
Sort of like the PVP and currency restrictions?
No. That is only a part of the game, you can still continue to play the game, just not those parts.
In a trial, once the trial period is up you cannot play any parts of it at all.
For the record I do think the f2p is quite restrictive, and a bit annoying the way it always has those reward reminders whenever you hand in a quest.
I am unsure if it is a good idea to be that restrictive or not. A few years should give us more information.
The free experience should be sub par. It's free. The whole point is to try to get people to like it just enough to get them to pay for the "real" version, it's like the "first one's free" policy of some drug dealers. If you give way too much in the free version, you are leaving money on the table, and that's just bad business. Actually, TOR's model is far, far too generous. They probably should have given completely unrestricted access through the end of the capital planets, then charged per planet access fees, along with individual fees for each different WZ map, each different FP, each different Op, etc. etc.
And TOR isn't F2P, it's Freemium. That's an important distinction.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Yet TOR is doing the essentially the equivalent as if Microsoft Excel released a free version where you could only use half of the alphabet and only numbers 1-6. They're taking away essential functionality that literally makes or breaks a game. A game doesn't have to only be half working to not require money. Fun sells more than restrictions. Who would rather pay money to make a bad experience good, when they can go and play a game that is a good experience from the start, and then pay money to enhance an already good experience. More people would want to give away their money for a good game than a sub-par experience. Nobody pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. But many people are happy to support a company that provides a good service, on top of the people who buy just out of wanting cool stuff. Paying money for SWTOR doesn't make anything more fun, it just unlocks the essentials that everyone should have to begin with.
IMO, freemium was a horrible introduction to the mmo genre. It's just a show that the genre is going towards bottom lining penny pinchers who don't care about giving a good experience as long as they can make money. There used to be a nice balance of people passionate about giving players a rich experience and also making good money.
Gotto love how people always tend to speak on behalf of everybody as if they know what millions of players around the world are thinking.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Alright I'll change that. No sensible person pays money to become premium in SWTOR because they want to support the company. Most just want their functionality back. The rest are either sheep or very, very new to the industry. SWTOR shows us a great example of how some companies are staining the genre. They're doing a disservice to it by making it worse, that's not worth support in good faith. What reasonable decision could lead a person to want to help a company whose product has been intentionally downgraded and made worse, with steeper than ever restrictions?
Functionality back? Even with the F2P/Fremium restriction in place the Warzones/Ops and PvP can easily be mastered with just 2 hotbars. Solo, probably one.
Your analysis of TOR's free offering just isn't accurate. Nothing "essential" is behind a paywall, not even the insignificant paywall to get to preferred status. Extra hotbars are merely a convenience in a game as easy as TOR. Not only could you get from 1-50 and finish your class story with no more than a single hotbar, you could probably do it with half a hotbar.
The way you are choosing to define "essential" illustrates the fundamental problem of the bad attitude of many free players. "Don't charge me for what I want, charge the other guy for what he wants."
And I have to disagree about Freemium, for two simple reasons; one, it is better for a game to continue being available than for it to shut down because then the people who love it, whatever that number may be, get to continue playing it. Two, it is better for a game to have enough revenue to expand than not to have enough revenue to expand. The "willing to sub" portion of the MMO market has become too fragmented for any new game to prosper long term on subs alone, too fragmented for most of them to even achieve long term survival on subs alone. Freemium is the difference between life support or death and having an organ transplant then leading a long, healthy life.
Or would you honestly prefer it if the lifecycle of MMOs was to release, rise, fall, and die all within a two year span? If that were the system, how long do you think it would take budgets to get slashed and the products to fall to a quality level where you don't even want to finish the first month?
EDIT: Also, TOR's experience was never downgraded and made worse. The original experience required a sub. You still can sub, and if you do, you get every bit of that original experience. The free experience is an offering that did not exist until the freemium conversion, so unless you can point to something free players got at some point which they no longer do, it's just dishonest and inaccurate to talk about being "downgraded."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
That's not where all the confusion comes from. Former subscribers, who spend no additional money start with 4 action slot bars, not six. Being a former subscriber also comes with cartel coins now, just like it did when the F2P transition occurred. If Calven did not get the extra slots, bag space and cartel coins, then either something is wrong with their account, they did something wrong, or they are lying.
**
However, going from being a subscriber to being a "Preferred Member" is going to feel restrictive, because it is. The game may not even be fun to play. Former subscribers are not going to get everything they had before, and then some. They will have less than they had before, but more than people who have never subscribed to the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well, the maximum allowed level is the max level in TOR, and there is no time limit. So it is not a trial, by your definition.
It's a good thing they advertise the game as Free To Play instead of Free then.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Problem is, after being on this and other MMO sites for a few years you realize not a lot of MMO gamers are of Sane Mind.
Read sig.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
If you pay or subscribe to SWTOR, that does not make you a "sheep". If you look at my post history, I have been very vocal about why SWTOR never lived up to its initial expectations. With that said, I recently resubbed for the following reasons:
1) I am a raider first and foremost, and seeing as I recently had a kid, and therefore no time to raid, I was looking for a game that had actually hard trinity small group content (IE: dungeons). SWTOR imo, is the best choice for that, as their dungeon bosses even have enrage timers for example.
2) It has the best leveling experiance of any MMO that I have ever played, IMHO.
3) ...and here is where this post ties into the OP's inital one....SWTOR isn't free to play, its free to try out. If you want to experiance all of the content and rewards, you do have to pay. With that said, im not implying its a bad thing....the game in its current state is well worth a 15$ / month subscription. Not only that, but Bioware isnt even tyring to hide the fact that their free play is a trial only....This is their add on IGN as of this morning:
Pretty much everything i listed
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
yea, it is a trial by my definiton. some games have an unlimited trial(like WoW) and i consider SWTOR to be a trial not Free-to-Play
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
Last time I checked Wow was only free to lvl 20. 20 out of 100 or so levels is the opposite of unlimited.
Swtor lets you play till max level with every class. You are limited in coin and chat and some other things but not in what you can play.
So no it isn't a trial. You can play till max level free.
No they are not, if you don't like it leave, if you do pay for it.
It is quite simple; pay for it if you like it. If this is a problem for you then you are likely to be the problem in most situations.
I remember seeing Hugh Laurie once being interviewed, and he said if you cannot see the wanker in the room, it must be you. I think that most players who want something for nothing cannot see the wanker in the room.
nah i think the free kids on swtor have a "im entitled cause im free" persona. and its annoying. you get what you pay for. why do you guys continue to expect to be on the level of paying customers when you haven't paid at all? wtf all you gotta do is by ONE thing and you arent f2p anymore.. you cant be serious. youre not entitled to "free game" IMO it devalues the game to allow you people to play. The game wouldve been much better off to go with a smaller group of subs who pay their 15$ a month. Some games are built for F2p and it works for them.. SWTOR only went this route it seems out of panic. I am still a sub in hopes they are going to use my money to better the game. Hell even the preferred access people have some say so cause at least they care enough to spend money.. at the end whatever your reason to buy cartel stuff you are helping the game dev with your $ so maybe in the future the game gets better.. the option to play 100% free is only to let you try the game. you try it.. TRY.. like a sample at the grocery store. you dont take a sample of yogurt then demand they give you a full carton of yogurt for FREE.. wtf...
gtfoh you f2p people need to shut the hell up and enjoy the damn show.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.