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Early Access/Kick Starters And The Potential Effects On The Industry!
NextGem
Member Posts: 42
Gone are the days of having to go to a bank to submit a business proposal outlining specifically your intentions and having to prove you are able to accomplish such a plan. There regulations on how games are being developed are most definitly being effected!
I am mixing a few things in this topic, only because the industry is mixing them as well. Or failing to combine the necessary components to create a great game or gaming company. There is a difference between "A game in developement that is in early access" and "A gaming company developing an early access game" This is where I believe a lot of the issues arise from.
While it is possible for a developer/developement team to create a "Great Game" it is a very rare occurence when not understanding every aspect of the industry. Developers need to be backed by a company that has more than just a community management team and a developement team. You need to have Management, Research and Development, Customer Relations, Financing and many other aspects that not even I know enough about to go into full detail.
This is why I have come here to post this thread. I know that the MMORPG community is comprised of all sorts of opinions. They range from Developers to Players, White Collar to Blue Collar, Business professionals to McDonald employees.
And here we go, let the fun begin! I look forward to hearing all of your opinions on this matter!
Edit: I have edited this topic in order to breed a healthier debate! Thanks goes out to those of you who were able to read past the title and actually give constructive critisizm.
Below are some awesome questions regarding this topic that could expand the depth of this debate
Originally posted by FoeHammerJT
Will KickStarter/Crowd Funding improve the MMO Industry?
Do you agree that Kickstarter is having a detrimental impact on MMO gaming by allowing a developer to "cash out" before delivering a product?
What will the long term implications be if crowd funding successfully allows a developer do dodge publishers?
Do the players really know what they want: Will Crowd Funding improve the quality of games or will chaos ensue?
If Kickstarter funded games collapse in 2015, what will the industry look like afterwards?
Comments
Complete nonsense just based on the fact that the industry has become stagnant thanks to corporate control forcing companies to make clones with little to no innovation in hopes to create another WoW.
Known GREAT game makers like Richard Garriott are turning to kickstarter to break the grip non game makers have over the making of games while average ones like Matt Firor are sticking with corporate backing to make me to themepark hand holding non innovative piles of crap that we have seen a dozen times already.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
No to both.
Kickstarter is sound in concept and gives full control to the creator(not investors or executives) but the real problem is that it is flooded with amateurs with more ambition than talent.
When Kickstarter is used by professionals that can actually deliver on their promises(or anything at all) it is a viable medium for funding.
Early Access? Why is this here? People getting to play games before it is officially released is destroying the video game industry? Little over dramatization there.
I included early access in the title and the discussion because in my opinion it is another viable method of getting funding for your game. In theory a company can release a game and call it early access when it is barely playable/Alpha stage in order to generate the money needed to continue developement. I am not implying that the testing stage of early access needs to be discussed or that testing a game does not have its positive side. Nor am I throwing every early access into the same wagon which you might read from the title. I am simply not that well versed when it comes to these types of things which is why the title may be a little off-putting. Regardless I think it does somewhat have an effect on a developers ability to fund his game throughout the development process
early access to games has been available in the MMO industry from practically day one, with coveted "closed beta and open beta" invites they have given players the opportunity to trial games before they are released.
I would actually complain more about steams green light than kickstarter as it seems to be the norm for "indie" developers to produce 2d 8bit style gaming as innovative.
I think kickstarter works well for individuals who do have access to professional development teams, look at elite dangerous they had access to the people to develop the game and I suspect they were working on elite dangerous for a long time but were unable to get the go ahead from "upper management" remember most companies want to make money and kickstarter takes the risk away from them.
If you kickstart a project and get enough funding to support that product till release then that's great but it also shows the management that there is a market for niche products and that they don't have to keep producing the next COD every single year or a new fifa game with updated names of players and a bit of extra eye candy.
remember kickstarter projects are started by people who want to produce something most kickstarters require further funding to finish the project and have clear goals. If your signing up to a kickstarter project without clear goals and time lines then your throwing money down the sink. Do some research check that what they have produced is valid.
I would rather kickstarter a project and loose money than pay top dollar for a AAA title that's a pile of crap (X-rebirth)
Your telling me companies do not listen to the majority of potential customers on ideas and ways of improving/changing the game in alpha/beta?
That why we get clones IMO, the vocal majority in alphas and betas being vocal and the developers relaying that information on to the suits.
FireFall is a prime example of that. PvP focused game now changing to PvE because that's what the majority wants. As that is where the $$ is.
The people who get involved in alpha/beta stages are the problem, bunch of nobodies with an opinion.
Suits listen to gamers, otherwise there products wouldn't sell. What other form of business do you know where the suits don't listen?
That excuse is really beyond a joke now.
I guess I will hold my opinion until the Kickstarter games start releasing or never come to fruition. IMO some will be a huge success while others fail. We will see tho.
Personally I do not contribute to KS projects. I will gladly pay for and support a released product, just not pay for an idea that may or may not happen. But thats just me, many people feel otherwise.
Firefall was never PVP focused. It was instanced deathmatch focused.
Both good points, I think that the kickstarter program does have its upsides. My concern is really for the developers who have a great idea but have no idea on how to go about executing said idea. I also am quite tired of the rinse and repeat business model that a lot of AAA companies go by. However they have there customer base as well. An example would be the AAA sport game, and shooter genres. C.O.D./Halo/Madden/Tiger Woods all have been following this method in my opinion but they are extremely successful in doing so.
No, it was even meant to be an e-sport at one point. For various reasons along the way this was dropped(the last one being that they dumped a whacking great grind infront of the pvp)
Kickstarter and early access have been a savior of the gaming industry for me. It has completely transformed my gaming experience for the better...MUCH better.
That said, as soon as someone like EA starts to do early access it might go to crap.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Your opinion is wrong.
Look at the MMO industry at each stage.
Stage 1 had UO, EQ1, AC1, AO, Lineage, SWG and DaoC
Each of those games outside of EQ1 and DaoC were vastly different from each other. Game companies saw that EQ1 and DaoC were similar at its core (D&D based) with one slight focus that was different, RvR. The core design was looked at as popular because both games had a decent sized playerbase while radically different ones like AC1 and AO did not. This set the path for stage 2.
EQ2, AC2, WoW, GW1, Lineage 2, Ryzom, FF11, Runescape
The clone wars has begun. EQ2, AC2, WoW, Lineage 2 all based off of EQ 1 and DaoC core designs. runescape was a browser game, Ryzom was a flop at first with FF11 being looked at as a console MMO. It became CLEAR that if you wanted to make money you need to follow the clone design.....to big companies.
Stage 2 hasn't ended yet because for a stage to end, something needs to come along and end the current cycle.
Or wait, you are going to tell me that Asherons Call fans ASKED for it to be made like AC2?!? Did SWG fans ASK for it to be made more like WoW?!?
Again, your opinion is wrong because its lacking in anything remotely factual. You have a RIGHT to it, but just because you can have an opinion doesn't mean its right.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Professionals do not need crowd funding. We're basically buying the materials and paying for the finished product. How can you be a company when you invest almost 0? customers invest, customers buy.
Are early acess/Kick starter games destroying the industry? Um ONLY if your are EA or one of these other d-bag publishers.
Iv sunk more time in the past week into Rust ,Starbound & Dayz than i have into AC4 or BF4 in a month. I find myself looking more foward to steam and these "Kick starter/indie games" than the AAA Blockbusters. I really love what steam has done with this whole greenlight thing. Most if not all of these so called "unfinished/Alpha" games are better than the Big release rehashed finished garbage gaming companys have been forcing down our throats.
Aloha Mr Hand !
Your thread title is quite frankly both the most retarded and histrionic thing I've read recently. These funding methods offer an alternative to traditional game financing. They don't destroy or harm traditional game funding models unless you see the possibility of competition as harmful (in which case you would be more at home in the former USSR or Cuba).
Kickstarter is the best thing ever to happen to game development because it gives indie devs the option to make games which would never get funding otherwise. Some of these games will probably be very good. I'm sure the next Minecraft phenomenon will come out of Kickstarter. Of course that doesn't mean that every Kickstarter project is worth your money but many of them are and why you'd just want none of them to exist is something I honestly don't understand.
I am completely against kickstarted and early access. Lets start with early access.
Early Accesss
I wouldnt pay for a half built TV or any other mechanical device so why would software be any different. Even Microsoft which monetizes everything let you test newer versions of windows with no investment. Why are PC games so different. Testing something is a boon to the company and yet they are monetizing it? I do not pay for frustration and I do not pay someone so I can attempt to improve their product. Just like with the automation of the auto industry this exists to not only cut jobs but to increase revenue. Pay real testers to test.
Kickstarter
Kickstarter should be set up as any other investment and the people you invest should get some sort of return. Here invest in my new electric car idea and when they are sold I will sell you one at a discount, sounds great huh. This shit reminds me of tithing. Lets round up all the people with less income then have them donate a portion of their salary to us and lets promise them entrance to heaven or a new video game. Brilliant scam this is.
Kickstarter should be a tool to gather investors. This could allow people of lower income to invest in a project that they deem worthy and see some form of return if the project is a success. Richard Garriott does not need your donations. He is not some poor man with a grand idea that cant see it to fruition due to being penniless.
I was wondering when the personal attacks would come. It was just a matter of time. The reason for the title being worded the way it is, is simple. It is a debate that a large majority of forum members are having and it brings out a passion in the people posting that a generic title might not. Asking the question and stating it as a fact are two completely opposite things. My opinion is a mixture of the two and I can hear both sides of the debate and relate to them without taking personal shots.
The question is are you going to add something to the discussion or are you going to come in and simply show your lack of intelligence by not being able to give your opinion, while at the same time respecting others.
Good points,
The early access usually means you are paying to get that access it does not include games that offer beta giveaways, like the ones that are advertized on the contest section of this site. Hence the reason it is includeed in the discussion, it helps fund developement, pretty simple.
I would love to see the kickstarter model start to maybe give shares to the participants, kind of like a stockmarket scenario. How this would actually be able to be implemented because of the minor donation that most people give I have not a clue.
What is this industry that you speak of? F2P McDonald's variations on mmo content?
This could be the reason why you GET THE GAME WITH ANY DONATION OF $45 OR MORE. And no, Garriott is not a billionaire that can toss around 100 million like its nothing.
In fact, many of the best kickstarters have setups like that. The more you donate the more you get out of it. Jebus you guys are amazing uninformed.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/