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The fact that this game is under NDA says more about the state of the game than anyone breaking the
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And every year it's the same ol' sh.
*Game allows larger public into (open/closed) beta
*Unhappy players start warning people
*Fans refer to them as trolls
*The so-called trolls start calling the fans by all kinds of names
*Game launches
*Record-breaking sales / log-ins / concurrent players
*No-life players start reaching end-game pretty fast
*Worse stories start coming out
*Fans rise up again
*Months pass, game slowly loses players
*More bad stories are told about how it really is in the game and that it isn't worth the time
*After some time game starts losing subs
*Subs drop below the happy-investors-line so alternative payment methods are announced
*New game allows larger public into (open/closed) beta
*Repeat
Nothing changes.
Actually one really big thing is changing.
The games are losing players faster and faster and turning to those "alternative payment methods" in record times.
So, the games are getting worse and the fanboys are doing more and more damage by not allowing those with actual gripes to be heard making it so nothing gets done about it. Raph Koster touched on that with his article denouncing fanboys for making things appear to be OK when they are in fact, not.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
LOL, talk too a dev and you will know how wrong you are and how right I am. Even when some areas of content and fixed in the game and polished enough for release the marketing team will say, nope you cant talk about that yet. Why? Telling fans about say your crafting system before your combat system could give people the idea you are a different game then you are making. Or sets of info needs too be released at once for people to get the idea why one part of the game is designed one way or another. All info on new MMOs is set by the marketing dept. Thats as old school MMO knowledge as it comes. After MMOing for 15 years... this I know as a fact.
You call them fanboys, but what is wrong with somebody who likes the game. They are not fanboys just because they like a game and have interest in it. What is wrong with somebody wanting to just log on the forum of a game they like and talk about the game with out people who don't play the game bashing it. There are plenty of games that I do not like and not one time ever have I went on their forums and talked about how bad it is. If you don't like a game then go on forums of games that you do like and talk about them. If you don't like any games out there then that is YOU problem considering there is a 100 MMOs out there to play.
*Game allows larger public into (open/closed) beta
*Unhappy players start warning people
*Fans refer to them as trolls
*The so-called trolls start calling the fans by all kinds of names
*Game launches
*Record-breaking sales / log-ins / concurrent players
*No-life players start reaching end-game pretty fast
*Worse stories start coming out
*Fans rise up again
*Months pass, game slowly loses players
*More bad stories are told about how it really is in the game and that it isn't worth the time
*After some time game starts losing subs
*Subs drop below the happy-investors-line so alternative payment methods are announced
*New game allows larger public into (open/closed) beta
*Repeat
Nothing changes.
Up to *Record-breaking sales / log-ins / concurrent players
you where spot on.
To sum it up, ESO will have allot of box sales, simply because of the reputation that Bethesda has and the fact it is a Elder Scrolls game, it will break new records (mmo records) in the first month and then it will simply be forgotten.
Call me a pessimist but that's how i foresee it, what a shame, i just hope Bethesda will recover from it.
Not really, most fail stories by fans words are winning games. SWToR being one of them. They are holding numbers. Servers they have are full. New content and expansions and free content as well. There reports say they are making money. Same can be said about a lot of MMOs, that MMO fans call a fail. Then you have grand wins like EVE and WoW. EQ, EQ2 breaking records still on how long they are out and still making money. MMOers are too quick to judge a game that is not perfect off the bat. Depth in MMOs takes time and MMO hoppers are never around long enough too see the really good stuff.
I agree we need to use nicer terms when dealing with other people. Which is why I used the word 'fans'.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with somebody wanting to just log on the forum of a game they like and talk about the game buuuuuut...here's where I think differently of the bashing.
What a fan might see as bashing, I see as passionately trying to discuss a game's shortcomings by people who did play the game. The real trolls you can count on one hand and I've never had any trouble blocking them out mentally or via the forums.
The former do stop posting and the forums become pretty much devoid of activity. Keep an eye out for that. It always goes the same way.
Also, these forums are open to the public. All discussions are welcomed here and that's why this is the place to be if one wants to view both sides of the story.
If one wants to log on to visit their favourite game's forums without anyone arguing about any aspect of the game...then it is my belief that that person is in the wrong place.
The official forums of a game are the place to be if one wants to avoid all dissenting commentary.
I like being pessimist but sometimes hype does get to me. I do think this is a tad pessimistic
It might be that it is forgotten because of all the other shiny new toys launching this year.
Umm, Raph Koster called them that. But then again, so do I. And the question has a flip side. What is wrong with somebody that is either just pointing out the flaws in a game or doesn't like it. They are not "haters" just because they think a game isn't perfect, or wants it to be better or even doesn't like the game at all.
A designer is a BUSINESSMEN and any businessmen that does not want to know what is wrong with their product, or the reason why a consumer don't like their product.......is a fool doomed to eventually lose their business.
The biggest difference between a fanboy and a non-fanboy is that one wants to pretend that everything is perfect and tries to shut down anyone that says otherwise.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Yeah 2014 is a great year for Gamer, especially allot of SP RPG coming this year . Kickstarter projects are also starting to roll out Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Dragon Age 3, Wildstar, Destiny, The Witcher 3, maybe Mass Effect 4, Watch Dogs and that's only some of them.
Can't wait.
Except, it's not a free preview, it's a beta. Open Beta or the stress test is the free preview.
People pay you money to reveal info in a closed beta?
Can't wait to see the book that explains how you will financially dominate with that type of info.
I would think there are better ways to make "more" money.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I am not saying you in particular is doing this but I get tired of going to forums and to hear constant bashing. There is a HUGE difference between constructive criticism and bashing. I am not an Elder Scrolls fan and didn't even know what a Dunmer was until ESO so I want to get that out of the way. But I am more excited about ESO than any MMO in a long long time. And I have even stated things on Tamriel Foundry that I dislike about the game like being able to join multiple guilds. But I do it in a constructive way not saying its another WOW clone, its sucks, the devs are idiots and crap like that. That is what I get tired of personally because I go on forums of games I play to join the community and learn about the game. And even give constructive criticism but I never ever once go on forums and say its another themepark fail. I have seen that 100 times recently on here about ESO and that is not constructive criticism.
Games change direction in development. Things get dropped because some things cost more then expected. Or something they made turned out not too be ask fun as they thought and a smaller part of the game truned out too be a lot more fun. 100 reasons why games shoot too be X and end up hitting Y. Not a bad thing its just what it is. What I cant wait for is too see people freaking out because they helped fund a game and its nothing like they expected or wanted. I think between 2014-2015 we gona see a whole new type of angry threads. lol
Lol...seriously? one did and one did not
and.....
HOW many MMO's have been released the last several years?
Really you can't really come up with so-called specific examples because they are far from specific, the only thing specific is the mentioning of both game names.
Now if you come up with lets say 75% of all MMO's had their NDA lifted much earlier then TESO then you might have a point. Must admit havn't been in many bèta's last year 2013 ,3 where more early acces games, 1 was alpha and 2 where kickstarters. But ever beta before those alway's had NDA.
People should either try to get in beta or wait for when the game is released for information. Not sure what people expect from comments out of closed bèta's or NDA restricted games.
And if OP is waiting to read: The game s#cks, or will fail, or isn't Elder Scrolls then don't worry those topics will come in regardless if the game is fun to other people.
You have to look a persons post history to see what is happening.
You get a person posting a very long detailed post about what is wrong with the game and see fanboys and trolls turn it upside down with direct attacks, red herrings and strawmen. Perhaps the OP posts a few more detailed posts but the same thing happens over and over again. Eventually that poster STOPS posting in details because its futile, the fanboys kill it all, even the persons desire to speak about it. it turns them into a person posting short quips with little detail because doing anything else ends up completely lost in the mire of butt kissing.
Yet another thing touched on by Koster. Fanboys are destructive in every way shape and form because one post of "This game lacks in depth" is far more meaningful than a post stating "haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Up to *Record-breaking sales / log-ins / concurrent players you where spot on. To sum it up, ESO will have allot of box sales, simply because of the reputation that Bethesda has and the fact it is a Elder Scrolls game, it will break new records (mmo records) in the first month and then it will simply be forgotten. Call me a pessimist but that's how i foresee it, what a shame, i just hope Bethesda will recover from it.
I like being pessimist but sometimes hype does get to me. I do think this is a tad pessimistic
Yeah 2014 is a great year for Gamer, especially allot of SP RPG coming this year . Kickstarter projects are also starting to roll out Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Dragon Age 3, Wildstar, Destiny, The Witcher 3, maybe Mass Effect 4, Watch Dogs and that's only some of them. Can't wait.
Games change direction in development. Things get dropped because some things cost more then expected. Or something they made turned out not too be ask fun as they thought and a smaller part of the game truned out too be a lot more fun. 100 reasons why games shoot too be X and end up hitting Y. Not a bad thing its just what it is. What I cant wait for is too see people freaking out because they helped fund a game and its nothing like they expected or wanted. I think between 2014-2015 we gona see a whole new type of angry threads. lol
Are you talking specifically about Kickstarter funded games or more in general? I actually agree with you, if the Kickstarter games fail to deliver it will probably spawn a real bad backlash, especially because the consumer themselves are the investors this time around.
I think there is a lot to be said about that.
Just because one gives money to a "concept" doesn't mean that concept is going to be what you think it would be.
Let's take eso.
Let's say these developers pitched an Elder Scrolls game to kickstarter and they made the 200 million or whatever it costs to make.
Now, with the game close to release we see the game they wrought. And as we know there are a lot of people who thought that the game would be one way when it is something else.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yet its clear to see that Frior tried to get funding for DaoC 2 for years and couldn't get it. And Zenimax would only do it with the TES name on it. To do a Kickstarter they would have disclosed that they were using this design, so everyone against that piss poor decision never would have given them a dime in the first place. They would be sitting where Jacobs is now, just enough funds to get started and no where near the massive amounts of corporate money they had to make TESO with.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Ain't Camelot Unchained the new Daoc? At least that was people trying to tell me but that one barely reached it's funding minimum, which is really awkward considering that there so many people who still talk about Daoc like it's the second coming.
I agree the blinded fanboys are destructive, reminds of a fan of a sports team that thinks his team or coaches can do no wrong. I just want more mature discussions about games in general, I don't care if I dislike something somebody says about a game I like if it is done in a way that helps out. I know there is no game that I will like every aspect of, like I said before I don't like multiple guilds and don't even like racials but both are in ESO. But I am excited about the game because overall I think it will fit what I like very well. BOTH trolls and fanboys need understand that people have different tastes and like different things in MMOs and just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it sucks or is bad. It just means it isn't for you, but doesn't mean it will fail.
Yet you also have to factor in yet another aspect.
The game is using a popular IP, if the game is not being made the way a fan expects it to be made, telling them "well the game just isn't for you" only adds flame to the fire because the game is SUPPOSED to be made for them, the fans.
If it was something like, oh hey this game doesn't have "enter skill/spell" here or, it doesn't have "character name here". Then, you would have a point. But if the game, like this one, is using a core design that hampers every single aspect of the game from complete open world, faction locks, racial locks, invisible walls cutting off everything, magical lands you cant see from your home that you are supposed to be fighting for while somehow your homelands are safe from this all encompassing war, all while changing the lore to fit that very core design...its worth spewing hate over for those fans.
They are not small cosmetic complaints, they are complaints about core design that never should have been used for a setting that's the exact opposite. Hell, what I am saying, no setting should have invisible walls protecting lands that are at war in that setting! Its a piss poor design created by those feeling the need to control everything, the nanny state of gaming.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
If you had bothered to read the thread 7 posts down in my first reply I state:
Also I get that MMORPG.com respects the NDA so please abide by it.
You can call me a troll all you want but I'm not trying to bait anyone into breaking NDA.
This is more about the way I feel a shift in transparent video game design has lead to more lax NDA and NDA lifts or no NDA at all with kickstater and early access where information is being shared and made public plus I used Guildwars 2 as an example. Aslo Trove, Archeage and Wildstar were used as examples by other posters.
The best you could say is that I'm reading too much into the NDA issue.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Too true. But funny enough that could be said about a lot of MMOs. Look at GW2, what not trinity? Where are all the things that made me love GW1. I am sure we could make a list and a half. lol
You're right OP. Although I think NDA is much more important for themeparks/games with limited content.
But I disagree, I believe they are making a MMO first in the Elder Scrolls world. Unless I missed where they said its the other way around. People all assume that everybody has played Elder Scrolls games too, There are millions of MMO players that have never ever touched an Elder Scrolls game in their life and they are playing it because its a MMO not an Elder Scrolls game. Also its 100% impossible to put all Skyrim mechanics in an MMO probably unless everybody playing has the latest and greatest computer because most people's computers wont run but so much.