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The fact that this game is under NDA says more about the state of the game than anyone breaking the
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I underlined part of my post so you will understand.
There is ZERO purpose in using an existing IP if you are not making the game for its fans. Zero. In fact, it would only make them look even dumber than they are if that was the case, which it clearly isn't looking at how hard they have tried to make the game "more like TES" by daring to say "we added 1st person, so its more TES" as if 1st person was a TES innovation.
Also, I don't recall anyone saying everyone has played TES and I am also not going to once again point out how the game can be far more like TES games than not. The genre has already shown it can be over the many games it has produced.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Lol, this post was full of laughs.
You have no idea what you are talking about. This is standard procedure for MMO's, especially AAA MMO's.
NDA will be lifted with open beta.
Probably the best advice anyone can take away from the forums. We know what happens when we dare get our expectations up.
Even though I agree using an IP should be a move to entice "the fans", there is indeed a purpose to using an IP even if it doesn't entice the fans.
It saves a lot of work.
You don't have to invent the world you don't have to spend a lot of time coming up with things from scratch. Developers just have to fit everything into an mmo form. And it's known to others who are not fans. "Oh, Elder Scrolls? I've heard of that though I haven't played any of the elder scrolls games. What? They are making an mmo? Cool, I like mmo's so I'll check it out".
Instant name recognition and among those who never played an elder scrolls game there are no expectations on what an elder scrolls game should be.
For the elder scrolls fans who want to be engaged in a manner that several of the elder scrolls games have managed to implement? Well, that could be a "damn shame" to them.
Doing that will alienate the fans who are not willing to bend their thinking.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Umm, it takes far more work because you have to form most things to the ip, cut it out....
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
5 posts in almost 4 years and that is what you come here with? No refute, nothing, just a one sentence attack.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Weren't they accepting money for Black Lion items then? If so...then Arena Net , NCSoft or whoever should have dropped the NDA at that point.. I'll be damned if I can't talk about a game if I'm paying for shite. If not then they would have merely been one of a few exceptions to the rule. Any game I've ever played during Betas had an NDA through the majority of the process.
That said, I'm not holding my breath on the anticipation that this will be anything like TES in anything but look , lore and perhaps combat,crafting and skill progression. Who knows ..it could look like Skyrim with the open world and full features. BUT it will never attain the feeling that you REALLY affect the world to the degree that that game does. No npc perma-kills or real choices because everything has to "reset" in order to provide a similar experience for all the other players.
I imagine it would take a massive game with as-of-yet unrealized A.I. with a severe detailed structure of conditions,laws and rules. Both in the game coding/design and the virtual world/society itself to prevent what many (if not most) people would do if they found out there is no accountability what-so-ever. That being to cause mass chaos , unending destruction and just try to break the game (system) all together. While likely being a rude, annoying prick to everyone else during the entire process...as has been proven over and over since the inception of the interwebz.. The content would somehow have to spontaneously generate/coordinate for each individual character based on changes, permanent or otherwise, perpetrated. either directly or indirectly, by the thousands of other characters on the server(s).
Pretty silly premise.. They can do what they want. Because betas are supposed to be opportunities for players to provide feedback and allow designers to act on that feedback and modify their work, it makes a lot of sense to keep things under wraps until that work is complete.
Concerned about a game? Wait until it launches and read a few reviews. Nobody says you have to buy it at launch.
Oh and if you happen to be in the beta? You broke the NDA. Basically, a publisher invites you to provide some feedback and help in the development of the game and you betray that trust by posting something negative about the game. Betas are optional too. Don't want to be bound to the agreement or participate? Don't then but if you do agree to participate - keep your word.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
I do not feel like arguing about the game but the guys green text and extreme self-assurance made me log in to post that. Bright green text = compensating.
cut what out? lore? design? Have you ever created anything?
If the lore is there then you don't have to reinvent the wheel. If the design is there then you don't have to come up with anything from scratch.
Let's take ESO and I will only take what I've learned from the PAX play so as not to "break NDA".
there are items in the game that are pretty much exactly like Skyrim items. There are interface elements that are like skyrim.
The way you intereact with npc's is pretty much a mix of skyrim and Oblvion.
All they have to do is take the Elder Scrolls skin and lie it over their mmo.
As opposed to "what does an urn look like, how should players interact with npc's, what do buildings look like.
nope, disagree.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I actually dont get the whole NDA thing unless it is a super secret project, which then the regular joe wouldnt have access anyways.
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Cut out the over the top argument......wow.....
If lore exists you HAVE to come close to it which means your design is boxed in.
Every tool/program to make the game, every house, every item, every graphic STILL MUST BE CREATED and placed so the TIME is still being spent. Now you HAVE TO learn the lore, learn where each city, town is located and make sure its NEAR it, NPC names, the history.......You are ADDING to the workload by needing to know these things for the smallest work being done. Even the damn armor looks must be KNOWN by the graphics designer when creating the graphics! This is NOTHING like designing a game with NO history at all, the graphics designer is FREE to CREATE ANYTHING he wants and not have to learn a thing.
You are going to try to tell people that just because a world is already created in ANOTHER game that it somehow translates into LESS work in a different game?!? Give me a break. Your arguments are nuts and have no basis in reality.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
It's not an over the top argument. "wow".
The idea that you think that is amazing.
YOu somehow think that coming up with things from scratch is easier than adapting premade art assets/world assets.
And for some odd reason you think that because it's "antoher game" that that somehow translates into more work.
Creating design ideas that fit with other design ideas, creating new lore, rewriting new "everything" takes far more work than taking a whole slew of ideas that already fit together and then utilizing those ideas into your project. You aleready have world story, what the races are like, what their aesthetics are, major figures in their history, Established religions, established city names with history.
It's like writing a novel and then, for your second novel, you already have characterization, history, lore, world to then build upon the second book. OR you can write a book and then for your second book you have to reimagine ALL THAT AGAIN!
So I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree because that's all we have here.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It IS all imagined again.
They took existing lore and morphed it into a Dark Age of Camelot setting. Altering as much as they could get away with.
So, not ONLY did they have to INVENT a situation, they had to do it knowing an ENTIRE HISTORY that already exists while thinking up a way to make it fit a design process. Its knowing all about one thing while trying to create another. Yes its twice the work and anyone that has ACTUALLY created something will tell you that. You are out of your mind.
Although I really SHOULD stop and agree with you, because you are making them look like lazy fools incapable of creating anything original while needing to make it as easy as possible for their miniscule minds! (yet still taking 6 YEARS to do it) Something apparently FEW game makers are in need of doing when creating something original.
lol....you are truly amazing.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I agree 100%... only the game hasn't reached that point, that's why it's still under an NDA... what's wrong with you people?
Games in Beta have a shit load of bugs. That's why they're in Beta. Some people, probably like you and the OP, cannot be trusted to play it without blabbing around everywhere how many bugs there are. That's why it has an NDA. It's not to protect trade secrets, it's to keep numbnuts from telling everyone the game sucks because it's full of bugs, unfinished quests, wonky monster pathing, balance issues etc that are fixed... get ready for it... during the Beta process.
He's right, you're wrong. The only thing they can carry forward from older Elder Scrolls games is concept art. That's about 1% of an MMO (on the generous side there). Yes there's existing lore, but having to have all the writers learn it, and then fact check against it takes at least as much time as if they created it from scratch. Think about it. What's harder to do, write a quest, or read a bunch of background, write a quest that tries to fit into that, and then have some other people come back and fact check you?
A small reason is they would still like an element of surprise for some people when the game actually "launches".
I think the main reason is because they don't want a bunch of people running around smack talking a game that is , by the nature of an alpha or beta test, not feature realized or complete. Things may be added, changed or removed completely in the final product. Nothing is ever a "promise " or "written in stone" in a beta whether it ever existed at all or was merely hinted as a possibility. Yet plenty of people are content to make judgement based on any measure of time spent in a beta..even the briefest of moments. Then they condemn or, for that matter, recommend the game to all friends and forum goers. The latter can be just as bad or worse for a game. Especially if the reasons or features that prompted the commendation change somehow for the negative.
Unlike many seem to believe, Beta is not to give people "free game time" out of some altruistic intent , because they're bored or to make a test run before deciding whether to purchase ( not directing this statement at you..lol). That's what free trials used to be for.
Beta is to iron out the kinks. Stress test the servers. Get rid of bugs that may have gone undiscovered without a large base of players. To see what does and/or doesn't "work" . What people like and what they don't . Hopefully take suggestions into consideration and possibly make changes in favor of the experience. Within reason.
Not everyone's opinions can be taken as the best opinion..or even the popular majority. You can't make everyone happy but game developers seem to want to try more often than making a game that is new AND different. I find it hard to fault them completely. They are often "damned if they do and damned if they don't" when its comes to the final product and it's evolution both pre and post launch. That's one reason we end up with versions of essentially the same few MMOs with new skins. The same ole same ole.
LOL
So you essentially agree with me. They took established lore and then from that lore utilized elements in a new elder scrolls game. Did you not read my "novel" example above?
do you not see the direct correlation to my "novel" example above?
Did I just not say that it's like writing a novel where you spend time and effort to create lore, backstory, cities, elements and then utilize those elements for the NEW novel. As opposed to creating everyting from scratch.
I think it's "you" who are amazing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I never said they made the same game.
I said they are taking lore, art design, characters, cities, other locales etc.
remember, we are talking about using the IP. They used the IP so that they didn't have to come up with a completely new IP.
utilzing this IP means that they have lore, art assets, cities, locales to then "paint" their game upon as opposed to coming up with lore, art assets, cities, locales completely from scratch.
he said there was zero reason to use an ip unless you were making a game for fans and I am saying that the reason they used the ip was becasue it was a pre-established rich world where they can then build their game.
Or do you think that's incorrect?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That is exactly what it is "hearsay", many others have a much different opinion and very positive of what is presented. ;-)
Yep because just creation means more work than learning something already created, create something new from that, fact check it to make sure its correct.....with every single aspect of the creation right down to graphics.
Dup dup ditty day!
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Of course its incorrect as only the FANS would recognize the lore, art and locales.
hahaha.....you did it again.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/