SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
There are too many failed Star Wars games for the "It's Star Wars" argument to be true. The Star Wars IP by itself isn't enough to keep a game running, especially at the pace that SWToR is running. It's currently one of the top performing Western MMORPGs and it's in the top ten best selling Star Wars games. Again, unless it's an especially good "Star Wars" experience, then the IP keeping the game running doesn't work as an argument.
I'll bite, the IP might not be the only factor but its the largest by far, look what it is up against ATM, there is no other game out there like it the closest to is EVE. The genera, the IP and the story line. ONCE again I feel the game is crap because it is way to simple and similar to WoW when it first came out. WoW was great when it came it, if it was just now coming out it wouldnt see the light of day. SWTOR is missing just to much of everything for it to be "good" atm I would rate it "ok' IF they didnt spend 100million USD on it.
It's got to have something else. Of the over 200 Star Wars games registered on VGChartz, half of them haven't even sold enough to registered as having sold any copies at all. There are many bombed Star Wars games. The Star Wars IP as a driving factor isn't enough. It's not enough to sell some games, so the game's content must be a factor.
But again, we know there are loads and loads of threads about how people don't like SWToR. Any thread on F2P gets around to SWToR eventually. So does any thread on SWG. I totally get it. SWToR doesn't appeal to everyone and some people really don't like. I get it. I don't really like the game either. I stopped playing it soon after launch and I wouldn't play it under their current F2P model. It's just not for me. But.
A million people play the game. They made something around $139M on the game last year with just their cash shop. They made another $90M or so on their subscriptions. The game was released in 2011, and it's now 2014 and the game is still going strong. This thread asks, "Why?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I do hate the game, why, because it was extremely disappointing from my point of view, any time I log in a game and stand around for a hour out of boredom then the game has failed me.
Any time you spend an hour doing something you don't enjoy which you could have spent doing something you did enjoy, you've failed yourself.
Originally posted by lizardbones
A million people play the game. They made something around $139M on the game last year with just their cash shop. They made another $90M or so on their subscriptions. The game was released in 2011, and it's now 2014 and the game is still going strong. This thread asks, "Why?"
I honestly think the easiest way answer that is to make the question more specific. Not simply "What is TOR doing right," but "What is TOR doing right that other MMOs aren't." There are a lot of MMOs that have done most of the same things right that WoW did, but never managed to be even a blip on the radar as far as becoming massive money makers.
I really think it's all about two things; the class stories, and the full voice acting. That's it. There are other elements that are good enough that a fair number of people stick around once they've got their level 55s, but not so good that they would have bothered to stay long enough to hit the cap in the first place if the class story and voice weren't present. Regardless of what you think of the narrative quality of the class stories as measured against some objective standard, they are better, broader, and deeper than any other narrative available in a released MMORPG.
The interesting test, to me, is going to be seeing what happens after ESO has been out a few months, because I suspect it is going to be almost as strong on narrative grounds as TOR, slightly stronger on the voice acting, and substantially stronger in every other element of the game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Gorwe I haven't played it(should I?), but the impression from the media is the following:
"The Flip side of the same coin on which Rift resides"
What does that mean? Well, Rift is an excellent MMOG with barely any soul and/or narration. Therefore a horrible RPG. Meanwhile Tor is a reciprocal value of that, meaning a lot of great narration and atmosphere, but with severely hindered MMO aspects. So if you like the following:
-Bioware style stories -Star Wars -good, replayable games
You should play Tor. As I said, it's completely reciprocal from Rift which gives you the following:
-good grouping incentives -great endgame -plenty of customisability -great @ typical Themepark things
Am I right?
You should always make up your own mind, so yes, you probably should. (Although I get the impression you were talking to someone else and the quote just got lost.)
Swtor's grouping incentives are pretty much the same as every other MMO : getting better gear & a daily reward for doing the group thing.
That being said, the Flashpoints are a lot of fun - the bosses have their own mechanics like WoW's do, and so do the operation (raid) bosses.
Customizability has also improved over the years as more item sets were added, both to reputation vendors and through the Cartel Market - an important change from their original mistake is that they've made them "adaptable" now, which means anyone can wear them without having to worry about nerfing themselves (they become the armor type that matches your class the moment they are equipped).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
SWTOR is enjoyable playing through one republic character to max and then one Imperial character to max but after that it becomes less enjoyable as you end up repeating most of the content.
It still lacks player housing, content creator, beast master, fishing, living breating open worlds (which it will never get), and as it is a sci-fi / Star Wars games lacks a decent space game.
Anyone who likes playing SWTOR for a long time, have lower standards of what a MMO is, and I do not think anybody (excepy Sevenstar) who has liked SWTOR has played it for any great length. It is mostly play, quit, new content, play, quit, new content. play, quit etc. With SWG there was never a moment where I stopped playing it for another game, there was plenty to do in it.
SWTOR is like non MMOs, like Diablo, Mass effect 3, Skyrim, Dragon Age where you play through the story and then not much else to keep you hooked once at max level. If you like the game you will play it again, with another class otherwise just quit, hence the reason why 1.5 million quit the game by the time F2P came, from 2 million sales.
I honestly think the easiest way answer that is to make the question more specific. Not simply "What is TOR doing right," but "What is TOR doing right that other MMOs aren't." There are a lot of MMOs that have done most of the same things right that WoW did, but never managed to be even a blip on the radar as far as becoming massive money makers.
I really think it's all about two things; the class stories, and the full voice acting. That's it. There are other elements that are good enough that a fair number of people stick around once they've got their level 55s, but not so good that they would have bothered to stay long enough to hit the cap in the first place if the class story and voice weren't present. Regardless of what you think of the narrative quality of the class stories as measured against some objective standard, they are better, broader, and deeper than any other narrative available in a released MMORPG.
The interesting test, to me, is going to be seeing what happens after ESO has been out a few months, because I suspect it is going to be almost as strong on narrative grounds as TOR, slightly stronger on the voice acting, and substantially stronger in every other element of the game.
The biggest thing that stands out to me is the leveling experience. In most MMOs it is painfully dull. You go to a quest giver, read some text(which most skip thru) do the quest then return.After awhile that gets old and no way would you want to go through that again. In TOR, the quests have so much more meaning as they are all connected to a much broader story that is happening and you feel a part of that. Plus being able to actually INTERACT with the quest giver and have OPTIONS on how to interact add a lot as well. And if ESO takes that ball and runs with it then great because we need more games that add this type of experience.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion but the way you think your opinion is the only way is getting ridiculous. You have ZERO links, facts or proof to back up anything you said here. The current facts and current proof prove everything you said is a lie, misinformation and 100% false. If your opinions were accurate they would not have the following:
Healthy population
Generating a ton of Revenue
Making a profit.
Try to post some updated links/facts to back up your bias opinions please. Each time you post one of these bias rants and clump everyone into your dream world your credibility falls further and further.
We are living in interesting times when a game that has a healthy population and is generating millions of dollars is considered a failed game. That's when you know that some people are living in their own fantasy world and no amount of facts will bring them out of it.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion but the way you think your opinion is the only way is getting ridiculous. You have ZERO links, facts or proof to back up anything you said here. The current facts and current proof prove everything you said is a lie, misinformation and 100% false. If your opinions were accurate they would not have the following:
Healthy population
Generating a ton of Revenue
Making a profit.
Try to post some updated links/facts to back up your bias opinions please. Each time you post one of these bias rants and clump everyone into your dream world your credibility falls further and further.
We are living in interesting times when a game that has a healthy population and is generating millions of dollars is considered a failed game. That's when you know that some people are living in their own fantasy world and no amount of facts will bring them out of it.
Only where SWTOR is concerned as no other MMO needs 500K subs to break even, and even EA themselves said the performance of SWTOR was not good enough when it had just under 1 million subs, and the reason it had to go F2P.
SWTOR needs a lot more population and more revenue to be a success
I do hate the game, why, because it was extremely disappointing from my point of view, any time I log in a game and stand around for a hour out of boredom then the game has failed me.
Any time you spend an hour doing something you don't enjoy which you could have spent doing something you did enjoy, you've failed yourself.
Originally posted by lizardbones
A million people play the game. They made something around $139M on the game last year with just their cash shop. They made another $90M or so on their subscriptions. The game was released in 2011, and it's now 2014 and the game is still going strong. This thread asks, "Why?"
I honestly think the easiest way answer that is to make the question more specific. Not simply "What is TOR doing right," but "What is TOR doing right that other MMOs aren't." There are a lot of MMOs that have done most of the same things right that WoW did, but never managed to be even a blip on the radar as far as becoming massive money makers.
I really think it's all about two things; the class stories, and the full voice acting. That's it. There are other elements that are good enough that a fair number of people stick around once they've got their level 55s, but not so good that they would have bothered to stay long enough to hit the cap in the first place if the class story and voice weren't present. Regardless of what you think of the narrative quality of the class stories as measured against some objective standard, they are better, broader, and deeper than any other narrative available in a released MMORPG.
The interesting test, to me, is going to be seeing what happens after ESO has been out a few months, because I suspect it is going to be almost as strong on narrative grounds as TOR, slightly stronger on the voice acting, and substantially stronger in every other element of the game.
Well, SWToR certainly provides things that don't currently exist in other MMORPGs. Class stories, companion stories and the space combat are things that quickly come to mind. Someone mentioned the raid progression though, which I have heard from people outside of these forums as well. That is certainly something that WoW dominates the field in, but there are people who find SWToR's raid progression something very worthwhile. That's why I'm leaving this as open ended as I can. It would not have occurred to me to include the raid progression as something even worth mentioning, but apparently it is. I'd rather not miss anything else.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
SWTOR is enjoyable playing through one republic character to max and then one Imperial character to max but after that it becomes less enjoyable as you end up repeating most of the content.
It still lacks player housing, content creator, beast master, fishing, living breating open worlds (which it will never get), and as it is a sci-fi / Star Wars games lacks a decent space game.
Anyone who likes playing SWTOR for a long time, have lower standards of what a MMO is, and I do not think anybody (excepy Sevenstar) who has liked SWTOR has played it for any great length. It is mostly play, quit, new content, play, quit, new content. play, quit etc. With SWG there was never a moment where I stopped playing it for another game, there was plenty to do in it.
SWTOR is like non MMOs, like Diablo, Mass effect 3, Skyrim, Dragon Age where you play through the story and then not much else to keep you hooked once at max level. If you like the game you will play it again, with another class otherwise just quit, hence the reason why 1.5 million quit the game by the time F2P came, from 2 million sales.
Sure, for most people content repetition becomes boring. That isn't a TOR problem, it is an any game with static questing content problem. And the class stories make it less of a problem, however slightly. A lot of the things you list that it "lacks" are things that the type of game it is doesn't have, not just this particular game. A content creator wouldn't work well in a fully voiced game, or in a game with a strong and cohesive narrative focus, it just doesn't fit. Beast master has never been a Star Wars thing. It was a SWG thing, but SWG wasn't very Star Wars. Fishing? Seriously? The game has enough pointless time sinks without adding one more.
And it isn't lower standards, it's different standards. TOR is a MMORPG for people who like have both, but think the RPG should outweigh the MMO. And plenty to do in SWG? Huh? In real SWG (2003-2005) once you had your character build how you wanted it, with all your points spent, you could PvP, craft and sell, or build and decorate a house. That was pretty much it, unless you wanted to participate in the hologrind once that started. There was no meaningful PvE after your character was maxed.
Originally posted by superniceguy
Only where SWTOR is concerned as no other MMO needs 500K subs to break even, and even EA themselves said the performance of SWTOR was not good enough when it had just under 1 million subs, and the reason it had to go F2P.
SWTOR needs a lot more population and more revenue to be a success
Needed, not needs. Welcome to 2014. In 2013 TOR's cash shop revenue was the equivalent of having 772,000 people with monthly subscriptions for an entire year. Add the half million actual subscriptions, and they had the equivalent of 1.2-1.3 million subscribers for 2013. They are a success, and they always have been. Adding the free option and the cash shop kept them successful and increased their success, but they were smart about it, they added the cash shop to prevent failure from ever happening, not because it already had.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
So what gives? What is SWToR doing right to attract all those people? We know what they're doing wrong. Good grief you can't throw a stone lately for hitting a SWToR thread talking about how horrible the game is. But they must be doing something right. A million people would not be playing a bad game. So what is it? What is pulling in all those people?
**
1) Star Wars includes game play not regularly found in other MMORPGs. The space combat is fairly unique to SWToR and also the companions with their quests and crafting are unique to SWToR.
2) SWToR has a progression based system that isn't unique, but it's well made and consistent.
3) SWToR is a good "Star Wars" game. It has the IP, but many games since Star Wars first released have been based on the Star Wars IP and many of them have completely bombed. The IP alone isn't enough. SWToR is a much better than average at providing a Star Wars experience.
4) The class based story lines are probably key in providing that Star Wars experience, and in the MMORPG space are unique to Star Wars. The is carried through with the character's relationship with their companions.
5) Actual dialog options. Like the Light Side/Dark Side choices, these do not have a dramatic impact on the outcomes of the game, but they are entertaining.
This post by SevenStar seems to highlight a lot of the things done right, and people seem to agree with it.
It's just the IP and its loyal Star Wars fans, it doesn't matter how good or bad they will follow it up or down and all around. SW has the biggest fan club ever at like 30 million or something. So to have 500K SW crack pots willing to pay for it is not shocking one bit.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
It's just the IP and its loyal Star Wars fans, it doesn't matter how good or bad they will follow it up or down and all around. SW has the biggest fan club ever at like 30 million or something. So to have 500K SW crack pots willing to pay for it is not shocking one bit.
I guess you must have missed SWG, a Star Wars game that never came anywhere close to having 500k subs. It's not just that it's Star Wars. It may be as simple as "Star Wars + BioWare" but the BioWare is at least as important as the Star Wars.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
All the so called experts on this forum (and there a lots of them) claiming it's failure was imminent - were flat out wrong.
And they will continue to be wrong as time goes by and they either keep bashing this game or decide to move on to another game to declare it's failure based on their vast wealth of knowledge and experience in game creation and knowing what everyone else wants...
They'll let themselves starve before they eat them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
So what gives? What is SWToR doing right to attract all those people? We know what they're doing wrong. Good grief you can't throw a stone lately for hitting a SWToR thread talking about how horrible the game is. But they must be doing something right. A million people would not be playing a bad game. So what is it? What is pulling in all those people?
**
1) Star Wars includes game play not regularly found in other MMORPGs. The space combat is fairly unique to SWToR and also the companions with their quests and crafting are unique to SWToR.
2) SWToR has a progression based system that isn't unique, but it's well made and consistent.
3) SWToR is a good "Star Wars" game. It has the IP, but many games since Star Wars first released have been based on the Star Wars IP and many of them have completely bombed. The IP alone isn't enough. SWToR is a much better than average at providing a Star Wars experience.
4) The class based story lines are probably key in providing that Star Wars experience, and in the MMORPG space are unique to Star Wars. The is carried through with the character's relationship with their companions.
5) Actual dialog options. Like the Light Side/Dark Side choices, these do not have a dramatic impact on the outcomes of the game, but they are entertaining.
This post by SevenStar seems to highlight a lot of the things done right, and people seem to agree with it.
It's just the IP and its loyal Star Wars fans, it doesn't matter how good or bad they will follow it up or down and all around. SW has the biggest fan club ever at like 30 million or something. So to have 500K SW crack pots willing to pay for it is not shocking one bit.
Then why have half the games with a Star Wars IP bombed out so badly they don't even register as having sold a single copy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
All the so called experts on this forum (and there a lots of them) claiming it's failure was imminent - were flat out wrong.
And they will continue to be wrong as time goes by and they either keep bashing this game or decide to move on to another game to declare it's failure based on their vast wealth of knowledge and experience in game creation and knowing what everyone else wants...
I smell some crow burgers on on the BBQ..
Ha move on, that will never happen.
A year from now they will still be here saying the same exact things while people still enjoy the game and they contunie to put out new content and the year after that and the year after that and so on.
Then maybe 8 or 9 years from now when SWtOR 2 comes out they will claim victory saying that they knew it was going to be shut down.
All the so called experts on this forum (and there a lots of them) claiming it's failure was imminent - were flat out wrong.
And they will continue to be wrong as time goes by and they either keep bashing this game or decide to move on to another game to declare it's failure based on their vast wealth of knowledge and experience in game creation and knowing what everyone else wants...
I smell some crow burgers on on the BBQ..
Ha move on, that will never happen.
A year from now they will still be here saying the same exact things while people still enjoy the game and they contunie to put out new content and the year after that and the year after that and so on.
Then maybe 8 or 9 years from now when SWtOR 2 comes out they will claim victory saying that they knew it was going to be shut down.
Sounds about right to me.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.
if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.
if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
"Turn it into a sandbox or your game sucks!"
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.
if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
"Turn it into a sandbox or your game sucks!"
Not really.
LOTRO is not a sandbox and does not suck. There are so many missions and side quests in that you do not get to do the same quest so frequently, it has more / better seasonal events, has player housing, and better crafting
Being able to repeat some past missions could be start, like you can do in STO, and get rewarded with items that are to your level. Also STO has a much better space game than SWTOR, and STO is not a sandbox either
Anyone who likes playing SWTOR for a long time, have lower standards of what a MMO is...
ROFL!! I'm sorry but anyone who props up Star Trek Online as a good game has no room to tell others about their "low" standards.
I do not tthink STO is a good game either, but it has more replayability than SWTOR, and has more support than SWTOR with the cast of Star Trek getting involved, getting expanded every other month. Plus no one I know plays SWTOR, but they do play STO
One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.
if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
That's great but it will never be what you want. Unfortunately having around 500k subs and 1.7 million f2p accounts is far more of a standard then "our community" which is 3 or 4 haters spamming on a few online sites. The great news for you is smedly is making a new game. Go over there spear your lies, misinformation and outdated links because Swtor will NEVER ever be what YOU want it to be. Whether it's successful in your eyes or not has zero impact on anything. I really hope soe doesn't break your heart again and created the game you need.
What is next for SWTOR? I see nothing but profession tweaks and maybe more cash shop items and nothing in the league of Makeb or Galactic Starfighter, which is what brought the boost in 2013. Even I subbed to SWTOR for those two things.
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Dewguy79 Originally posted by superniceguy One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
That's great but it will never be what you want. Unfortunately having around 500k subs and 1.7 million f2p accounts is far more of a standard then "our community" which is 3 or 4 haters spamming on a few online sites. The great news for you is smedly is making a new game. Go over there spear your lies, misinformation and outdated links because Swtor will NEVER ever be what YOU want it to be. Whether it's successful in your eyes or not has zero impact on anything. I really hope soe doesn't break your heart again and created the game you need.
What is next for SWTOR? I see nothing but profession tweaks and maybe more cash shop items and nothing in the league of Makeb or Galactic Starfighter, which is what brought the boost in 2013. Even I subbed to SWTOR for those two things.
Well considering it's Jan. 27 and they have already released the Rakgoul event, I'd say '14 will be an exciting year.
Not to mention the fact that Galactic Starfighter ,a major expansion to the game,was just released and didn't cost subbers a dime.
Anyone who likes playing SWTOR for a long time, have lower standards of what a MMO is...
ROFL!! I'm sorry but anyone who props up Star Trek Online as a good game has no room to tell others about their "low" standards.
^This.
SWTOR is a solid MMO. Sure, it lacks some features other games have but the class storylines are great and the group content is challenging and fun. PvP is mostly enjoyable aside from it being gear-based but what MMO isn't. Galactic starfighter is a great addition for those who have been wanting off rails space combat. I think alot of people who are critical of the game never really gave it a fair shake. The first 30 days after launch left bad taste in their mouth or the F2P model was too restrictive for their liking. It's certainly not the best MMO ever made but its still quite enjoyable.
Comments
It's got to have something else. Of the over 200 Star Wars games registered on VGChartz, half of them haven't even sold enough to registered as having sold any copies at all. There are many bombed Star Wars games. The Star Wars IP as a driving factor isn't enough. It's not enough to sell some games, so the game's content must be a factor.
But again, we know there are loads and loads of threads about how people don't like SWToR. Any thread on F2P gets around to SWToR eventually. So does any thread on SWG. I totally get it. SWToR doesn't appeal to everyone and some people really don't like. I get it. I don't really like the game either. I stopped playing it soon after launch and I wouldn't play it under their current F2P model. It's just not for me. But.
A million people play the game. They made something around $139M on the game last year with just their cash shop. They made another $90M or so on their subscriptions. The game was released in 2011, and it's now 2014 and the game is still going strong. This thread asks, "Why?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Any time you spend an hour doing something you don't enjoy which you could have spent doing something you did enjoy, you've failed yourself.
I honestly think the easiest way answer that is to make the question more specific. Not simply "What is TOR doing right," but "What is TOR doing right that other MMOs aren't." There are a lot of MMOs that have done most of the same things right that WoW did, but never managed to be even a blip on the radar as far as becoming massive money makers.
I really think it's all about two things; the class stories, and the full voice acting. That's it. There are other elements that are good enough that a fair number of people stick around once they've got their level 55s, but not so good that they would have bothered to stay long enough to hit the cap in the first place if the class story and voice weren't present. Regardless of what you think of the narrative quality of the class stories as measured against some objective standard, they are better, broader, and deeper than any other narrative available in a released MMORPG.
The interesting test, to me, is going to be seeing what happens after ESO has been out a few months, because I suspect it is going to be almost as strong on narrative grounds as TOR, slightly stronger on the voice acting, and substantially stronger in every other element of the game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You should always make up your own mind, so yes, you probably should. (Although I get the impression you were talking to someone else and the quote just got lost.)
Swtor's grouping incentives are pretty much the same as every other MMO : getting better gear & a daily reward for doing the group thing.
That being said, the Flashpoints are a lot of fun - the bosses have their own mechanics like WoW's do, and so do the operation (raid) bosses.
Customizability has also improved over the years as more item sets were added, both to reputation vendors and through the Cartel Market - an important change from their original mistake is that they've made them "adaptable" now, which means anyone can wear them without having to worry about nerfing themselves (they become the armor type that matches your class the moment they are equipped).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
SWTOR is enjoyable playing through one republic character to max and then one Imperial character to max but after that it becomes less enjoyable as you end up repeating most of the content.
It still lacks player housing, content creator, beast master, fishing, living breating open worlds (which it will never get), and as it is a sci-fi / Star Wars games lacks a decent space game.
Anyone who likes playing SWTOR for a long time, have lower standards of what a MMO is, and I do not think anybody (excepy Sevenstar) who has liked SWTOR has played it for any great length. It is mostly play, quit, new content, play, quit, new content. play, quit etc. With SWG there was never a moment where I stopped playing it for another game, there was plenty to do in it.
SWTOR is like non MMOs, like Diablo, Mass effect 3, Skyrim, Dragon Age where you play through the story and then not much else to keep you hooked once at max level. If you like the game you will play it again, with another class otherwise just quit, hence the reason why 1.5 million quit the game by the time F2P came, from 2 million sales.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
The biggest thing that stands out to me is the leveling experience. In most MMOs it is painfully dull. You go to a quest giver, read some text(which most skip thru) do the quest then return.After awhile that gets old and no way would you want to go through that again. In TOR, the quests have so much more meaning as they are all connected to a much broader story that is happening and you feel a part of that. Plus being able to actually INTERACT with the quest giver and have OPTIONS on how to interact add a lot as well. And if ESO takes that ball and runs with it then great because we need more games that add this type of experience.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
We are living in interesting times when a game that has a healthy population and is generating millions of dollars is considered a failed game. That's when you know that some people are living in their own fantasy world and no amount of facts will bring them out of it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Only where SWTOR is concerned as no other MMO needs 500K subs to break even, and even EA themselves said the performance of SWTOR was not good enough when it had just under 1 million subs, and the reason it had to go F2P.
SWTOR needs a lot more population and more revenue to be a success
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Well, SWToR certainly provides things that don't currently exist in other MMORPGs. Class stories, companion stories and the space combat are things that quickly come to mind. Someone mentioned the raid progression though, which I have heard from people outside of these forums as well. That is certainly something that WoW dominates the field in, but there are people who find SWToR's raid progression something very worthwhile. That's why I'm leaving this as open ended as I can. It would not have occurred to me to include the raid progression as something even worth mentioning, but apparently it is. I'd rather not miss anything else.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Sure, for most people content repetition becomes boring. That isn't a TOR problem, it is an any game with static questing content problem. And the class stories make it less of a problem, however slightly. A lot of the things you list that it "lacks" are things that the type of game it is doesn't have, not just this particular game. A content creator wouldn't work well in a fully voiced game, or in a game with a strong and cohesive narrative focus, it just doesn't fit. Beast master has never been a Star Wars thing. It was a SWG thing, but SWG wasn't very Star Wars. Fishing? Seriously? The game has enough pointless time sinks without adding one more.
And it isn't lower standards, it's different standards. TOR is a MMORPG for people who like have both, but think the RPG should outweigh the MMO. And plenty to do in SWG? Huh? In real SWG (2003-2005) once you had your character build how you wanted it, with all your points spent, you could PvP, craft and sell, or build and decorate a house. That was pretty much it, unless you wanted to participate in the hologrind once that started. There was no meaningful PvE after your character was maxed.
Needed, not needs. Welcome to 2014. In 2013 TOR's cash shop revenue was the equivalent of having 772,000 people with monthly subscriptions for an entire year. Add the half million actual subscriptions, and they had the equivalent of 1.2-1.3 million subscribers for 2013. They are a success, and they always have been. Adding the free option and the cash shop kept them successful and increased their success, but they were smart about it, they added the cash shop to prevent failure from ever happening, not because it already had.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
It's just the IP and its loyal Star Wars fans, it doesn't matter how good or bad they will follow it up or down and all around. SW has the biggest fan club ever at like 30 million or something. So to have 500K SW crack pots willing to pay for it is not shocking one bit.
I guess you must have missed SWG, a Star Wars game that never came anywhere close to having 500k subs. It's not just that it's Star Wars. It may be as simple as "Star Wars + BioWare" but the BioWare is at least as important as the Star Wars.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
The best about SWTOR being successful is?
All the so called experts on this forum (and there a lots of them) claiming it's failure was imminent - were flat out wrong.
And they will continue to be wrong as time goes by and they either keep bashing this game or decide to move on to another game to declare it's failure based on their vast wealth of knowledge and experience in game creation and knowing what everyone else wants...
I smell some crow burgers on on the BBQ..
They'll let themselves starve before they eat them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Then why have half the games with a Star Wars IP bombed out so badly they don't even register as having sold a single copy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ha move on, that will never happen.
A year from now they will still be here saying the same exact things while people still enjoy the game and they contunie to put out new content and the year after that and the year after that and so on.
Then maybe 8 or 9 years from now when SWtOR 2 comes out they will claim victory saying that they knew it was going to be shut down.
Sounds about right to me.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
One day the devs will actually listen to our comments, and make SWTOR more attractive so that a lot more people will want to play it. That is my intention. I am not here to bash the game, but improve / enhance it. Everyone else just wants the game to stay what is - mediocre / sub par / boring / constrictive.
if not SWTOR then another MMO, and Smedley is the only one listening, although yet has to prove he can pull it off.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
"Turn it into a sandbox or your game sucks!"
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
ROFL!!I'm sorry but anyone who props up Star Trek Online as a good game has no room to tell others about their "low" standards.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Not really.
LOTRO is not a sandbox and does not suck. There are so many missions and side quests in that you do not get to do the same quest so frequently, it has more / better seasonal events, has player housing, and better crafting
Being able to repeat some past missions could be start, like you can do in STO, and get rewarded with items that are to your level. Also STO has a much better space game than SWTOR, and STO is not a sandbox either
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I do not tthink STO is a good game either, but it has more replayability than SWTOR, and has more support than SWTOR with the cast of Star Trek getting involved, getting expanded every other month. Plus no one I know plays SWTOR, but they do play STO
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
What is next for SWTOR? I see nothing but profession tweaks and maybe more cash shop items and nothing in the league of Makeb or Galactic Starfighter, which is what brought the boost in 2013. Even I subbed to SWTOR for those two things.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
That's great but it will never be what you want. Unfortunately having around 500k subs and 1.7 million f2p accounts is far more of a standard then "our community" which is 3 or 4 haters spamming on a few online sites. The great news for you is smedly is making a new game. Go over there spear your lies, misinformation and outdated links because Swtor will NEVER ever be what YOU want it to be. Whether it's successful in your eyes or not has zero impact on anything. I really hope soe doesn't break your heart again and created the game you need.What is next for SWTOR? I see nothing but profession tweaks and maybe more cash shop items and nothing in the league of Makeb or Galactic Starfighter, which is what brought the boost in 2013. Even I subbed to SWTOR for those two things.
Well considering it's Jan. 27 and they have already released the Rakgoul event, I'd say '14 will be an exciting year.
Not to mention the fact that Galactic Starfighter ,a major expansion to the game,was just released and didn't cost subbers a dime.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
^This.
SWTOR is a solid MMO. Sure, it lacks some features other games have but the class storylines are great and the group content is challenging and fun. PvP is mostly enjoyable aside from it being gear-based but what MMO isn't. Galactic starfighter is a great addition for those who have been wanting off rails space combat. I think alot of people who are critical of the game never really gave it a fair shake. The first 30 days after launch left bad taste in their mouth or the F2P model was too restrictive for their liking. It's certainly not the best MMO ever made but its still quite enjoyable.