Originally posted by Agent_Joseph devs should make more wow clones not those story driven,SP-co-op -mp games crap what selling as MMO's
It's funny you say that.
WoW has millions.
Rift had a very high population when it launched. (Over 1M I believe)
SWTOR had 2M at it's launch.
FF14:ARR sold 1.5M
The list goes on.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
All the people on these boards who say "WoW clones fail" have it backwards. WoW clones don't fail because they are WoW clones. They fail because they aren't.
I think one major thing that is diminishing the wow syndrome is that people are "getting over" wow in many ways. People are not so interested in wow anymore, many people chanting "wow clone" has the game as a distant memory anymore, and haters are getting bored hating it. It's a relic.
It's also a big game and has a big history so there will always be people tossing around the wow related comments but it's just the buzzing of insects now, there's a relative peace in mmorpg-land and people are more interested in talking what's coming, even if the new titles have a hefty amount of wow in them.
At least that's how I like to see it. It's also very refreshing to not hear a single wow related comment these days when trying out a new game, be it F2P or a boxed game from the store, the chat channels are free of the wow curse of past times. There has been practically zero comments or comparisons to wow the past two years I've played an MMO game.
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph devs should make more wow clones not those story driven,SP-co-op -mp games crap what selling as MMO's
It's funny you say that.
WoW has millions.
Rift had a very high population when it launched. (Over 1M I believe)
SWTOR had 2M at it's launch.
FF14:ARR sold 1.5M
The list goes on.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
All the people on these boards who say "WoW clones fail" have it backwards. WoW clones don't fail because they are WoW clones. They fail because they aren't.
The problem is that other developers aren't learning the right lessons, not that they are or aren't making a clone of World of Warcraft. Also, you definitely have the wrong idea if you think people want clones of World of Warcraft. The reason SWTOR, Rift, FF14:ARR, and WoW sold so well is they had a setting that was interesting or had a strong franchise backing them. The numbers following three of those titles launches plummeted like a rock when people found the direction of the game was not as they envisioned.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Wow isnt losing subs because its a bad game. Its losing subs because of stagnation. I love wow, played it for 5 years. I still think its the best mmo a new mmo player can get into. But after 5 years it was enough for me. Blizzard has to really step their game up and start changing wow or it will be left behind. People are just tired of the same old same old every year.
I played the game about the same time, starting when the game launched. I got bored waiting Blizzard to evolve the game a bit, and it became apparent they are not interested in doing so probably because there's a risk of breaking the cycle that brings billions to them, if they change or innovate too much (at all) in it.
That is why the game is more or less an "entry mmorpg" imo, new players go to wow, at some point they get bored of the recycled content and mechanics in every expansion, and by the time they are out of the game same amount of new players has replaced them.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
No, the games fail because people realize that the games are clones of something that they have grown bored of, if they were not bored of WoW they would not have to even search for a new game. But they are, and they find a new game, which is just like WoW so they are already bored of the game because it works identically to the game that they left, more or less. Believe me I have experience with this.
We will all only be aware of an actual shift in the way things are retrospectively. A quick search I did a few minutes ago resulting in 3-4 topics a year for the last 4 years that are exactly like this one makes me feel empirically correct in saying that. Every year or two (sometimes only 6 months apart) a lot of us become hopeful or get excited over some upcoming releases. We chant change is coming. And, then 8-12 months later only talk about how they changed nothing really, only made a small impact, or were massively disappointing.
I am willing to go out on a limb with a total guesstimate and say that 90% of the time, true change in the genre happens over the course of several years in small and almost imperceptible increments. And, to the best of my recollection. No one has ever accurately predicted a big thing happening or what the effects of that event would be. It's all in reflection that we realize when things did change. And, we can keep rallying for change. But, we don't get to know ahead of time that it is coming when it does.
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph devs should make more wow clones not those story driven,SP-co-op -mp games crap what selling as MMO's
It's funny you say that.
WoW has millions.
Rift had a very high population when it launched. (Over 1M I believe)
SWTOR had 2M at it's launch.
FF14:ARR sold 1.5M
The list goes on.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
All the people on these boards who say "WoW clones fail" have it backwards. WoW clones don't fail because they are WoW clones. They fail because they aren't.
The problem is that other developers aren't learning the right lessons, not that they are or aren't making a clone of World of Warcraft. Also, you definitely have the wrong idea if you think people want clones of World of Warcraft. The reason SWTOR, Rift, FF14:ARR, and WoW sold so well is they had a setting that was interesting or had a strong franchise backing them. The numbers following three of those titles launches plummeted like a rock when people found the direction of the game was not as they envisioned.
Couldn't disagree more. I don't believe that the majority of players who bought those games expected something different. Most of these games made it perfectly clear before they released, they were they were copying WoW. SWTOR developers even said prior to release that they were after the WoW formula since it was proven to be successful. Players soaked it up. FF14 was transparent during redevelopment. Yoshi made it clear that he was using traditional mechanics before the game launched. The game launched with such an overwhelming and unanticipated success, that it actualy cause huge launch issues. Rift launched, with the slogan "We're not in Azeroth anymore" . Clearly an appeal to WoW players. It worked.
Everyone knew they were buying a new WoW. It's when they realized these games fell short of WoW's model, and didn't give them the experience they wanted, they left. Still, the closer the game was to replicating WoW's formula, the longer success it had. While in the end, Rift was no blockbuster, it was solid and had a solid subscriber base. I was an active Rift subscriber when SWTOR launched. 30-60 days, the game became flooded with SWTOR refugees. They all said the same thing. Rift was a better game. The only reason it went F2P was because Trion was in trouble but not because of Rift, they needed a quick revenue boost. FF14 is still going very strong. And of course, WoW continues to be the top dog in MMORPG Theme Parks.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
May be although i don't. I want other settings. That is why I am playing Marvel Heroes, and STO .. way more than GW2.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
May be although i don't. I want other settings. That is why I am playing Marvel Heroes, and STO .. way more than GW2.
I am not trying to imply that this is what every single person who plays online games wants. I was more or less referring to those who bought (or at least wanted to buy) those games. So when I say "people" I am referring to the millions who want a good WoW clone. It's not everyone. And certainly a minority on these boards, but it's still a huge number out there in the genre.
Everyone knew they were buying a new WoW. It's when they realized these games fell short of WoW's model, and didn't give them the experience they wanted, they left. Still, the closer the game was to replicating WoW's formula, the longer success it had. While in the end, Rift was no blockbuster, it was solid and had a solid subscriber base. I was an active Rift subscriber when SWTOR launched. 30-60 days, the game became flooded with SWTOR refugees. They all said the same thing. Rift was a better game. The only reason it went F2P was because Trion was in trouble but not because of Rift, they needed a quick revenue boost. FF14 is still going very strong. And of course, WoW continues to be the top dog in MMORPG Theme Parks.
It's not so much the model, as much as content.
To match WoW's success the new franchise has to have enough content to keep players' interest. RIFT was released and all of RIFT itself could fit into Outland. Could literally walk to one end of the map to the other...it was that small of a world. RIFT now has more content and matured, so now it'll have to work on features and customer service (for example, I bought 4 Rift games at the start, and could only play 2, because their messed up customer service that required browser activation [and the CS apparently couldn't understand basic English - browser>activation>won't work!]. I will never play RIFT again over it, as that's a lot of wasted money. CS is paramount to me for account issues, especially in entertainment venues. Any game with wishy-washy CS is a no-go -- that includes you too Blizzard).
Originally posted by Jafotron Agree, some cool new ideas with upcoming games, defo will try each one, but knowing some people they will try to label it a "Wow clone" just because it has quests or raids
It is not a matter of what is in a game,it is more so how the game forces you to play.You can do anything you want in a game but if 99% of the players just play the game exactly like Wow,then it is a Wow clone no matter what else the game does.
Another perfect example is EQL is nothing more than a Minecraft.Sure they will eventually add combat into it,but they are already selling cash shop for this game,so they are selling a newer version of Minecraft.Furthermore the players will most likely want to play the REAL game of EQN that does leave Landmark out in the cold,no matter what Georgeson tries to say.
Really they are all Everquest clones,EQ2 did a lot better job of doing the same thing as Wow,first and with better lighting and graphics.EQ1 was really the premier flagship game for this genre,some might argue Ultima or even SWG but EQ1 was the game to judge all others.
I am really curious as to what people think is going to create a new game style in upcoming games,i still see people wandering around chasing yellow markers and doing instances,what game is doing it different?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am really curious as to what people think is going to create a new game style in upcoming games,i still see people wandering around chasing yellow markers and doing instances,what game is doing it different?
Supporting smaller niche oriented titles that differ from the norm is one way to show what we like.
Ofcourse, as long as people say "not polished enough", "Clunky", "not AAA", etc., these smaller titles have no chance to be really successful and thus the bigger companies won't hop on the train.
So, do we really believe in "gameplay > graphics/polish"?
In the end, the market always gets what the market wants.
The big question being: how many people really want something different?
AAA budget titles need the mass market, some game-enthusiasts on a forum don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things.
My question for most of you guys are why cannot most of you not just like a game for you know it being a game? How come every game you pick up has to be generalized into if its a "wow clone" or not? How exactly does it effect your gaming if a game offers raiding or quest hubs but also has sandbox elements? I imagine most of the posters here are older as this thread seems to be pretty mature but seriously why does it matter?
When I purchase a game or read up on game I could really care less if its a sandbox or a theme park with "wow clone" features. When I buy a game I look at the combat and gameplay elements and could really care less if end game has raiding or tri realm pvp or warfronts/warzones etc. It should be about fun and not if a game has some exclaimation points over npc names. I play games like seven days to die , the dead linger, planet explorers etc. They are full sandbox survival games but I also play games like SWTOR WOW and GW2 and those are on rails theme parks. But I enjoy each of them pretty much equally at different times. The way most of the people in this thread sound they want every sort of game that has quest hubs and theme park like story gone from the genre in general which comes down IMO to maybe you guys should just stick to games you like instead of bitching about every new game that is a themepark.
Finally it took some years to bleed it to near death, now we have plenty of MMOs in the making that is not a WoW clone and for me I find this trend most interesting.'
Go 2014
If it was dead Wildstar wouldn't be at the top of many "most anticipated of 2014 mmo" lists.
Originally posted by Gravarg People will still call anything with a login screen a WoW Clone, unfortunately. Just look at Wildstar, other than it has levels and a login screen, it shares very little with anything that WoW has done lol. Some say the graphics are similar, but they're not. Wildstar's are more quarky and um...wild hehe.
I agree the term "wow clone" gets used too much, but Wildstar is indeed a wow clone. Hell even the devs and fans embrace it calling it WOW 2.0.
Er.. They somewhat have broken the themepark trend but that type of game it is never going away. But thats fine. Means more options for those that like either or both.
Whilst I've even seen eve online called wow in space, isn't wildstar meant to be a 'wow clone', albeit a sort of 'vanilla wow' clone rather than a 'current wow' clone?
This is the way I see the game aswell. Wildstar isn't a "wow clone" it's a "wow vanilla clone". But then again the mechanics are very different then wow and the game it self could be fun if you like end game raiding.
Really they are all Everquest clones,EQ2 did a lot better job of doing the same thing as Wow,first and with better lighting and graphics.EQ1 was really the premier flagship game for this genre,some might argue Ultima or even SWG but EQ1 was the game to judge all others.
The two that started WoW, were guild leaders in EQ.
So, yes, WoW is an EQ clone. There's a lot of references to EQ (and by extension EQII) in WoW, as a hat tip to EQ.
What we see today as a "WoW clone", is EQ heritage.
The only problem now with WoW is: EQ/EQII/EQN is moving on, WoW is hampered by the very engine that attracted the masses to that game. EQN will have the newer tech, while Blizzard is trying to keep a 10 year-old engine still viable, and being limited by it. The item squish coming up is a requirement, for example, as the engine reached it's computation limit. WoW will have to have a new engine to keep up, or it'll be a DOS/Windows situation in gaming. It's still the best MMORPG for the content (and some unique classes like Holy paladins -- a full time healing...paladin...impossible!!!) and some innovations unique to gaming, but it's getting old in it's routines that Blizzard stubbornly adheres too -- even EQ doesn't have ghost walks anymore, that time sinking isn't needed in a full content game anymore (worked fine in vanilla, not 5 expansions later). EQ/EQII noticed that and changed it. Blizzard is still locked into EQ's past and how EQ worked 10 years ago, so much I do believe that is their design flaw of it all. It's not flexible enough in an industry that changes yearly.
SOE is innovating the smaller details about player satisfaction (probably due to the 2005 war against players and trying to rebuild trust, for that folks can't deny they truly are offering a lot of options. Other than RIFT I don't know of another publishers bending backwards to make players happy with the little details). WoW innovates in game revolutionizing ways (e.g., LFG/LFR and other systems that changes how MMOs operate, tech like CRZ and connected realms [virtual server merges]). Each are working different sides of the MMO tech coin, so not directly competing (don't directly compete with Blizzard they're the greediest IP protectors known, and think nothing of crushing competition. Publishers have to find that niche that isn't Blizzards).
Blizzard does have one thing no other MMO is following either due to style or tools -- their characters/animations follow the Disney animation school. Pay real close attention to the model/animation changes, you'll find that if they didn't consult with Disney, they learned well. That's the level of detail Blizzard works on WHEN IT DOESN'T GUM UP GAME MECHANICS. EQN/ESO/RIFT/Wildstar and nth other MMO will completely miss that one point, and blow it. When you play a character for so long a day, and for years, it's not realism that gets your attention...it's the quirks/bugs in the animations. WoW players talk about it constantly, despite the godawful graphics and low poly models, WoW animations run smoother and don't look anime (cartoonish, but not anime with stop motion cinemagraphics). It's been an ace in Blizzard's pocket for years and so under the radar other publishers completely miss it, as they're concentrating on either the style of WoW's toons or the game mechanics that Blizzard does, when it's the Blizzard Art Academy that's Blizzard's royal flush.
Blizzard is v-e-r-y protective of it's art department (one of the excuses Blizzard used to explain to not have appearance armor, was how it would upset their artists feelings [it was hogwash, as transmorg opens more opportunities to display their handiwork, especially with selling cosmestic armor later on], but I understood what was said in between the lines -- finding and keeping the best artists and animators is difficult in a very competitive market, and the simple ego rush/morale booster of a best gear for an expansion was your design and picked).
No other MMO is doing that, and no other MMO will succeed due to it. They go niche and cross fingers, instead.
It's always...always...the little things that make a MMO great from mediocre.
Really they are all Everquest clones,EQ2 did a lot better job of doing the same thing as Wow,first and with better lighting and graphics.EQ1 was really the premier flagship game for this genre,some might argue Ultima or even SWG but EQ1 was the game to judge all others.
EQ Clones? There is a reason the term "WoW Clone" came about. EQ just wasn't as good as WoW. The Duryea Motor Wagon Company (Who?) was the 1st American automotive manufacturing company. Does that mean Ford cloned their stuff? Maybe, but it doesn't matter. They didn't do it better and don't deserve the recognition that Ford did. Ford simply surpassed them. Just because EQ was 1st on the scene doesn't mean they deserve anything because of it. Blizzard made a better game.
Really they are all Everquest clones,EQ2 did a lot better job of doing the same thing as Wow,first and with better lighting and graphics.EQ1 was really the premier flagship game for this genre,some might argue Ultima or even SWG but EQ1 was the game to judge all others.
EQ Clones? There is a reason the term "WoW Clone" came about. EQ just wasn't as good as WoW. The Duryea Motor Wagon Company (Who?) was the 1st American automotive manufacturing company. Does that mean Ford cloned their stuff? Maybe, but it doesn't matter. They didn't do it better and don't deserve the recognition that Ford did. Ford simply surpassed them. Just because EQ was 1st on the scene doesn't mean they deserve anything because of it. Blizzard made a better game.
Scroll above.
WoW is indeed an EQ clone even down to the behaviors EQ became infamous for. Duskwood just didn't appear out of thin air; that outland spider wasn't a new NPC, it's a hat tip to the Sinking Sands epic spider.
WoW is more like EQ today, than EQ actually is today (that's what happens when devs leave a game and never evolve from the time they left it -- a syndrome gamers are aware of and label as "nostalgia"). WoW just suffers a worse case of it, as it's EQ moment is TBC.
If WoW's story is about humans and orcs, let the WoW players know when the human part begins. As Blizzard's TBC and TBC orc/Thrall fondness borders on insanity (and when will they learn that definition of it with keep repeating TBC themes and now going back to TBC again, when it's the zone players keep saying they DON'T want to level through???).
Than the next WOW expansion Warlords of Draenor will be released and everyone will flock back to it. Forgetting about this thread and any new concept to an mmorpg besides end game farming/raiding.
Originally posted by Viadric Than the next WOW expansion Warlords of Draenor will be released and everyone will flock back to it. Forgetting about this thread and any new concept to an mmorpg besides end game farming/raiding.
Or more like remembering why folks hated leveling through TBC content.
Can see the experience of a level 58 at WoD release, and having to face it all over again at end-game.
Originally posted by Viadric Than the next WOW expansion Warlords of Draenor will be released and everyone will flock back to it. Forgetting about this thread and any new concept to an mmorpg besides end game farming/raiding.
WoW's lost almost half it's subs in a couple of years. Doesn't that indicate to you that at least some people are a little tired of the formula?
Personally I've never understand why so many people like WoW when there are many games out there with graphics and mechanics and worlds that seem better to me but I don't understand the appeal of other popular things like Justin Bieber or Twilight either.
Comments
It's funny you say that.
WoW has millions.
Rift had a very high population when it launched. (Over 1M I believe)
SWTOR had 2M at it's launch.
FF14:ARR sold 1.5M
The list goes on.
People want WoW clones. Games that come in with the promise of delivering a WoW like experience sell boxes. They lose the players when the population discovers that game isn't like WoW. The games that were closer to the mark had better success than those that didn't
All the people on these boards who say "WoW clones fail" have it backwards. WoW clones don't fail because they are WoW clones. They fail because they aren't.
I think one major thing that is diminishing the wow syndrome is that people are "getting over" wow in many ways. People are not so interested in wow anymore, many people chanting "wow clone" has the game as a distant memory anymore, and haters are getting bored hating it. It's a relic.
It's also a big game and has a big history so there will always be people tossing around the wow related comments but it's just the buzzing of insects now, there's a relative peace in mmorpg-land and people are more interested in talking what's coming, even if the new titles have a hefty amount of wow in them.
At least that's how I like to see it. It's also very refreshing to not hear a single wow related comment these days when trying out a new game, be it F2P or a boxed game from the store, the chat channels are free of the wow curse of past times. There has been practically zero comments or comparisons to wow the past two years I've played an MMO game.
The problem is that other developers aren't learning the right lessons, not that they are or aren't making a clone of World of Warcraft. Also, you definitely have the wrong idea if you think people want clones of World of Warcraft. The reason SWTOR, Rift, FF14:ARR, and WoW sold so well is they had a setting that was interesting or had a strong franchise backing them. The numbers following three of those titles launches plummeted like a rock when people found the direction of the game was not as they envisioned.
I played the game about the same time, starting when the game launched. I got bored waiting Blizzard to evolve the game a bit, and it became apparent they are not interested in doing so probably because there's a risk of breaking the cycle that brings billions to them, if they change or innovate too much (at all) in it.
That is why the game is more or less an "entry mmorpg" imo, new players go to wow, at some point they get bored of the recycled content and mechanics in every expansion, and by the time they are out of the game same amount of new players has replaced them.
No, the games fail because people realize that the games are clones of something that they have grown bored of, if they were not bored of WoW they would not have to even search for a new game. But they are, and they find a new game, which is just like WoW so they are already bored of the game because it works identically to the game that they left, more or less. Believe me I have experience with this.
We will all only be aware of an actual shift in the way things are retrospectively. A quick search I did a few minutes ago resulting in 3-4 topics a year for the last 4 years that are exactly like this one makes me feel empirically correct in saying that. Every year or two (sometimes only 6 months apart) a lot of us become hopeful or get excited over some upcoming releases. We chant change is coming. And, then 8-12 months later only talk about how they changed nothing really, only made a small impact, or were massively disappointing.
I am willing to go out on a limb with a total guesstimate and say that 90% of the time, true change in the genre happens over the course of several years in small and almost imperceptible increments. And, to the best of my recollection. No one has ever accurately predicted a big thing happening or what the effects of that event would be. It's all in reflection that we realize when things did change. And, we can keep rallying for change. But, we don't get to know ahead of time that it is coming when it does.
Couldn't disagree more. I don't believe that the majority of players who bought those games expected something different. Most of these games made it perfectly clear before they released, they were they were copying WoW. SWTOR developers even said prior to release that they were after the WoW formula since it was proven to be successful. Players soaked it up. FF14 was transparent during redevelopment. Yoshi made it clear that he was using traditional mechanics before the game launched. The game launched with such an overwhelming and unanticipated success, that it actualy cause huge launch issues. Rift launched, with the slogan "We're not in Azeroth anymore" . Clearly an appeal to WoW players. It worked.
Everyone knew they were buying a new WoW. It's when they realized these games fell short of WoW's model, and didn't give them the experience they wanted, they left. Still, the closer the game was to replicating WoW's formula, the longer success it had. While in the end, Rift was no blockbuster, it was solid and had a solid subscriber base. I was an active Rift subscriber when SWTOR launched. 30-60 days, the game became flooded with SWTOR refugees. They all said the same thing. Rift was a better game. The only reason it went F2P was because Trion was in trouble but not because of Rift, they needed a quick revenue boost. FF14 is still going very strong. And of course, WoW continues to be the top dog in MMORPG Theme Parks.
May be although i don't. I want other settings. That is why I am playing Marvel Heroes, and STO .. way more than GW2.
I am not trying to imply that this is what every single person who plays online games wants. I was more or less referring to those who bought (or at least wanted to buy) those games. So when I say "people" I am referring to the millions who want a good WoW clone. It's not everyone. And certainly a minority on these boards, but it's still a huge number out there in the genre.
^^This^^
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
It's not so much the model, as much as content.
To match WoW's success the new franchise has to have enough content to keep players' interest. RIFT was released and all of RIFT itself could fit into Outland. Could literally walk to one end of the map to the other...it was that small of a world. RIFT now has more content and matured, so now it'll have to work on features and customer service (for example, I bought 4 Rift games at the start, and could only play 2, because their messed up customer service that required browser activation [and the CS apparently couldn't understand basic English - browser>activation>won't work!]. I will never play RIFT again over it, as that's a lot of wasted money. CS is paramount to me for account issues, especially in entertainment venues. Any game with wishy-washy CS is a no-go -- that includes you too Blizzard).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
It is not a matter of what is in a game,it is more so how the game forces you to play.You can do anything you want in a game but if 99% of the players just play the game exactly like Wow,then it is a Wow clone no matter what else the game does.
Another perfect example is EQL is nothing more than a Minecraft.Sure they will eventually add combat into it,but they are already selling cash shop for this game,so they are selling a newer version of Minecraft.Furthermore the players will most likely want to play the REAL game of EQN that does leave Landmark out in the cold,no matter what Georgeson tries to say.
Really they are all Everquest clones,EQ2 did a lot better job of doing the same thing as Wow,first and with better lighting and graphics.EQ1 was really the premier flagship game for this genre,some might argue Ultima or even SWG but EQ1 was the game to judge all others.
I am really curious as to what people think is going to create a new game style in upcoming games,i still see people wandering around chasing yellow markers and doing instances,what game is doing it different?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Supporting smaller niche oriented titles that differ from the norm is one way to show what we like.
Ofcourse, as long as people say "not polished enough", "Clunky", "not AAA", etc., these smaller titles have no chance to be really successful and thus the bigger companies won't hop on the train.
So, do we really believe in "gameplay > graphics/polish"?
In the end, the market always gets what the market wants.
The big question being: how many people really want something different?
AAA budget titles need the mass market, some game-enthusiasts on a forum don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things.
My question for most of you guys are why cannot most of you not just like a game for you know it being a game? How come every game you pick up has to be generalized into if its a "wow clone" or not? How exactly does it effect your gaming if a game offers raiding or quest hubs but also has sandbox elements? I imagine most of the posters here are older as this thread seems to be pretty mature but seriously why does it matter?
When I purchase a game or read up on game I could really care less if its a sandbox or a theme park with "wow clone" features. When I buy a game I look at the combat and gameplay elements and could really care less if end game has raiding or tri realm pvp or warfronts/warzones etc. It should be about fun and not if a game has some exclaimation points over npc names. I play games like seven days to die , the dead linger, planet explorers etc. They are full sandbox survival games but I also play games like SWTOR WOW and GW2 and those are on rails theme parks. But I enjoy each of them pretty much equally at different times. The way most of the people in this thread sound they want every sort of game that has quest hubs and theme park like story gone from the genre in general which comes down IMO to maybe you guys should just stick to games you like instead of bitching about every new game that is a themepark.
If it was dead Wildstar wouldn't be at the top of many "most anticipated of 2014 mmo" lists.
I agree the term "wow clone" gets used too much, but Wildstar is indeed a wow clone. Hell even the devs and fans embrace it calling it WOW 2.0.
This is the way I see the game aswell. Wildstar isn't a "wow clone" it's a "wow vanilla clone". But then again the mechanics are very different then wow and the game it self could be fun if you like end game raiding.
The two that started WoW, were guild leaders in EQ.
So, yes, WoW is an EQ clone. There's a lot of references to EQ (and by extension EQII) in WoW, as a hat tip to EQ.
What we see today as a "WoW clone", is EQ heritage.
The only problem now with WoW is: EQ/EQII/EQN is moving on, WoW is hampered by the very engine that attracted the masses to that game. EQN will have the newer tech, while Blizzard is trying to keep a 10 year-old engine still viable, and being limited by it. The item squish coming up is a requirement, for example, as the engine reached it's computation limit. WoW will have to have a new engine to keep up, or it'll be a DOS/Windows situation in gaming. It's still the best MMORPG for the content (and some unique classes like Holy paladins -- a full time healing...paladin...impossible!!!) and some innovations unique to gaming, but it's getting old in it's routines that Blizzard stubbornly adheres too -- even EQ doesn't have ghost walks anymore, that time sinking isn't needed in a full content game anymore (worked fine in vanilla, not 5 expansions later). EQ/EQII noticed that and changed it. Blizzard is still locked into EQ's past and how EQ worked 10 years ago, so much I do believe that is their design flaw of it all. It's not flexible enough in an industry that changes yearly.
SOE is innovating the smaller details about player satisfaction (probably due to the 2005 war against players and trying to rebuild trust, for that folks can't deny they truly are offering a lot of options. Other than RIFT I don't know of another publishers bending backwards to make players happy with the little details). WoW innovates in game revolutionizing ways (e.g., LFG/LFR and other systems that changes how MMOs operate, tech like CRZ and connected realms [virtual server merges]). Each are working different sides of the MMO tech coin, so not directly competing (don't directly compete with Blizzard they're the greediest IP protectors known, and think nothing of crushing competition. Publishers have to find that niche that isn't Blizzards).
Blizzard does have one thing no other MMO is following either due to style or tools -- their characters/animations follow the Disney animation school. Pay real close attention to the model/animation changes, you'll find that if they didn't consult with Disney, they learned well. That's the level of detail Blizzard works on WHEN IT DOESN'T GUM UP GAME MECHANICS. EQN/ESO/RIFT/Wildstar and nth other MMO will completely miss that one point, and blow it. When you play a character for so long a day, and for years, it's not realism that gets your attention...it's the quirks/bugs in the animations. WoW players talk about it constantly, despite the godawful graphics and low poly models, WoW animations run smoother and don't look anime (cartoonish, but not anime with stop motion cinemagraphics). It's been an ace in Blizzard's pocket for years and so under the radar other publishers completely miss it, as they're concentrating on either the style of WoW's toons or the game mechanics that Blizzard does, when it's the Blizzard Art Academy that's Blizzard's royal flush.
Blizzard is v-e-r-y protective of it's art department (one of the excuses Blizzard used to explain to not have appearance armor, was how it would upset their artists feelings [it was hogwash, as transmorg opens more opportunities to display their handiwork, especially with selling cosmestic armor later on], but I understood what was said in between the lines -- finding and keeping the best artists and animators is difficult in a very competitive market, and the simple ego rush/morale booster of a best gear for an expansion was your design and picked).
No other MMO is doing that, and no other MMO will succeed due to it. They go niche and cross fingers, instead.
It's always...always...the little things that make a MMO great from mediocre.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
EQ Clones? There is a reason the term "WoW Clone" came about. EQ just wasn't as good as WoW. The Duryea Motor Wagon Company (Who?) was the 1st American automotive manufacturing company. Does that mean Ford cloned their stuff? Maybe, but it doesn't matter. They didn't do it better and don't deserve the recognition that Ford did. Ford simply surpassed them. Just because EQ was 1st on the scene doesn't mean they deserve anything because of it. Blizzard made a better game.
Scroll above.
WoW is indeed an EQ clone even down to the behaviors EQ became infamous for. Duskwood just didn't appear out of thin air; that outland spider wasn't a new NPC, it's a hat tip to the Sinking Sands epic spider.
WoW is more like EQ today, than EQ actually is today (that's what happens when devs leave a game and never evolve from the time they left it -- a syndrome gamers are aware of and label as "nostalgia"). WoW just suffers a worse case of it, as it's EQ moment is TBC.
If WoW's story is about humans and orcs, let the WoW players know when the human part begins. As Blizzard's TBC and TBC orc/Thrall fondness borders on insanity (and when will they learn that definition of it with keep repeating TBC themes and now going back to TBC again, when it's the zone players keep saying they DON'T want to level through???).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Or more like remembering why folks hated leveling through TBC content.
Can see the experience of a level 58 at WoD release, and having to face it all over again at end-game.
o.O
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
WoW's lost almost half it's subs in a couple of years. Doesn't that indicate to you that at least some people are a little tired of the formula?
Personally I've never understand why so many people like WoW when there are many games out there with graphics and mechanics and worlds that seem better to me but I don't understand the appeal of other popular things like Justin Bieber or Twilight either.