RPG + RTS MMORPG, the first ever on the globe (i think)
With 16 players invasion mode (each player can bring 4 troops which consist of 20-ish troop each), 140 kinds of troops with several flying and huge monster troops, the battle will be epic
In PvP department, there will be 3 modes : Hero only battle, strategic battle, and MOBA style battle
Finally it took some years to bleed it to near death, now we have plenty of MMOs in the making that is not a WoW clone and for me I find this trend most interesting.'
Go 2014
this is said in the year where one of the most anticipated games is Wildstar, which is creating by the core team who made the vanilla WoW, who try to make a new sci-fi WoW ...
I see many posters here seems to missunderstood OP intention with the post, I didn't mean WoW are dying or are dead in ny form, I mean that the formula is dead, game studios starting to experiment doing different things than just the classic themepark model.
Finally it took some years to bleed it to near death, now we have plenty of MMOs in the making that is not a WoW clone and for me I find this trend most interesting.'
Go 2014
this is said in the year where one of the most anticipated games is Wildstar, which is creating by the core team who made the vanilla WoW, who try to make a new sci-fi WoW ...
That's one game, how many WoW like MMOs where in the making from 2006-2011 then compare the ones coming 2014-2016 then you'll understand what I'm getting at.
Finally it took some years to bleed it to near death, now we have plenty of MMOs in the making that is not a WoW clone and for me I find this trend most interesting.'
Go 2014
this is said in the year where one of the most anticipated games is Wildstar, which is creating by the core team who made the vanilla WoW, who try to make a new sci-fi WoW ...
That's one game, how many WoW like MMOs where in the making from 2006-2011 then compare the ones coming 2014-2016 then you'll understand what I'm getting at.
It is enough to say that the style is not "dead".
Any sensible person wouldn't make a comment you made in your OP. It is anything but dead and it is highly unlikely to die anytime soon.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Torgrim I see many posters here seems to missunderstood OP intention with the post, I didn't mean WoW are dying or are dead in ny form, I mean that the formula is dead, game studios starting to experiment doing different things than just the classic themepark model.
The formula isn't dead, the design philosophy at Blizzard is a dinosaur, though. Stuck in 1998.
'Credit needs to be due. WoW just was lucky, as they shouldn't have been #1 but for some really DUMB decisions by SOE at the time."
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
I hate to break it to you but its not just the design decisions (progression model etc) that make or break your game. Things like gameplay, polish, voice acting, atmosphere, IP,and fun all factor into it. I played WoW, EQ and EQ2 and WoW was absolutely a step forward at the time. Why? Because it played like a high quality video game..
It had responsive controls - it felt like a quick fast paced fun game. It felt like something Nintendo would make - and I mean that as a complement. EQ had no shot. The programmers at SOE simply didn't know what they were doing. They were absolutely totally outclassed by Blizzard. And it really showed in the products.
SOE was and seems to still be amateur hour.. Sure with "Sony" involved it sounds like a fair fight. In reality it was not. Blizzard was the Rockstar games of its day.
Originally posted by Torgrim I see many posters here seems to missunderstood OP intention with the post, I didn't mean WoW are dying or are dead in ny form, I mean that the formula is dead, game studios starting to experiment doing different things than just the classic themepark model.
I totally disagree with you.
WoW is a themepark. The opposite formula is a sandbox.
There are only a handful of sandbox and semi-sandbox games.
Games with a different formula to WoW are: Eve Online, Perpetuum, Darkfall, MineCraft, and... and....
Finally it took some years to bleed it to near death, now we have plenty of MMOs in the making that is not a WoW clone and for me I find this trend most interesting.'
Go 2014
this is said in the year where one of the most anticipated games is Wildstar, which is creating by the core team who made the vanilla WoW, who try to make a new sci-fi WoW ...
That's one game, how many WoW like MMOs where in the making from 2006-2011 then compare the ones coming 2014-2016 then you'll understand what I'm getting at.
It is enough to say that the style is not "dead".
Any sensible person wouldn't make a comment you made in your OP. It is anything but dead and it is highly unlikely to die anytime soon.
Thats why all those WoW "clones" doing so well right?
Originally posted by Torgrim I see many posters here seems to missunderstood OP intention with the post, I didn't mean WoW are dying or are dead in ny form, I mean that the formula is dead, game studios starting to experiment doing different things than just the classic themepark model.
I totally disagree with you.
WoW is a themepark. The opposite formula is a sandbox.
There are only a handful of sandbox and semi-sandbox games.
Games with a different formula to WoW are: Eve Online, Perpetuum, Darkfall, MineCraft, and... and....
Do you see?
There are no such thing as black and white in MMO world, take GW2 as an example, do GW2 have endgame raids, trinity, locked quest hub progression, endgame raiding, take ESO, does that game have the same game mechanic as WoW,? hell even look at Everquest Next?
No they dont, they are similar but not the same, both games don't follow the WoW syndrome formula and plenty of other MMOs wont use the old EQ/WoW formula, I'ts done and dead.
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
Funny, I never heard of them until I played WoW in 2009.
When WC was being sold, and I saw the ads in the paper over it in the 90s, I associated WC with that monster dungeon game at the time (can't recall the name), since they were often paired together as sells and both of the "cute" genre.
Since I never was into those "cute" monster and anime stuff, both games were on the "don't play list".
So what you're saying is pure wishful thinking.
1998 Sierra and MS were game publishers I knew (Caesar III and AoE) and cared about. 2004 it was Bethesda with Morrowind, after the disappointment with EIDOS Deus Ex 2 (Deus Ex will always be my favorite game of all time). 2005 it was Oblivion. 2006-7 I was having fun with BF2142 (so into BF not CoD). From there it was EQII, which I played to the ground and burned out upon! And finally on Dec 1, 2009 I tried WoW, and not because of Blizzard's "fame"...It had a full time healing paladin (all the warnings I had about WoW's piss poor community over the years are 100% true. If they were ripped out of the game, WoW would be the most epic online game. The community makes that game suck).
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
Funny, I never heard of them until I played WoW in 2009.
When WC was being sold, and I saw the ads in the paper over it in the 90s, I associated WC with that monster dungeon game at the time (can't recall the name), since they were often paired together as sells and both of the "cute" genre.
Since I never was into those "cute" monster and anime stuff, both games were on the "don't play list".
So what you're saying is pure wishful thinking.
1998 Sierra and MS were game publishers I knew (Caesar III and AoE) and cared about. 2004 it was Bethesda with Morrowind, after the disappointment with EIDOS Deus Ex 2 (Deus Ex will always be my favorite game of all time). 2005 it was Oblivion. 2006-7 I was having fun with BF2142 (so into BF not CoD). From there it was EQII, which I played to the ground and burned out upon! And finally on Dec 1, 2009 I tried WoW, and not because of Blizzard's "fame"...It had a full time healing paladin (all the warnings I had about WoW's piss poor community over the years are 100% true. If they were ripped out of the game, WoW would be the most epic online game. The community makes that game suck).
I have no idea what the community is like today, but 2004-2005 the community was awesome
Originally posted by Torgrim I see many posters here seems to missunderstood OP intention with the post, I didn't mean WoW are dying or are dead in ny form, I mean that the formula is dead, game studios starting to experiment doing different things than just the classic themepark model.
I can agree with this statement. Games are trying to be different from WoW now. In ESO for example, active combat, first person view, no raids, RvR pvp, single server, characters can be radically personalize (ala tank sorcerers), etc. Sticking too close to the WoW model is a death kneel, mostly due to WoW itself being there. Why play a game similiar to WoW when I can play WoW itself.
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
Funny, I never heard of them until I played WoW in 2009.
When WC was being sold, and I saw the ads in the paper over it in the 90s, I associated WC with that monster dungeon game at the time (can't recall the name), since they were often paired together as sells and both of the "cute" genre.
Since I never was into those "cute" monster and anime stuff, both games were on the "don't play list".
So what you're saying is pure wishful thinking.
1998 Sierra and MS were game publishers I knew (Caesar III and AoE) and cared about. 2004 it was Bethesda with Morrowind, after the disappointment with EIDOS Deus Ex 2 (Deus Ex will always be my favorite game of all time). 2005 it was Oblivion. 2006-7 I was having fun with BF2142 (so into BF not CoD). From there it was EQII, which I played to the ground and burned out upon! And finally on Dec 1, 2009 I tried WoW, and not because of Blizzard's "fame"...It had a full time healing paladin (all the warnings I had about WoW's piss poor community over the years are 100% true. If they were ripped out of the game, WoW would be the most epic online game. The community makes that game suck).
I have no idea what the community is like today, but 2004-2005 the community was awesome
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
Funny, I never heard of them until I played WoW in 2009.
When WC was being sold, and I saw the ads in the paper over it in the 90s, I associated WC with that monster dungeon game at the time (can't recall the name), since they were often paired together as sells and both of the "cute" genre.
Since I never was into those "cute" monster and anime stuff, both games were on the "don't play list".
So what you're saying is pure wishful thinking.
1998 Sierra and MS were game publishers I knew (Caesar III and AoE) and cared about. 2004 it was Bethesda with Morrowind, after the disappointment with EIDOS Deus Ex 2 (Deus Ex will always be my favorite game of all time). 2005 it was Oblivion. 2006-7 I was having fun with BF2142 (so into BF not CoD). From there it was EQII, which I played to the ground and burned out upon! And finally on Dec 1, 2009 I tried WoW, and not because of Blizzard's "fame"...It had a full time healing paladin (all the warnings I had about WoW's piss poor community over the years are 100% true. If they were ripped out of the game, WoW would be the most epic online game. The community makes that game suck).
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn.
You guys don't seem to remember the day and age, even playing D&D in the 80s was "radical" to the social mores of the day. God, the parents were up in arms over it, then.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
Yeh .. just look at how many diablo clones are out there.
SC 1 & 2 are practically national sports of S Korea. Very few game companies have that many successful products. In fact, sales & review-wise, there is no failure in Blizz games (but they make very few games).
"You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn."
IYou just weren't part of a signifcant demographic. I am older then you - I suspect and again Blizzard was a power house gaming development company. They were one of the most successful gaming companies in the world and games like Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo were huge sellers and widely loved by the gaming community in general.
It was an amazing move for Blizzard - they took their most talented people and committed to a niche game style. People were like WTF? An MMO - no one plays those things..
But Blizzard showed the world that a high quality MMO with good gameplay could be quite popular. I liked EQ - as I played MUDs before. So it was a step forward - rather huge. But SOE got stuck in the deep end with the sharks. They didn't make any dumb design decisions - they just outclassed. They basically had the niche to themselves and were busy trying to exploit it with addictive time killing mechanics and instead Blizzard came along and decided to make a game that was at its core fun AND had the addictive mechanics.
Blizzard moved MMOs from virtual worlds more towards video games and alot on this forum resent this. But its moving even more in that direction with the post WoW games. TESO uses shooter style combat (though its not clear how well the engine really does this), Wildstar is going with Ratchet and Clank style combat (likely a game you never heard of either) and GW2 uses a kind of action combat light.
Post WoW is basically a fusion of more modern gaming styles with some MMO mechanics like levels, gaining gear etc. People think this will be a failure - but I think the developers are on to something. I tell you why - I played Mass Effect 3 (maybe thats a game you never heard of either - haha) and the best part of it was the multiplayer. It was fun. I won't keep you playing for years but it had superior gameplay to WoW..
This is what the new crop of MMOs want to do - better gameplay combined with the basic MMO mechanics of being able to group with mutiple players and use different builds and ramp up your power to a limited extent. The key for them though is to make sure you are working with a GOOD GAME. A new MMO should be so fun that you would want to play it even if they didn't have RPG style progression.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn.
You guys don't seem to remember the day and age, even playing D&D in the 80s was "radical" to the social mores of the day. God, the parents were up in arms over it, then.
Don't assume to know what I grew up with. You can't.
As I said, if you didn't like those games, then yeah, you prolly didn't know Blizzard.
Just don't assume everyone was in the same bubble. Other people, other bubbles.
Some of us actually played Diablo. Was fun too.
And Warcraft 2 got released very near Quake (like half a year earlier?) and sold more copies overall. Admittedly, Quake had the pre-release Test version that got a lot of circulation and had a ton of non-bought copies around, but anyway.
Just saying, if you use one as "most popular" example you can't say noone knew the other.
I loved Quake btw, will never forget the big networked weekend sessions. One of my favorite games of all times.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn.
You guys don't seem to remember the day and age, even playing D&D in the 80s was "radical" to the social mores of the day. God, the parents were up in arms over it, then.
Don't assume to know what I grew up with. You can't.
As I said, if you didn't like those games, then yeah, you prolly didn't know Blizzard.
Just don't assume everyone was in the same bubble. Other people, other bubbles.
Some of us actually played Diablo. Was fun too.
And Warcraft 2 got released very near Quake (like half a year earlier?) and sold more copies overall. Admittedly, Quake had the pre-release Test version that got a lot of circulation and had a ton of non-bought copies around, but anyway.
Just saying, if you use one as "most popular" example you can't say noone knew the other.
I loved Quake btw, will never forget the big networked weekend sessions. One of my favorite games of all times.
If you make comments like you did, yes you will be addressed upon it. I'm not a fanboi of any franchise nor publisher. I'm a gamer that play their games, not play kiss up. Certain games I just don't play, period.
They take my money, I take their game. If they provide online service for a fee, I treat them as a utility and expected the service I get from a local utility.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn.
You guys don't seem to remember the day and age, even playing D&D in the 80s was "radical" to the social mores of the day. God, the parents were up in arms over it, then.
Don't assume to know what I grew up with. You can't.
As I said, if you didn't like those games, then yeah, you prolly didn't know Blizzard.
Just don't assume everyone was in the same bubble. Other people, other bubbles.
Some of us actually played Diablo. Was fun too.
And Warcraft 2 got released very near Quake (like half a year earlier?) and sold more copies overall. Admittedly, Quake had the pre-release Test version that got a lot of circulation and had a ton of non-bought copies around, but anyway.
Just saying, if you use one as "most popular" example you can't say noone knew the other.
I loved Quake btw, will never forget the big networked weekend sessions. One of my favorite games of all times.
If you make comments like you did, yes you will be addressed upon it. I'm not a fanboi of any franchise nor publisher. I'm a gamer that play their games, not play kiss up. Certain games I just don't play, period.
They take my money, I take their game. If they provide online service for a fee, I treat them as a utility and expected the service I get from a local utility.
It's a business relationship, not a date.
Guess what I am not a fanboi of any publisher either.
I just pointed out you critized that guy although he wasn't wrong.
Originally posted by SirPKsAlot WoW is dead in the sense the doge meme is dead. It's old, over-played and people roll their eyes when it gets mentioned, but people still play it.
Rover isn't dead yet, but he's getting old and his hip is bothering him...
That's the infamous chart I was referring too, which was validated against the stock reports as being accurate, too. See the top left blue line? See the drop? That was from Ghostcrawler's "l2p" blog post -- sharpest drop in subs in WoW's history.
What Blizzard believes and who they listen too doesn't jive with reality of that (nor did Dragon Soul).
Should of went further and kept up the momentum clearing out all the below average gamers - send them back to Facebook or make a separate "social" theme park. When WoW went from early adopters to "cool" and there was an influx of below average gamers it was ruined - good for business but terrible for the genre. They have suffered ever since as the game is now one big ball of band aids after being pushed/pulled by these hyena's rather than sticking to their vision.
Originally posted by SirPKsAlot WoW is dead in the sense the doge meme is dead. It's old, over-played and people roll their eyes when it gets mentioned, but people still play it.
Rover isn't dead yet, but he's getting old and his hip is bothering him...
That's the infamous chart I was referring too, which was validated against the stock reports as being accurate, too. See the top left blue line? See the drop? That was from Ghostcrawler's "l2p" blog post -- sharpest drop in subs in WoW's history.
What Blizzard believes and who they listen too doesn't jive with reality of that (nor did Dragon Soul).
Should of went further and kept up the momentum clearing out all the below average gamers - send them back to Facebook or make a separate "social" theme park. When WoW went from early adopters to "cool" and there was an influx of below average gamers it was ruined - good for business but terrible for the genre. They have suffered ever since as the game is now one big ball of band aids after being pushed/pulled by these hyena's rather than sticking to their vision.
But WoW isn't a niche game. Blizzard casts their net wide, not narrow and deep like a niche game.
They made a design choice to attract everyone including the house cat, and that's what they'll have as a fan base. If they go "rough and tough" WoW can join EvE with 500k players.
Don't think Blizzard could swallow their pride that much to do just that -- it's all about those sub numbers now.
Originally posted by SirPKsAlot WoW is dead in the sense the doge meme is dead. It's old, over-played and people roll their eyes when it gets mentioned, but people still play it.
Rover isn't dead yet, but he's getting old and his hip is bothering him...
That's the infamous chart I was referring too, which was validated against the stock reports as being accurate, too. See the top left blue line? See the drop? That was from Ghostcrawler's "l2p" blog post -- sharpest drop in subs in WoW's history.
What Blizzard believes and who they listen too doesn't jive with reality of that (nor did Dragon Soul).
Should of went further and kept up the momentum clearing out all the below average gamers - send them back to Facebook or make a separate "social" theme park. When WoW went from early adopters to "cool" and there was an influx of below average gamers it was ruined - good for business but terrible for the genre. They have suffered ever since as the game is now one big ball of band aids after being pushed/pulled by these hyena's rather than sticking to their vision.
But WoW isn't a niche game. Blizzard casts their net wide, not narrow and deep like a niche game.
They made a design choice to attract everyone including the house cat, and that's what they'll have as a fan base. If they go "rough and tough" WoW can join EvE with 500k players.
Don't think Blizzard could swallow their pride that much to do just that -- it's all about those sub numbers now.
I agree. They casted their net much wider than others dared to at that time, and it payed off financially.
Those players who wanted more niche gameplay got left in the dust in the process.
Originally posted by Jafotron Agree, some cool new ideas with upcoming games, defo will try each one, but knowing some people they will try to label it a "Wow clone" just because it has quests or raids
The thing that I find most interesting about the term "wow clone" is the fact that WoW was an "Everquest clone".
Comments
I'm giving my hope in Kingdom Under Fire II
RPG + RTS MMORPG, the first ever on the globe (i think)
With 16 players invasion mode (each player can bring 4 troops which consist of 20-ish troop each), 140 kinds of troops with several flying and huge monster troops, the battle will be epic
In PvP department, there will be 3 modes : Hero only battle, strategic battle, and MOBA style battle
this is said in the year where one of the most anticipated games is Wildstar, which is creating by the core team who made the vanilla WoW, who try to make a new sci-fi WoW ...
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
That's one game, how many WoW like MMOs where in the making from 2006-2011 then compare the ones coming 2014-2016 then you'll understand what I'm getting at.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
It is enough to say that the style is not "dead".
Any sensible person wouldn't make a comment you made in your OP. It is anything but dead and it is highly unlikely to die anytime soon.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The formula isn't dead, the design philosophy at Blizzard is a dinosaur, though. Stuck in 1998.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
'Credit needs to be due. WoW just was lucky, as they shouldn't have been #1 but for some really DUMB decisions by SOE at the time."
Are you kidding? I mean seriously? At the time World of Warcraft game out Blizzard was already known as one of the best development studios in the entire world. A top quality company producing top quality high quality software.
I hate to break it to you but its not just the design decisions (progression model etc) that make or break your game. Things like gameplay, polish, voice acting, atmosphere, IP,and fun all factor into it. I played WoW, EQ and EQ2 and WoW was absolutely a step forward at the time. Why? Because it played like a high quality video game..
It had responsive controls - it felt like a quick fast paced fun game. It felt like something Nintendo would make - and I mean that as a complement. EQ had no shot. The programmers at SOE simply didn't know what they were doing. They were absolutely totally outclassed by Blizzard. And it really showed in the products.
SOE was and seems to still be amateur hour.. Sure with "Sony" involved it sounds like a fair fight. In reality it was not. Blizzard was the Rockstar games of its day.
I totally disagree with you.
WoW is a themepark. The opposite formula is a sandbox.
There are only a handful of sandbox and semi-sandbox games.
Games with a different formula to WoW are: Eve Online, Perpetuum, Darkfall, MineCraft, and... and....
Do you see?
Thats why all those WoW "clones" doing so well right?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
There are no such thing as black and white in MMO world, take GW2 as an example, do GW2 have endgame raids, trinity, locked quest hub progression, endgame raiding, take ESO, does that game have the same game mechanic as WoW,? hell even look at Everquest Next?
No they dont, they are similar but not the same, both games don't follow the WoW syndrome formula and plenty of other MMOs wont use the old EQ/WoW formula, I'ts done and dead.
Do you see?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Funny, I never heard of them until I played WoW in 2009.
When WC was being sold, and I saw the ads in the paper over it in the 90s, I associated WC with that monster dungeon game at the time (can't recall the name), since they were often paired together as sells and both of the "cute" genre.
Since I never was into those "cute" monster and anime stuff, both games were on the "don't play list".
So what you're saying is pure wishful thinking.
1998 Sierra and MS were game publishers I knew (Caesar III and AoE) and cared about. 2004 it was Bethesda with Morrowind, after the disappointment with EIDOS Deus Ex 2 (Deus Ex will always be my favorite game of all time). 2005 it was Oblivion. 2006-7 I was having fun with BF2142 (so into BF not CoD). From there it was EQII, which I played to the ground and burned out upon! And finally on Dec 1, 2009 I tried WoW, and not because of Blizzard's "fame"...It had a full time healing paladin (all the warnings I had about WoW's piss poor community over the years are 100% true. If they were ripped out of the game, WoW would be the most epic online game. The community makes that game suck).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I have no idea what the community is like today, but 2004-2005 the community was awesome
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I can agree with this statement. Games are trying to be different from WoW now. In ESO for example, active combat, first person view, no raids, RvR pvp, single server, characters can be radically personalize (ala tank sorcerers), etc. Sticking too close to the WoW model is a death kneel, mostly due to WoW itself being there. Why play a game similiar to WoW when I can play WoW itself.
Where you that huntard?
Because even in vanilla WoW had them. -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
You didn't like their style of games so you overlooked them. Bias, we all do it.
GuyClinch is right in this case, Blizzard was hugely successful and respected long before WoW.
Don't forget little games like StarCraft. In the top 10 best selling PC games of all time.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 & Diablo 1 and 2 all sold in the millions too.
And I remember they were known not just for sales but also for high polish and quality. They just built on that foundation with WoW. Good for them.
You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn.
You guys don't seem to remember the day and age, even playing D&D in the 80s was "radical" to the social mores of the day. God, the parents were up in arms over it, then.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Yeh .. just look at how many diablo clones are out there.
SC 1 & 2 are practically national sports of S Korea. Very few game companies have that many successful products. In fact, sales & review-wise, there is no failure in Blizz games (but they make very few games).
"You have to understand at the time the publishers players grew up with...weren't Blizzard. If you told me about Diablo, I'd say, "What?". If you told me about WC, I'd say "Isn't that the cute dungeon game?" Blizzard had no meaning, when Quake and DOOM were the most popular at the time, and that's what folks talked about and magazine splashed (will never forget that Quake ad of a typical gamer's bedroom). Not hellish dungeon games parents would burn on the BBQ grill as works of the devil! lol Crap, I got Hexxan at a flea market sale, as buying it in the store was like trying to buy p0rn."
IYou just weren't part of a signifcant demographic. I am older then you - I suspect and again Blizzard was a power house gaming development company. They were one of the most successful gaming companies in the world and games like Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo were huge sellers and widely loved by the gaming community in general.
It was an amazing move for Blizzard - they took their most talented people and committed to a niche game style. People were like WTF? An MMO - no one plays those things..
But Blizzard showed the world that a high quality MMO with good gameplay could be quite popular. I liked EQ - as I played MUDs before. So it was a step forward - rather huge. But SOE got stuck in the deep end with the sharks. They didn't make any dumb design decisions - they just outclassed. They basically had the niche to themselves and were busy trying to exploit it with addictive time killing mechanics and instead Blizzard came along and decided to make a game that was at its core fun AND had the addictive mechanics.
Blizzard moved MMOs from virtual worlds more towards video games and alot on this forum resent this. But its moving even more in that direction with the post WoW games. TESO uses shooter style combat (though its not clear how well the engine really does this), Wildstar is going with Ratchet and Clank style combat (likely a game you never heard of either) and GW2 uses a kind of action combat light.
Post WoW is basically a fusion of more modern gaming styles with some MMO mechanics like levels, gaining gear etc. People think this will be a failure - but I think the developers are on to something. I tell you why - I played Mass Effect 3 (maybe thats a game you never heard of either - haha) and the best part of it was the multiplayer. It was fun. I won't keep you playing for years but it had superior gameplay to WoW..
This is what the new crop of MMOs want to do - better gameplay combined with the basic MMO mechanics of being able to group with mutiple players and use different builds and ramp up your power to a limited extent. The key for them though is to make sure you are working with a GOOD GAME. A new MMO should be so fun that you would want to play it even if they didn't have RPG style progression.
Don't assume to know what I grew up with. You can't.
As I said, if you didn't like those games, then yeah, you prolly didn't know Blizzard.
Just don't assume everyone was in the same bubble. Other people, other bubbles.
Some of us actually played Diablo. Was fun too.
And Warcraft 2 got released very near Quake (like half a year earlier?) and sold more copies overall. Admittedly, Quake had the pre-release Test version that got a lot of circulation and had a ton of non-bought copies around, but anyway.
Just saying, if you use one as "most popular" example you can't say noone knew the other.
I loved Quake btw, will never forget the big networked weekend sessions. One of my favorite games of all times.
If you make comments like you did, yes you will be addressed upon it. I'm not a fanboi of any franchise nor publisher. I'm a gamer that play their games, not play kiss up. Certain games I just don't play, period.
They take my money, I take their game. If they provide online service for a fee, I treat them as a utility and expected the service I get from a local utility.
It's a business relationship, not a date.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Guess what I am not a fanboi of any publisher either.
I just pointed out you critized that guy although he wasn't wrong.
Should of went further and kept up the momentum clearing out all the below average gamers - send them back to Facebook or make a separate "social" theme park. When WoW went from early adopters to "cool" and there was an influx of below average gamers it was ruined - good for business but terrible for the genre. They have suffered ever since as the game is now one big ball of band aids after being pushed/pulled by these hyena's rather than sticking to their vision.
But WoW isn't a niche game. Blizzard casts their net wide, not narrow and deep like a niche game.
They made a design choice to attract everyone including the house cat, and that's what they'll have as a fan base. If they go "rough and tough" WoW can join EvE with 500k players.
Don't think Blizzard could swallow their pride that much to do just that -- it's all about those sub numbers now.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I agree. They casted their net much wider than others dared to at that time, and it payed off financially.
Those players who wanted more niche gameplay got left in the dust in the process.
The thing that I find most interesting about the term "wow clone" is the fact that WoW was an "Everquest clone".