Well I was excited but I believe the developers embracing full modifications will end up destroying the long term viability.
Have you seen some of these pvp mods yet? I know it is still in beta and the devs might block a lot of these, but if not mods will smother and run off half of their possible playerbase.
There has been a shitstorm debate on the official forums so you would think the developers would weigh in and quell the fears and at least announce the scope of these mods but we haven't heard a peep about it. They just have their forum moderators instantly lock these discussions and ban people that try to post new threads about it.
I asked in a post in a very benign way a simple question. "Will my character info be private or public?"
Of course we know that you can target me and see my name, level possibly and my health.
This thread was instantly locked by a moderator.
There currently is a mod seen in pvp videos that show your level, class, health, mana pool, stamina pool, what buffs and debuffs you have on with timers, if you have drank a poition and its effects, if you are a vamp or werewolf, what you are casting or are ready to cast and when to block and interrupt skills and spells.
I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games...
What nightmare? The one in the imagination of people who will complain about anything just to complain?
Add ons in WoW have helped it have one of the best, if not the best UIs ever created in any gaming. All these years later and developers still can't manage to provide the same richness and depth.
Providing users with more customization is a good thing. A very good thing.
People who dislike Add ons are entitled to their opinions, even when they're completely ridiculous, illogical, and flat out wrong, but they're still ridiculous, illogical, and flat out wrong.
Besides, what's going to kill ESO is the fact that it's an abomination, a terrible idea for a game, and a weak game. People will buy it, people will bail, sites like this will fawn over it while it's popular and gets them page hits and revenue and will bemoan it (very much) like SWTOR when it ultimately starts losing people in droves (when they, soloists forcing their way into MMORPGs, are done with the single player portion of the game and there's nothing left for them to do - as is the norm with poorly designed modern MMORPGs).
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
There currently is a mod seen in pvp videos that show your level, class, health, mana pool, stamina pool, what buffs and debuffs you have on with timers, if you have drank a poition and its effects, if you are a vamp or werewolf, what you are casting or are ready to cast and when to block and interrupt skills and spells.
Do you want to pvp with someone using this mod?
Oh just you wait! Some idiot with no interest in "fair competition" and who has never played PvP of their life is going to come here and write:
"Nobody is forcing *you* to use the mod! Me? I will be doing only PvE and crafting. See I need no mod for that! You must be unskilled!"
I didnt gloss over anything, you are simply trying to paint a picture that mods have a far more wide reaching impact than they do.
Devs may occasionally incorporate functionality from mods where they are so well done that it's a no brainer to copy them. A bit like how most MMORPGs get most of their ideas from copying the best of the rest.
Devs have never been in a situation whereby development decisions have to factor in impact associated with un-official, third party mods however, which is the picture you try to paint.
Finally, ESO was originally developed as a PC game first and foremost, not a console port, therefore pulling 14% sales figure out is kind of a moot point. The game was advertised as being a PC game and not a port therefore it is expected to have all the polish and functionality that comes as standard with a PC game.
a PC game is a PC game and should be judged as a PC game. Not judged against a console equivalent because it suits your point of view.
I'm not over reaching anything. You are overly downplaying it. If it were not an issue there wouldn't be so many threads on it. There wouldn't be people writing letters to the developers.
Middle ground is required.
Stamp it through your thick skull. We want developer feedback and we want this to be balanced and fair.
Well I was excited but I believe the developers embracing full modifications will end up destroying the long term viability.
Have you seen some of these pvp mods yet? I know it is still in beta and the devs might block a lot of these, but if not mods will smother and run off half of their possible playerbase.
There has been a shitstorm debate on the official forums so you would think the developers would weigh in and quell the fears and at least announce the scope of these mods but we haven't heard a peep about it. They just have their forum moderators instantly lock these discussions and ban people that try to post new threads about it.
I asked in a post in a very benign way a simple question. "Will my character info be private or public?"
Of course we know that you can target me and see my name, level possibly and my health.
This thread was instantly locked by a moderator.
There currently is a mod seen in pvp videos that show your level, class, health, mana pool, stamina pool, what buffs and debuffs you have on with timers, if you have drank a poition and its effects, if you are a vamp or werewolf, what you are casting or are ready to cast and when to block and interrupt skills and spells.
Do you want to pvp with someone using this mod?
I do not believe that mods have been responsible for driving off half their possible playerbase. In any MMORPG. Ever.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support this claim? Or is it just pure speculation based on your personal dislike of PvP focused addons in general, with some sensationalism and hyperbole thrown in for good measure?
I didnt gloss over anything, you are simply trying to paint a picture that mods have a far more wide reaching impact than they do.
Devs may occasionally incorporate functionality from mods where they are so well done that it's a no brainer to copy them. A bit like how most MMORPGs get most of their ideas from copying the best of the rest.
Devs have never been in a situation whereby development decisions have to factor in impact associated with un-official, third party mods however, which is the picture you try to paint.
Finally, ESO was originally developed as a PC game first and foremost, not a console port, therefore pulling 14% sales figure out is kind of a moot point. The game was advertised as being a PC game and not a port therefore it is expected to have all the polish and functionality that comes as standard with a PC game.
a PC game is a PC game and should be judged as a PC game. Not judged against a console equivalent because it suits your point of view.
I'm not over reaching anything. You are overly downplaying it. If it were not an issue there wouldn't be so many threads on it. There wouldn't be people writing letters to the developers.
Middle ground is required.
Stamp it through your thick skull. We want developer feedback and we want this to be balanced and fair.
Wow...is that how you would address the developers as well? Or do you reserve flat out insults and attacks only for people who hold a differing opinion to your own? Very mature. A great example of this games likely community I am sure.
Looks like you already have your answer. Somebody was able to post a quote in one of the threads that confirmed comprehensive mod support via .LUA scripting has ALWAYS been supported and in the plans.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
It appears that addons have comprehensive support via the API and have always been intended to have comprehensive support via the API. You cannot cite one example of a game that has "died" due to the use of addons or even one example of a game that has suffered a majot sub hit due to the use of addons.
I have already pointed out that addon so not equal less cheating, or less elitism or even a cluttered UI. The devs have given all players the same options and opportunities within the framework, therefore the only person who will dis-advantage you is you...
The precedent seems clear...the direction seems clear...if this is such a gamebreaking issue then perhaps this is not the game for you. There are plenty of other games out there to choose from....
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
Well I was excited but I believe the developers embracing full modifications will end up destroying the long term viability.
Have you seen some of these pvp mods yet? I know it is still in beta and the devs might block a lot of these, but if not mods will smother and run off half of their possible playerbase.
There has been a shitstorm debate on the official forums so you would think the developers would weigh in and quell the fears and at least announce the scope of these mods but we haven't heard a peep about it. They just have their forum moderators instantly lock these discussions and ban people that try to post new threads about it.
I asked in a post in a very benign way a simple question. "Will my character info be private or public?"
Of course we know that you can target me and see my name, level possibly and my health.
This thread was instantly locked by a moderator.
There currently is a mod seen in pvp videos that show your level, class, health, mana pool, stamina pool, what buffs and debuffs you have on with timers, if you have drank a poition and its effects, if you are a vamp or werewolf, what you are casting or are ready to cast and when to block and interrupt skills and spells.
Do you want to pvp with someone using this mod?
I do not believe that mods have been responsible for driving off half their possible playerbase. In any MMORPG. Ever.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support this claim? Or is it just pure speculation based on your personal dislike of PvP focused addons in general, with some sensationalism and hyperbole thrown in for good measure?
Driz
Here is just one example of one of the mods I mentioned. Most of the videos have been removed and taken down because of the huge debate going on and fear these videos will cause the api info to be censored which is what these mods developers do not want.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
If that was remotely true you would have a point.
We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.
I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.
Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out
Add-ons will not affect the game for me at all. If they are there and allowed, I will use them as well to put myself on even footing. If they are not allowed, I won't use them and I would expect it to be enforced as to have even footing. Doesn't matter one lick to me either way.
Well all I want is a definitive answer from the devs on these pvp cheat mods. Their lack of response makes me think they are trying to maximize box sales prior to launch.
After launch people that realize the pvp is a joke with the mods therefore the endgame is a joke will leave but at least they made the profit from the sale.
I didnt gloss over anything, you are simply trying to paint a picture that mods have a far more wide reaching impact than they do.
Devs may occasionally incorporate functionality from mods where they are so well done that it's a no brainer to copy them. A bit like how most MMORPGs get most of their ideas from copying the best of the rest.
Devs have never been in a situation whereby development decisions have to factor in impact associated with un-official, third party mods however, which is the picture you try to paint.
Finally, ESO was originally developed as a PC game first and foremost, not a console port, therefore pulling 14% sales figure out is kind of a moot point. The game was advertised as being a PC game and not a port therefore it is expected to have all the polish and functionality that comes as standard with a PC game.
a PC game is a PC game and should be judged as a PC game. Not judged against a console equivalent because it suits your point of view.
I'm not over reaching anything. You are overly downplaying it. If it were not an issue there wouldn't be so many threads on it. There wouldn't be people writing letters to the developers.
Middle ground is required.
Stamp it through your thick skull. We want developer feedback and we want this to be balanced and fair.
Wow...is that how you would address the developers as well? Or do you reserve flat out insults and attacks only for people who hold a differing opinion to your own? Very mature. A great example of this games likely community I am sure.
Looks like you already have your answer. Somebody was able to post a quote in one of the threads that confirmed comprehensive mod support via .LUA scripting has ALWAYS been supported and in the plans.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
It appears that addons have comprehensive support via the API and have always been intended to have comprehensive support via the API. You cannot cite one example of a game that has "died" due to the use of addons or even one example of a game that has suffered a majot sub hit due to the use of addons.
I have already pointed out that addon so not equal less cheating, or less elitism or even a cluttered UI. The devs have given all players the same options and opportunities within the framework, therefore the only person who will dis-advantage you is you...
The precedent seems clear...the direction seems clear...if this is such a gamebreaking issue then perhaps this is not the game for you. There are plenty of other games out there to choose from....
Driz
And maybe if people will be more vocal devs will change their philosophy and make this game not for you? After all you already have several games where you can clutter your display however you want. Can we have something different this time or do all games have to catter to your average taste?
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
If that was remotely true you would have a point.
We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.
There have been several polls on this topic and while forum goers are a small number overall.. Stastically they can still reflect with the masses are thinking. In the bulk of those polls people voted along the lines of "Addons allowed - but no addons that give extra information." We have gone on this several times as well. Things like seeing all of the targets resource pools (magicka and stamina). Mods that tell you when to counter. When I bring these up people fire back with, those queues are already in the game. Maybe they are, but they are also subtle. They do not include flashing lights, sirens and giant buttons flashing to tell me what to do.
I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.
That can mean anything. I already stated several times that I am fine with "certain mods". Nothing that you or the devs have stated says anything about what they will not allow. So I will continue to be vocal on all fronts. This forum, the beta forum, the Bethesda forum. Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. Until we know what the scope of this is going to be it needs to be smeared right in their face. Exactly as other issues have been and ultimately they have commented on.
Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out
Thats just what you want us to do. Forget it.. sweep it under the rug. Gee its not a big deal.
Nope, everyone here keep doing what you have been. Talk about it. Make threads. Send emails to Zen and make sure to use the /feedback option in game this weekend.
The elder scrolls always had a huge modding community. I do not see how you can appeal to the fans if you prevent modding. It has to be allowed and once you open the floodgates you cannot really try to trap the water in. It is very difficult to control this people will cheat in PvP. To win you just need better mods.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
"why are you the single person on the defense in this thread"
I count three people who either want mods or have no issue with them either way, on this page alone. The same is true throughout the thread. You discredit yourself when you resort to blatant lies. I guess you were hoping people coming into the thread at the back end would see that and just take it as fact? You know, because thats what you want them to believe.
Again I want to point out that the purpose of my post was not ANTI-mod... Mods are in the game and were planned that way from the start...
My point was what is "allowed" by way of mods... and hoping it would not dictate how the game must be played as it has done so for other games...
Some people state that modding was always a big part of the ES series and that is true, however when we look at most of the mods they are mostly visual enhancements and texture boosts, or a more PC friendly streamlined UI, in some cases they are content add ons... There are all great examples of enhancement mods.
Take a look at LOTRO (at least back in the day when I played it) their modding capability was strictly limited to basic UI themes.
When mods become necessary it is when there is an issue... I did not create this post to stymie anyone's creativity and there is some incredible talent out there in the modding community. Perhaps "kill" was a bad word to use (although it did have the dramatic effect) a better word may be "Ruin"... DBM, meters, cast bars are all examples of mods that force a particular style of game play and when the entire community if forced to have these type of mods in order to participate THIS BECOMES AN ISSUE... Now players will botch that "the game is not challenging" because mods dictate to a player exactly what they have to do, and the developers now have to create content around these mods that take the "margin of error" or "learning curve" out of an encounter.
There are some that mentioned "there are <PvP> games without mods that stil have speedhacks etc" well that is outright cheating and hacking and that argument has no place here because those cheaters will always find a way to hack and cheat their way in.
I will be using add-ons, especially ones that I feel enhance the game for me whether it is a UI enhancement or something to make elements of the game more visually appealing. I just hope Zeni limits or recognizes THEN limits add on capabilities so that players are not given certain advantages over those who do not use a particular mod for PvE OR PvP.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
If that was remotely true you would have a point.
We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.
There have been several polls on this topic and while forum goers are a small number overall.. Stastically they can still reflect with the masses are thinking. In the bulk of those polls people voted along the lines of "Addons allowed - but no addons that give extra information." We have gone on this several times as well. Things like seeing all of the targets resource pools (magicka and stamina). Mods that tell you when to counter. When I bring these up people fire back with, those queues are already in the game. Maybe they are, but they are also subtle. They do not include flashing lights, sirens and giant buttons flashing to tell me what to do.
I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.
That can mean anything. I already stated several times that I am fine with "certain mods". Nothing that you or the devs have stated says anything about what they will not allow. So I will continue to be vocal on all fronts. This forum, the beta forum, the Bethesda forum. Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. Until we know what the scope of this is going to be it needs to be smeared right in their face. Exactly as other issues have been and ultimately they have commented on.
Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out
Thats just what you want us to do. Forget it.. sweep it under the rug. Gee its not a big deal.
Nope, everyone here keep doing what you have been. Talk about it. Make threads. Send emails to Zen and make sure to use the /feedback option in game this weekend.
Riiiiiight.....and what does "extra information" mean exactly? Thats quite an expansive term
So you admit all of the data and the queues are already there in game, YOUR issue is with how audible or how visible they are? You only want these queuees to be very subtle. Great. Thats great for you.
Now what about those with poor hearing, or those that are colour blind or otherwise impaired to a degree that these ever so subtle queues are not as discernable to them? Mods and addons can help those players PvP more easily and feel included in the games community.
Why would you seek to deny these types of players from enjoying the experience as much as you? Or do you need an advantage over them by forcing them suffer subtle and easily missable queues purely so you can feel more immersed?
It's a two way street once you get into demanding things are removed simply because you don't see a benefit to them.
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
Driz
If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?
It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
Driz
If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?
It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?
I can categorically state that I would have absolutely zero problem with someone developing a privacy mod and you using it. Once more for clarity, zero problem. In fact more power to you.
If I even buy the game and I chose to use some or all of the mods that are available and sanctioned within the ToS, I would be using them for my own benefit and no one elses.
I could care less whether 1 or 1,000,000 people use them or don't use them. I PvP predominantly for fun and do not get caught up on HAVING to be elite...I just like the additional functionality that mods can provide, especially if the games default UI and combat feedback leaves much to be desired as ESO's seems to.
What I take exception to is those that try and force others to "play it my way or not at all..."
I think the one point we would not see eye to eye on is that I DO believe if everyone has access to the same options and opportunities, but you personally choose not to use them where others do, it is not the mod that is disadvantaging you. It is you that is choosing to disadvantage you.
You cannot be at a dis-advantage when you have access to all of the exact same options and opportunities that 100% of the playerbase has access to. That IS a level playing field.
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?
It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?
Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?
It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?
Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.
So everyone that disagrees with you, or has an alternative opinion is lying, as well as being thick.
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
None of your objections or claims are quantifiable either, so by your rationale you can make up anything you want right?
Comments
Well I was excited but I believe the developers embracing full modifications will end up destroying the long term viability.
Have you seen some of these pvp mods yet? I know it is still in beta and the devs might block a lot of these, but if not mods will smother and run off half of their possible playerbase.
There has been a shitstorm debate on the official forums so you would think the developers would weigh in and quell the fears and at least announce the scope of these mods but we haven't heard a peep about it. They just have their forum moderators instantly lock these discussions and ban people that try to post new threads about it.
I asked in a post in a very benign way a simple question. "Will my character info be private or public?"
Of course we know that you can target me and see my name, level possibly and my health.
This thread was instantly locked by a moderator.
There currently is a mod seen in pvp videos that show your level, class, health, mana pool, stamina pool, what buffs and debuffs you have on with timers, if you have drank a poition and its effects, if you are a vamp or werewolf, what you are casting or are ready to cast and when to block and interrupt skills and spells.
Do you want to pvp with someone using this mod?
Life IS Feudal
What nightmare? The one in the imagination of people who will complain about anything just to complain?
Add ons in WoW have helped it have one of the best, if not the best UIs ever created in any gaming. All these years later and developers still can't manage to provide the same richness and depth.
Providing users with more customization is a good thing. A very good thing.
People who dislike Add ons are entitled to their opinions, even when they're completely ridiculous, illogical, and flat out wrong, but they're still ridiculous, illogical, and flat out wrong.
Besides, what's going to kill ESO is the fact that it's an abomination, a terrible idea for a game, and a weak game. People will buy it, people will bail, sites like this will fawn over it while it's popular and gets them page hits and revenue and will bemoan it (very much) like SWTOR when it ultimately starts losing people in droves (when they, soloists forcing their way into MMORPGs, are done with the single player portion of the game and there's nothing left for them to do - as is the norm with poorly designed modern MMORPGs).
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Oh just you wait! Some idiot with no interest in "fair competition" and who has never played PvP of their life is going to come here and write:
"Nobody is forcing *you* to use the mod! Me? I will be doing only PvE and crafting. See I need no mod for that! You must be unskilled!"
I'm not over reaching anything. You are overly downplaying it. If it were not an issue there wouldn't be so many threads on it. There wouldn't be people writing letters to the developers.
Middle ground is required.
Stamp it through your thick skull. We want developer feedback and we want this to be balanced and fair.
I do not believe that mods have been responsible for driving off half their possible playerbase. In any MMORPG. Ever.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support this claim? Or is it just pure speculation based on your personal dislike of PvP focused addons in general, with some sensationalism and hyperbole thrown in for good measure?
Driz
Wow...is that how you would address the developers as well? Or do you reserve flat out insults and attacks only for people who hold a differing opinion to your own? Very mature. A great example of this games likely community I am sure.
Looks like you already have your answer. Somebody was able to post a quote in one of the threads that confirmed comprehensive mod support via .LUA scripting has ALWAYS been supported and in the plans.
It is a very small minority indeed that has an issue with mods and addons, therefore the devs would be silly to deny much requested content and functionality based on the demands and cries of a vocal minority. Perhaps that is why they are locking those threads?
It appears that addons have comprehensive support via the API and have always been intended to have comprehensive support via the API. You cannot cite one example of a game that has "died" due to the use of addons or even one example of a game that has suffered a majot sub hit due to the use of addons.
I have already pointed out that addon so not equal less cheating, or less elitism or even a cluttered UI. The devs have given all players the same options and opportunities within the framework, therefore the only person who will dis-advantage you is you...
The precedent seems clear...the direction seems clear...if this is such a gamebreaking issue then perhaps this is not the game for you. There are plenty of other games out there to choose from....
Driz
If we are the minority why are you the single person on the defense in this thread. Could it be you are wrong?
Players have 2 options.
1. They allow addons.
2. They don't allow addons and people use them anyways.
At the end of the day, both outcomes are the same.
Here is just one example of one of the mods I mentioned. Most of the videos have been removed and taken down because of the huge debate going on and fear these videos will cause the api info to be censored which is what these mods developers do not want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BFbBMW2ZGM
Also I know a lot of these pvp mods have been upgraded and will be released for testing in this upcoming beta this weekend.
They are keeping quiet now and not posting any videos now on these cheat mods because they are trying to protect them from scrutiny.
Life IS Feudal
They can close off hooks that will prevent certain functionality in addons. It isn't some simple task to work around this.
People that go the distance to cheat are not your average cheaters anyways. They would be running things like radar hacks or speed hacks.
If that was remotely true you would have a point.
We both know it isn't though and so does anyone having a casual read of this thread or any of the other threads on the same topic.
I love how you ignored every other point in my post. The devs HAVE stated that comprehensive .LUA support was a commitment from the beginning. Mods and addons WILL be supported in the live game. You WILL have to use maybe one or two must have mods to stay competetive.
Looks like you will have to find a way to deal with it or, if its as gamebreaking as you claim, move on and find a game that does not support mods at all. SWTOR might be one to try out
Driz
Well all I want is a definitive answer from the devs on these pvp cheat mods. Their lack of response makes me think they are trying to maximize box sales prior to launch.
After launch people that realize the pvp is a joke with the mods therefore the endgame is a joke will leave but at least they made the profit from the sale.
Life IS Feudal
Whats funny is I asked for a privacy mod that blocked all my info except the basic availble stuff you should see about my character.
They are terrified of the thought of that.
Life IS Feudal
So my taste differs to yours it becomes "average"? Perhaps, as you are very much in a minority of those that have such a huge problem with addons, you are the one with only average taste?
The vast majority of PvE players will be fine with it or wont have a preference either way. Almost ALL competetive PvPers will expect mods. I have no preference either way.
I am just not so blinkered that I demand content and functionality is taken away from others simply because I do not see value in it. More options is always better than less options. To deny this is simply rediculous.
How would you feel if people started petitioning the devs to remove content you especially enjoy simply because others do not enjoy it?
Driz
There have been several polls on this topic and while forum goers are a small number overall.. Stastically they can still reflect with the masses are thinking. In the bulk of those polls people voted along the lines of "Addons allowed - but no addons that give extra information." We have gone on this several times as well. Things like seeing all of the targets resource pools (magicka and stamina). Mods that tell you when to counter. When I bring these up people fire back with, those queues are already in the game. Maybe they are, but they are also subtle. They do not include flashing lights, sirens and giant buttons flashing to tell me what to do.
That can mean anything. I already stated several times that I am fine with "certain mods". Nothing that you or the devs have stated says anything about what they will not allow. So I will continue to be vocal on all fronts. This forum, the beta forum, the Bethesda forum. Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. Until we know what the scope of this is going to be it needs to be smeared right in their face. Exactly as other issues have been and ultimately they have commented on.
Thats just what you want us to do. Forget it.. sweep it under the rug. Gee its not a big deal.
Nope, everyone here keep doing what you have been. Talk about it. Make threads. Send emails to Zen and make sure to use the /feedback option in game this weekend.
The elder scrolls always had a huge modding community. I do not see how you can appeal to the fans if you prevent modding. It has to be allowed and once you open the floodgates you cannot really try to trap the water in. It is very difficult to control this people will cheat in PvP. To win you just need better mods.
"why are you the single person on the defense in this thread"
I count three people who either want mods or have no issue with them either way, on this page alone. The same is true throughout the thread. You discredit yourself when you resort to blatant lies. I guess you were hoping people coming into the thread at the back end would see that and just take it as fact? You know, because thats what you want them to believe.
Driz
Again I want to point out that the purpose of my post was not ANTI-mod... Mods are in the game and were planned that way from the start...
My point was what is "allowed" by way of mods... and hoping it would not dictate how the game must be played as it has done so for other games...
Some people state that modding was always a big part of the ES series and that is true, however when we look at most of the mods they are mostly visual enhancements and texture boosts, or a more PC friendly streamlined UI, in some cases they are content add ons... There are all great examples of enhancement mods.
Take a look at LOTRO (at least back in the day when I played it) their modding capability was strictly limited to basic UI themes.
When mods become necessary it is when there is an issue... I did not create this post to stymie anyone's creativity and there is some incredible talent out there in the modding community. Perhaps "kill" was a bad word to use (although it did have the dramatic effect) a better word may be "Ruin"... DBM, meters, cast bars are all examples of mods that force a particular style of game play and when the entire community if forced to have these type of mods in order to participate THIS BECOMES AN ISSUE... Now players will botch that "the game is not challenging" because mods dictate to a player exactly what they have to do, and the developers now have to create content around these mods that take the "margin of error" or "learning curve" out of an encounter.
There are some that mentioned "there are <PvP> games without mods that stil have speedhacks etc" well that is outright cheating and hacking and that argument has no place here because those cheaters will always find a way to hack and cheat their way in.
I will be using add-ons, especially ones that I feel enhance the game for me whether it is a UI enhancement or something to make elements of the game more visually appealing. I just hope Zeni limits or recognizes THEN limits add on capabilities so that players are not given certain advantages over those who do not use a particular mod for PvE OR PvP.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Riiiiiight.....and what does "extra information" mean exactly? Thats quite an expansive term
So you admit all of the data and the queues are already there in game, YOUR issue is with how audible or how visible they are? You only want these queuees to be very subtle. Great. Thats great for you.
Now what about those with poor hearing, or those that are colour blind or otherwise impaired to a degree that these ever so subtle queues are not as discernable to them? Mods and addons can help those players PvP more easily and feel included in the games community.
Why would you seek to deny these types of players from enjoying the experience as much as you? Or do you need an advantage over them by forcing them suffer subtle and easily missable queues purely so you can feel more immersed?
It's a two way street once you get into demanding things are removed simply because you don't see a benefit to them.
Driz
If this is your position you wouldn't mind my privacy mod then would you?
It would allow complete freedom of use of these questionable cheat mods wouldn't you agree?
Life IS Feudal
I can categorically state that I would have absolutely zero problem with someone developing a privacy mod and you using it. Once more for clarity, zero problem. In fact more power to you.
If I even buy the game and I chose to use some or all of the mods that are available and sanctioned within the ToS, I would be using them for my own benefit and no one elses.
I could care less whether 1 or 1,000,000 people use them or don't use them. I PvP predominantly for fun and do not get caught up on HAVING to be elite...I just like the additional functionality that mods can provide, especially if the games default UI and combat feedback leaves much to be desired as ESO's seems to.
What I take exception to is those that try and force others to "play it my way or not at all..."
I think the one point we would not see eye to eye on is that I DO believe if everyone has access to the same options and opportunities, but you personally choose not to use them where others do, it is not the mod that is disadvantaging you. It is you that is choosing to disadvantage you.
You cannot be at a dis-advantage when you have access to all of the exact same options and opportunities that 100% of the playerbase has access to. That IS a level playing field.
Driz
I quit Rift and WoW because of the unrealistic demand players made to others almost insisting on having ADD-ONs.
UI changes are ok but the DPS meters and gear checks were just garbage and ruined the community as a whole.
Lolipops !
Problem is that is not possible and most people know it is not possible. So they can comment as they see fit.
So everyone that disagrees with you, or has an alternative opinion is lying, as well as being thick.
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
None of your objections or claims are quantifiable either, so by your rationale you can make up anything you want right?
Driz