People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.
Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.
Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.
It's not just about you, it's an MMO where in a group setting you should be prepared to accommodate the needs of others, especially the group as a whole.
It's the same with roleplaying in real life, or playing a game of D&D: you always play to maximize the fun of everyone involved, not just yourself.
"Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others."
Thats pretty explicit.
They have designed the game with addon support and a comprehensive API because they WANT us to mod it. They WANT us to "play the ui" [mod edit]
So as long as we dont force you to use any addons you dislike (which we are not, never have and never could) we are golden.
People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.
Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.
Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.
Lol, whatever.
You can track performance based on a corpse on the ground.
Lots of people enjoy the challenge of playing what you call "sub-optimal" spec. The true measure is in a group that can go in and use skill and teamwork to defeat an encounter with fewer numbers in the group, or with a non cookie-cutter template classes.
If you want to use spread sheets to force people to play some predetermined template that you approve of, go become an accountant or something.
Approaching your 40s does not give you some badge of honor. I am in your same range, as are the people I play with, some being much older and more experienced than you. If you came into our group whining about add-ons and tracking numbers, prepared to be kicked yourself, right back to WoW.
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
Apparently there are people who like to play sub-optimal builds so be prepared to get kicked after trying to enforce your addons.
Yet the people who hate add-ons are a vocal minority, so I wouldn't expect to get kicked at all.
See WoW.
I isn't a vocal minority, though. The polls on the beta show it's about half and half. There's enough reason to not warrant add-ons in the game that offer clear advantages.
"Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others."
Thats pretty explicit.
They have designed the game with addon support and a comprehensive API because they WANT us to mod it. They WANT us to "play the ui" [mod edit]
So as long as we dont force you to use any addons you dislike (which we are not, never have and never could) we are golden.
Yes there are plenty of add-ons. They've been linked to in this very thread, even. If your add-on forces me to use a similar add-on just to stay competitive... it IS making our choice for us. That's all there is to it. The devs have spoken on this issue. Your API access is going to be far more limited than it was in Beta. Deal with it.
So it looks like the community is split on this one. Looking back at other MMOs, people were creating and using add-ons that other players didn't even know about! At least we all know what's out there and we can make the best of it. Of the add-ons I've seen, I personally think they are pretty damn cool!
Originally posted by LupusVai The irony is that all the people defending the PvP mod and saying that it doesn't give a bias and is perfectly fair will all also be running the privacy mod so that no one else can use the PvP mod on them. Ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy. ;-)
you're confused... i will happily be running a modified player / target frame UI mod, that shows me all said info, but i wont use the information blocker, as i dont care enough todo so... having the extra information, being able to track buffs and debuffs is a quality of life feature for me, one i prefer to play with. i dont care if other people can also see my information, i expect it in a MMO releasing in 2014.
the actual ironic part is that people are all like "i dont want to HAVE to use addons, but instead of using one that gives me the information, i'll use one that blocks the information". thats illogical no matter how you look at it.
Why are you so worried about others blocking you from seeing their "stats" ?
If i feel that having my personal character information is giving others an advantage over me, because they are using a 3rd party mod, then yes i might get a mod myself disabling your snooping mod.
It is not illogical to want to keep my privacy over others snooping into things they do not "need" to know.
Also, since you stated it i will counter it, in 2014 i think its time we get away from the over abundance of information we have on each other when it comes to a PvP situation. I think it is much more forward thinking in requiring a player to rely on there skill and not on the info graph they have displayed. Add-ons that encroach on privacy of players is an old trope brought about by lazy gamers who felt the only way to get an edge in WoW was letting a 3rd party mod play for them.
Course i do not expect you to agree with any of what i have said, i am sure you will flame me and try to belittle my opinions just like you have done to anyone else that disagrees with your opinion.
TLDR: If i have to get a 3rd party mod to keep your nose outta my business then i will force myself to get it. Does nto mean i want to have to do it, just means i want to counter-act your noseyness.
I've been very vocal about addons/mods needing to be under the microscope. I am happy with what Zenimax said and I will wait for them to take action before I campaign further (one way or the other).
Now having said that.. We need to get one thing out of the way here, because it keeps coming up.
There will be no such thing as a addon/mod that keeps your information private. This is not possible. I repeat, this is not possible! This is some silly rumor that a single person started. When another player sees your information that information is coming from the game server, not from your client. If information could be manipulated this way there would be hax and cheats galore.
Repeat after me - THERE WILL NOT BE A PRIVACY ADDON!
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
Welcome back, why did you change your user name ? I liked the last one better
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
Welcome back, why did you change your user name ? I liked the last one better
Not sure I understand what you are saying?
I only signed up today on here as my SWTOR sub has now lapsed, looking forward to switching from SWTOR to ESO
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
Welcome back, why did you change your user name ? I liked the last one better
Not sure I understand what you are saying?
I only signed up today on here as my SWTOR sub has now lapsed, looking forward to switching from SWTOR to ESO
Oh I know you do, not my business tho. If you are into that kind of stuff, enjoy it.
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
I think you should check out Wildstar. That game might be for you.
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
I think you should check out Wildstar. That game might be for you.
I've checked it out
It does have some nice features but I personally find the visuals too cartoony for my tastes. ESO has some pretty realistic looking graphics and a more open feel to it:)
Comments
People afraid of add-ons are afraid of people being able to track performance. They want to mask their competence in a black box, so people can't make them actually play the game well when it is required.
Having played MMOs since the 90's and approaching my 40's, I could not hope more for the current direction of add-ons to persist.
Do you want to play a sub-optimal spec for raiding? Be prepared to get kicked.
It's not just about you, it's an MMO where in a group setting you should be prepared to accommodate the needs of others, especially the group as a whole.
It's the same with roleplaying in real life, or playing a game of D&D: you always play to maximize the fun of everyone involved, not just yourself.
Yet the people who hate add-ons are a vocal minority, so I wouldn't expect to get kicked at all.
See WoW.
[mod edit]
"Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others."
Thats pretty explicit.
They have designed the game with addon support and a comprehensive API because they WANT us to mod it. They WANT us to "play the ui" [mod edit]
So as long as we dont force you to use any addons you dislike (which we are not, never have and never could) we are golden.
Lol, whatever.
You can track performance based on a corpse on the ground.
Lots of people enjoy the challenge of playing what you call "sub-optimal" spec. The true measure is in a group that can go in and use skill and teamwork to defeat an encounter with fewer numbers in the group, or with a non cookie-cutter template classes.
If you want to use spread sheets to force people to play some predetermined template that you approve of, go become an accountant or something.
Approaching your 40s does not give you some badge of honor. I am in your same range, as are the people I play with, some being much older and more experienced than you. If you came into our group whining about add-ons and tracking numbers, prepared to be kicked yourself, right back to WoW.
I isn't a vocal minority, though. The polls on the beta show it's about half and half. There's enough reason to not warrant add-ons in the game that offer clear advantages.
Yes there are plenty of add-ons. They've been linked to in this very thread, even. If your add-on forces me to use a similar add-on just to stay competitive... it IS making our choice for us. That's all there is to it. The devs have spoken on this issue. Your API access is going to be far more limited than it was in Beta. Deal with it.
So it looks like the community is split on this one. Looking back at other MMOs, people were creating and using add-ons that other players didn't even know about! At least we all know what's out there and we can make the best of it. Of the add-ons I've seen, I personally think they are pretty damn cool!
Why are you so worried about others blocking you from seeing their "stats" ?
If i feel that having my personal character information is giving others an advantage over me, because they are using a 3rd party mod, then yes i might get a mod myself disabling your snooping mod.
It is not illogical to want to keep my privacy over others snooping into things they do not "need" to know.
Also, since you stated it i will counter it, in 2014 i think its time we get away from the over abundance of information we have on each other when it comes to a PvP situation. I think it is much more forward thinking in requiring a player to rely on there skill and not on the info graph they have displayed. Add-ons that encroach on privacy of players is an old trope brought about by lazy gamers who felt the only way to get an edge in WoW was letting a 3rd party mod play for them.
Course i do not expect you to agree with any of what i have said, i am sure you will flame me and try to belittle my opinions just like you have done to anyone else that disagrees with your opinion.
TLDR: If i have to get a 3rd party mod to keep your nose outta my business then i will force myself to get it. Does nto mean i want to have to do it, just means i want to counter-act your noseyness.
Lolipops !
I've been very vocal about addons/mods needing to be under the microscope. I am happy with what Zenimax said and I will wait for them to take action before I campaign further (one way or the other).
Now having said that.. We need to get one thing out of the way here, because it keeps coming up.
There will be no such thing as a addon/mod that keeps your information private. This is not possible. I repeat, this is not possible! This is some silly rumor that a single person started. When another player sees your information that information is coming from the game server, not from your client. If information could be manipulated this way there would be hax and cheats galore.
Repeat after me - THERE WILL NOT BE A PRIVACY ADDON!
Darn those medling kids. The maturity is strong in this one.What happens if there isn't one ? Do you loose all fighting capacity ?
Nope just enjoyment
At the very least, there better be an addon that will show me MY OWN buffs/debuffs/dots/states...
If the devs can't manage this type of basic UI functionality they had better let addon developers plug the gaps.
And before the defense force jumps on the "subtle visual cues" argument, it matters not a jot to me as these types of subtle visual cues will become lost in the mass carnage and lag of large scale PvP.
Welcome back, why did you change your user name ? I liked the last one better
Not sure I understand what you are saying?
I only signed up today on here as my SWTOR sub has now lapsed, looking forward to switching from SWTOR to ESO
Oh I know you do, not my business tho. If you are into that kind of stuff, enjoy it.
I think you should check out Wildstar. That game might be for you.
I've checked it out
It does have some nice features but I personally find the visuals too cartoony for my tastes. ESO has some pretty realistic looking graphics and a more open feel to it:)