I've never liked addons. Not in RIFT, not in WoW, I also don't like the idea of addons in WildStar and in TESO. The reason is quite simple. It imposes benefit to someone who was willing to spend hours searching/writting an addon. So am I supposed to play the game to get better or forum-hunt for the best addons available. And of course check weekly for updates/new addons. I really don't get the idea of addons. Why were they added in the first place. Always seemed like a legit hacking over "stock" players. And that is something that I do not support, at all. Yeah keep telling that addons are only UI fluff. In WoW I found an addon that was pathfinding every quest objective .... on a quest that I was supposed to think and search, but no, here, take this pathfind.
So when WildStar and TESO kick-off what should be the first thing the players do? Go download some addons, or ACTUALLY play the game the way its meant to be played.
And I've always felt that playing the base game, without the addons always makes me inferior to the mod guys. There is information that is simply not available to me. Why?
The irony is that all the people defending the PvP mod and saying that it doesn't give a bias and is perfectly fair will all also be running the privacy mod so that no one else can use the PvP mod on them. Ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy. ;-)
Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.
Hard to argue about that, right? But what do the "i want all my info hidden, since i am not able to work with said info myself"-crowd care...
Edit: Hiding your buffs / debuffs from your own healers sounds like a bad plan tho. So... go ahead and use the cheat. Will make it easier for teams that actually think about what they do lol.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Player 1 - I want a bunch of extra information! I want charts and graphs and scrolling text. I want my interface covered in numbers! I want to know immediately when to counter. I want to know my enemies exact health, stamina and magicka to the exact number. I want I want I want I want.
Player 2 - I just want to play with the stock UI. I want the game to be fair. I wish I could disable you being able to see all my vitals on you screen like a readout from Star Trek.
Player 1 - CHEATER
Except in the case of the privacy mod:
Player 1 is using existing, in game tools and content, devleoped and included by the devs in line with their stated design goalds in order enhance their gameplay experience and dislpay in game information that is viewable by design.
Player 2 is abusing the same systems to hide default game information that is viewable by design, in order to obtain an advantage not included in the games default mechanics.
Which sounds more like cheating to you?
Show me a themepark MMORPG that when I select a target doesn't show me their health bar.
Show me a themepark MMORPG that when I select a target doesn't show me their action bar.
Show me a themepark MMORPG that when I select a target doesn't show me their cast bar.
Show me a themepark MMORPG that when I select a target doesn't show me their active buffs / debuffs.
This is how MMORPGs work.
Neither are cheating...they are choices.
What Jyiiga pointed out is that the people that want to see all of your info (which is ridiculous IMO. For this game at least) and are denied the ability to do so are crying fowl. It's irony at it's best and I WILL be using any mod that hides me.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.
Hard to argue about that, right? But what do the "i want all my info hidden, since i am not able to work with said info myself"-crowd care...
Edit: Hiding your buffs / debuffs from your own healers sounds like a bad plan tho. So... go ahead and use the cheat. Will make it easier for teams that actually think about what they do lol.
It's not meant to be seen. It's allowed to be seen. It's also probably going to be allowed to be unseen. If so, deal with it.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.
It's not meant to be seen. It can't be seen from the standard UI. Your entire premise is false. In fact those mods came out of a test of a game that is not released yet. How do you know they meant for the mods to be able to read other players info? The API process is still under NDA.
You know what information we do have is them talking about their UI and not watching other peoples' cast bar. They talk about you seeing animations and being able to recognize what the opponent is doing. You're reaching for the crutch without giving ESO game design a fair shot. The problem with all this is that it impacts other players gameplay because the information you are getting is stuff you wouldn't know otherwise without using a the mod in the OP or a similar mod. People will have to use it to stay as competitive as others whom will use the mod. Those that do not will be accepting that they are playing PVP at a disadvantage.
'By Design' implies the devs have anticipated, tested and approved any conceivable mod and foreseen all possible outcomes. If they are that perfect then any hack could be argued to be by design.
MMORPGs require basic things for combat and things like being able to see your targets health, action, cast and buffs are as basic as it gets.
You guys seem to crave the sort of PvP where each player has no information and we essentially just hack n slash over and over and over and over until one of us falls down....
Good luck with that....I am sure that sort of engaging PvP will thrive in this game
Sorry, are you actually pointing the finger at us *players* because basic information is not displayed in this game? (I agree, they don't display it)
Could you please instead keep some of that energy and redirect it towards the developers who do not display BASIC information in THEIR game? (we agree, they don't)
Just use this energy to ask the developer instead to display the said basic information, because really the solution is for the actual PAID developers of the game to move their rears and actually provide that information on screen for any regular player.
ZOS are perfectly happy with the PvP mods as it is, they even helped create it. Deal with it.
Correct, but they made tons of terrible decisions. Should I start listing them?
Or will you just agree to the possibility that add-ons might be another poor decision and thus is actually debatable and so players should be allowed to discuss this decision too?
"I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games..."
what? i dont get it?
ADD-ON's are freely used so if u dont want them dont use em? i dont get why u would be against this, no one is forcing u to use addon's.
Exactly...
It's just the same old entitled attitude of "I don't want to use this, but if I CHOOSE not to use it don't let anybody ELSE use it either..."
Personal freedom ends where it hits the freedom of others. So you shout "I WANT TO SEE YOUR INFO! YOU DON't HAVE NO CHOICE!" yourself. So you want to encage the freedom of others to chose if you are allowed to see their info and stats. You yourself say I want to, so everybody has to comply....
This is why Add-Ons like that are so argued... One party loses freedom of choice either way.
On the point of basic infos... Well: Buffs/debuffs... Intuition, feeling of time, remembrance to recast stuff.. So thinking!
On the point of target health: It hits/bites you: >=1, it drops dead >=0
It is THAT easy, everything else is not really relevant.
Nobody would discuss anything if it was about an add-on that only allows to modify your own UI and showing you your own stats...
addons can bring fresh air of life on games with poor UI like ESO and WoW. I think its a plus. For those that want it minimalistic they can still have it.
"I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games..."
what? i dont get it?
ADD-ON's are freely used so if u dont want them dont use em? i dont get why u would be against this, no one is forcing u to use addon's.
Exactly...
It's just the same old entitled attitude of "I don't want to use this, but if I CHOOSE not to use it don't let anybody ELSE use it either..."
Personal freedom ends where it hits the freedom of others. So you shout "I WANT TO SEE YOUR INFO! YOU DON't HAVE NO CHOICE!" yourself. So you want to encage the freedom of others to chose if you are allowed to see their info and stats. You yourself say I want to, so everybody has to comply....
This is why Add-Ons like that are so argued... One party loses freedom of choice either way.
On the point of basic infos... Well: Buffs/debuffs... Intuition, feeling of time, remembrance to recast stuff.. So thinking!
On the point of target health: It hits/bites you: >=1, it drops dead >=0
It is THAT easy, everything else is not really relevant.
Nobody would discuss anything if it was about an add-on that only allows to modify your own UI and showing you your own stats...
uhm just so u know, if some people do that and u already had run-in's with them then i'm sorry for u. but just saying EVERYONE is going to use addons and leaving the people who rather play without on the side is a big fk joke.
i, for one, didn't use addon's and never had problems getting partys, same goes for other games.
and if someone needs a addon that tells u " buffs are running out " well they might aswell log out and go buy glasses tbh
I've never had an issue with addons myself. If anything, the people who abuse them are the culprits. Especially when it comes to DPS monitoring.
Personally, I just want a few addons, ones that mostly help with gathering and questing because as it stands, I really want a nice quest tracker on the side of my screen for this game. It's bad enough I have no minimap to help me navigate without popping my map open every 5 seconds, but having to go into my journal after every quest is getting old as well.
I'm a completionist for those who might want to start griping about having a quest tracker, so for me, doing every quest I can IS fun and any tool that makes that easier is alright in my book.
Come to think of it, I like Boss mods too because I'm not a hardcore challenge player and for me to enjoy that type of content with others, I'm going to need a little bit of help, via addons that help me with reactions to boss skills. I'm not ashamed to admit it, because again, I'm not a challenge gamer. Those of you who are, you can opt to not play with these addons, which would actually, you know, be challenging ;D
"I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games..."
what? i dont get it?
ADD-ON's are freely used so if u dont want them dont use em? i dont get why u would be against this, no one is forcing u to use addon's.
Exactly...
It's just the same old entitled attitude of "I don't want to use this, but if I CHOOSE not to use it don't let anybody ELSE use it either..."
Personal freedom ends where it hits the freedom of others. So you shout "I WANT TO SEE YOUR INFO! YOU DON't HAVE NO CHOICE!" yourself. So you want to encage the freedom of others to chose if you are allowed to see their info and stats. You yourself say I want to, so everybody has to comply....
This is why Add-Ons like that are so argued... One party loses freedom of choice either way.
On the point of basic infos... Well: Buffs/debuffs... Intuition, feeling of time, remembrance to recast stuff.. So thinking!
On the point of target health: It hits/bites you: >=1, it drops dead >=0
It is THAT easy, everything else is not really relevant.
Nobody would discuss anything if it was about an add-on that only allows to modify your own UI and showing you your own stats...
Yes, in carebear PvE it is that easy....
But this is a multi faction, AVA centric, PvP focused MMORPG....ala DAOC.
Competetive PvPers will not put up with suh hit and miss feedback. They won't...it's as simple as that.
If the UI does not include these things they will demand mods that do, if the PvE carebears force the adoption of a privacy mod the PvP community will desert this game in droves as the stock functionality just does not function to a competetive standard in terms of combat feedback. It's that simple.
Ummmm....goodbye?
Never really understood why you "Elite PvPers" always try to belittle everyone else. You sit and number crunch and mod PvP til it's no longer a game. So when a game purist comes along, you call "Carebear" (as if it means anything now days). Even though actual warfare has not stat tracker. Actual warfare (which, to me, seems like what true PvPers should be looking for) only has intelligence seen with the naked eye. You can't aim at an enemy and see how experienced they are. There isn't the time.
But see...that's just it. Todays PvP has evolved into this garbage of stat and gear tracking. As far as I know, these mods would all be considered hacks in any real PvP game...like shooters.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Never really understood why you "Elite PvPers" always try to belittle everyone else. You sit and number crunch and mod PvP til it's no longer a game. So when a game purist comes along, you call "Carebear" (as if it means anything now days). Even though actual warfare has not stat tracker. Actual warfare (which, to me, seems like what true PvPers should be looking for) only has intelligence seen with the naked eye. You can't aim at an enemy and see how experienced they are. There isn't the time.
But see...that's just it. Todays PvP has evolved into this garbage of stat and gear tracking. As far as I know, these mods would all be considered hacks in any real PvP game...like shooters.
u sound like a gamer that plays shooters .
but you're right thats why i said that even if there are addons u dont need to use them. i hate them, using addons in fights (pve/p) is like bypassing the fight in it's whole. but that is my opinion, if u do use addons it's none of my concern to talk about the negativity of using it.
Never really understood why you "Elite PvPers" always try to belittle everyone else. You sit and number crunch and mod PvP til it's no longer a game. So when a game purist comes along, you call "Carebear" (as if it means anything now days). Even though actual warfare has not stat tracker. Actual warfare (which, to me, seems like what true PvPers should be looking for) only has intelligence seen with the naked eye. You can't aim at an enemy and see how experienced they are. There isn't the time.
But see...that's just it. Todays PvP has evolved into this garbage of stat and gear tracking. As far as I know, these mods would all be considered hacks in any real PvP game...like shooters.
u sound like a gamer that plays shooters .
but you're right thats why i said that even if there are addons u dont need to use them. i hate them, using addons in fights (pve/p) is like bypassing the fight in it's whole. but that is my opinion, if u do use addons it's none of my concern to talk about the negativity of using it.
I am/was. Had to move to the sticks and now all I do is warp around the screen to other players. Damn innernet speed country arsed fail!
I was just commenting on my favorite pet peeve term.... "Carebear" in an MMO setting. It's like calling some one a "wuss" in a tickle fight....
:P
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games..."
what? i dont get it?
ADD-ON's are freely used so if u dont want them dont use em? i dont get why u would be against this, no one is forcing u to use addon's.
Exactly...
It's just the same old entitled attitude of "I don't want to use this, but if I CHOOSE not to use it don't let anybody ELSE use it either..."
Personal freedom ends where it hits the freedom of others. So you shout "I WANT TO SEE YOUR INFO! YOU DON't HAVE NO CHOICE!" yourself. So you want to encage the freedom of others to chose if you are allowed to see their info and stats. You yourself say I want to, so everybody has to comply....
This is why Add-Ons like that are so argued... One party loses freedom of choice either way.
On the point of basic infos... Well: Buffs/debuffs... Intuition, feeling of time, remembrance to recast stuff.. So thinking!
On the point of target health: It hits/bites you: >=1, it drops dead >=0
It is THAT easy, everything else is not really relevant.
Nobody would discuss anything if it was about an add-on that only allows to modify your own UI and showing you your own stats...
Yes, in carebear PvE it is that easy....
But this is a multi faction, AVA centric, PvP focused MMORPG....ala DAOC.
Competetive PvPers will not put up with suh hit and miss feedback. They won't...it's as simple as that.
If the UI does not include these things they will demand mods that do, if the PvE carebears force the adoption of a privacy mod the PvP community will desert this game in droves as the stock functionality just does not function to a competetive standard in terms of combat feedback. It's that simple.
Ummmm....goodbye?
Never really understood why you "Elite PvPers" always try to belittle everyone else. You sit and number crunch and mod PvP til it's no longer a game. So when a game purist comes along, you call "Carebear" (as if it means anything now days). Even though actual warfare has not stat tracker. Actual warfare (which, to me, seems like what true PvPers should be looking for) only has intelligence seen with the naked eye. You can't aim at an enemy and see how experienced they are. There isn't the time.
But see...that's just it. Todays PvP has evolved into this garbage of stat and gear tracking. As far as I know, these mods would all be considered hacks in any real PvP game...like shooters.
Thats a great attitude you have there.
This is a multi faction, AVA centric, PVP FOCUSED MMORPG.
Almost every single preview states that the PvE in this game is lacklustre at best.
Almost every retort to every critisism is "wait till level 10 thats when PvP begins, the PvP in this game is where its at" or "wait till level 50, thats when the real game begins and you can PvP"....
To treat a huge section of the community, that the game has been specifically markets towards (PvP ccommunity) with such scorn speak volumes about the level of maturity within the ESO community. Everything BUT the PvP in this game is sub par.
The repeated micro transactions generated by cash shop sales of monetised PvP items and fluff will be the life blood of this game from year 2 onwards.
Will you be as quick to dismiss sections of the community in such a calous manner when attitudes such as yours have ruined the PvP, the PvP community bails and the servers are dying leaving you with noone to play with?
Didnt think so.
I'm dismissing calling people "carebears" in an MMO. When all MMO PvPers that say it seem to want so many advantages that makes it shallow. Just kinda ironic to me.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I could care less who uses a privacy mod and who doesn't.
The point I am making, that is flying above a lot of peoples heads here is that their entire arguemt stems from the idea that its outrageous that THEY should be forced to use mods to stay competetive.
And YET, when a mod (like the privacy mod) is discussed that DOES suit their agenda they all say they will use it.
Well, in that case everyone will have to use it to ensure a level playing field. So they are in fact equally guilty of this concept of forrcing others to use mods to remain competetive.
Yes, I will be equally guilty of forcing others to use the "hide mod" (if such a mod exists), and gladly so.
My hope is that everyone adopts the "hide info" mod so that mods as a whole become useless, and that people using the others mods (conferring an advantage) just stop using them.
If you adopt the "hide info" mod yourself, then I have won as I have rendered most "info mods" useless. Think carefully about what you are going to do or not going to do.
To prove your point, you should make sure you do not use the "hide info" mod, so that you put your money where you mouth is and allow others to access your data if they so chose. And to prove my point, I will only install the "hide data" mod and not any mods that provide extra info about other players.
The difference being myself and many others never had an issue with this reality to start with, THEY did.
That is massive hypocrisy on those posters part and their faux indignation makes me laugh when viewed against the break neck speed they will adopt a mod that DOES suit them and thereby "force" everyone else to use the same mod to avoid an unfair advantage.
The difference between my approach and yours is that ultimately, by my actions, I want to put the burden of having an even level playing field on the developer and not on the player.
Boycotting the mods (by adopting the hide info mod) would encourage a mod-free environment instead of a mod-full environment.
This would pressure TESO in doing their job and providing the required (and necessary) information to all players instead of having to rely on third parties which the player MAY or MAY NOT know of.
I could care less who uses a privacy mod and who doesn't.
The point I am making, that is flying above a lot of peoples heads here is that their entire arguemt stems from the idea that its outrageous that THEY should be forced to use mods to stay competetive.
And YET, when a mod (like the privacy mod) is discussed that DOES suit their agenda they all say they will use it.
Well, in that case everyone will have to use it to ensure a level playing field. So they are in fact equally guilty of this concept of forrcing others to use mods to remain competetive.
Yes, I will be equally guilty of forcing others to use the "hide mod" (if such a mod exists), and gladly so.
My hope is that everyone adopts the "hide info" mod so that mods as a whole become useless, and that people using the others mods (conferring an advantage) just stop using them.
If you adopt the "hide info" mod yourself, then I have won as I have rendered most "info mods" useless. Think carefully about what you are going to do or not going to do.
To prove your point, you should make sure you do not use the "hide info" mod, so that you put your money where you mouth is and allow others to access your data if they so chose. And to prove my point, I will only install the "hide data" mod and not any mods that provide extra info about other players.
The difference being myself and many others never had an issue with this reality to start with, THEY did.
That is massive hypocrisy on those posters part and their faux indignation makes me laugh when viewed against the break neck speed they will adopt a mod that DOES suit them and thereby "force" everyone else to use the same mod to avoid an unfair advantage.
The difference between my approach and yours is that ultimately, by my actions, I want to put the burden of having an even level playing field on the developer and not on the player.
Boycotting the mods (by adopting the hide info mod) would encourage a mod-free environment instead of a mod-full environment.
This would pressure TESO in doing their job and providing the required (and necessary) information to all players instead of having to rely on third parties which the player MAY or MAY NOT know of.
But I, by definition do not care if I were to use mods and you were to use a privacy mod.
The marginal advantage / marginal dis-advantage either way is of no import to me whatsoever. I will PvP for fun if I buy the game and whether or not those mods improve my dps or my kill ratio or even give me ability to visually track buff timers is not the point because I do not PvP anywhere near often enough to take it so seriously.
So I believe that if two people have access to the exact same options and opportunities there is no possibility of being "dis-advantaged" in any way. If I choose to use an option and you choose not to use an option, the game is not dis-advantaging you, the addon is not dis-advantaging you, it is simply your choice not to use it that is disadvantaging you.
From that logic, I can happily "force" others to use mods as you so sensationally put it...
Whereas yourself, your entire standpoint seems to be that it is wrong for one group to "force" another group to do anything they dont want to....
You force me to use / not use mods - I would expect it either way and have no issues either way.
I force you to use / not use mods - you think its terrible.
So by you forcing others into one course of action or another, who, out of the two of us is actually throwing our principles away and doing the thing we claim to hate, just to get our own way? Hint: Its not me Your logical standpoint only holds water if you never had an issue with the forced use or forced not use of mods to begin with.
It's a circular arguement anyway The reality is the PvP mod has been developed in conjunction with and in fact developed in part by ZOS themselves. They have always been aware of its exact specification and scope and they are happy with its current iteration. Yes, they may have paid lip service to the vocal minority and said "We take your concerns on board and will monitor thing" or whatever the generic response was but we all know the PvP mod is here to stay in just about 95% of it's current form.
Privacy mods developed without the assistance of ZOS that have not been sanctioned by ZOS could be a different matter altogether...and could be blacklisted quite quickly. A privacy mod is like stealing the contents of a room whereas the PvP mod is like switching the light on to see the contents that are already in the room.
I do agree though that somehow the pressure should be put on ZOS to provide a professional and comprehensive UI that includes frames for all data fields found within the API. In 2014, with a AAA licence there is literally zero excuse for not having custom UI presets, naybe half a dozen per character etc. With UI hotswapping people could dynamically alter their UI based on whatever they are doing at the time (PvP / RAID etc) and avoid having unecessary clutter to boot!!
This is basic stuff and should come as standard in any AAA MMORPG launched in 2014.
Maybe they took that info out of their UI for a reason. The mod was developed alongside ZOS? Didn't ever see that info. Pretty sure they would be addressing that fact on foundry and reddit if true.
Honestly I don't want to play an MMO that supports add-ons ever again. Any kinds of UI customization options should be built into the game (and I encourage it) but no outside addons should be allowed. I was a pro raider in WoW;constantly in the top 50 guilds worldwide to beat any particular boss for 3 years straight. One of the things I hated most was having to constantly update and tinker with my addons to stay competitive. If I ever took a month-long break I would have to spend 2 or more hours just updating my add-ons and fixing my UI before I got to even play. This is a hindrance. In fact, the day I finally decided to quit WoW for good was one such day: I took a 3 week break to go on a trip and when I came back all my addons were expired and my UI was all screwed up. I started the usual process of updating and fixing it but 30 minutes in i said " You know what, I don't even really like this game anymore. Screw it". Even a few days later when I thought about changing my mind because I was bored, I thought of all the time I'd have to spend working on my addons and it kept me from going back. It's been almost 3 years now and I haven't looked back since.
I'd rather the game offer all the tools you need to make an optimal UI and automatically update them from patch to patch. I never want to have to do the level of addon nonsense I did in WoW ever again.
They did...I linked the quote from one of the mods creators on Tamriel Foundry confirming it was developed with assistance from and full disclosure to ZOS a few pages back.
Okay. Went back through your posts and tons of block writing. I see the quote you pulled out.
A few things first. The creator of Tamriel Foundry made that mod. He has a lot of fans that are eager to defend him. They've been using the mod for awhile internally within their guild. Whether this was sanctioned by ZOS or he just did it, no one knows. No one also knows how much ZOS knew about this specific add-on. What Atropos...the one and only creator of said mod you're talking about...has said is that the API was open for him to do it. He goes further to say that the API is closed off to movement and other game mechanics. He uses this justification (whether you agree with him or not) that ZOS implicitly allows this type of modding, until they no longer don't. The fact is that he doesn't know if ZOS is going to allow his mod to hit launch unchanged. He just made it under the testing NDA like other people did their mods. None of them have said that ZOS explicitly sanctioned any of these mods. No one even knows if they were fully aware of what it was these people were actually creating with the open API. ZOS has certainly said nothing publicly about this issue.
Comments
I've never liked addons. Not in RIFT, not in WoW, I also don't like the idea of addons in WildStar and in TESO. The reason is quite simple. It imposes benefit to someone who was willing to spend hours searching/writting an addon. So am I supposed to play the game to get better or forum-hunt for the best addons available. And of course check weekly for updates/new addons. I really don't get the idea of addons. Why were they added in the first place. Always seemed like a legit hacking over "stock" players. And that is something that I do not support, at all. Yeah keep telling that addons are only UI fluff. In WoW I found an addon that was pathfinding every quest objective .... on a quest that I was supposed to think and search, but no, here, take this pathfind.
So when WildStar and TESO kick-off what should be the first thing the players do? Go download some addons, or ACTUALLY play the game the way its meant to be played.
And I've always felt that playing the base game, without the addons always makes me inferior to the mod guys. There is information that is simply not available to me. Why?
Hiding stuff that is meant to be seen sounds more like a cheat then more visibily showing what is there anyways.
Hard to argue about that, right? But what do the "i want all my info hidden, since i am not able to work with said info myself"-crowd care...
Edit: Hiding your buffs / debuffs from your own healers sounds like a bad plan tho. So... go ahead and use the cheat. Will make it easier for teams that actually think about what they do lol.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Neither are cheating...they are choices.
What Jyiiga pointed out is that the people that want to see all of your info (which is ridiculous IMO. For this game at least) and are denied the ability to do so are crying fowl. It's irony at it's best and I WILL be using any mod that hides me.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
It's not meant to be seen. It's allowed to be seen. It's also probably going to be allowed to be unseen. If so, deal with it.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
It's not meant to be seen. It can't be seen from the standard UI. Your entire premise is false. In fact those mods came out of a test of a game that is not released yet. How do you know they meant for the mods to be able to read other players info? The API process is still under NDA.
You know what information we do have is them talking about their UI and not watching other peoples' cast bar. They talk about you seeing animations and being able to recognize what the opponent is doing. You're reaching for the crutch without giving ESO game design a fair shot. The problem with all this is that it impacts other players gameplay because the information you are getting is stuff you wouldn't know otherwise without using a the mod in the OP or a similar mod. People will have to use it to stay as competitive as others whom will use the mod. Those that do not will be accepting that they are playing PVP at a disadvantage.
The only add on I want for this is the ability to set my own little post-it notes/markers on the map.
That's all.
"I also noticed a part of the UI that listed ADD ON's... I only hope this will not be the same nightmare, that it has created in other games..."
what? i dont get it?
ADD-ON's are freely used so if u dont want them dont use em? i dont get why u would be against this, no one is forcing u to use addon's.
Sorry, are you actually pointing the finger at us *players* because basic information is not displayed in this game? (I agree, they don't display it)
Could you please instead keep some of that energy and redirect it towards the developers who do not display BASIC information in THEIR game? (we agree, they don't)
Just use this energy to ask the developer instead to display the said basic information, because really the solution is for the actual PAID developers of the game to move their rears and actually provide that information on screen for any regular player.
Ground breaking idea, I know.
Correct, but they made tons of terrible decisions. Should I start listing them?
Or will you just agree to the possibility that add-ons might be another poor decision and thus is actually debatable and so players should be allowed to discuss this decision too?
I will happily use the "hide all information" add on and will encourage everyone to use it, on the contrary.
You should be proud of me.
Personal freedom ends where it hits the freedom of others. So you shout "I WANT TO SEE YOUR INFO! YOU DON't HAVE NO CHOICE!" yourself. So you want to encage the freedom of others to chose if you are allowed to see their info and stats. You yourself say I want to, so everybody has to comply....
This is why Add-Ons like that are so argued... One party loses freedom of choice either way.
On the point of basic infos... Well: Buffs/debuffs... Intuition, feeling of time, remembrance to recast stuff.. So thinking!
On the point of target health: It hits/bites you: >=1, it drops dead >=0
It is THAT easy, everything else is not really relevant.
Nobody would discuss anything if it was about an add-on that only allows to modify your own UI and showing you your own stats...
addons can bring fresh air of life on games with poor UI like ESO and WoW. I think its a plus. For those that want it minimalistic they can still have it.
uhm just so u know, if some people do that and u already had run-in's with them then i'm sorry for u. but just saying EVERYONE is going to use addons and leaving the people who rather play without on the side is a big fk joke.
i, for one, didn't use addon's and never had problems getting partys, same goes for other games.
and if someone needs a addon that tells u " buffs are running out " well they might aswell log out and go buy glasses tbh
I've never had an issue with addons myself. If anything, the people who abuse them are the culprits. Especially when it comes to DPS monitoring.
Personally, I just want a few addons, ones that mostly help with gathering and questing because as it stands, I really want a nice quest tracker on the side of my screen for this game. It's bad enough I have no minimap to help me navigate without popping my map open every 5 seconds, but having to go into my journal after every quest is getting old as well.
I'm a completionist for those who might want to start griping about having a quest tracker, so for me, doing every quest I can IS fun and any tool that makes that easier is alright in my book.
Come to think of it, I like Boss mods too because I'm not a hardcore challenge player and for me to enjoy that type of content with others, I'm going to need a little bit of help, via addons that help me with reactions to boss skills. I'm not ashamed to admit it, because again, I'm not a challenge gamer. Those of you who are, you can opt to not play with these addons, which would actually, you know, be challenging ;D
Ummmm....goodbye?
Never really understood why you "Elite PvPers" always try to belittle everyone else. You sit and number crunch and mod PvP til it's no longer a game. So when a game purist comes along, you call "Carebear" (as if it means anything now days). Even though actual warfare has not stat tracker. Actual warfare (which, to me, seems like what true PvPers should be looking for) only has intelligence seen with the naked eye. You can't aim at an enemy and see how experienced they are. There isn't the time.
But see...that's just it. Todays PvP has evolved into this garbage of stat and gear tracking. As far as I know, these mods would all be considered hacks in any real PvP game...like shooters.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
u sound like a gamer that plays shooters .
but you're right thats why i said that even if there are addons u dont need to use them. i hate them, using addons in fights (pve/p) is like bypassing the fight in it's whole. but that is my opinion, if u do use addons it's none of my concern to talk about the negativity of using it.
I am/was. Had to move to the sticks and now all I do is warp around the screen to other players. Damn innernet speed country arsed fail!
I was just commenting on my favorite pet peeve term.... "Carebear" in an MMO setting. It's like calling some one a "wuss" in a tickle fight....
:P
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I'm dismissing calling people "carebears" in an MMO. When all MMO PvPers that say it seem to want so many advantages that makes it shallow. Just kinda ironic to me.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Yes, I will be equally guilty of forcing others to use the "hide mod" (if such a mod exists), and gladly so.
My hope is that everyone adopts the "hide info" mod so that mods as a whole become useless, and that people using the others mods (conferring an advantage) just stop using them.
If you adopt the "hide info" mod yourself, then I have won as I have rendered most "info mods" useless. Think carefully about what you are going to do or not going to do.
To prove your point, you should make sure you do not use the "hide info" mod, so that you put your money where you mouth is and allow others to access your data if they so chose. And to prove my point, I will only install the "hide data" mod and not any mods that provide extra info about other players.
The difference between my approach and yours is that ultimately, by my actions, I want to put the burden of having an even level playing field on the developer and not on the player.
Boycotting the mods (by adopting the hide info mod) would encourage a mod-free environment instead of a mod-full environment.
This would pressure TESO in doing their job and providing the required (and necessary) information to all players instead of having to rely on third parties which the player MAY or MAY NOT know of.
Maybe they took that info out of their UI for a reason. The mod was developed alongside ZOS? Didn't ever see that info. Pretty sure they would be addressing that fact on foundry and reddit if true.
Honestly I don't want to play an MMO that supports add-ons ever again. Any kinds of UI customization options should be built into the game (and I encourage it) but no outside addons should be allowed. I was a pro raider in WoW;constantly in the top 50 guilds worldwide to beat any particular boss for 3 years straight. One of the things I hated most was having to constantly update and tinker with my addons to stay competitive. If I ever took a month-long break I would have to spend 2 or more hours just updating my add-ons and fixing my UI before I got to even play. This is a hindrance. In fact, the day I finally decided to quit WoW for good was one such day: I took a 3 week break to go on a trip and when I came back all my addons were expired and my UI was all screwed up. I started the usual process of updating and fixing it but 30 minutes in i said " You know what, I don't even really like this game anymore. Screw it". Even a few days later when I thought about changing my mind because I was bored, I thought of all the time I'd have to spend working on my addons and it kept me from going back. It's been almost 3 years now and I haven't looked back since.
I'd rather the game offer all the tools you need to make an optimal UI and automatically update them from patch to patch. I never want to have to do the level of addon nonsense I did in WoW ever again.
Okay. Went back through your posts and tons of block writing. I see the quote you pulled out.
A few things first. The creator of Tamriel Foundry made that mod. He has a lot of fans that are eager to defend him. They've been using the mod for awhile internally within their guild. Whether this was sanctioned by ZOS or he just did it, no one knows. No one also knows how much ZOS knew about this specific add-on. What Atropos...the one and only creator of said mod you're talking about...has said is that the API was open for him to do it. He goes further to say that the API is closed off to movement and other game mechanics. He uses this justification (whether you agree with him or not) that ZOS implicitly allows this type of modding, until they no longer don't. The fact is that he doesn't know if ZOS is going to allow his mod to hit launch unchanged. He just made it under the testing NDA like other people did their mods. None of them have said that ZOS explicitly sanctioned any of these mods. No one even knows if they were fully aware of what it was these people were actually creating with the open API. ZOS has certainly said nothing publicly about this issue.