I think that I have no respect for Massively and haven't for quite some time now. They are one of the most agenda and biased driven mmo news sites there is currently. Shame because they weren't always like that.
I hope Zenimax will target people who like P2P subscription models. You see people who invest real money have a stronger connection to their game than F2P come and go randoms. I will stop playing ESO of it will GO F2P !!!!
WOW did it and succeeded in long term. Hope ESO will do the same game is very fresh and has a lot of great features nicely polished. Also after beta I really believe ESO player base will explode after release game is great !
When I was 15 I liked F2P too but then I tired WOW and I forced my self to find a way to make a income.
I really don't mind at all if kids teenagers and other cheap people won't play this game ! Plus in such case community will be much more enjoyable !!!
I think you need to re-read Justin's spin article from Massively vs what Pete Hines from Bethesda actually said.
For reiteration: spin vs reality.
"We felt like the subscription model fit best what we wanted to do, not because we want you to pay per month to play the game, but because we want to provide real and meaningful content support on a regular basis."
Massively is just creating another article to get more hits on their site. Your post is perpetuating that drama of the ongoing subscription vs F2P nonsense.
I'm really disappointed with how Massively has allowed this shift to inaccurate and distorted "reporting". I'm seeing too much of this sort of stuff lately. I used to go there daily. Think it's time to just delete them from my bookmarks. What happened to ethics?
Yep - Massively has gone to garbage. I never go there anymore.
I've personally never understood the P2P method. They claim you pay monthly to cover future content, yet when that content comes out they call it an expansion and charge a fee for it along side the subscription. Wasn't that subscription supposed to be covering content updates? -_-
In my eye, P2P is a form of scam.
Charge for the box price
Charge monthly to play the game
Charge to get expansions (content)
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch.
This is what you guys support.
My view of a subscription model is "pay the monthly fee and get everything at no additional cost". The argument of the company needing to pay server costs and pay for making the new content simply doesn't work when you say you charge monthly for that exact reason.
I don't know why everyone keeps saying "people don't want subscription games"... it's simply not true. What people don't want is a subscription game that ALSO bleeds you through a cash shop.
These discussions wouldn't even be happening if they had either picked box + cash shop OR box + subscription. It's the fact that they're using all three that is annoying people.
I've personally never understood the P2P method. They claim you pay monthly to cover future content, yet when that content comes out they call it an expansion and charge a fee for it along side the subscription. Wasn't that subscription supposed to be covering content updates? -_-
In my eye, P2P is a form of scam.
Charge for the box price
Charge monthly to play the game
Charge to get expansions (content)
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch.
This is what you guys support.
My view of a subscription model is "pay the monthly fee and get everything at no additional cost". The argument of the company needing to pay server costs and pay for making the new content simply doesn't work when you say you charge monthly for that exact reason.
You sir have no idea of software development.
Charge for the box price - they must make an income ! they must pay developers ! ( IT at the moment has highest salaries on the market )
Charge monthly to play the game - Customer support WOW some time they respond instantly in case when big Error happen in an hour you get response and bug fixed to a 25 raid people after 1 hours Happen to me fixed in 1 hour!! Zenimax I got response after 1 hour when they opened pre order sales. Also This game have huge servers witch cost them a LOT of money daily!!! Bug fixing and Quality !
Charge to get expansions again need to make income need to pay developers
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch. Bonus income most people don't care about these and bring additional income. Witch increase chance that you will get new update next year
Also P2P mean that you don't have to pay 5 $ when you want to enchant weapon +1 +2 +3 +4..5..6..7..8..9..10 in cash shop while chnace to enchant for F2P people is 25 % there are lot of things witch ruin the core of F2P .
Almost all F2P have OP enchant talisman in cash shop. Witch is basicly cheat or Pay to Win THY GOD ZENIMAX DECIDED TO GO P2P and I will not see people like you
Of course there will be some anxiety within the business around the payment model. People internally know where the shortfalls in the game are just like they know where the strengths of the game are. They know the game will die on it's feet if launch with, and retain a purely P2P sub model going forward.
However they have spent so long over banging the drum that says "We will never rip our customers off with cash shops and freemium!! We will always be a sub only, no hidden extras game" that they now HAVE to launch using that model or risk alienating almost all of the customers from day 1.
In reality, we all know there is a cash shop incoming and despite what the marketing team and fanboys would have you believe, we all know that the cash shop will be selling in game items and cosmetics as well as consumables. Locking up an entire playable race behind a payment gate was them dipping their toe in the water to see what sorts of things they could "get away" with charging for.
The fact that so many of you have rushed out to throw extra money at them to have your Imperial race has given them the green light to now go ahead and sell pretty much any content related items in the cash shop. They now know that people will flock to pay extra for this sort of thing, rather than rail them for going back on all their promises.
Whether we like it or not, sub models are the past...F2P/Hybrid models are the future...the shift in the gaming landscape regards payment models over the last 3 years is undeniable. Now, either the devs/publishers really DID mean it when they said ESO would always be a traditional sub game with 100% content included and no rip off nickel n diming....in which case they clearly do not understand the market and know next to nothing about their customers.....
Or the F2P/Hybrid model with cash shop has ALWAYS been in the road map for this game...I think we all know which is more likely. I am only amazed so many of you experienced MMORPG vets have managed to convince yourselves that F2P/Hybrid/Cash Shop was not in the plans from the very beginning.....
off-topic: a monkey?? Why not a mini hagraven or a dwemer robot pet or an actual companion or something like that? No... a freaking monkey is your best friend in tamriel... sigh
F2P is nothing more than a form of bankruptcy or "government bailout" for an inferior product. They can't survive on the subscription model because consumers tend to punish a god awful product by canceling their subscription. So the company runs to this F2P model in which the consumers are a lot more forgiving of this craptacular game since they don't have to pay. The MMO ends up living on life support for far longer than it deserves. The trouble is, those few bastards who actually like the game (for some strange reason) get billed through the nose with these cash shops and end up paying 3-4 times what they would with a monthly subscription. Meanwhile, those who don't fall for the cash shop scam end up at a disadvantage in the game since they refuse to invest one cent in this crappy game.
What it boils down to is this:
F2P = crap game
P2P that can last more than a year = meets a certain threshold in quality
In reality, we all know there is a cash shop incoming and despite what the marketing team and fanboys would have you believe, we all know that the cash shop will be selling in game items and cosmetics as well as consumables. Locking up an entire playable race behind a payment gate was them dipping their toe in the water to see what sorts of things they could "get away" with charging for.
The fact that so many of you have rushed out to throw extra money at them to have your Imperial race has given them the green light to now go ahead and sell pretty much any content related items in the cash shop. They now know that people will flock to pay extra for this sort of thing, rather than rail them for going back on all their promises.
(snip)
Driz
Unfortunately I think the above post is spot on. I know the phrase 'cash grab' gets banded about a lot but they are the only words that comes to mind with this Imperial fiasco. That and the now optional starter areas (which I only see as a quick appeasement to players after beta testers unearthed a more troubling problem with the starter areas) I can't help but think they are more concerned with getting as much cash in as quickly as possible, which in turn makes me concerned that they are not confident in the longevity of their own project.
All the advocates of subs must be playing one of two games (or both) since there are only two game currently that require subs to play. Wow and FFXIV. Well at least ones made this century.
So guys that think F2P game suck must not be playing any of the dozen or so games out there that arent too bad but are also free to play.
I am not an advocate of either model, I just dont think developers makes games worthy of a sub these days. ESO certainly isnt. Once the new car smell wears off people will jump from this game like its on fire.
Especially most of the forum crowd which generally arent super 'casual'. I suspect the average forum person to be max level in less than 2 weeks, some maybe before head start finishes. Then if they want to time sink they can PvP or study crafting (which they dont have to be in the game to do).
But once they see most of the stuff in the game then theyll be looking for something else to do, and it wont be there. Once the wikis come out and the road maps to everything you ever want to find or know the time gets cut even more.
Sad part is I dont see any games in development anywhere that are destination games where you actually can 'live' in the world. Not many of those game anyway and theyre closing one of the last ones in a few months. But then again since no one plays that game either maybe that isnt really what most people want.
But I dont think most people even know what they want, they just want something new because it is unknown, but once it is known they dont want it anymore.
As long as they release new content for the game I don't mind to pay a sub. But if they just take the money and run, then I'll quit the game. I expect atleast a new zone with quests, or 3-4 new dungeons every 3 months or so. Things like new crafting recipies and new dungeon modes don't count on that in my opinion, only brand new content, new armor designs, new enemy, new bosses etc.
As long as they release new content for the game I don't mind to pay a sub. But if they just take the money and run, then I'll quit the game. I expect atleast a new zone with quests, or 3-4 new dungeons every 3 months or so. Things like new crafting recipies and new dungeon modes don't count on that in my opinion, only brand new content, new armor designs, new enemy, new bosses etc.
If they hold true to their own marketing hype and stick it out with a sub only model (extremely unlikely imo) then Zeni would probably retain the traditional content release cycles that are intrinsic to subscription models.
Think along the lines of WoW where you get one chargeable expansion per year, retail around £30 - £40 which includes maybe a new race, a new zone and perhaps a small increase to level cap.
If they move to the freemium/hybrid model shortly after release (as I fully expect them to) then they will revert to content cycles every 4 - 6 weeks much like SWTOR, however in this scenario new "content" could be as little as a new set of armor that costs £5 in the cash shop.....technically that is still content every 4-6 weeks, but clearly from your post that would not match your definition of content.
This shows they are not sure on the subscription model.
My take on it is that they are waiting for the release to decide if they want to go F2P.
What do you guys think?
Thats their answer in the interview:
I don't know whether or not previous games that have done subscriptions haven't succeeded because they were subscription-based, or because of the game that they were and the value that the customer got.
Originally posted by Satarious Yeah, the author of that article is obviously spinning what was actually said. This is a Triple A game and they would be nuts to throw it into the waste bucket by making it F2P.
Just because it is a Triple A game doesn't mean it needs a sub.
Especially when more than likely the sub will go away in a year or few years(not saying it is a bad game just common thing). I just hope they make it B2P though like TSW did.
Though on subject I'm sure the game will release as P2P.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Wiha I'm happy with subscription model because it's a much needed barrier to keep away at least some of trolls, sociopaths and other pests. Also sub can mean more quality content on more regular basis. 2 cinema tickets cost more than 13 eur sub.
There are plenty of trolls and sociopaths in subscription only games... ever played Eve Online?
LOL so true that was exactly my impression of EVE. But i think that is because of the nature of that game and the fact that a lot there are selling isk/accounts for cash... so its a business for them.
Originally posted by Farzo Do people really believe that ''having a subscription fee will keep trolls away.'' ...?
Unfortunately some do, it's shame to be honest but what can you do, just sit back and watch.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....
That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.
Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW? If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.
While I can support your decision to like the sub model for your own reasons, I think it demeans the rest of us when you actually believe what you write. It seriously makes me wonder for gamers in this genre. Take for example your "10 million" subscribers to WoW" quote. For the sake of this argument I'll give you these numbers (not like 3/4 of those subscriber figures came from China but what ever) You8 do realize that 10 million numbers is so astronomically small in comparison to the likes of games such as Call of Duty, Madden Football, Farmville, Candy Crush or any other well known game that doesn't promote this archaic business model. Hell Skyrim itself sold over 20 million boxes, almost most of which to individuals that refuse to play.....or should I say PAY for continuing access to their game. So when you try to compare WoW to the likes of any other successful game it kind of counter proves any point your trying to make.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It is what they said... yea i HOPE they will keep the sub model but i can`t help thinking it will go F2P because most people won`t play a sub based game....
That said i`ll buy it anyway and see how it does even if it goes F2P i`ll keep the SUB as i did with SWTOR.
Does that "most people" include the 10 million subscribers to WoW? If anything, "most people" are subscribers and F2P is basically just hot air made up by the gaming media.
MMO`s have a lot more players than that. There are F2P games that dwarf WOW... not saying they make more money, but they sure have more players.
What i said is pretty much what some EA suit said about why SWTOR went F2P - because most people did not want to pay 15$/month for a game.
WOW had a freak success but it has not been replicated since.....
World of Tanks has 75m players... they had 1.1 million concurrent players in january.... and is a F2P game. There are more like it... overall the F2P side of the industry is bigger than the sub-only side of the industry.
I still like sub games and wish ESO would stick with a sub... but its unlikely.
I'm one of those 75m World of Tank player's. I spent a grand total of about 30min in game before I wiped it from my drive.
Personally I've been dying for a game that is worthy of the $15 a month. Will it be ESO? I guess only time will tell.
You8 do realize that 10 million numbers is so astronomically small in comparison to the likes of games such as Call of Duty, Madden Football, Farmville, Candy Crush or any other well known game that doesn't promote this archaic business model. Hell Skyrim itself sold over 20 million boxes, almost most of which to individuals that refuse to play.....or should I say PAY for continuing access to their game. So when you try to compare WoW to the likes of any other successful game it kind of counter proves any point your trying to make.
All of which ARE NOT MMOs. Your argument falls flat on its face on that basis alone.
It's not natural for an MMO to be F2P since, by its very nature, an MMO is a persistent world that needs to constantly be updated, expanded, and maintained in order to keep the quality up and people interested over a long stretch of time (about 10 years in the case of WOW). The F2P crowd must think that money grows on trees if they believe & expect an MMO to remain fresh and relevant over the years without a subscription fee.
I find it interesting that so many companies are still taking the risk to make MMOs. Must be because they're salivating at how profitable WoW is compared to pretty much any game out there.
I've personally never understood the P2P method. They claim you pay monthly to cover future content, yet when that content comes out they call it an expansion and charge a fee for it along side the subscription. Wasn't that subscription supposed to be covering content updates? -_-
In my eye, P2P is a form of scam.
Charge for the box price
Charge monthly to play the game
Charge to get expansions (content)
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch.
This is what you guys support.
My view of a subscription model is "pay the monthly fee and get everything at no additional cost". The argument of the company needing to pay server costs and pay for making the new content simply doesn't work when you say you charge monthly for that exact reason.
They did spend years developing the game without making a single cent. Box price is for R&D. Sub to cover remaining cost, if any exist, support and maintenance. All the hotfixes, and patches have man hours, a static MMO is a dead one. Meanwhile any expansions or new content is being worked on, once again, without being paid for. It comes from what they can bleed off subs or they do it all out of pocket. Upfront price for expansion is R&D again.
Unless you're a monster like Blizzard, I imagine the margin between cost and profit is narrower than people like to think.
Vanity items are just that, vanity. Purposely overpriced for extra income.
I'm sooooo tired of the whole F2P thing..........can we get a new website that tailors to mmo's that are sub based? Let the F2P'ers have ther own site? I'll pay my sub and be happy.
Comments
I hope Zenimax will target people who like P2P subscription models. You see people who invest real money have a stronger connection to their game than F2P come and go randoms. I will stop playing ESO of it will GO F2P !!!!
WOW did it and succeeded in long term. Hope ESO will do the same game is very fresh and has a lot of great features nicely polished. Also after beta I really believe ESO player base will explode after release game is great !
When I was 15 I liked F2P too but then I tired WOW and I forced my self to find a way to make a income.
I really don't mind at all if kids teenagers and other cheap people won't play this game ! Plus in such case community will be much more enjoyable !!!
Yep - Massively has gone to garbage. I never go there anymore.
Waa... I want free games, I want everything for free..!!
When they finally get f2p...oh noes! It's p2w...waa...waa...
Give it a break.
I've personally never understood the P2P method. They claim you pay monthly to cover future content, yet when that content comes out they call it an expansion and charge a fee for it along side the subscription. Wasn't that subscription supposed to be covering content updates? -_-
In my eye, P2P is a form of scam.
Charge for the box price
Charge monthly to play the game
Charge to get expansions (content)
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch.
This is what you guys support.
My view of a subscription model is "pay the monthly fee and get everything at no additional cost". The argument of the company needing to pay server costs and pay for making the new content simply doesn't work when you say you charge monthly for that exact reason.
I don't know why everyone keeps saying "people don't want subscription games"... it's simply not true. What people don't want is a subscription game that ALSO bleeds you through a cash shop.
These discussions wouldn't even be happening if they had either picked box + cash shop OR box + subscription. It's the fact that they're using all three that is annoying people.
You sir have no idea of software development.
Charge for the box price - they must make an income ! they must pay developers ! ( IT at the moment has highest salaries on the market )
Charge monthly to play the game - Customer support WOW some time they respond instantly in case when big Error happen in an hour you get response and bug fixed to a 25 raid people after 1 hours Happen to me fixed in 1 hour!! Zenimax I got response after 1 hour when they opened pre order sales. Also This game have huge servers witch cost them a LOT of money daily!!! Bug fixing and Quality !
Charge to get expansions again need to make income need to pay developers
Charge for vanity items in a cash shop that opens soon after launch. Bonus income most people don't care about these and bring additional income. Witch increase chance that you will get new update next year
Also P2P mean that you don't have to pay 5 $ when you want to enchant weapon +1 +2 +3 +4..5..6..7..8..9..10 in cash shop while chnace to enchant for F2P people is 25 % there are lot of things witch ruin the core of F2P .
Almost all F2P have OP enchant talisman in cash shop. Witch is basicly cheat or Pay to Win THY GOD ZENIMAX DECIDED TO GO P2P and I will not see people like you
Of course there will be some anxiety within the business around the payment model. People internally know where the shortfalls in the game are just like they know where the strengths of the game are. They know the game will die on it's feet if launch with, and retain a purely P2P sub model going forward.
However they have spent so long over banging the drum that says "We will never rip our customers off with cash shops and freemium!! We will always be a sub only, no hidden extras game" that they now HAVE to launch using that model or risk alienating almost all of the customers from day 1.
In reality, we all know there is a cash shop incoming and despite what the marketing team and fanboys would have you believe, we all know that the cash shop will be selling in game items and cosmetics as well as consumables. Locking up an entire playable race behind a payment gate was them dipping their toe in the water to see what sorts of things they could "get away" with charging for.
The fact that so many of you have rushed out to throw extra money at them to have your Imperial race has given them the green light to now go ahead and sell pretty much any content related items in the cash shop. They now know that people will flock to pay extra for this sort of thing, rather than rail them for going back on all their promises.
Whether we like it or not, sub models are the past...F2P/Hybrid models are the future...the shift in the gaming landscape regards payment models over the last 3 years is undeniable. Now, either the devs/publishers really DID mean it when they said ESO would always be a traditional sub game with 100% content included and no rip off nickel n diming....in which case they clearly do not understand the market and know next to nothing about their customers.....
Or the F2P/Hybrid model with cash shop has ALWAYS been in the road map for this game...I think we all know which is more likely. I am only amazed so many of you experienced MMORPG vets have managed to convince yourselves that F2P/Hybrid/Cash Shop was not in the plans from the very beginning.....
Driz
F2P is nothing more than a form of bankruptcy or "government bailout" for an inferior product. They can't survive on the subscription model because consumers tend to punish a god awful product by canceling their subscription. So the company runs to this F2P model in which the consumers are a lot more forgiving of this craptacular game since they don't have to pay. The MMO ends up living on life support for far longer than it deserves. The trouble is, those few bastards who actually like the game (for some strange reason) get billed through the nose with these cash shops and end up paying 3-4 times what they would with a monthly subscription. Meanwhile, those who don't fall for the cash shop scam end up at a disadvantage in the game since they refuse to invest one cent in this crappy game.
What it boils down to is this:
F2P = crap game
P2P that can last more than a year = meets a certain threshold in quality
Unfortunately I think the above post is spot on. I know the phrase 'cash grab' gets banded about a lot but they are the only words that comes to mind with this Imperial fiasco. That and the now optional starter areas (which I only see as a quick appeasement to players after beta testers unearthed a more troubling problem with the starter areas) I can't help but think they are more concerned with getting as much cash in as quickly as possible, which in turn makes me concerned that they are not confident in the longevity of their own project.
I hope I am wrong.
All the advocates of subs must be playing one of two games (or both) since there are only two game currently that require subs to play. Wow and FFXIV. Well at least ones made this century.
So guys that think F2P game suck must not be playing any of the dozen or so games out there that arent too bad but are also free to play.
I am not an advocate of either model, I just dont think developers makes games worthy of a sub these days. ESO certainly isnt. Once the new car smell wears off people will jump from this game like its on fire.
Especially most of the forum crowd which generally arent super 'casual'. I suspect the average forum person to be max level in less than 2 weeks, some maybe before head start finishes. Then if they want to time sink they can PvP or study crafting (which they dont have to be in the game to do).
But once they see most of the stuff in the game then theyll be looking for something else to do, and it wont be there. Once the wikis come out and the road maps to everything you ever want to find or know the time gets cut even more.
Sad part is I dont see any games in development anywhere that are destination games where you actually can 'live' in the world. Not many of those game anyway and theyre closing one of the last ones in a few months. But then again since no one plays that game either maybe that isnt really what most people want.
But I dont think most people even know what they want, they just want something new because it is unknown, but once it is known they dont want it anymore.
As long as they release new content for the game I don't mind to pay a sub. But if they just take the money and run, then I'll quit the game. I expect atleast a new zone with quests, or 3-4 new dungeons every 3 months or so. Things like new crafting recipies and new dungeon modes don't count on that in my opinion, only brand new content, new armor designs, new enemy, new bosses etc.
If they hold true to their own marketing hype and stick it out with a sub only model (extremely unlikely imo) then Zeni would probably retain the traditional content release cycles that are intrinsic to subscription models.
Think along the lines of WoW where you get one chargeable expansion per year, retail around £30 - £40 which includes maybe a new race, a new zone and perhaps a small increase to level cap.
If they move to the freemium/hybrid model shortly after release (as I fully expect them to) then they will revert to content cycles every 4 - 6 weeks much like SWTOR, however in this scenario new "content" could be as little as a new set of armor that costs £5 in the cash shop.....technically that is still content every 4-6 weeks, but clearly from your post that would not match your definition of content.
Driz
Thats their answer in the interview:
I don't know whether or not previous games that have done subscriptions haven't succeeded because they were subscription-based, or because of the game that they were and the value that the customer got.
Just because it is a Triple A game doesn't mean it needs a sub.
Especially when more than likely the sub will go away in a year or few years(not saying it is a bad game just common thing). I just hope they make it B2P though like TSW did.
Though on subject I'm sure the game will release as P2P.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
LOL so true that was exactly my impression of EVE. But i think that is because of the nature of that game and the fact that a lot there are selling isk/accounts for cash... so its a business for them.
Unfortunately some do, it's shame to be honest but what can you do, just sit back and watch.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
While I can support your decision to like the sub model for your own reasons, I think it demeans the rest of us when you actually believe what you write. It seriously makes me wonder for gamers in this genre. Take for example your "10 million" subscribers to WoW" quote. For the sake of this argument I'll give you these numbers (not like 3/4 of those subscriber figures came from China but what ever) You8 do realize that 10 million numbers is so astronomically small in comparison to the likes of games such as Call of Duty, Madden Football, Farmville, Candy Crush or any other well known game that doesn't promote this archaic business model. Hell Skyrim itself sold over 20 million boxes, almost most of which to individuals that refuse to play.....or should I say PAY for continuing access to their game. So when you try to compare WoW to the likes of any other successful game it kind of counter proves any point your trying to make.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I'm one of those 75m World of Tank player's. I spent a grand total of about 30min in game before I wiped it from my drive.
Personally I've been dying for a game that is worthy of the $15 a month. Will it be ESO? I guess only time will tell.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
All of which ARE NOT MMOs. Your argument falls flat on its face on that basis alone.
It's not natural for an MMO to be F2P since, by its very nature, an MMO is a persistent world that needs to constantly be updated, expanded, and maintained in order to keep the quality up and people interested over a long stretch of time (about 10 years in the case of WOW). The F2P crowd must think that money grows on trees if they believe & expect an MMO to remain fresh and relevant over the years without a subscription fee.
I find it interesting that so many companies are still taking the risk to make MMOs. Must be because they're salivating at how profitable WoW is compared to pretty much any game out there.
They did spend years developing the game without making a single cent. Box price is for R&D. Sub to cover remaining cost, if any exist, support and maintenance. All the hotfixes, and patches have man hours, a static MMO is a dead one. Meanwhile any expansions or new content is being worked on, once again, without being paid for. It comes from what they can bleed off subs or they do it all out of pocket. Upfront price for expansion is R&D again.
Unless you're a monster like Blizzard, I imagine the margin between cost and profit is narrower than people like to think.
Vanity items are just that, vanity. Purposely overpriced for extra income.