Originally posted by seacow1g This will undoubtedly sound controversial but when I'm trying out an MMORPG (or a game in general) a little practice I do to determine if this is indeed a decent virtual world is to imagine all the things I could do in the game if they took out combat entirely.....If i find the game lacking without it then I lose interest....Does this mean I don't care about combat or want to play a game without it? Hell no. But it's just a little practice I do to determine if the game has any staying power. Cause when all is said and done, if I'm bored out of my mind without combat then I'll probably get bored once I clear all the content and get all the gear I want in a game world WITH combat.
Makes me wonder what mmorpg you ever liked ? Other than wurm online and ATITD I can't see many mmo that didn't focus on combat.
Originally posted by seacow1g This will undoubtedly sound controversial but when I'm trying out an MMORPG (or a game in general) a little practice I do to determine if this is indeed a decent virtual world is to imagine all the things I could do in the game if they took out combat entirely.....If i find the game lacking without it then I lose interest....Does this mean I don't care about combat or want to play a game without it? Hell no. But it's just a little practice I do to determine if the game has any staying power. Cause when all is said and done, if I'm bored out of my mind without combat then I'll probably get bored once I clear all the content and get all the gear I want in a game world WITH combat.
Makes me wonder what mmorpg you ever liked ? Other than wurm online and ATITD I can't see many mmo that didn't focus on combat.
You're misunderstanding my statement. I even said that I think combat is important. The whole point of the exercise is to point out if there's anything in the game that's NOT combat oriented. It's how you identify scope. Lots of MMO's have plenty of non-combat involved elements. Sadly they are becoming less and less.
Originally posted by seacow1g This will undoubtedly sound controversial but when I'm trying out an MMORPG (or a game in general) a little practice I do to determine if this is indeed a decent virtual world is to imagine all the things I could do in the game if they took out combat entirely.....If i find the game lacking without it then I lose interest....Does this mean I don't care about combat or want to play a game without it? Hell no. But it's just a little practice I do to determine if the game has any staying power. Cause when all is said and done, if I'm bored out of my mind without combat then I'll probably get bored once I clear all the content and get all the gear I want in a game world WITH combat.
Makes me wonder what mmorpg you ever liked ? Other than wurm online and ATITD I can't see many mmo that didn't focus on combat.
You're misunderstanding my statement. I even said that I think combat is important. The whole point of the exercise is to point out if there's anything in the game that's NOT combat oriented. It's how you identify scope. Lots of MMO's have plenty of non-combat involved elements. Sadly they are becoming less and less.
Oh I understood, still to make you like a game so much without trying the combat still left me searching for anything remotly good enough. I mean if the game put enough effort on something other than combat I am pretty sure it would pop in my mind. I played em all.. and like I said I don't see myself liking any enough without the combat.
Vanguard diplomacy/crafting ? maybe for a bit but it's nothing without the combat. That's why I am doubtful you ever did that exercise.
Well, I would say EVE theres been entire weeks where i found plenty of stuff to do without combat as well as UO and SWG. So i kind of like to do the same thing when i try a new mmorpg is just how much of a virtual world is this and i see what i can get entertained by without combat.
Originally posted by Mavolence Well, I would say EVE theres been entire weeks where i found plenty of stuff to do without combat as well as UO and SWG. So i kind of like to do the same thing when i try a new mmorpg is just how much of a virtual world is this and i see what i can get entertained by without combat.
I agree that there is more to mmorpg than combat, it is still the primary focus of a big majority of em. Would you play eve,uo or swg if there was no combat. There would be no point in the first place, your crafting stuff would be on display collecting dust. Exploration without any threat be it pvp or pve ? That would get boring fast.
I could see it in a true virtual world, where it's all about player interaction and social events, but those aren't games, they are just life.
Originally posted by Mavolence Well, I would say EVE theres been entire weeks where i found plenty of stuff to do without combat as well as UO and SWG. So i kind of like to do the same thing when i try a new mmorpg is just how much of a virtual world is this and i see what i can get entertained by without combat.
I agree that there is more to mmorpg than combat, it is still the primary focus of a big majority of em. Would you play eve,uo or swg if there was no combat. There would be no point in the first place, your crafting stuff would be on display collecting dust. Exploration without any threat be it pvp or pve ? That would get boring fast.
I could see it in a true virtual world, where it's all about player interaction and social events, but those aren't games, they are just life.
No i'm not saying I would play them without combat. I probably wouldn't. The point of the exercise is to determine if there's any scope to the game. I love combat in MMORPG's; I just don't want to play an MMORPG that only has that.
Honestly, I think the no under water aspect takes away from the Elder Scrolls transition from single player to mmo. I cant even remember all the things I have come across under water in the series since I started playing. I'm not not going to get the game because of it but I think its a pretty lame choice by the devs. I'm just hoping down the line they add under water exploration/quests, just like I hope somewhere in there they'll add player housing which is another common feature from the Elder Scrolls series.
Originally posted by Mavolence Well, I would say EVE theres been entire weeks where i found plenty of stuff to do without combat as well as UO and SWG. So i kind of like to do the same thing when i try a new mmorpg is just how much of a virtual world is this and i see what i can get entertained by without combat.
I agree that there is more to mmorpg than combat, it is still the primary focus of a big majority of em. Would you play eve,uo or swg if there was no combat. There would be no point in the first place, your crafting stuff would be on display collecting dust. Exploration without any threat be it pvp or pve ? That would get boring fast.
I could see it in a true virtual world, where it's all about player interaction and social events, but those aren't games, they are just life.
No i'm not saying I would play them without combat. I probably wouldn't. The point of the exercise is to determine if there's any scope to the game. I love combat in MMORPG's; I just don't want to play an MMORPG that only has that.
So what is it then ? What game ever kept you entertained for more than 2 months ? All the mmorpg released ever had something more than combat to various degree. What kind of interaction are you looking forward to ?
Originally posted by thunderC OP If water combat is what sells a game for you try GuildWars 2 .
I already said I don't care about underwater combat. But inability to swim underwater completely is just silly to me. It's like not allowing me to jump. I don't care for GW2 either for other reasons. I actually find much bigger flaws in that game than this one.
I hope you know that making this a threshold issue for deciding whether you're going to play an MMO puts you in a very tiny minority. And that if you removed ESO out of the topic and posted this as a generic thread applicable to all MMOs in The Pub here you'd get laughed out of the water... so to speak.
Hell... a thread about not playing because there are no flying mounts would get more support.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Yep that over 60% who took the poll have shown he is clearly out if touch. I think now it's just a matter of if he tells himself enough times and in different ways that he will feel better about is unrealistic exercise.
The only thing that poll tells me is that the Devs who made the decision to leave it out were well aware that they could get away with it when they made the decision.
Yep that over 60% who took the poll have shown he is clearly out if touch. I think now it's just a matter of if he tells himself enough times and in different ways that he will feel better about is unrealistic exercise.
The only thing that poll tells me is that the Devs who made the decision to leave it out were well aware that they could get away with it when they made the decision.
I doesn't even say that. It's a whole different thing wanting it or not wanting it than not playing because of it. That's the part that singles you out from the ones who would like it but take a look at the whole package and decide they can still have fun without it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Yep that over 60% who took the poll have shown he is clearly out if touch. I think now it's just a matter of if he tells himself enough times and in different ways that he will feel better about is unrealistic exercise.
The only thing that poll tells me is that the Devs who made the decision to leave it out were well aware that they could get away with it when they made the decision.
Seriously? Conviction is one thing, but this presumption is getting shaddy. Why do you need to invent justifications? If this is getting you upset or aggravated, I say leave it and move on.
Yep that over 60% who took the poll have shown he is clearly out if touch. I think now it's just a matter of if he tells himself enough times and in different ways that he will feel better about is unrealistic exercise.
The only thing that poll tells me is that the Devs who made the decision to leave it out were well aware that they could get away with it when they made the decision.
Seriously? Conviction is one thing, but this presumption is getting shaddy. Why do you need to invent justifications? If this is getting you upset or aggravated, I say leave it and move on.
You're right, it's quite a large presumption. But it's a known fact that any dev team working on a AAA title relies on alot of stats. If these responses are indicative at all of the general public then all it sais is most people don't care about underwater swimming. Something which the dev team was certainly well aware of (i.e. if the thought it would really bother people, they wouldn't have chosen to leave it out).
Either way, you're right; getting worked up is pointless.
You're right, it's quite a large presumption. But it's a known fact that any dev team working on a AAA title relies on alot of stats. If these responses are indicative at all of the general public then all it sais is most people don't care about underwater swimming. Something which the dev team was certainly well aware of (i.e. if the thought it would really bother people, they wouldn't have chosen to leave it out).
Without being at the meeting when they decided not to have underwater swimming, one can only speculate about the why's. They may have plans to add it later but don't feel it's a big deal. Or that's it's so inconsequential they never thought about it.
You disagree with their choice of not adding in, I get it. Hammering it in the way you're doing is making the topic less and less about moral choice and more about being 'right'. GL either way.
I just want to point out that I don't think I fall into the category of "hater" either. I actually like a lot of things they did with the game. But this thread is not about what I like about it, but rather why I choose not to buy it anyway. It may seem silly to you, but it's something that seemed important to me. My purpose for talking about it was not to get support behind my cause but rather to get people thinking about the little immersion-making details that matter to them that may or may not be in the game. I actually think the thread was quite successful in that regard. We'll never get more out of games if we're not asking for them.
The thing is OP, you pointed out so many things the game did right, but this one very minor game mechanic(or lack thereof) isenough for you to not buy it. I don't think you will find an MMORPG you want. I've discovered, over the many years of MMOs, that the perfect one I'm waiting for isn't coming.
Don't get me wrong, when I jumped into the water and found out I couldn't swim underwater, I definitely gave a sigh but the rest of the game is so damn good.
I gave the beta a try this weekend and let me tell you: I actually found that they did a lot of things right in this game. Props to the devs for all the work they put in. I'm especially impressed how successful they've been in their implementation of mass pvp. I would go into more detail of all the little things I found that were well designed in this game except I found that they took out one often ignored feature that made me decide that this is NOT a world that I want to settle in: the inability to dive underwater.
I'm sorry but this is gamebreaking for me. Do I spend a lot of time underwater in games? No. Do I care much for underwater combat? No. Do I think you should be able to hold your breath alot and swim underwater forever? No (I actually like how it works in Skyrim and Oblivion). But it's just something you "do" in virtual worlds. It's a little interaction with the world that has existed for a long time now and I see no reason to take it out (especially when your gameworld has so much water). It's just as important to me as jumping or emotes; I don't spend much time doing either of those things but take it out and the gameworld just doesn't feel "right". There's so many kinds of adventures and exploration that a player can never have now because they chose to not allow underwater swimming in any form; very disappointing.
Now before this devolves into an argument about whether or not they intend to keep diving out of the game, I just want to point out that there have been numerous forums posts about this and there has been no indication that they intend to change this. On the contrary they actually use your inability to dive and fight underwater as a wall mechanic to zones i.e. you get eaten by slaughterfish that you can't fight back against if you try to swim too far out to sea. I'm assuming for all intents and purposes that this design decision is here to stay, and I cannot abide it.
How many times in your life have you been scuba diving, spear fishing, or punching whales in the face in real life? This is not an activity one does in RL regularly furthermore they do have fishing which is the preferred method of catching beasts of the water just saying. Now granted it would be nice to see a little more depth to the water interaction in terms of being able to dive down a bit but the combat is rather useless imho and could live without either of them.
Originally posted by thunderC OP If water combat is what sells a game for you try GuildWars 2 .
I already said I don't care about underwater combat. But inability to swim underwater completely is just silly to me. It's like not allowing me to jump. I don't care for GW2 either for other reasons. I actually find much bigger flaws in that game than this one.
I find it silly that I can't pick my nose in game. My immersion has been shattered. Definitely not buying the game...
People are way too angry at the OP, for posting this.
MMO's these days are severely lacking in world building. It SHOULD be all about the immersion. It's the very same reason I get disappointed in a game if I can't do something as simple as sitting on a chair.
It's lazy development, quite simply. And it's not quite okay.
I'm still on the fringe about ESO for way too many reasons to mention here, but this certainly doesn't help.
People are way too angry at the OP, for posting this.
MMO's these days are severely lacking in world building. It SHOULD be all about the immersion. It's the very same reason I get disappointed in a game if I can't do something as simple as sitting on a chair.
It's lazy development, quite simply. And it's not quite okay.
I'm still on the fringe about ESO for way too many reasons to mention here, but this certainly doesn't help.
It's a frivolous complaint about a system he admittedly has no interest in. Sorry, but it's ridiculous.
At some point you have to wisen up and realize that game development takes lots of time and lots of money and you have to choose how to spend those resources to make the best game. Adding something like diving underwater is a waste of those resources.
Is this one of the best undercover trolls or really serious?
If you're serious, I have to say this is really really silly.
If you're a troll - good one!
Hahaha I never even thought of that. But you're right my nickname does fit the topic of this thread; what a coincidence! It's actually my RL nickname. I used to be a little overweight as a teenager but despite that I was the fastest swimmer on my swim team through all of highschool so they called me the Seacow. Despite some of the mocking behind it I quite like the nickname and still choose to use it, because it shows that you can't judge a book by its cover. The irony in the nickname is still not lost today because I look much fitter than I used to and people wonder how the nickname is relevant lol.
Comments
Makes me wonder what mmorpg you ever liked ? Other than wurm online and ATITD I can't see many mmo that didn't focus on combat.
You're misunderstanding my statement. I even said that I think combat is important. The whole point of the exercise is to point out if there's anything in the game that's NOT combat oriented. It's how you identify scope. Lots of MMO's have plenty of non-combat involved elements. Sadly they are becoming less and less.
Oh I understood, still to make you like a game so much without trying the combat still left me searching for anything remotly good enough. I mean if the game put enough effort on something other than combat I am pretty sure it would pop in my mind. I played em all.. and like I said I don't see myself liking any enough without the combat.
Vanguard diplomacy/crafting ? maybe for a bit but it's nothing without the combat. That's why I am doubtful you ever did that exercise.
I agree that there is more to mmorpg than combat, it is still the primary focus of a big majority of em. Would you play eve,uo or swg if there was no combat. There would be no point in the first place, your crafting stuff would be on display collecting dust. Exploration without any threat be it pvp or pve ? That would get boring fast.
I could see it in a true virtual world, where it's all about player interaction and social events, but those aren't games, they are just life.
No i'm not saying I would play them without combat. I probably wouldn't. The point of the exercise is to determine if there's any scope to the game. I love combat in MMORPG's; I just don't want to play an MMORPG that only has that.
So what is it then ? What game ever kept you entertained for more than 2 months ? All the mmorpg released ever had something more than combat to various degree. What kind of interaction are you looking forward to ?
I hope you know that making this a threshold issue for deciding whether you're going to play an MMO puts you in a very tiny minority. And that if you removed ESO out of the topic and posted this as a generic thread applicable to all MMOs in The Pub here you'd get laughed out of the water... so to speak.
Hell... a thread about not playing because there are no flying mounts would get more support.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The only thing that poll tells me is that the Devs who made the decision to leave it out were well aware that they could get away with it when they made the decision.
I doesn't even say that. It's a whole different thing wanting it or not wanting it than not playing because of it. That's the part that singles you out from the ones who would like it but take a look at the whole package and decide they can still have fun without it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Seriously? Conviction is one thing, but this presumption is getting shaddy. Why do you need to invent justifications? If this is getting you upset or aggravated, I say leave it and move on.
You're right, it's quite a large presumption. But it's a known fact that any dev team working on a AAA title relies on alot of stats. If these responses are indicative at all of the general public then all it sais is most people don't care about underwater swimming. Something which the dev team was certainly well aware of (i.e. if the thought it would really bother people, they wouldn't have chosen to leave it out).
Either way, you're right; getting worked up is pointless.
Without being at the meeting when they decided not to have underwater swimming, one can only speculate about the why's. They may have plans to add it later but don't feel it's a big deal. Or that's it's so inconsequential they never thought about it.
You disagree with their choice of not adding in, I get it. Hammering it in the way you're doing is making the topic less and less about moral choice and more about being 'right'. GL either way.
Actually it could be kewl to have, then base it of stamina.
The heavier armor the faster stamina drain, when stamina reaches 0 u sink.
Then either walk to land or drown.
But serious 31 pages of this crap? hahaha
The thing is OP, you pointed out so many things the game did right, but this one very minor game mechanic(or lack thereof) isenough for you to not buy it. I don't think you will find an MMORPG you want. I've discovered, over the many years of MMOs, that the perfect one I'm waiting for isn't coming.
Don't get me wrong, when I jumped into the water and found out I couldn't swim underwater, I definitely gave a sigh but the rest of the game is so damn good.
How many times in your life have you been scuba diving, spear fishing, or punching whales in the face in real life? This is not an activity one does in RL regularly furthermore they do have fishing which is the preferred method of catching beasts of the water just saying. Now granted it would be nice to see a little more depth to the water interaction in terms of being able to dive down a bit but the combat is rather useless imho and could live without either of them.
A topic like this made by a guy called "seacow".
Is this one of the best undercover trolls or really serious?
If you're serious, I have to say this is really really silly.
If you're a troll - good one!
I find it silly that I can't pick my nose in game. My immersion has been shattered. Definitely not buying the game...
People are way too angry at the OP, for posting this.
MMO's these days are severely lacking in world building. It SHOULD be all about the immersion. It's the very same reason I get disappointed in a game if I can't do something as simple as sitting on a chair.
It's lazy development, quite simply. And it's not quite okay.
I'm still on the fringe about ESO for way too many reasons to mention here, but this certainly doesn't help.
It's a frivolous complaint about a system he admittedly has no interest in. Sorry, but it's ridiculous.
At some point you have to wisen up and realize that game development takes lots of time and lots of money and you have to choose how to spend those resources to make the best game. Adding something like diving underwater is a waste of those resources.
You can kill crabs, snakes, spiders, fox, rabbits, and etc and etc but you can't kill birds. Definitely not buying this ...
/sarcasm
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Hahaha I never even thought of that. But you're right my nickname does fit the topic of this thread; what a coincidence! It's actually my RL nickname. I used to be a little overweight as a teenager but despite that I was the fastest swimmer on my swim team through all of highschool so they called me the Seacow. Despite some of the mocking behind it I quite like the nickname and still choose to use it, because it shows that you can't judge a book by its cover. The irony in the nickname is still not lost today because I look much fitter than I used to and people wonder how the nickname is relevant lol.