I think one of the problems is that sub game developers don't do a good job showing you what you are getting for that sub price.
I agree 100%, IF your talking about World of Warcraft and SOE. That is why I do not sub to those games, they never put any of their money back into the game like they should be doing to develop new content for it. WoW and SOE should have had ESO type games years ago, but they had no competition which made them greedy and stagnant. Until Now.
SOE and WoW are notorious for taking all your money and then only returning a thin penny back into the game. That is why I am throwing my Dice with new games, games like ESO, which promises a better future then SOE or WoW could ever deliver in the form of updates and content.
In fact, I'll go as far to say that ESO is what kicked SOE in the ass to start making EQ NEXT and take development more seriously. I'm glade ESO is doing what its doing, its going to put all those old games over the fire and FORCE them to have to keep up with the updates and content.
That's why I feel ESO is worth my sub fee, and their promise to continue to do content updates every 4-6 weeks. Something WoW and SOE should have been doing to their games long time ago. F2P would definatly hurt ESO because they would not be able to focus on content updates every 4-6 weeks like I want them to. It will force them to have to make Cash shop items and push updates into expansions once a year like the failed models of WoW and SOE.
The only other game I have seen spend their money on content the most was FFXIV, In fact, if you look at what they are doing, next update is going to be content the size of their main release. That s how a game company should be doing their games, and I only give time to games who will do this with their game. As you pointed out, games like GW2 where you pay the box price and then free subs, leads to no content updates or advancments in the gaming industry that most players demand.
There is good and bad to subs. Most F2P games have detrimental cash grabs. The negative to subs is if you are an infrequent player (say 1 time per week), it basically makes it not worth trying as that becomes rather expensive. To those that play every day, at least you don't have to worry about continual cash grabs and p2w.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
Or, we could look at the quality of that MMO and still come up with that it isn't worth paying a monthly fee for...........which TESO is not going to be for a lot of people since they are targeting a lot of NON-MMO players, and even fans of the series that are MMO players that are sick of the old MMO designs.
That is totally up to you! I like thousands of others find it worth the fee! Thousands of others don't. It's amazing what humans can do with choice.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Oh good, yet another F2P vs. P2P thread. These never get old, do they?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
My take on this is very simple and not about the games specifically.
Paying for entertainment is the norm, excluding those pirating movies, games etc. etc. Those fall in a different category.
First, I don't mind the P2P option. Been doing it for years and if I enjoy my time there, it's worth it. Those who don't simply cancel the sub and move on. It's not rocket science.
Second, this whole F2P debacle being better, I have an issue with. Not because of the state of the game, or what they are charging for, or even the paywalls. It's the morality of those that whole-heartedly support it and play for free and this is why (again my opinion):
If you play a F2P, do you revel in the fact you pay nothing? If not, then you end up giving a little bit anyway to help support it no? If it's that difference you complain about so be it but the choice is still yours.
If you pay nothing at all, you automatically expect those that pay (the whales, etc.) into it to cover your playtime. Those paying have no issue paying they enjoy it, but you who complain about having to pay a sub game really is because you feel entitled.
Because you play another game for free, and if no one paid the game would not survive, and instead of simply choosing not to play a certain sub game, you complain about it and even go so far to say it will fail. Why? Is it because you really wanted to play this game but because you let others pay for you in F2P games you can't play this one?
I personally don't blame the game companies for the F2P state Mmo's are in today. I don't. However, this rage about P2P is ludicrous to the extreme because really, it's a game and if you don't want to pay a cent to play. Don't.
Why do you really care who will pay $15/month when you obviously don't care who already pays for your entertainment in those free ones? If you feel that you should be able to play for free and at someone else's expense, then it is all about entitlement no matter how you convince yourself otherwise.
No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.
People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games
I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.
I bet if you go out for one night on the piss you spend more than $60.i gladly pay £8.99 a month sub fee for any game considering I don't drink alcohol or soft drinks.i save a fortune each month.thats why I have over 100 games in my steam account.And those hundred games were mostly got on discount.
There have been plenty of sub games that were/are sub-par - SWTOR, TWS, RIFT - shall I go on?
Doing a cash grab like this is ridiculous - give the game free with a sub or B2P with CS. Played the BETA can't see what the draw is - prefer the older ES games, much more involving and harder to play.
Did you do any pvp, or group dungeons? You have to see there are subtle differences in the games. One you can play on your own and the other with friends. Heck, I'm playing Oblivion, South Park (for now), and some WoW. Why can't people play any of the ES games and ESO? For some reason people keep saying the original ES games are better, which they probably are as a single player game, but as an mmo they aren't.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
There have been plenty of sub games that were/are sub-par - SWTOR, TWS, RIFT - shall I go on?
Doing a cash grab like this is ridiculous - give the game free with a sub or B2P with CS. Played the BETA can't see what the draw is - prefer the older ES games, much more involving and harder to play.
You have a strange definition of sub-par, TOR is extremely successful, with the only western game we have *any* reason to believe is making more money being WoW, and Rift has had respectable revenues. ESO is arguably a substantially better game than Rift or TOR (with a much better job done on it's RPG elements than WoW) so it is probably going to do just fine.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
Or, we could look at the quality of that MMO and still come up with that it isn't worth paying a monthly fee for...........which TESO is not going to be for a lot of people since they are targeting a lot of NON-MMO players, and even fans of the series that are MMO players that are sick of the old MMO designs.
That is totally up to you! I like thousands of others find it worth the fee! Thousands of others don't. It's amazing what humans can do with choice.
Pointing out why what you said means nothing. Anyone deciding its not worth the sub fee is doing so for a reason. Either the quality is not there or they feel the reason to continue to have to pay for what you already purchased is foolish, especially when all the original reasons for them were lies, no longer exist or is total BS created to get you to just keep giving them money.
All reasons are valid.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Does it really matter? I mean really, the game will be going free to play along with wildstar in about 6 months because all the people who fell in love in the first month will be sending their "Sorry this game is boring" speech or "It's not worth the payment" in months time.
No questions, no answers, no wishes, just know it's going to happen. So if you don't want to pay the subscription fee now just wait until it goes free to play.
Did you do any pvp, or group dungeons? You have to see there are subtle differences in the games. One you can play on your own and the other with friends. Heck, I'm playing Oblivion, South Park (for now), and some WoW. Why can't people play any of the ES games and ESO? For some reason people keep saying the original ES games are better, which they probably are as a single player game, but as an mmo they aren't.
Daggerfall and possibly Morrowind were better as single player games. Oblivion and Skyrim are bad jokes, and it's hard to believe the same company made them that made the earlier games. ESO is the best entry in the ES series in years.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Daggerfall and possibly Morrowind were better as single player games. Oblivion and Skyrim are bad jokes, and it's hard to believe the same company made them that made the earlier games. ESO is the best entry in the ES series in years.
All it takes to be better than a bad joke is to be not so bad. So you really didn't say much did you. You said even less when you look at how much more popular what you call "bad jokes" are so the vast majority of the people that are going to be looking at TESO are going to be those that think those games are great, and the older ones are worse........making TESO look worse and not better.
Another MMO missing their target audience, another MMO made by a corporation looking for WoW numbers, not going to make it, fire everyone involved and then go F2P.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Did you do any pvp, or group dungeons? You have to see there are subtle differences in the games. One you can play on your own and the other with friends. Heck, I'm playing Oblivion, South Park (for now), and some WoW. Why can't people play any of the ES games and ESO? For some reason people keep saying the original ES games are better, which they probably are as a single player game, but as an mmo they aren't.
Daggerfall and possibly Morrowind were better as single player games. Oblivion and Skyrim are bad jokes, and it's hard to believe the same company made them that made the earlier games. ESO is the best entry in the ES series in years.
is that base on your rating or base on millions other people rating? b/c as i see so far. millions other people rate Skyrim as the best. and i'm too. i even think gothic 2 better than morrowind.
All it takes to be better than a bad joke is to be not so bad. So you really didn't say much did you. You said even less when you look at how much more popular what you call "bad jokes" are so the vast majority of the people that are going to be looking at TESO are going to be those that think those games are great, and the older ones are worse........making TESO look worse and not better.
Originally posted by squalleonaha
is that base on your rating or base on millions other people rating? b/c as i see so far. millions other people rate Skyrim as the best. and i'm too. i even think gothic 2 better than morrowind.
Tens or hundreds of millions of people eat at McDonald's every day, that doesn't make the food there high quality. Oblivion and Skyrim sold more largely because when they came out the market was larger, not because they were better games. Also, a lot of the people buying both bought them on consoles, and as we all know the average console gamer is barely a gamer, and is far less discerning that the average PC gamer.
(Console gamer in this sense defined as someone who actually prefers games on consoles, not simply someone who has a console.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Daggerfall and possibly Morrowind were better as single player games. Oblivion and Skyrim are bad jokes, and it's hard to believe the same company made them that made the earlier games. ESO is the best entry in the ES series in years.
All it takes to be better than a bad joke is to be not so bad. So you really didn't say much did you. You said even less when you look at how much more popular what you call "bad jokes" are so the vast majority of the people that are going to be looking at TESO are going to be those that think those games are great, and the older ones are worse........making TESO look worse and not better.
Another MMO missing their target audience, another MMO made by a corporation looking for WoW numbers, not going to make it, fire everyone involved and then go F2P.
I'm curious JJ82, and be honest, what is it you like in games, is it First person shooters, is it PVE and RPG storylines, or is it PVP. What is it you don't like about this game, I seen you hate this game since three months ago but never ever give a reason why you personally hate it. Whats your favorite features in a game?
Is every game going to be perfect for everyone, no of course not, but this game has the best I seen of any type of feature and play style up to date. Its shocking that someone couldn't find atleast one feature they were happy with in a game that's AAA like ESO.
Tens or hundreds of millions of people eat at McDonald's every day, that doesn't make the food there high quality. Oblivion and Skyrim sold more largely because when they came out the market was larger, not because they were better games. Also, a lot of the people buying both bought them on consoles, and as we all know the average console gamer is barely a gamer, and is far less discerning that the average PC gamer.
(Console gamer in this sense defined as someone who actually prefers games on consoles, not simply someone who has a console.)
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I'm sure you'll hear people call this a cash grab, but the fact is... What game out there that is Free to Play even offers the same level of QUALITY as your going to get in ESO without having to pay out your ass, only one I can think of that's even half as good quality as ESO would be Rift.
GW2 (b2p-i know, but no monthly sub). im a pvp guy (mostly) and am a very casual gamer. ive played the beta for the past 2 beta weekends. as soon as i got to level 10 i jumped into the pvp battlegrounds...... well i got the same enjoyment out of ESO pvp as GW2 pvp. both are basically the samething imo.... mostly zergs running around with some 1 to 2-3 smaller groups running around from point A to B... etc etc.... both are just kinda, well, meh. so for me as a very casual gamer im going to be playing the one that doesnt require a sub fee. (as of right now)
All it takes to be better than a bad joke is to be not so bad. So you really didn't say much did you. You said even less when you look at how much more popular what you call "bad jokes" are so the vast majority of the people that are going to be looking at TESO are going to be those that think those games are great, and the older ones are worse........making TESO look worse and not better.
Originally posted by squalleonaha
is that base on your rating or base on millions other people rating? b/c as i see so far. millions other people rate Skyrim as the best. and i'm too. i even think gothic 2 better than morrowind.
Tens or hundreds of millions of people eat at McDonald's every day, that doesn't make the food there high quality. Oblivion and Skyrim sold more largely because when they came out the market was larger, not because they were better games. Also, a lot of the people buying both bought them on consoles, and as we all know the average console gamer is barely a gamer, and is far less discerning that the average PC gamer.
(Console gamer in this sense defined as someone who actually prefers games on consoles, not simply someone who has a console.)
however, the thing we talking here is the game rating. not number of buyer.
also, the more people, the more different opinions and the harder for the game to get high rating. however, at the end skyrim still have higher rating than morrowind ( base on gamespot). that mean, it proved by many people who voted, rather than just your opinion saying morrowind the better.
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Bethesda in recent years is McDonald's. ESO may not be a five star restaurant, but it's at least BJ's or the Cheesecake Factory compared to the Mickey D's of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Fallout 3.
EDIT:
Originally posted by squalleonaha
however, the thing we talking here is the game rating. not number of buyer.
also, the more people, the more different opinions and the harder for the game to get high rating. however, at the end skyrim still have higher rating than morrowind ( base on gamespot). that mean, it proved by many people who voted, rather than just your opinion saying morrowind the better.
And you're still confusing popularity with quality.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
Or, we could look at the quality of that MMO and still come up with that it isn't worth paying a monthly fee for...........which TESO is not going to be for a lot of people since they are targeting a lot of NON-MMO players, and even fans of the series that are MMO players that are sick of the old MMO designs.
That is totally up to you! I like thousands of others find it worth the fee! Thousands of others don't. It's amazing what humans can do with choice.
Pointing out why what you said means nothing. Anyone deciding its not worth the sub fee is doing so for a reason. Either the quality is not there or they feel the reason to continue to have to pay for what you already purchased is foolish, especially when all the original reasons for them were lies, no longer exist or is total BS created to get you to just keep giving them money.
All reasons are valid.
Nope, going to give them money because the beta was fun, and I enjoy ES! I just plain like the game.That is my choice.
I'm not sure why folks keep bringing up a sub fee, with any title that has one, it is getting old. You can't have continuous content upgrades without paying for it in an mmorpg. If you don't like the game because of it, don't play!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.
IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Bethesda in recent years is McDonald's. ESO may not be a five star restaurant, but it's at least BJ's or the Cheesecake Factory compared to the Mickey D's of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Fallout 3.
EDIT:
Originally posted by squalleonaha
however, the thing we talking here is the game rating. not number of buyer.
also, the more people, the more different opinions and the harder for the game to get high rating. however, at the end skyrim still have higher rating than morrowind ( base on gamespot). that mean, it proved by many people who voted, rather than just your opinion saying morrowind the better.
And you're still confusing popularity with quality.
I think the best way to put it would be saying that MMORPG players for YEARS have been saying they wanted NEW type of MMO's other then WoW Clones, ect. They are getting that with ESO. Single players for years have been wanting their Single player games to be MMO's, like Skyrim and how the fan base tried to make SKYRIM ONLINE with mods.
ESO gives what MMO players have been asking for for years, and it also gives Single players what they have been wanting also for years. If you don't like this idea, then maybe you like WoW clones and ESO is to foreign for you, maybe its a bit like Mongolian for you, that means you wont like this game, theres other games out there, don't hate people for liking change, or it sounds like a disgruntled employee who hates his company, or the kid who doesn't want to play with others during recess.
No ones excluding you from the Next Gen gaming fun, your just excluding yourself from it because you don't like or understand it. It's foreign, its change.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.
IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.
Lol compare ESO and South Park? Ever play Skyrim? GTA5? GW2? BF4? Diablo3? Ever play Neverwinter? It's free, Rift, Swtor? They are free! They are all better than ESO especially the buy to play games. ESO should be $40 buy to play.
None of these games are better than TESO .. But you know what, developers made the game, its zenimax and bethsedas game, if they charge 100 dollars per month, all you can is cry, but many of you would create topics asking if they can sue them because price is too hight turds
Tens or hundreds of millions of people eat at McDonald's every day, that doesn't make the food there high quality. Oblivion and Skyrim sold more largely because when they came out the market was larger, not because they were better games. Also, a lot of the people buying both bought them on consoles, and as we all know the average console gamer is barely a gamer, and is far less discerning that the average PC gamer.
(Console gamer in this sense defined as someone who actually prefers games on consoles, not simply someone who has a console.)
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
Why do you think this? ESO had 3 million beta applications and people know what the game is about. The gameplay is all over the internet, and forums like this have discussion about it all the time. The title still has a huge following of people eager and ready to play. Your statement might have been ok a couple months ago, but now it is less substantial. People know what TESO is. If like it you do, and if you don't, you don't!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Comments
I agree 100%, IF your talking about World of Warcraft and SOE. That is why I do not sub to those games, they never put any of their money back into the game like they should be doing to develop new content for it. WoW and SOE should have had ESO type games years ago, but they had no competition which made them greedy and stagnant. Until Now.
SOE and WoW are notorious for taking all your money and then only returning a thin penny back into the game. That is why I am throwing my Dice with new games, games like ESO, which promises a better future then SOE or WoW could ever deliver in the form of updates and content.
In fact, I'll go as far to say that ESO is what kicked SOE in the ass to start making EQ NEXT and take development more seriously. I'm glade ESO is doing what its doing, its going to put all those old games over the fire and FORCE them to have to keep up with the updates and content.
That's why I feel ESO is worth my sub fee, and their promise to continue to do content updates every 4-6 weeks. Something WoW and SOE should have been doing to their games long time ago. F2P would definatly hurt ESO because they would not be able to focus on content updates every 4-6 weeks like I want them to. It will force them to have to make Cash shop items and push updates into expansions once a year like the failed models of WoW and SOE.
The only other game I have seen spend their money on content the most was FFXIV, In fact, if you look at what they are doing, next update is going to be content the size of their main release. That s how a game company should be doing their games, and I only give time to games who will do this with their game. As you pointed out, games like GW2 where you pay the box price and then free subs, leads to no content updates or advancments in the gaming industry that most players demand.
There is good and bad to subs. Most F2P games have detrimental cash grabs. The negative to subs is if you are an infrequent player (say 1 time per week), it basically makes it not worth trying as that becomes rather expensive. To those that play every day, at least you don't have to worry about continual cash grabs and p2w.
That is totally up to you!
I like thousands of others find it worth the fee! Thousands of others don't. It's amazing what humans can do with choice.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My take on this is very simple and not about the games specifically.
Paying for entertainment is the norm, excluding those pirating movies, games etc. etc. Those fall in a different category.
First, I don't mind the P2P option. Been doing it for years and if I enjoy my time there, it's worth it. Those who don't simply cancel the sub and move on. It's not rocket science.
Second, this whole F2P debacle being better, I have an issue with. Not because of the state of the game, or what they are charging for, or even the paywalls. It's the morality of those that whole-heartedly support it and play for free and this is why (again my opinion):
If you play a F2P, do you revel in the fact you pay nothing? If not, then you end up giving a little bit anyway to help support it no? If it's that difference you complain about so be it but the choice is still yours.
If you pay nothing at all, you automatically expect those that pay (the whales, etc.) into it to cover your playtime. Those paying have no issue paying they enjoy it, but you who complain about having to pay a sub game really is because you feel entitled.
Because you play another game for free, and if no one paid the game would not survive, and instead of simply choosing not to play a certain sub game, you complain about it and even go so far to say it will fail. Why? Is it because you really wanted to play this game but because you let others pay for you in F2P games you can't play this one?
I personally don't blame the game companies for the F2P state Mmo's are in today. I don't. However, this rage about P2P is ludicrous to the extreme because really, it's a game and if you don't want to pay a cent to play. Don't.
Why do you really care who will pay $15/month when you obviously don't care who already pays for your entertainment in those free ones? If you feel that you should be able to play for free and at someone else's expense, then it is all about entitlement no matter how you convince yourself otherwise.
I bet if you go out for one night on the piss you spend more than $60.i gladly pay £8.99 a month sub fee for any game considering I don't drink alcohol or soft drinks.i save a fortune each month.thats why I have over 100 games in my steam account.And those hundred games were mostly got on discount.
Did you do any pvp, or group dungeons? You have to see there are subtle differences in the games. One you can play on your own and the other with friends. Heck, I'm playing Oblivion, South Park (for now), and some WoW. Why can't people play any of the ES games and ESO? For some reason people keep saying the original ES games are better, which they probably are as a single player game, but as an mmo they aren't.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
You have a strange definition of sub-par, TOR is extremely successful, with the only western game we have *any* reason to believe is making more money being WoW, and Rift has had respectable revenues. ESO is arguably a substantially better game than Rift or TOR (with a much better job done on it's RPG elements than WoW) so it is probably going to do just fine.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Pointing out why what you said means nothing. Anyone deciding its not worth the sub fee is doing so for a reason. Either the quality is not there or they feel the reason to continue to have to pay for what you already purchased is foolish, especially when all the original reasons for them were lies, no longer exist or is total BS created to get you to just keep giving them money.
All reasons are valid.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Does it really matter? I mean really, the game will be going free to play along with wildstar in about 6 months because all the people who fell in love in the first month will be sending their "Sorry this game is boring" speech or "It's not worth the payment" in months time.
No questions, no answers, no wishes, just know it's going to happen. So if you don't want to pay the subscription fee now just wait until it goes free to play.
Daggerfall and possibly Morrowind were better as single player games. Oblivion and Skyrim are bad jokes, and it's hard to believe the same company made them that made the earlier games. ESO is the best entry in the ES series in years.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
All it takes to be better than a bad joke is to be not so bad. So you really didn't say much did you. You said even less when you look at how much more popular what you call "bad jokes" are so the vast majority of the people that are going to be looking at TESO are going to be those that think those games are great, and the older ones are worse........making TESO look worse and not better.
Another MMO missing their target audience, another MMO made by a corporation looking for WoW numbers, not going to make it, fire everyone involved and then go F2P.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
is that base on your rating or base on millions other people rating? b/c as i see so far. millions other people rate Skyrim as the best. and i'm too. i even think gothic 2 better than morrowind.
Tens or hundreds of millions of people eat at McDonald's every day, that doesn't make the food there high quality. Oblivion and Skyrim sold more largely because when they came out the market was larger, not because they were better games. Also, a lot of the people buying both bought them on consoles, and as we all know the average console gamer is barely a gamer, and is far less discerning that the average PC gamer.
(Console gamer in this sense defined as someone who actually prefers games on consoles, not simply someone who has a console.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I'm curious JJ82, and be honest, what is it you like in games, is it First person shooters, is it PVE and RPG storylines, or is it PVP. What is it you don't like about this game, I seen you hate this game since three months ago but never ever give a reason why you personally hate it. Whats your favorite features in a game?
Is every game going to be perfect for everyone, no of course not, but this game has the best I seen of any type of feature and play style up to date. Its shocking that someone couldn't find atleast one feature they were happy with in a game that's AAA like ESO.
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
GW2 (b2p-i know, but no monthly sub). im a pvp guy (mostly) and am a very casual gamer. ive played the beta for the past 2 beta weekends. as soon as i got to level 10 i jumped into the pvp battlegrounds...... well i got the same enjoyment out of ESO pvp as GW2 pvp. both are basically the samething imo.... mostly zergs running around with some 1 to 2-3 smaller groups running around from point A to B... etc etc.... both are just kinda, well, meh. so for me as a very casual gamer im going to be playing the one that doesnt require a sub fee. (as of right now)
however, the thing we talking here is the game rating. not number of buyer.
also, the more people, the more different opinions and the harder for the game to get high rating. however, at the end skyrim still have higher rating than morrowind ( base on gamespot). that mean, it proved by many people who voted, rather than just your opinion saying morrowind the better.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Bethesda in recent years is McDonald's. ESO may not be a five star restaurant, but it's at least BJ's or the Cheesecake Factory compared to the Mickey D's of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Fallout 3.
EDIT:
And you're still confusing popularity with quality.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Nope, going to give them money because the beta was fun, and I enjoy ES! I just plain like the game.That is my choice.
I'm not sure why folks keep bringing up a sub fee, with any title that has one, it is getting old. You can't have continuous content upgrades without paying for it in an mmorpg. If you don't like the game because of it, don't play!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
+1
I think the best way to put it would be saying that MMORPG players for YEARS have been saying they wanted NEW type of MMO's other then WoW Clones, ect. They are getting that with ESO. Single players for years have been wanting their Single player games to be MMO's, like Skyrim and how the fan base tried to make SKYRIM ONLINE with mods.
ESO gives what MMO players have been asking for for years, and it also gives Single players what they have been wanting also for years. If you don't like this idea, then maybe you like WoW clones and ESO is to foreign for you, maybe its a bit like Mongolian for you, that means you wont like this game, theres other games out there, don't hate people for liking change, or it sounds like a disgruntled employee who hates his company, or the kid who doesn't want to play with others during recess.
No ones excluding you from the Next Gen gaming fun, your just excluding yourself from it because you don't like or understand it. It's foreign, its change.
None of these games are better than TESO .. But you know what, developers made the game, its zenimax and bethsedas game, if they charge 100 dollars per month, all you can is cry, but many of you would create topics asking if they can sue them because price is too hight
turds
Why do you think this? ESO had 3 million beta applications and people know what the game is about. The gameplay is all over the internet, and forums like this have discussion about it all the time. The title still has a huge following of people eager and ready to play. Your statement might have been ok a couple months ago, but now it is less substantial. People know what TESO is. If like it you do, and if you don't, you don't!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.