Face the economic facts. Game development companies need to recoup costs. P2P and sub is fine. If that fails due to game and the game can survive and expand with F2P who cares. F2P at the twilight years of a game is great for people. Not sure why all the bitching and moaning about the pay styles. Just do what feels right to you. If a game can not make it as one it will go as another.
I'm guessing most folks that complain are folks without income. My heart is with you folks without income. However, I would much rather pay a sub for a game that isn't constantly begging me to to spend money on odds and ends.
I will say though I think Neverwinter has hit on a very acceptable and viable F2P cash-shop model. Sure I had to invest in bag and bank space at the start but now I only rarely spend money in the game.
Yeah you figured it all out. its just poor jobless people who complain about 15 bucks a month while easily sitting in front of the latest PC which can play ESO in all its glory and somehow also manage to play for the internet bills every month.... such poor people.
This dead horse has been flogged many times and still OP and people like you will never understand that is not about the actual 15 bucks a month but 'perceived' value of money.
Only because 15 buck is chump change for me doesn't mean i light it on fire or flush it down the toilet.
Game could be 5 bucks a month for all i care but if i deem it to be not worth my money i won't spend that 5 bucks.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Maltisse Why don't f2p and b2p fans just stick to there specific game threads, why try and convince us sub cats that your way is better? I love paying a sub for full content I dislike cash shops so I pay subs and I am happy. I think this has to do with the overall quality of f2p minded gamers and their personal entitlement issues. If you don't like subs good for you, shut your hole and stick to f2p. Although I do understand since you do not have meaningfull content in your f2p you must grief our forums.
I also love replaying the mass effect trilogy whenever I feel like it.
Can you do that with TESO once you've stopped playing a sub?
Because I can do that with TSW and Gw2. And we both can agree that TSW is THE MMO with the better quests Talking about meaningful content. Go ahead, keep telling yourself lies to feel better for yourself Maybe that makes you go to bed easier i dont know. But you are generally wrong.
In all honesty P2P games tend to have a better community and slightly better quality in the updates compaired to F2P games. I rather pay 15 a month and know the game wont be filled with trolls and rube people then play a free game where it seems that those are the only people playing. I see a lot of people complaining about the sub fee and in all honesty if you dont want to pay it then dont play the game, wait untill they offer another option. If anything i could see this game going B2P but F2P is unlikely.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Originally posted by Maltisse Why don't f2p and b2p fans just stick to there specific game threads, why try and convince us sub cats that your way is better? I love paying a sub for full content I dislike cash shops so I pay subs and I am happy. I think this has to do with the overall quality of f2p minded gamers and their personal entitlement issues. If you don't like subs good for you, shut your hole and stick to f2p. Although I do understand since you do not have meaningfull content in your f2p you must grief our forums.
What is with this us vs them soccer fan mentality? its a discussion board. OP's post warranted a discussion otherwise why even post here? why don't you open your own blog or something if you don't want opposing opinions?
And if you think people here can actually change you or convince you into doing something you don't want to then i suggest step away from internet right now.
But hey since we are talking about 'meaningful' content please point me towards this mythical P2P MMO. Pretty please.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by jircris In all honesty P2P games tend to have a better community and slightly better quality in the updates compaired to F2P games. I rather pay 15 a month and know the game wont be filled with trolls and rube people then play a free game where it seems that those are the only people playing. I see a lot of people complaining about the sub fee and in all honesty if you dont want to pay it then dont play the game, wait untill they offer another option. If anything i could see this game going B2P but F2P is unlikely.
You are no doubt very honest.
I am currently subbed to WOW and EVE ONLINE..i can not tell you (dont have enough words) what an amazing community both of these games has really. Just little angels running around everywhere. Its like an Utopia of MMO worlds. Just perfect.
FACT- If you can afford 15 bucks a month there is no way you can be rude to people or be a troll. It is just impossible.
Originally posted by Horusra Face the economic facts. Game development companies need to recoup costs. P2P and sub is fine. If that fails due to game and the game can survive and expand with F2P who cares. F2P at the twilight years of a game is great for people. Not sure why all the bitching and moaning about the pay styles. Just do what feels right to you. If a game can not make it as one it will go as another.
Absolutely agree. Not sure how Zenimax ever managed to fund ESO given that Morrowind had no no sub, Oblivion had no sub and - you guessed it - Skyrim had no sub.
Or maybe a sub isn't needed to recoup costs.
Sadly having a sub will reduce sales which may mean that the sub will be needed to recoup their costs - probably reassigning most of the development team to boot whilst continuing to talk up all the great plans they have (or had). Like that never happens.
I'm guessing most folks that complain are folks without income. My heart is with you folks without income. However, I would much rather pay a sub for a game that isn't constantly begging me to to spend money on odds and ends.
I will say though I think Neverwinter has hit on a very acceptable and viable F2P cash-shop model. Sure I had to invest in bag and bank space at the start but now I only rarely spend money in the game.
Yeah you figured it all out. its just poor jobless people who complain about 15 bucks a month while easily sitting in front of the latest PC which can play ESO in all its glory and somehow also manage to play for the internet bills every month.... such poor people.
This dead horse has been flogged many times and still OP and people like you will never understand that is not about the actual 15 bucks a month but 'perceived' value of money.
Only because 15 buck is chump change for me doesn't mean i light it on fire or flush it down the toilet.
Game could be 5 bucks a month for all i care but if i deem it to be not worth my money i won't spend that 5 bucks.
Agree. This is not about the money but about "perceived value".
Like I said in a post above what if Zenimax had decided to charge $30 a month. That OK? What about $50? I could afford $150 a month can "you"? If not I could come back at you and say "get a proper job" and "entitlement mentality".
Agree. This is not about the money but about "perceived value".
Like I said in a post above what if Zenimax had decided to charge $30 a month. That OK? What about $50? I could afford $150 a month can "you"? If not I could come back at you and say "get a proper job" and "entitlement mentality".
Depends entirely on how much time you have to play, in my view. If you are going to play thirty hours or more in the month, $30 a month is fine. If you are going to play 150 hours in a month, $150 is fine. Hell, part of me would rather they charge hourly than monthly anyway. Don't have time to play in a given month? That's fine, you won't get charged anything, and you don't need to hassle with cancelling your sub. Planning to play two hundred hours? Get ready to pay up.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Agree. This is not about the money but about "perceived value".
Like I said in a post above what if Zenimax had decided to charge $30 a month. That OK? What about $50? I could afford $150 a month can "you"? If not I could come back at you and say "get a proper job" and "entitlement mentality".
Depends entirely on how much time you have to play, in my view. If you are going to play thirty hours or more in the month, $30 a month is fine. If you are going to play 150 hours in a month, $150 is fine. Hell, part of me would rather they charge hourly than monthly anyway. Don't have time to play in a given month? That's fine, you won't get charged anything, and you don't need to hassle with cancelling your sub. Planning to play two hundred hours? Get ready to pay up.
Yep. That is akin to the 10 cents or 50 cents or whatever approach or you can pay $15 or $30 or $150 a month. People do the suns about what it is worth to them and decide to play or not.
Would a pay by the hour model fit with "free" content however? One of my gripes - and I believe one of the problems with subs - is that there is no link between new content and the sub. If you play 1 hour a month and pay 50 cents do you get all the new content - if you take a year off, pay nothing, and come back you do. The business model is messed up imo.
Yep. That is akin to the 10 cents or 50 cents or whatever approach or you can pay $15 or $30 or $150 a month. People do the suns about what it is worth to them and decide to play or not.
Would a pay by the hour model fit with "free" content however? One of my gripes - and I believe one of the problems with subs - is that there is no link between new content and the sub. If you play 1 hour a month and pay 50 cents do you get all the new content - if you take a year off, pay nothing, and come back you do. The business model is messed up imo.
I think one of the benefits for players of a pay by the hour system is that devs would actually have more incentive to develop new content. If you have to pay, however small the amount, for every hour of playtime, you are a lot less likely to be willing to spend time on repeating old content. If the company wants the revenue to keep coming in, they have to keep providing new things for you to do with your hours.
There would be a much better relationship between money spent and value received in a hourly system. Right now you take ten different people paying the same monthly fee, and you get ten substantially different levels of value received depending on how much time their other commitments allow them to play.
And, before people squawk about how it would kill socializing or "community" if people were essentially getting charged for time they spend standing around chatting, they could easily make the largely content free "hub" areas exempt from the time counter. Outside the city adventuring? Meter is running. In a PvP zone? Meter is running. Chilling out in the tavern, or browsing the shops? Meter paused.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
A: Zenimax believe this wil give them greater PROFIT.
It is a gamble however compared to the alternative used by all previous ES titles - no sub and paid for new content. If it works for them all credit to them but given how many games have launched in the last 5+ years and not "fulfilled their potential" no one should be under any illusion that this is a gamble on the part of Zenimax. I would prefer them to play safe!
A: Zenimax believe this wil give them greater PROFIT.
It is a gamble however compared to the alternative used by all previous ES titles - no sub and paid for new content. If it works for them all credit to them but given how many games have launched in the last 5+ years and not "fulfilled their potential" no one should be under any illusion that this is a gamble on the part of Zenimax. I would prefer them to play safe!
This. So many people on these forums seem to forget that those companies are in this business to make money. They are not a charity that you as customer are supposed to give money to. They have to earn your money.
A: Zenimax believe this wil give them greater PROFIT.
It is a gamble however compared to the alternative used by all previous ES titles - no sub and paid for new content. If it works for them all credit to them but given how many games have launched in the last 5+ years and not "fulfilled their potential" no one should be under any illusion that this is a gamble on the part of Zenimax. I would prefer them to play safe!
This. So many people on these forums seem to forget that those companies are in this business to make money. They are not a charity that you as customer are supposed to give money to. They have to earn your money.
this and not only that but just like every other MMO keeping in mind this isnt the first big budget AAA MMO to release in the last 5 to 7 years, there have been plenty of others, who also gave in and adopted some form of hybrid model, this wont be the exception unfortunately... just like all of those other games this game will have massive sales hold onto a big portion of the player base for 2 - 4 months and it'll drop off, WHY? and dont jump down my throat here, but unforseen circumstances, as much as you'd like to think ZOS is infallible they arent, post launch features they want to implement take time to develop and test, while thats happening people are finding game breaking and non game breaking bugs a long the way, where development team either needs to get reassigned to address issues or they leave the bugs happening which might turn people off that they arent planning on fixing a product they considered to be "launch" worthy, if they do assign people to fixing the problems it's hard to say how many man hours / people it's gonna take to make workarounds or fix the core of the problem. then post launch features get pushed back, meanwhile the majority of the base is flying through adventure zones etc... starting to get wrestless, new post launch features get launched but now the development on new content for people already ahead is pushed back and people get bored, start leaving, 8 months down the track they're "looking into hybrid models" and you can only hope they adopt a system like what Rift has.
all in all, this wont be the exception, it's not the first big budget AAA mmo to ship in the last 5 - 8 years, it has very high expectations from the playerbase, and it's a long fall down when those expectations arent met, development teams are only human, this game still has a lot of problems / bugs that need addressing while they're trying to polish it up for launch in 3 weeks and only time will really tell.
it comes down to a matter of them giving in an adopting the model earlier on.. or holding out for as long as possible out of pride. but it will happen.
Comments
Yeah you figured it all out. its just poor jobless people who complain about 15 bucks a month while easily sitting in front of the latest PC which can play ESO in all its glory and somehow also manage to play for the internet bills every month.... such poor people.
This dead horse has been flogged many times and still OP and people like you will never understand that is not about the actual 15 bucks a month but 'perceived' value of money.
Only because 15 buck is chump change for me doesn't mean i light it on fire or flush it down the toilet.
Game could be 5 bucks a month for all i care but if i deem it to be not worth my money i won't spend that 5 bucks.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I also love replaying the mass effect trilogy whenever I feel like it.
Can you do that with TESO once you've stopped playing a sub?
Because I can do that with TSW and Gw2. And we both can agree that TSW is THE MMO with the better quests
Talking about meaningful content. Go ahead, keep telling yourself lies to feel better for yourself 
Maybe that makes you go to bed easier i dont know. But you are generally wrong.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
What is with this us vs them soccer fan mentality? its a discussion board. OP's post warranted a discussion otherwise why even post here? why don't you open your own blog or something if you don't want opposing opinions?
And if you think people here can actually change you or convince you into doing something you don't want to then i suggest step away from internet right now.
But hey since we are talking about 'meaningful' content please point me towards this mythical P2P MMO. Pretty please.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
You are no doubt very honest.
I am currently subbed to WOW and EVE ONLINE..i can not tell you (dont have enough words) what an amazing community both of these games has really. Just little angels running around everywhere. Its like an Utopia of MMO worlds. Just perfect.
FACT- If you can afford 15 bucks a month there is no way you can be rude to people or be a troll. It is just impossible.
Absolutely agree. Not sure how Zenimax ever managed to fund ESO given that Morrowind had no no sub, Oblivion had no sub and - you guessed it - Skyrim had no sub.
Or maybe a sub isn't needed to recoup costs.
Sadly having a sub will reduce sales which may mean that the sub will be needed to recoup their costs - probably reassigning most of the development team to boot whilst continuing to talk up all the great plans they have (or had). Like that never happens.
Agree. This is not about the money but about "perceived value".
Like I said in a post above what if Zenimax had decided to charge $30 a month. That OK? What about $50? I could afford $150 a month can "you"? If not I could come back at you and say "get a proper job" and "entitlement mentality".
Depends entirely on how much time you have to play, in my view. If you are going to play thirty hours or more in the month, $30 a month is fine. If you are going to play 150 hours in a month, $150 is fine. Hell, part of me would rather they charge hourly than monthly anyway. Don't have time to play in a given month? That's fine, you won't get charged anything, and you don't need to hassle with cancelling your sub. Planning to play two hundred hours? Get ready to pay up.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Yep. That is akin to the 10 cents or 50 cents or whatever approach or you can pay $15 or $30 or $150 a month. People do the suns about what it is worth to them and decide to play or not.
Would a pay by the hour model fit with "free" content however? One of my gripes - and I believe one of the problems with subs - is that there is no link between new content and the sub. If you play 1 hour a month and pay 50 cents do you get all the new content - if you take a year off, pay nothing, and come back you do. The business model is messed up imo.
I think one of the benefits for players of a pay by the hour system is that devs would actually have more incentive to develop new content. If you have to pay, however small the amount, for every hour of playtime, you are a lot less likely to be willing to spend time on repeating old content. If the company wants the revenue to keep coming in, they have to keep providing new things for you to do with your hours.
There would be a much better relationship between money spent and value received in a hourly system. Right now you take ten different people paying the same monthly fee, and you get ten substantially different levels of value received depending on how much time their other commitments allow them to play.
And, before people squawk about how it would kill socializing or "community" if people were essentially getting charged for time they spend standing around chatting, they could easily make the largely content free "hub" areas exempt from the time counter. Outside the city adventuring? Meter is running. In a PvP zone? Meter is running. Chilling out in the tavern, or browsing the shops? Meter paused.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Q: Why does ESO have a sub?
A: Zenimax believe this wil give them greater PROFIT.
It is a gamble however compared to the alternative used by all previous ES titles - no sub and paid for new content. If it works for them all credit to them but given how many games have launched in the last 5+ years and not "fulfilled their potential" no one should be under any illusion that this is a gamble on the part of Zenimax. I would prefer them to play safe!
This. So many people on these forums seem to forget that those companies are in this business to make money. They are not a charity that you as customer are supposed to give money to. They have to earn your money.
this and not only that but just like every other MMO keeping in mind this isnt the first big budget AAA MMO to release in the last 5 to 7 years, there have been plenty of others, who also gave in and adopted some form of hybrid model, this wont be the exception unfortunately... just like all of those other games this game will have massive sales hold onto a big portion of the player base for 2 - 4 months and it'll drop off, WHY? and dont jump down my throat here, but unforseen circumstances, as much as you'd like to think ZOS is infallible they arent, post launch features they want to implement take time to develop and test, while thats happening people are finding game breaking and non game breaking bugs a long the way, where development team either needs to get reassigned to address issues or they leave the bugs happening which might turn people off that they arent planning on fixing a product they considered to be "launch" worthy, if they do assign people to fixing the problems it's hard to say how many man hours / people it's gonna take to make workarounds or fix the core of the problem. then post launch features get pushed back, meanwhile the majority of the base is flying through adventure zones etc... starting to get wrestless, new post launch features get launched but now the development on new content for people already ahead is pushed back and people get bored, start leaving, 8 months down the track they're "looking into hybrid models" and you can only hope they adopt a system like what Rift has.
all in all, this wont be the exception, it's not the first big budget AAA mmo to ship in the last 5 - 8 years, it has very high expectations from the playerbase, and it's a long fall down when those expectations arent met, development teams are only human, this game still has a lot of problems / bugs that need addressing while they're trying to polish it up for launch in 3 weeks and only time will really tell.
it comes down to a matter of them giving in an adopting the model earlier on.. or holding out for as long as possible out of pride. but it will happen.