The further issue is that it has a sub fee to begin with. If all those items start to indeed get added bit by bit, why isn't the game B2P or F2P with a Freemium option. This is how i feel ESO should have launch with.
To me, the really annoying part is that many other devs aren't trying to pull this stuff. SE apologized for FF and remade the game from scratch, with no CS. Carbine's WS will not have it, in addition to a CREED system to buy game time (not effective for everyone, but still a nice touch).
One may not like those games, but they atleast are there. Plus, B2P games like GW2 and TSW have pretty fair cash shops last i checked them.
TSW started out as P2P with the costume shop on day 1. Its only because the game was a massive flopped that they went B2P.
True and i hated that in TSW when it launched. I just used it has an example because it's the along B2P mmo along with GW2, and imo, are the best themeparks. Sorry it wasn't the best example.
I guess one good thing about selling the mount in the cash shop is that it will allow the game to stay sub-based longer as they will not be running into emergency "initiate operation F2P to save our butts" mode as soon if the game starts to lose subs.
And the longer you can keep away F2P players the better. If you take offense to that, good, you should - you are the reason we even have cash shops in MMO's because someone has to pay for you to play.
This is the main reason I feel my time in MMO's may be coming to an end. If this is a trend it's one I have no desire to be apart of.
Now companies think it is ok to charge me a sub and still gate in game material ( I don't care if you call it fluff ) behind the cash shop to try to suck their players dry.
For me it's either one way or the other. Don't charge me box + sub and then cash shop
I will gladly pay a sub
I will play a f2p if it is good enough and depending the material that is locked up
I will not do both.
Cash shops were forged in the pits of hell, created by Satan himself.
It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
people crack me up. always gotta have something to rage about. this is just the flavor of the week issue to complain about, a horse lol
Nah it's more like people are not stupid and can see the bigger picure
And the bigger picture is, you don't have to buy it.
Absolutely.
Pre-Order cancelled along with four rl friends.
All over a horse? haha that's pretty pathetic.
No, cancelled because I know that in a very short space of time all content additions will be driven through the cash shop, because the cash shop will reduce the amount of PvE quest content that gets added to the game and because the 180 on the pre launch commitment that this game would have NO cash shop selling in game items is just the latest pre launch commiment to be revealed as a marketing con.
Can i have a lend of your crystal ball once you've finished?
Originally posted by nerovipus32 This thread is the reason i solo in mmo's. I don't want to know anyone who gets upset because a game is selling a horse in their store. Stay away from me you bunch of freaks.
And when it's no longer just a horse but every single new item/addition to the game that goes straight in to the cash shop?
Playing it down as if this is the end achieves nothing, we all know this is just the beginning.
Name one game where this is the case. Oh, you can't. Yeah. kthxbai
Originally posted by DataEcho Originally posted by baphametpeople crack me up. always gotta have something to rage about. this is just the flavor of the week issue to complain about, a horse lol
Nah it's more like people are not stupid and can see the bigger picure
no, they are fickle and it makes me laugh. you guys can all rage about "the bigger picture", which really means you are raging about things that have not yet happened and may not ever happen.
that kind of paranoia over something so trivial like gaming is really troubling to me.
my question to those people is, why don't you just not play and save yourself the emotional hardship that this game apparently gives you?
next week there will no doubt be something new to rage about, rinse and repeat.
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
Can i have a lend of your crystal ball once you've finished?
There is no need for a crystal ball ... just a little common sense... I believe he is right.
Not trying to be negative towards you, however you sound like one of the many people on the SWTOR forums who argued the same thing and guess what happened... just what the guy described.
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
It didn't look like he was telling people how to spend their money to me. What I saw was calling out stupid. Nothing wrong with that. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
A quick check of these people's history will reveal you a great secret:they never ever planned to buy it
Originally posted by nerovipus32 This thread is the reason i solo in mmo's. I don't want to know anyone who gets upset because a game is selling a horse in their store. Stay away from me you bunch of freaks.
And when it's no longer just a horse but every single new item/addition to the game that goes straight in to the cash shop?
Playing it down as if this is the end achieves nothing, we all know this is just the beginning.
Name one game where this is the case. Oh, you can't. Yeah. kthxbai
Other games don't charge a box price plus a sub fee every month upfront. Those that do (ARR and WS), don't have them.
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
First of all I will get on my soap box whenever I choose to. Secondly I really don't care
There is a reason for the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted"
Originally posted by nerovipus32 This thread is the reason i solo in mmo's. I don't want to know anyone who gets upset because a game is selling a horse in their store. Stay away from me you bunch of freaks.
And when it's no longer just a horse but every single new item/addition to the game that goes straight in to the cash shop?
Playing it down as if this is the end achieves nothing, we all know this is just the beginning.
Name one game where this is the case. Oh, you can't. Yeah. kthxbai
Other games don't charge a box price plus a sub fee every month upfront. Those that do (ARR and WS), don't have them.
World of Warcraft? EVE sold cosmetics, right? Please, if you want to hate on TESO, please do, but find something a bit less silly than this
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
First of all I will get on my soap box whenever I choose to. Secondly I really don't care
There is a reason for the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted"
If you didn't care you wouldn't be here whining about it. So you do obviously care.
Originally posted by dirtyd77 It will not matter some people just don't care that they are getting ripped off. For what ever reason they are willing to let companies bend them over with no lube.....
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
A quick check of these people's history will reveal you a great secret:they never ever planned to buy it
A quick check of my history would show you that I plan on playing the game.
I don't like ESO so I won't be playing it, but this bothers me because I don't want any kind of momentum shifting towards this kind of business model. I really only want two options. 1. Buy to Play or 2. Sub to play - micro transactions all together could disappear and I would be happy.
This horse in the cash shop (side note... Box price and sub fee and cash shop?) at any rate this horse, did everyone that pre ordered already know about this? Or did this just come out today as a surprise?
This really could be considered pay to win in some regards. Have a mount is an advantage as one become established in an mmorpg.
The following isn't directly related to ESO just a rehashing of the robbery imposed onto gamers.
Part of the reason I hate f2p is because I don't like surprises that are tempting me to dip into my pocket book. These video game companies really got you by the balls, you can be so addicted and dedicated to their game, and at any given moment they add a watchamagadget that you can't live without for $20.
We've also got games releasing with half the content they should have because the other half was held back for a $15 DLC
Excellent post.
It is a little concerning how willing people are to part with more and more money over games they are excited over.
I mean, I'm not poor - the difference between a $60 and an $80 isn't much to me. But I also don't want it to become acceptable for the situation you described. TESO makes out like a bandit here, using a F2P Cash Shop format in a P2P Subscription model... it's just a bad thing to see get momentum.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think sub games are going to be $15 forever. B2P games make their money off of the cash shops, so not sure how your theory would work here.
Its either they hike up that price for a sub or sell crap in a cash shop to make other profits. Imagine the first game that will come out with a $20/month sub fee or even $25 and the shit storm it will cause, I can't wait. I would be happy to see the cash shops die also but the majority seem to think it is a great idea. Spending an extra $20 on a CE I will already have a horse so I don't care if they put it in the cash shop for others to pick up.
That $20 Horse .... is an arm twister for those that did not order the CE ... it's downright disrespectful and it's a slap in the face to those that support ESO and went ahead and pre ordered it.
With respect to sub fees....
They won't come out with $20 sub fees. The sub fees they have been enjoying -- $15/month, is way overkill right now as it is. They can only charge that amount because that is what we have been cultured to accept. Server costs have gone down and as a result, more of the $15/month they charge has been profit. So yes there would be an uprising if a sub fee jumped to $20. That is highly unlikely, people already gripe enough about $15. Keep in mind this is the mmorpg genre as well and you need a populated game in an mmorpg. (ESO is trying to change that as well by having so much solo content... I'll save that argument for another day)
F2p is about temptation and it's a mind game to get people to change their spending behaviors. With cash shops, one has many many temptations to sift through, while with a sub fee, one only has to make one decision, to sub or not to sub. F2p cash shops prey on the weak who fall into temptation. Much like Casino's take advantage of compulsive gamblers, f2p cash shops take advantage of compulsive cash shop spenders.
Casino's have to be accountable - someday in the future so will these f2p cash shop games. Did anyone see the guy out in Las Vegas that lost $400,000 and turned around and took the Casino to court because he said he was drunk and the Casino kept giving him drinks? He is probably going to win if he has not won already, and get his money back. There are laws (U.S.) in place that make companies accountable.
I think we are a ways away from any kind of political jurisdiction with respect to the pay models in the video game industry, first it will need proven that gaming is and addiction (parts of the world already have that as a medical condition)
Ready for my big conspiracy theory......... Part of me thinks that law makers are already keen on the addiction, have contacted game developers, and demanded they remove the "addictiveness" from their games. This would explain the great dumbification of video games that has occurred over the past 4 years and why there hasn't been a game since WoW that has moved people quite like WoW did for a span of 6 years. When WoW took off into the mainstream, people were staying at home with mom and dad, dropping out of school, living off welfare, neglecting their kids, neglecting personal health, depression spiked, and there was just a total loss of control for anything except WoW. Gamers were not the only ones aware of that, for every gamer, there are two parents and multiple IRL friends that experienced the negative behavioral change of that addict.
Addiction may be being dealt with currently, but now we have a new enemy and that is f2p. Though "addictiveness is not as prevalent, people still become addicted. With the f2p cash shops and an addicted person, how far will they go? I think you can make the comparison to a "crack addict" who runs rampart through neighborhoods stealing this or that for money so they can buy crack. That's what our f2p addicts do look like and it will continue to grow as f2p is more widely embraced.
So ESO about that $20 horse..... Why the arm twisting? Why the greed? Why the slap is the face, disrespect, lack of ethics, and accountability to police thyself?
I think I can answer that, but I will get flamed to all hell and back if I say why on these forums, I think enough people know why anyhow.
If you didn't care you wouldn't be here whining about it. So you do obviously care.
Your right I guess I do care.... however I don't care about a "horse" What I care about is a genre I enjoy that is being ruined by a bunch morons who enjoy being ripped off.
Can i have a lend of your crystal ball once you've finished?
There is no need for a crystal ball ... just a little common sense... I believe he is right.
Not trying to be negative towards you, however you sound like one of the many people on the SWTOR forums who argued the same thing and guess what happened... just what the guy described.
Yes it did.
Like I said, anyone who has any doubt as to how this will pan out, go check out SWTORs content release/patch notes for the last 18 months. Just look at how many content patches and updates are actually just cash shop updates to add a new mount or companion or armour or weapons with actual content being relegated to dailies.
The second they said they were putting a cash shop in the game for game features I could tell that it was really going into the game so they can move to B2P as soon as they start bleeding subs.
This game will be B2P in under 2 years just like TSW was. This move just confirms it for me.
Comments
And the bigger picture is, you don't have to buy it.
True and i hated that in TSW when it launched. I just used it has an example because it's the along B2P mmo along with GW2, and imo, are the best themeparks. Sorry it wasn't the best example.
But most of my other points still stand.
I guess one good thing about selling the mount in the cash shop is that it will allow the game to stay sub-based longer as they will not be running into emergency "initiate operation F2P to save our butts" mode as soon if the game starts to lose subs.
And the longer you can keep away F2P players the better. If you take offense to that, good, you should - you are the reason we even have cash shops in MMO's because someone has to pay for you to play.
All over a horse? haha that's pretty pathetic.
This is the main reason I feel my time in MMO's may be coming to an end. If this is a trend it's one I have no desire to be apart of.
Now companies think it is ok to charge me a sub and still gate in game material ( I don't care if you call it fluff ) behind the cash shop to try to suck their players dry.
For me it's either one way or the other. Don't charge me box + sub and then cash shop
I will gladly pay a sub
I will play a f2p if it is good enough and depending the material that is locked up
I will not do both.
Cash shops were forged in the pits of hell, created by Satan himself.
See you at launch.
Can i have a lend of your crystal ball once you've finished?
Name one game where this is the case. Oh, you can't. Yeah. kthxbai
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Nah it's more like people are not stupid and can see the bigger picure
no, they are fickle and it makes me laugh. you guys can all rage about "the bigger picture", which really means you are raging about things that have not yet happened and may not ever happen.
that kind of paranoia over something so trivial like gaming is really troubling to me.
my question to those people is, why don't you just not play and save yourself the emotional hardship that this game apparently gives you?
next week there will no doubt be something new to rage about, rinse and repeat.
Why do you care what others do with their money? If you don't like it then don't buy the product but don't get on your soap box and tell people they are wrong for wanting something.
There is no need for a crystal ball ... just a little common sense... I believe he is right.
Not trying to be negative towards you, however you sound like one of the many people on the SWTOR forums who argued the same thing and guess what happened... just what the guy described.
It didn't look like he was telling people how to spend their money to me. What I saw was calling out stupid. Nothing wrong with that. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
A quick check of these people's history will reveal you a great secret:they never ever planned to buy it
Other games don't charge a box price plus a sub fee every month upfront. Those that do (ARR and WS), don't have them.
$60 to buy game
$225 / year to play
$$ for a mount?
Yeah, bye.
First of all I will get on my soap box whenever I choose to. Secondly I really don't care
There is a reason for the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted"
World of Warcraft? EVE sold cosmetics, right? Please, if you want to hate on TESO, please do, but find something a bit less silly than this
If you didn't care you wouldn't be here whining about it. So you do obviously care.
A quick check of my history would show you that I plan on playing the game.
That $20 Horse .... is an arm twister for those that did not order the CE ... it's downright disrespectful and it's a slap in the face to those that support ESO and went ahead and pre ordered it.
With respect to sub fees....
They won't come out with $20 sub fees. The sub fees they have been enjoying -- $15/month, is way overkill right now as it is. They can only charge that amount because that is what we have been cultured to accept. Server costs have gone down and as a result, more of the $15/month they charge has been profit. So yes there would be an uprising if a sub fee jumped to $20. That is highly unlikely, people already gripe enough about $15. Keep in mind this is the mmorpg genre as well and you need a populated game in an mmorpg. (ESO is trying to change that as well by having so much solo content... I'll save that argument for another day)
F2p is about temptation and it's a mind game to get people to change their spending behaviors. With cash shops, one has many many temptations to sift through, while with a sub fee, one only has to make one decision, to sub or not to sub. F2p cash shops prey on the weak who fall into temptation. Much like Casino's take advantage of compulsive gamblers, f2p cash shops take advantage of compulsive cash shop spenders.
Casino's have to be accountable - someday in the future so will these f2p cash shop games. Did anyone see the guy out in Las Vegas that lost $400,000 and turned around and took the Casino to court because he said he was drunk and the Casino kept giving him drinks? He is probably going to win if he has not won already, and get his money back. There are laws (U.S.) in place that make companies accountable.
I think we are a ways away from any kind of political jurisdiction with respect to the pay models in the video game industry, first it will need proven that gaming is and addiction (parts of the world already have that as a medical condition)
Ready for my big conspiracy theory......... Part of me thinks that law makers are already keen on the addiction, have contacted game developers, and demanded they remove the "addictiveness" from their games. This would explain the great dumbification of video games that has occurred over the past 4 years and why there hasn't been a game since WoW that has moved people quite like WoW did for a span of 6 years. When WoW took off into the mainstream, people were staying at home with mom and dad, dropping out of school, living off welfare, neglecting their kids, neglecting personal health, depression spiked, and there was just a total loss of control for anything except WoW. Gamers were not the only ones aware of that, for every gamer, there are two parents and multiple IRL friends that experienced the negative behavioral change of that addict.
Addiction may be being dealt with currently, but now we have a new enemy and that is f2p. Though "addictiveness is not as prevalent, people still become addicted. With the f2p cash shops and an addicted person, how far will they go? I think you can make the comparison to a "crack addict" who runs rampart through neighborhoods stealing this or that for money so they can buy crack. That's what our f2p addicts do look like and it will continue to grow as f2p is more widely embraced.
So ESO about that $20 horse..... Why the arm twisting? Why the greed? Why the slap is the face, disrespect, lack of ethics, and accountability to police thyself?
I think I can answer that, but I will get flamed to all hell and back if I say why on these forums, I think enough people know why anyhow.
Your right I guess I do care.... however I don't care about a "horse" What I care about is a genre I enjoy that is being ruined by a bunch morons who enjoy being ripped off.
SWTOR is run by EA so why are you even surprised?
The second they said they were putting a cash shop in the game for game features I could tell that it was really going into the game so they can move to B2P as soon as they start bleeding subs.
This game will be B2P in under 2 years just like TSW was. This move just confirms it for me.