I cant believe the op is complaining about quests being tied to story. So asinine.
OP' there are plenty of free korean grinders f2p's out there. Their quests are not tied to story and you can grind 1000 mobs for xp all day.
First that was completely unnecessary. Second I want to do the quest because I enjoy the story. I feel like the quest and story suffer because they are tied directly to the grind. Every mmo has a grind. Not sure how you misunderstood that.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by keithianOriginally posted by DMKano10000% agreement with OP - if they made killing mobs a viable way of gaining XP - I'd be SO happy.Right now ESO PvE is something I have to force myself to do, I don't like it - I hate quest grinding but there is NO other efficient choice.It sucks frankly.
See allacore's response. You don't have to pay a dime for most of the Asian Free Grindfests that will give you exactly what you want. We're talking about ESO here - bringing up other games is pointless./back on topicDont change the subject because my point was VERY valid.Simple : If you want to grind mobs and not care about story, go play a f2p korean grinder. Zenimax WILL NOT change the way they did things so the 1% can have their way. People, this tries to prevent "power leveling".Have you ever played with a power leveler? My god they are B - Holes.Do you work for Zenimax? How are you 100% sure they won't change it if enough people complain - look how they change starter islands.Your point is NOT vaild - nothing is set in stone - this COULD be changed.Who's complaining? You and maybe 3 other people here?Zenimax should change their game for 4 out of millions of people?I THINK NOTThe entire playerbase of ESO is on this thread?
Wow - didn't realize that
/facepalm
Also this is just discussion - I submitted feedback to them already via proper channels, obviously not this forum.
take the 4 people here and go to every forum, feed, whatever and (we will round to 10 people) get every one who says they want it changed and it still wont be a big enough dent.
And like the dude said : "Power Levelers or Locusts" are the VERY last thing on their minds.
I remember you complaining that Neverwinter had you leveling to fast. But ESO is too slow?
I AM a powerleveler - I powerlevel in every game I've ever played since 1998. My entire guild is like this - we play games in most efficient way to get to end game, it's one way of playing - it's not the only way.
I understand that not everyone plays like this nor agrees with this - it's fine.
It's my playstyle - it's what I like - if you want to judge me for it, and that make you feel better - awesome.
I don't look down on players who like to take it slow and quest - if that's what folks love - so be it - awesome for them.
Many games support all different types of players and playstyles - ESO should do the same.
NO game really supports the "power leveler:. Not for the first six months to a year anyway.
You're actually an MMO dev's ( themepark especially) worst nightmare. You don't do the content that's there, you then get to endgame where there's no-one to play with but your guild. In turn you come to forums saying "there's nothing to do" I know because the guild I've been in since 03 is the same exact way. THis mentality makes up a large part of those who are of the early MMO generation. At least the ones who forgot why it was that way to begin with. ( there was hardly any content to do until what is now called "endgame"..
This playstyle is completely contradictory to themepark design practices. In themeparks all pre launch resource is put into creating 100's of hours of story related content, that leads you to one of only a few playstyles to partake in at "endgame. Mostly raiding or PVP.
Problem is the latter is typically only a shell at launch of any given themepark game. At least here in ESO's case there's some focus on a PVP endgame in place.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Ides385 Originally posted by Allacore69 ... I cant believe the op is complaining about quests being tied to story. So asinine. OP' there are plenty of free korean grinders f2p's out there. Their quests are not tied to story and you can grind 1000 mobs for xp all day.
First that was completely unnecessary. Second I want to do the quest because I enjoy the story.I feel like the quest and story suffer because they are tied to the grind. Every mmo has a grind. Not sure how you misunderstood that.
How does story feel like a grind? You would rather just grind mobs and have no incentive to do the story, just for story? No, I reread your post to see if I was in fact mistaken. I was not. What is the point of out leveling quests? Killing that epic level 10 boss at level 50. Seems boring and pointless. EXAMPLE : A world hero, the strongest most brave hero ever, instead of using his skills to full potential, he goes out to steal a bottle of White Gold Tower(a level 1 quest). Why not fight a level 50 epic boss and put your skills to use? Why go do lower level quests where all the low level new players are and steal their kills and objectives? One hit all the bosses for them so they feel frustrated and give up because of people like you.
Are you never happy?
They give you what you want and you complain, they don't give you what you want and you complain.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DMKanoOriginally posted by keithianOriginally posted by DMKano10000% agreement with OP - if they made killing mobs a viable way of gaining XP - I'd be SO happy.Right now ESO PvE is something I have to force myself to do, I don't like it - I hate quest grinding but there is NO other efficient choice.It sucks frankly.
See allacore's response. You don't have to pay a dime for most of the Asian Free Grindfests that will give you exactly what you want. We're talking about ESO here - bringing up other games is pointless./back on topicDont change the subject because my point was VERY valid.Simple : If you want to grind mobs and not care about story, go play a f2p korean grinder. Zenimax WILL NOT change the way they did things so the 1% can have their way. People, this tries to prevent "power leveling".Have you ever played with a power leveler? My god they are B - Holes.Do you work for Zenimax? How are you 100% sure they won't change it if enough people complain - look how they change starter islands.Your point is NOT vaild - nothing is set in stone - this COULD be changed.Who's complaining? You and maybe 3 other people here?Zenimax should change their game for 4 out of millions of people?I THINK NOTThe entire playerbase of ESO is on this thread? Wow - didn't realize that/facepalmAlso this is just discussion - I submitted feedback to them already via proper channels, obviously not this forum.take the 4 people here and go to every forum, feed, whatever and (we will round to 10 people) get every one who says they want it changed and it still wont be a big enough dent.And like the dude said : "Power Levelers or Locusts" are the VERY last thing on their minds.I remember you complaining that Neverwinter had you leveling to fast. But ESO is too slow?1. Anything I said about another game has no relevance to ESO or this discussion
2. ESO leveling is not too slow - it's lacking options - as in YOU MUST QUEST - that is the problem
I dislike questing - it's not something I enjoy in ANY game, simply asking for alternate to quest grinding.
go play a game that has no questing then! You knew this game had questing in it back when we heard this was a thing. Your surprised? HOW?!?!
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by DMKanoI AM a powerleveler - I powerlevel in every game I've ever played since 1998. My entire guild is like this - we play games in most efficient way to get to end game, it's one way of playing - it's not the only way.I understand that not everyone plays like this nor agrees with this - it's fine.It's my playstyle - it's what I like - if you want to judge me for it, and that make you feel better - awesome. I don't look down on players who like to take it slow and quest - if that's what folks love - so be it - awesome for them. Many games support all different types of players and playstyles - ESO should do the same.
NO game really supports the "power leveler:. Not for the first six months to a year anyway.
You're actually an MMO dev's ( themepark especially) worst nightmare. You don't do the content that's there, you then get to endgame where there's no-one to play with but your guild. In turn you come to forums saying "there's nothing to do" I know because the guild I've been in since 03 is the same exact way. THis mentality makes up a large part of those who are of the early MMO generation. At least the ones who forgot why it was that way to begin with. ( there was hardly any content to do until what is now called "endgame"..
Originally posted by Man_of_LeisureI also hate the questing. To me, reading an npcs dialogue and fulfilling mundane requests is not a quest, its a task. If i wanted tasks I'd ask my boss for extra work.In the last beta weekend I spent a decent chunk of time wandering around trying to find high level critters to kill for better xp. I was killing things 4+ levels higher and the xp was still terrible despite the fact that one strong attack from these enemies would kill me if not blocked! Yet 2 shotting a few quest mobs gets me a level, wtf? What happened to risk vs reward?I suppose the fix is just get to level 10, enter cyordil and level by killing others, but until that point I had to abandon my exploration and go back to running tasks.
It's just the way they have set up player progression. The big rewards are for quest completion and exploration as opposed to mob kills. They just have the values set at a different ratio than we are used to
No big rewards are for quest completion and quest completion alone. Which is understandable, as there is no way I would bother with their stale quests if it wasn't heavily incentivized.
you really hate this game dont you reeereee?
All your posts are VERY negative about the game, but you claim you are playing come early access.
Why all the hate?
So far you hate questing, combat, graphics, etc.
Yeah....I checked all your other posts.
So, I figure your a troll or a troll claiming to be playing the game and is "serious" about it when somebody calls you out.
I'm just confused on why you hate it so much, but can't stop bringing everybody else down with you.
Please explain what you do like about the game so your points ARE taken SERIOUSLY. (cant be 100% negative about a game that your "going to play")
Also, how are the quests bland? Each one I did was unique and very fun and amusing in their own way.
I hated in LOTRO where you pick up so many quests that you end up outleveling half the ones you have yet to do.
BTW nobody complained when SWTOR, DCUO, FFXIV ARR, etc. had level progression through quests.
THIS IS NOT NEW. MMO's have been doing this for a while now. ESO just followed the trend.
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.
A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's
I don't recall criticizing the graphics only the character model which are a subset of the graphics.
I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job.
No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
Originally posted by Man_of_LeisureI also hate the questing. To me, reading an npcs dialogue and fulfilling mundane requests is not a quest, its a task. If i wanted tasks I'd ask my boss for extra work.In the last beta weekend I spent a decent chunk of time wandering around trying to find high level critters to kill for better xp. I was killing things 4+ levels higher and the xp was still terrible despite the fact that one strong attack from these enemies would kill me if not blocked! Yet 2 shotting a few quest mobs gets me a level, wtf? What happened to risk vs reward?I suppose the fix is just get to level 10, enter cyordil and level by killing others, but until that point I had to abandon my exploration and go back to running tasks.
It's just the way they have set up player progression. The big rewards are for quest completion and exploration as opposed to mob kills. They just have the values set at a different ratio than we are used to
No big rewards are for quest completion and quest completion alone. Which is understandable, as there is no way I would bother with their stale quests if it wasn't heavily incentivized.
you really hate this game dont you reeereee?All your posts are VERY negative about the game, but you claim you are playing come early access. Why all the hate? So far you hate questing, combat, graphics, etc. Yeah....I checked all your other posts.So, I figure your a troll or a troll claiming to be playing the game and is "serious" about it when somebody calls you out.I'm just confused on why you hate it so much, but can't stop bringing everybody else down with you.Please explain what you do like about the game so your points ARE taken SERIOUSLY. (cant be 100% negative about a game that your "going to play")Also, how are the quests bland? Each one I did was unique and very fun and amusing in their own way.I hated in LOTRO where you pick up so many quests that you end up outleveling half the ones you have yet to do.BTW nobody complained when SWTOR, DCUO, FFXIV ARR, etc. had level progression through quests. THIS IS NOT NEW. MMO's have been doing this for a while now. ESO just followed the trend.
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.
A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's
I don't recall criticizing the graphics only the character model which are a subset of the graphics.
I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job.
No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
FF XIV ARR, SWTOR, DCUO, etc. Take your pick. There are tons.
Also in eso, why cant you grind Fungal Grotto(dungeon)? I got 2 levels doing it 3 times(fun too). Ancheres, PvP, dark fissures, etc. Did you really have that much trouble leveling?
Originally posted by Man_of_LeisureI also hate the questing. To me, reading an npcs dialogue and fulfilling mundane requests is not a quest, its a task. If i wanted tasks I'd ask my boss for extra work.In the last beta weekend I spent a decent chunk of time wandering around trying to find high level critters to kill for better xp. I was killing things 4+ levels higher and the xp was still terrible despite the fact that one strong attack from these enemies would kill me if not blocked! Yet 2 shotting a few quest mobs gets me a level, wtf? What happened to risk vs reward?I suppose the fix is just get to level 10, enter cyordil and level by killing others, but until that point I had to abandon my exploration and go back to running tasks.
It's just the way they have set up player progression. The big rewards are for quest completion and exploration as opposed to mob kills. They just have the values set at a different ratio than we are used to
No big rewards are for quest completion and quest completion alone. Which is understandable, as there is no way I would bother with their stale quests if it wasn't heavily incentivized.
you really hate this game dont you reeereee?All your posts are VERY negative about the game, but you claim you are playing come early access. Why all the hate? So far you hate questing, combat, graphics, etc. Yeah....I checked all your other posts.So, I figure your a troll or a troll claiming to be playing the game and is "serious" about it when somebody calls you out.I'm just confused on why you hate it so much, but can't stop bringing everybody else down with you.Please explain what you do like about the game so your points ARE taken SERIOUSLY. (cant be 100% negative about a game that your "going to play")Also, how are the quests bland? Each one I did was unique and very fun and amusing in their own way.I hated in LOTRO where you pick up so many quests that you end up outleveling half the ones you have yet to do.BTW nobody complained when SWTOR, DCUO, FFXIV ARR, etc. had level progression through quests. THIS IS NOT NEW. MMO's have been doing this for a while now. ESO just followed the trend.
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.
A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's
I don't recall criticizing the graphics only the character model which are a subset of the graphics.
I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job.
No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
FF XIV ARR, SWTOR, DCUO, etc. Take your pick. There are tons.
Also in eso, why cant you grind Fungal Grotto(dungeon)? I got 2 levels doing it 3 times(fun too). Ancheres, PvP, dark fissures, etc. Did you really have that much trouble leveling?
Did you even play any of these games?
SWTOR you can level through Dungeons and PvP without touching a quest after level 10.
In FFXIV ARR events level you faster than quests, quests are largely optional except to get into dungeons.
Edit: Trouble leveling In the PvP zone? Yeah didn't make a tenth of the exp I did questing.
Originally posted by Man_of_LeisureI also hate the questing. To me, reading an npcs dialogue and fulfilling mundane requests is not a quest, its a task. If i wanted tasks I'd ask my boss for extra work.In the last beta weekend I spent a decent chunk of time wandering around trying to find high level critters to kill for better xp. I was killing things 4+ levels higher and the xp was still terrible despite the fact that one strong attack from these enemies would kill me if not blocked! Yet 2 shotting a few quest mobs gets me a level, wtf? What happened to risk vs reward?I suppose the fix is just get to level 10, enter cyordil and level by killing others, but until that point I had to abandon my exploration and go back to running tasks.
It's just the way they have set up player progression. The big rewards are for quest completion and exploration as opposed to mob kills. They just have the values set at a different ratio than we are used to
No big rewards are for quest completion and quest completion alone. Which is understandable, as there is no way I would bother with their stale quests if it wasn't heavily incentivized.
you really hate this game dont you reeereee?All your posts are VERY negative about the game, but you claim you are playing come early access. Why all the hate? So far you hate questing, combat, graphics, etc. Yeah....I checked all your other posts.So, I figure your a troll or a troll claiming to be playing the game and is "serious" about it when somebody calls you out.I'm just confused on why you hate it so much, but can't stop bringing everybody else down with you.Please explain what you do like about the game so your points ARE taken SERIOUSLY. (cant be 100% negative about a game that your "going to play")Also, how are the quests bland? Each one I did was unique and very fun and amusing in their own way.I hated in LOTRO where you pick up so many quests that you end up outleveling half the ones you have yet to do.BTW nobody complained when SWTOR, DCUO, FFXIV ARR, etc. had level progression through quests. THIS IS NOT NEW. MMO's have been doing this for a while now. ESO just followed the trend.
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's I don't recall criticizing the graphics only the character model which are a subset of the graphics.I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job. No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
FF XIV ARR, SWTOR, DCUO, etc. Take your pick. There are tons. Also in eso, why cant you grind Fungal Grotto(dungeon)? I got 2 levels doing it 3 times(fun too). Ancheres, PvP, dark fissures, etc. Did you really have that much trouble leveling?
Did you even play any of these games?
SWTOR you can level through Dungeons and PvP without touching a quest after level 10.
In FFXIV ARR events level you faster than quests, quests are largely optional except to get into dungeons.
At this point I think you've either never tried to level without questing, are trolling, or simply lack reading comprehension.
My character in FFXIV ARR : Allacore Demonhunter is a level 39 dragoon. DCUO : Nebulan Angel has full tier 2 gear (working on tier 3) SWTOR : I have Alden Banseman level 50.
Try again. If you have an account( im not asking for you account name just look my character up) with FF I can take you to my loadstone page to prove it. Your trolling. AFTER LEVEL 10 IN ESO YOU CAN DO PVP. THERE ARE DUNGEONS TO RE RUN AND PVP AND QUESTING.
NO game really supports the "power leveler:. Not for the first six months to a year anyway.
You're actually an MMO dev's ( themepark especially) worst nightmare. You don't do the content that's there, you then get to endgame where there's no-one to play with but your guild. In turn you come to forums saying "there's nothing to do" I know because the guild I've been in since 03 is the same exact way. THis mentality makes up a large part of those who are of the early MMO generation. At least the ones who forgot why it was that way to begin with. ( there was hardly any content to do until what is now called "endgame"..
This playstyle is completely contradictory to themepark design practices. In themeparks all pre launch resource is put into creating 100's of hours story related content, that leads you to one of a few playstyles to partake in at "endgame. Mostly raiding or PVP.
Problem is the latter is typically only a shell at launch of any given themepark game. At least here in ESO's case there's some focus on a PVP endgame in place.
Which is my only interest in ESO - AvA - once we hit 50 and gear up it's 100% AvA from that point on - no PvE content will be done unless it offers gear upgrades.
I don't see anything wrong with it - I am not playing ESO for PvE - it's just means to an end - I can't say I enjoy it. If ESO had no AvA, I wouldn't play it at all.
Honestly in ESO's case I partly agree with your stance, it's got a big focus on PVP. While they circumvent cutting you off from it during the leveling process, they should realize PVPer's only look at building a character as another layer of the PVP game. (case in point TOA) AT least many anyway. The more hurdles in front of them there, the more they feel they're held back from the part of the game that interests them. SO nerfing PVP XP is definitely not a good move from that perspective.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"If I go through a difficult group dungeon at level 12 several times, then later realize I've went up a 100th of my level, I don't want to do that again. It is a waste of my time and will not progress me for hours of combat. If I want to do the next group dungeons I have to go burn through some quests to get there."
"You would rather just grind mobs and have no incentive to do the story, just for story?"
Although I would be okay with that, because the stories incentive should be the story (and loot). I think that would be a bad decision. There should be a mixture of both.
"Why not fight a level 50 epic boss and put your skills to use?"
Why not have a quest to lead you to an epic 50 lvl boss and realize you need to train to beat him.
"Why go do lower level quests where all the low level new players are and steal their kills and objectives?"
SO you have read and re-read my post and think:
- I don't like quest or stories in games. Though I play the ES series and want to improve the immersion in the quests.
- I am a power leveler because I am concerned with progression.
- I am asinine because you disagree with me.
- And I am a griefer and unhappy because I'm not sure why, but it is exactly how you are acting.
P.S. Ultima Online was my MMO with the most lasting enjoyment. Using skills was the ONLY way to progress in that game.
SWTOR you can level through Dungeons and PvP without touching a quest after level 10.
In FFXIV ARR events level you faster than quests, quests are largely optional except to get into dungeons.
Edit: Trouble leveling In the PvP zone? Yeah didn't make a tenth of the exp I did questing.
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Power leveling is exactly what they don't want, and the recent nerf to group exp was because of power levelers. So trying to appeal to making "your playstyle" (being powerleveling) viable is not happening.
Originally posted by Ides385 "How does story feel like a grind?"One example from the original post:"If I go through a difficult group dungeon at level 12 several times, then later realize I've went up a 100th of my level, I don't want to do that again. It is a waste of my time and will not progress me for hours of combat. If I want to do the next group dungeons I have to go burn through some quests to get there." "You would rather just grind mobs and have no incentive to do the story, just for story?"Although I would be okay with that, because the stories incentive should be the story (and loot). I think that would be a bad decision. There should be a mixture of both. "Why not fight a level 50 epic boss and put your skills to use?"Why not have a quest to lead you to an epic 50 lvl boss and realize you need to train to beat him. "Why go do lower level quests where all the low level new players are and steal their kills and objectives?"SO you have read and re-read my post and think:- I don't like quest or stories in games. Though I play the ES series and want to improve the immersion in the quests.- I am a power leveler because I am concerned with progression.- I am asinine because you disagree with me.- And I am a griefer and unhappy because I'm not sure why, but it is exactly how you are acting.
The 'topic' is asinine.
1 - you know as well as I do that is not how it works. If you ran Fungal Grotto you would know.
2 - Agree it should be a mix of both.
3 - I'm sure in a "quest heavy" game such as this, that they will have a quest to lead you to it. <-------- You really didnt make much sense with your question.
4 - .................. i'm still kinda' waiting on the point of your rant.....
I can tell your no fan of the series. All the offline games made leveling through questing and exploration very heavy in the game. Yes, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.
After level 10 in Skyrim, go try to grind. IT SUCKS!!!
Wanna know how I know? I'm alt tabbing back and forth from Skyrim to here to post lol.
Please stop trolling. Or at least have good points.
YOUR ONLY GOOD POINT : More leveling options.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp.
I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
It's like people are whining for no reason because they don't know how the game works.
I agree, I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to games. If someone doesn't love quests as much as I do and wants to grind like old school games, whats it going to hurt? I say let them play the game they want to play for as long as they want to play it that way, its sub money that would not otherwise go intot he coffers of the game I do like.
the more freedom people have, and paths to end game, the more diverse the game becomes and more enjoyable to a wider audience. I'm all for it.
At this point there isn't much hope in changing the basic structure of the game. It's a single player RPG with some PVP added on at the end. If people want to pay a box fee + sub for that, then so be it. Just have to find a game that fits your playstyle, even if they are slowly dwindling.
I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XP
If a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:
1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.
2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.
3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.
4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.
5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.
6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)
Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.
IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.
As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind.
Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Originally posted by Palazious I have to agree with the OP on this one. I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XP If a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of: 1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me) Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish. As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Originally posted by Jimmydean At this point there isn't much hope in changing the basic structure of the game. It's a single player RPG with some PVP added on at the end. If people want to pay a box fee + sub for that, then so be it. Just have to find a game that fits your playstyle, even if they are slowly dwindling.
That's just it, is that there are pleanty of games that fit their playstyles. The fact is, none of them are as high quality as ESO is going to be, so that's why there is so much voice going into making it more group friendly. The game is great, it just needs to be fixed to all the social norms of friend/group play, I'm sure they can do this after launch within the first few months of the game.
I agree, I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to games. If someone doesn't love quests as much as I do and wants to grind like old school games, whats it going to hurt? I say let them play the game they want to play for as long as they want to play it that way, its sub money that would not otherwise go intot he coffers of the game I do like.
the more freedom people have, and paths to end game, the more diverse the game becomes and more enjoyable to a wider audience. I'm all for it.
There's choice and there's contradiction, choice can be great but if choice undermines your product, that's something else entirely. I don't think it's the PVP only types they're worried about in this regard, as that's their main endgame choice right now. However the core playstyle of the game ( those who dabble in both) but prefer PVE would outlevel their main avenue to keep those people, the questing.
IF there's any issue of player preference that ties directly into payment model/profit/etc.. it's this. It's a much deeper issue than many let on.
It's nice to envision freedom and choice, it's often hard to consider the pitfalls that come with them
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Palazious I have to agree with the OP on this one.
I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XP
If a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:
1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.
2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.
3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.
4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.
5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.
6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)
Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.
IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.
As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind.
Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS. Please re read his post.
Comments
First that was completely unnecessary. Second I want to do the quest because I enjoy the story. I feel like the quest and story suffer because they are tied directly to the grind. Every mmo has a grind. Not sure how you misunderstood that.
We're talking about ESO here - bringing up other games is pointless. /back on topic
Dont change the subject because my point was VERY valid. Simple : If you want to grind mobs and not care about story, go play a f2p korean grinder. Zenimax WILL NOT change the way they did things so the 1% can have their way. People, this tries to prevent "power leveling". Have you ever played with a power leveler? My god they are B - Holes.
Do you work for Zenimax? How are you 100% sure they won't change it if enough people complain - look how they change starter islands. Your point is NOT vaild - nothing is set in stone - this COULD be changed.
Who's complaining? You and maybe 3 other people here? Zenimax should change their game for 4 out of millions of people? I THINK NOT
The entire playerbase of ESO is on this thread?
Wow - didn't realize that
/facepalm
Also this is just discussion - I submitted feedback to them already via proper channels, obviously not this forum.
take the 4 people here and go to every forum, feed, whatever and (we will round to 10 people) get every one who says they want it changed and it still wont be a big enough dent.
And like the dude said : "Power Levelers or Locusts" are the VERY last thing on their minds.
I remember you complaining that Neverwinter had you leveling to fast. But ESO is too slow?
NO game really supports the "power leveler:. Not for the first six months to a year anyway.
You're actually an MMO dev's ( themepark especially) worst nightmare. You don't do the content that's there, you then get to endgame where there's no-one to play with but your guild. In turn you come to forums saying "there's nothing to do" I know because the guild I've been in since 03 is the same exact way. THis mentality makes up a large part of those who are of the early MMO generation. At least the ones who forgot why it was that way to begin with. ( there was hardly any content to do until what is now called "endgame"..
This playstyle is completely contradictory to themepark design practices. In themeparks all pre launch resource is put into creating 100's of hours of story related content, that leads you to one of only a few playstyles to partake in at "endgame. Mostly raiding or PVP.
Problem is the latter is typically only a shell at launch of any given themepark game. At least here in ESO's case there's some focus on a PVP endgame in place.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First that was completely unnecessary. Second I want to do the quest because I enjoy the story.I feel like the quest and story suffer because they are tied to the grind. Every mmo has a grind. Not sure how you misunderstood that.
How does story feel like a grind? You would rather just grind mobs and have no incentive to do the story, just for story? No, I reread your post to see if I was in fact mistaken. I was not. What is the point of out leveling quests? Killing that epic level 10 boss at level 50. Seems boring and pointless. EXAMPLE : A world hero, the strongest most brave hero ever, instead of using his skills to full potential, he goes out to steal a bottle of White Gold Tower(a level 1 quest). Why not fight a level 50 epic boss and put your skills to use? Why go do lower level quests where all the low level new players are and steal their kills and objectives? One hit all the bosses for them so they feel frustrated and give up because of people like you.
Are you never happy?
They give you what you want and you complain, they don't give you what you want and you complain.
We're talking about ESO here - bringing up other games is pointless. /back on topic
Dont change the subject because my point was VERY valid. Simple : If you want to grind mobs and not care about story, go play a f2p korean grinder. Zenimax WILL NOT change the way they did things so the 1% can have their way. People, this tries to prevent "power leveling". Have you ever played with a power leveler? My god they are B - Holes.
Do you work for Zenimax? How are you 100% sure they won't change it if enough people complain - look how they change starter islands. Your point is NOT vaild - nothing is set in stone - this COULD be changed.
Who's complaining? You and maybe 3 other people here? Zenimax should change their game for 4 out of millions of people? I THINK NOT
The entire playerbase of ESO is on this thread? Wow - didn't realize that /facepalm Also this is just discussion - I submitted feedback to them already via proper channels, obviously not this forum.
take the 4 people here and go to every forum, feed, whatever and (we will round to 10 people) get every one who says they want it changed and it still wont be a big enough dent. And like the dude said : "Power Levelers or Locusts" are the VERY last thing on their minds. I remember you complaining that Neverwinter had you leveling to fast. But ESO is too slow?
1. Anything I said about another game has no relevance to ESO or this discussion
2. ESO leveling is not too slow - it's lacking options - as in YOU MUST QUEST - that is the problem
I dislike questing - it's not something I enjoy in ANY game, simply asking for alternate to quest grinding.
go play a game that has no questing then! You knew this game had questing in it back when we heard this was a thing. Your surprised? HOW?!?!
You're actually an MMO dev's ( themepark especially) worst nightmare. You don't do the content that's there, you then get to endgame where there's no-one to play with but your guild. In turn you come to forums saying "there's nothing to do" I know because the guild I've been in since 03 is the same exact way. THis mentality makes up a large part of those who are of the early MMO generation. At least the ones who forgot why it was that way to begin with. ( there was hardly any content to do until what is now called "endgame"..
EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.
A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's
I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job.
No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
Here's an idea....play the freaken game mate!!!!!
It's not that hard.
I am so glad that they have nerfed xp on grinding and you cant cap in 3 days.
I really hope it takes weeks if not months to cap.
Not to mention that without any of the shards you will weak as piss.
FF XIV ARR, SWTOR, DCUO, etc. Take your pick. There are tons.
Also in eso, why cant you grind Fungal Grotto(dungeon)? I got 2 levels doing it 3 times(fun too). Ancheres, PvP, dark fissures, etc. Did you really have that much trouble leveling?
Did you even play any of these games?
SWTOR you can level through Dungeons and PvP without touching a quest after level 10.
In FFXIV ARR events level you faster than quests, quests are largely optional except to get into dungeons.
Edit: Trouble leveling In the PvP zone? Yeah didn't make a tenth of the exp I did questing.My character in FFXIV ARR : Allacore Demonhunter is a level 39 dragoon.
DCUO : Nebulan Angel has full tier 2 gear (working on tier 3)
SWTOR : I have Alden Banseman level 50.
Try again. If you have an account( im not asking for you account name just look my character up) with FF I can take you to my loadstone page to prove it.
Your trolling. AFTER LEVEL 10 IN ESO YOU CAN DO PVP. THERE ARE DUNGEONS TO RE RUN AND PVP AND QUESTING.
I'm not following your point.
Honestly in ESO's case I partly agree with your stance, it's got a big focus on PVP. While they circumvent cutting you off from it during the leveling process, they should realize PVPer's only look at building a character as another layer of the PVP game. (case in point TOA) AT least many anyway. The more hurdles in front of them there, the more they feel they're held back from the part of the game that interests them. SO nerfing PVP XP is definitely not a good move from that perspective.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"How does story feel like a grind?"
One example from the original post:
"If I go through a difficult group dungeon at level 12 several times, then later realize I've went up a 100th of my level, I don't want to do that again. It is a waste of my time and will not progress me for hours of combat. If I want to do the next group dungeons I have to go burn through some quests to get there."
"You would rather just grind mobs and have no incentive to do the story, just for story?"
Although I would be okay with that, because the stories incentive should be the story (and loot). I think that would be a bad decision. There should be a mixture of both.
"Why not fight a level 50 epic boss and put your skills to use?"
Why not have a quest to lead you to an epic 50 lvl boss and realize you need to train to beat him.
"Why go do lower level quests where all the low level new players are and steal their kills and objectives?"
SO you have read and re-read my post and think:
- I don't like quest or stories in games. Though I play the ES series and want to improve the immersion in the quests.
- I am a power leveler because I am concerned with progression.
- I am asinine because you disagree with me.
- And I am a griefer and unhappy because I'm not sure why, but it is exactly how you are acting.
P.S. Ultima Online was my MMO with the most lasting enjoyment. Using skills was the ONLY way to progress in that game.
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The 'topic' is asinine.
1 - you know as well as I do that is not how it works. If you ran Fungal Grotto you would know.
2 - Agree it should be a mix of both.
3 - I'm sure in a "quest heavy" game such as this, that they will have a quest to lead you to it. <-------- You really didnt make much sense with your question.
4 - .................. i'm still kinda' waiting on the point of your rant.....
I can tell your no fan of the series.
All the offline games made leveling through questing and exploration very heavy in the game. Yes, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.
After level 10 in Skyrim, go try to grind. IT SUCKS!!!
Wanna know how I know? I'm alt tabbing back and forth from Skyrim to here to post lol.
Please stop trolling. Or at least have good points.
YOUR ONLY GOOD POINT : More leveling options.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp.
I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
It's like people are whining for no reason because they don't know how the game works.
I agree, I believe in freedom of choice when it comes to games. If someone doesn't love quests as much as I do and wants to grind like old school games, whats it going to hurt? I say let them play the game they want to play for as long as they want to play it that way, its sub money that would not otherwise go intot he coffers of the game I do like.
the more freedom people have, and paths to end game, the more diverse the game becomes and more enjoyable to a wider audience. I'm all for it.
I have to agree with the OP on this one.
I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XP
If a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:
1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.
2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.
3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.
4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.
5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.
6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)
Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.
IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.
As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind.
Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp.
I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
That's just it, is that there are pleanty of games that fit their playstyles. The fact is, none of them are as high quality as ESO is going to be, so that's why there is so much voice going into making it more group friendly. The game is great, it just needs to be fixed to all the social norms of friend/group play, I'm sure they can do this after launch within the first few months of the game.
There's choice and there's contradiction, choice can be great but if choice undermines your product, that's something else entirely. I don't think it's the PVP only types they're worried about in this regard, as that's their main endgame choice right now. However the core playstyle of the game ( those who dabble in both) but prefer PVE would outlevel their main avenue to keep those people, the questing.
IF there's any issue of player preference that ties directly into payment model/profit/etc.. it's this. It's a much deeper issue than many let on.
It's nice to envision freedom and choice, it's often hard to consider the pitfalls that come with them
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS. Please re read his post.