This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Ides385Originally posted by DistopiaThis is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
Having more xp gain from quest or killing mobs in no way stops power leveling. The people that want to do it, will do it one way or another.
My gripe is to give the player the experience he deserves for fighting a tough fight.
Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.
Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.
Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.
You'll level 3 times from adventuring.
Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level.
Like I said... big boost if you're low level.
Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
Having more xp gain from quest or killing mobs in no way stops power leveling. The people that want to do it, will do it one way or another.
My gripe is to give the player the experience he deserves for fighting a tough fight.
You get that for completing the quest, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying though. I don't disagree that more routes for xp gain would be stellar, but it's a balance that you're not seeing in how it correlates in total. They nerfed XP from mobs and PVP kills recently. They're also supposedly looking into upping mob difficulty before release. They're trying to slow down the leveling across the board it seems. Which makes sense for a subscription based game. The longer it takes the longer they play (in theory anyway).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
Having more xp gain from quest or killing mobs in no way stops power leveling. The people that want to do it, will do it one way or another.
My gripe is to give the player the experience he deserves for fighting a tough fight.
You get that for completing the quest, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying though. I don't disagree more routes for xp gain would be stellar, but it's a balance that you're not seeing in how it correlates in total. They nerfed XP from mobs and PVP kills recently. They're also supposedly looking into upping mob difficulty before release. They're trying to slow down the leveling across the board it seems. Which makes sense for a subscription based game. The longer it takes in theory the longer they play.
I'm perfectly fine with all of that. I would just ask that they lower the xp gain from quest so that combat is a viable form of progression. Or which ever way they choose to balance it.
This is also one of many mistakes made in regard to these games as far as retention goes. IF you're trying to keep people playing a game all about story and PVE content, the last thing you want them doing is skipping it all in pursuit of content that's not there ( and in one case had to be removed).
Thank you.
This is not about power leveling. This about the questing content becoming degraded. Its about rewarding you for your time in game (the more challenging the better) not how many quest you finish.
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
Having more xp gain from quest or killing mobs in no way stops power leveling. The people that want to do it, will do it one way or another.
My gripe is to give the player the experience he deserves for fighting a tough fight.
You get that for completing the quest, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying though. I don't disagree that more routes for xp gain would be stellar, but it's a balance that you're not seeing in how it correlates in total. They nerfed XP from mobs and PVP kills recently. They're also supposedly looking into upping mob difficulty before release. They're trying to slow down the leveling across the board it seems. Which makes sense for a subscription based game. The longer it takes the longer they play (in theory anyway).
XP would have to be balanced out.
Lower the XP for quest turn-in completions ... raise the XP per mob killed.
Let's say during a quest you have to kill 5 mobs... you would get the added XP from the mobs killed plus a bit extra on quest turn in for your time spent not killing mobs (traveling, clicking on things, fetching stuff, watching scenes).
In the end balance it so that 1 hour worth of questing XP = 1 hour worth of grinding.
It's not that hard... these developers are great at math
I'm perfectly fine with all of that. I would just ask that they lower the xp gain from quest so that combat is a viable form of progression. Or which ever way they choose to balance it.
Yeah I see what you're saying and I agree, but like I said earlier it's a bit more complicated than many think especially with how this stuff ties into the monetary plans behind the product. The whole goal is to keep you as long as possible. Devs do the damndest things in pursuit of that, sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lower the XP for quest turn-in completions ... raise the XP per mob killed.
Let's say during a quest you have to kill 5 mobs... you would get the added XP from the mobs killed plus a bit extra on quest turn in for your time spent not killing mobs (traveling, clicking on things, fetching stuff, watching scenes).
In the end balance it so that 1 hour worth of questing XP = 1 hour worth of grinding.
It's not that hard... these developers are great at math
Couple things you're not considering though most importantly "who's the core audience". I don't think even they know this right now.
Yet they're probably listening/reacting to the widest group-think speaking out. I know they reduced XP gains and I know during my first beta weekend a common complaint was speed and ease of leveling. They also said they want to up AI difficulty. ALl of these seem like responses to one core group. The questing oriented PVE minded whom want that slow journey.
Secondly it's not exactly always a matter of twiddling with a single number. There could be all kinds of systems tied into the questing systems as an example, that all would need individual tweaks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lower the XP for quest turn-in completions ... raise the XP per mob killed.
Let's say during a quest you have to kill 5 mobs... you would get the added XP from the mobs killed plus a bit extra on quest turn in for your time spent not killing mobs (traveling, clicking on things, fetching stuff, watching scenes).
In the end balance it so that 1 hour worth of questing XP = 1 hour worth of grinding.
It's not that hard... these developers are great at math
Couple things you're not considering though most importantly "who's the core audience". I don't think even they know this right now.
Yet they're probably listening/reacting to the widest group-think speaking out. I know they reduced XP gains and I know during my first beta weekend a common complaint was speed and ease of leveling. They also said they want to up AI difficulty. ALl of these seem like responses to one core group. The questing oriented PVE minded whom want that slow journey.
Secondly it's not exactly always a matter of twiddling with a single number. There could be all kinds of systems tied into the questing systems as an example, that all would need individual tweaks.
I agree with you.. there's a lot more complexity then my simple example (C.S. degree here). I do think when they adjusted the mob XP and PvP XP they went down way too far (IMO)...for all we know it could get bumped up a bit before launch.
I like a slow journey as well.. just don't want there to be only one path.
I agree with you.. there's a lot more complexity then my simple example (C.S. degree here). I do think when they adjusted the mob XP and PvP XP they went down way too far (IMO)...for all we know it could get bumped up a bit before launch.
I like a slow journey as well.. just don't want there to be only one path.
Yeah that's certainly a possibility. Especially if it picks up steam at launch as a complaint, which I suspect it will.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Palazious Originally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by PalaziousOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level. HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.
Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.
Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.
You'll level 3 times from adventuring.
Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level.
Like I said... big boost if you're low level.
Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.
Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.
Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.
You'll level 3 times from adventuring.
Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level.
Like I said... big boost if you're low level.
Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
Originally posted by Palazious Originally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by PalaziousOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by PalaziousOriginally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level. HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.You'll level 3 times from adventuring.Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level. Like I said... big boost if you're low level.Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
ALL THE NAY SAYERS ARE SAYING, "I DON'T LIKE QUESTING, NEVER HAVE, AND NEVER WILL"
Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.You'll level 3 times from adventuring.Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level. Like I said... big boost if you're low level.Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
ALL THE NAY SAYERS ARE SAYING, "I DON'T LIKE QUESTING, NEVER HAVE, AND NEVER WILL"
Re read some of these posts dude.
You're yelling again
Lot's of people don't like questing all the time .. myself included.
No one is saying take questing out... shut down the game... or make it not a viable path of XP. (reading comprehension ftw)
The only one arguing against others play style as a viable means of XP is you.
I want questers to be very happy so ESO has great retention and a nice sized player base for the longevity of the game.
and then there are those of us who despise dungeon power leveling and are here because of the quests and the lore. I think the hardest thing for a company to do is to meet you and I half way and produce a game that holds your interest long enough to run the gambit of the dungeons and mine to immerse myself in the lore and the questing. I despise power levelers and pvp so I suppose I am in the other camp of enjoying the feel of single-player mode with ESO.
Originally posted by PalaziousI have to agree with the OP on this one.I think an MMO should offer multiple choices of ways to get XP as not all players like being forced to quest for XPIf a developer wants to project an average player of 60 days played to max level why not offer choices of:1) 60 days worth of questing... gameplay that questers enjoy.2) 60 days worth of mob grinding....gameplay that grinders enjoy.3) 60 days worth of PvP....gameplay that PvPrs enjoy.4) 60 days worth of crafting...gameplay that crafters enjoy.5) 60 days worth of dungeon crawling...gameplay that dungeon crawlers enjoy.6) 60 days worth of a mix of all of the above.... gameplay that those who like to do a little of this and a little of that would enjoy (like me)Right now ESO is pretty much 100% XP from questing... XP from PvP, grinding, crafting, dungeon crawling is just so small its not even in the running.IMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.As far as some wanting to force other players to try to play their type of gameplay makes no sense... what does it bother you if someone gets to the same level on the average as you if they did it by grinding verses questing? It's not like you're forced to grind. Quests (or tasks IMO... quests went out with EQ) are my least enjoyable way to get XP... way too much been there/done that with every MMO released in the last several years.
FYI - Did you know when you discover a new area you get a big boost of xp? Did you also know that when you get achievements you get another huge boost in xp. I got 3 levels by just running around the map and I didnt even fight 1 enemy npc.
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.You'll level 3 times from adventuring.Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level. Like I said... big boost if you're low level.Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
ALL THE NAY SAYERS ARE SAYING, "I DON'T LIKE QUESTING, NEVER HAVE, AND NEVER WILL"
Re read some of these posts dude.
You're yelling again
Lot's of people don't like questing all the time .. myself included.
No one is saying take questing out... shut down the game... or make it not a viable path of XP. (reading comprehension ftw)
The only one arguing against others play style as a viable means of XP is you.
I want questers to be very happy so ESO has great retention and a nice sized player base for the longevity of the game.
More players = a more enjoyable MMO.
Best play another game then, as Elder Scrolls games are all about story and questing
The recent patch actually nerfed experience from grind spots and other alternatives even more. Basically forcing everyone to quest. People speccing themselves for healing or tanking are at a bigger disadvantage as they won't be able to do quests as quickly as people specced for DPS. Yes I know you can do both, but not at low levels when points are scarce.
The trade off for that has always been that they can get groups easier. I see no reason to penalise XP in dungeons, grinding and PvP compared to quests. If they want more people to do the quests, make them interesting and worth doing, at the moment they are so boring that I don't blame anyone for wanting to bypass them completely.
Best play another game then, as Elder Scrolls games are all about story and questing
Most people barely even do the main quest line in ES games, they have always been about grinding skills and having fun in the world.
Interesting how you could have fun playing the game either way in the other ones.
I put hundreds of hours into Morrowind and never beat the game. I didn't realize there was a main story until a friend was talking about it. I did not even know. I was too busy having fun doing other stuff.
Originally posted by PalaziousIMO, far better player retention allowing players to enjoy whatever type of gameplay they wish.
And that is where the problem is - you would need to provide a content for other feasible ways of gaining XP.
Themepark and sandbox designs are mutualy exclusive - one provides specific game exprience(story, quests, power gain, etc. ), while the other provides options(tools, replayable content, consequences).
Originally posted by Man_of_LeisureI also hate the questing. To me, reading an npcs dialogue and fulfilling mundane requests is not a quest, its a task. If i wanted tasks I'd ask my boss for extra work.In the last beta weekend I spent a decent chunk of time wandering around trying to find high level critters to kill for better xp. I was killing things 4+ levels higher and the xp was still terrible despite the fact that one strong attack from these enemies would kill me if not blocked! Yet 2 shotting a few quest mobs gets me a level, wtf? What happened to risk vs reward?I suppose the fix is just get to level 10, enter cyordil and level by killing others, but until that point I had to abandon my exploration and go back to running tasks.
It's just the way they have set up player progression. The big rewards are for quest completion and exploration as opposed to mob kills. They just have the values set at a different ratio than we are used to
No big rewards are for quest completion and quest completion alone. Which is understandable, as there is no way I would bother with their stale quests if it wasn't heavily incentivized.
you really hate this game dont you reeereee?All your posts are VERY negative about the game, but you claim you are playing come early access. Why all the hate? So far you hate questing, combat, graphics, etc. Yeah....I checked all your other posts.So, I figure your a troll or a troll claiming to be playing the game and is "serious" about it when somebody calls you out.I'm just confused on why you hate it so much, but can't stop bringing everybody else down with you.Please explain what you do like about the game so your points ARE taken SERIOUSLY. (cant be 100% negative about a game that your "going to play")Also, how are the quests bland? Each one I did was unique and very fun and amusing in their own way.I hated in LOTRO where you pick up so many quests that you end up outleveling half the ones you have yet to do.BTW nobody complained when SWTOR, DCUO, FFXIV ARR, etc. had level progression through quests. THIS IS NOT NEW. MMO's have been doing this for a while now. ESO just followed the trend.
Ah this discussion! I'm very critical because I had high hopes! There is some great patriotic quote about why people who love their country criticize it, but I don't feel like looking it up.
A) I don't recall ever being that critical of the combat and I clearly stated it was better than FFXIV ARR's
I don't recall criticizing the graphics only the character model which are a subset of the graphics.
I'm glad you found the quests so compelling, I did not. Mostly because I kept comparing the story to SWTOR and finding them lacking. I'm not saying everything about SWTOR is better than ESO, I just think when it comes to story telling SWTOR did a much better job.
No ESO did not just follow the trend. Name me one MMO in the post WoW era that nerfed all forms of exp other than questing into the ground so that the only reasonable way to advance was questing? In almost every recent mmo you could level though PvP/dungeons, while somewhat slower than questing it was still at least reasonably viable. In gw2 there were a number of other options like crafting/gathering/exploration/events. FFXIV ARR didn't have PvP at launch but had events/dungeons.
FF XIV ARR, SWTOR, DCUO, etc. Take your pick. There are tons.
Also in eso, why cant you grind Fungal Grotto(dungeon)? I got 2 levels doing it 3 times(fun too). Ancheres, PvP, dark fissures, etc. Did you really have that much trouble leveling?
Did you even play any of these games?
SWTOR you can level through Dungeons and PvP without touching a quest after level 10.
In FFXIV ARR events level you faster than quests, quests are largely optional except to get into dungeons.
Edit: Trouble leveling In the PvP zone? Yeah didn't make a tenth of the exp I did questing.
Funny you mention SWTOR because it works like this:
You pick up daily/weekly QUEST
When you enter FP you are embedded a QUEST
You can pick up specific FP QUEST
Then you do FP and you get a fraction of your level from killing
Then when you turn in all QUESTS you get almost if not level worth of xp
Same goes for WZs.
Its really ironic lol Doing those things without QUESTS yields miniscule xp.
Its really obvious they want bigger control of xp gains and quests are easiest way to do it.
They also dont want level 50+ players ganking 50- players in Cyrodill 2 days from launch considering how bolster is crap (which is the main goal for those who wrote in this thread).
Best play another game then, as Elder Scrolls games are all about story and questing
Most people barely even do the main quest line in ES games, they have always been about grinding skills and having fun in the world.
Eso is not for "Most people". Why it should be? To make everybody happy? Or just most of people happy?
No. To give limited amount of gamers what they want. Story, lore and questing without grinding. You don't like it? Don't play then. Its not for you. Deal with it. Deal with it. DEAL WITH IT!
I recommend Wildstar. I really mean it. And if you will see someone complaining there about meaningless quests and grinding recommend him Eso. Because there are games for everyone. Insisting that specific game should be changed to your specific taste is... well lets not go there.
Best play another game then, as Elder Scrolls games are all about story and questing
Most people barely even do the main quest line in ES games, they have always been about grinding skills and having fun in the world.
Eso is not for "Most people". Why it should be? To make everybody happy? Or just most of people happy?
No. To give limited amount of gamers what they want. Story, lore and questing without grinding. You don't like it? Don't play then. Its not for you. Deal with it. Deal with it. DEAL WITH IT!
I recommend Wildstar. I really mean it. And if you will see someone complaining there about meaningless quests and grinding recommend him Eso. Because there are games for everyone. Insisting that specific game should be changed to your specific taste is... well lets not go there.
See I would understand this type of advice if ESO had great quests like The Secret World, but it doesn't. In terms of questing, both ESO and Wildstar are pretty much on par in having terrible dialogue and shallow objectives.
If you enjoy the quests, that's great, but why do players that would prefer to level by doing social activities like dungeons need to be penalised for not wanting to quest? What is the logic in forcing everyone to do the same activity to level? That has never been what the Elder Scrolls were about.
Comments
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Uh power-leveling is a big factor behind your gripe, as what stops it is taking away options to supplement XP gain, the root cause of what you're wanting looked into.
LMAO this^^^^^
+ 1,000,000,000
Having more xp gain from quest or killing mobs in no way stops power leveling. The people that want to do it, will do it one way or another.
My gripe is to give the player the experience he deserves for fighting a tough fight.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.
Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.
Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.
You'll level 3 times from adventuring.
Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level.
Like I said... big boost if you're low level.
Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
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You get that for completing the quest, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying though. I don't disagree that more routes for xp gain would be stellar, but it's a balance that you're not seeing in how it correlates in total. They nerfed XP from mobs and PVP kills recently. They're also supposedly looking into upping mob difficulty before release. They're trying to slow down the leveling across the board it seems. Which makes sense for a subscription based game. The longer it takes the longer they play (in theory anyway).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm perfectly fine with all of that. I would just ask that they lower the xp gain from quest so that combat is a viable form of progression. Or which ever way they choose to balance it.
XP would have to be balanced out.
Lower the XP for quest turn-in completions ... raise the XP per mob killed.
Let's say during a quest you have to kill 5 mobs... you would get the added XP from the mobs killed plus a bit extra on quest turn in for your time spent not killing mobs (traveling, clicking on things, fetching stuff, watching scenes).
In the end balance it so that 1 hour worth of questing XP = 1 hour worth of grinding.
It's not that hard... these developers are great at math
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Yeah I see what you're saying and I agree, but like I said earlier it's a bit more complicated than many think especially with how this stuff ties into the monetary plans behind the product. The whole goal is to keep you as long as possible. Devs do the damndest things in pursuit of that, sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Couple things you're not considering though most importantly "who's the core audience". I don't think even they know this right now.
Yet they're probably listening/reacting to the widest group-think speaking out. I know they reduced XP gains and I know during my first beta weekend a common complaint was speed and ease of leveling. They also said they want to up AI difficulty. ALl of these seem like responses to one core group. The questing oriented PVE minded whom want that slow journey.
Secondly it's not exactly always a matter of twiddling with a single number. There could be all kinds of systems tied into the questing systems as an example, that all would need individual tweaks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree with you.. there's a lot more complexity then my simple example (C.S. degree here). I do think when they adjusted the mob XP and PvP XP they went down way too far (IMO)...for all we know it could get bumped up a bit before launch.
I like a slow journey as well.. just don't want there to be only one path.
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Yeah that's certainly a possibility. Especially if it picks up steam at launch as a complaint, which I suspect it will.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible.
Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4.
Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map.
You'll level 3 times from adventuring.
Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level.
Like I said... big boost if you're low level.
Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
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Yes... it's a big boost if your very low level.
HE SAID YOU GET XP FROM QUESTS ONLY. Please re read his post.
In the whole scheme of things it's pretty negligible. Let's say you need 300 xp for level 2.... 500 xp for level 3 and 900 xp for level 4 for a total of 1700 xp to get to level 4. Let's say the weekend beta map gives you 1700 xp for exploring the available map. You'll level 3 times from adventuring. Let's say from level 9 to 10 it takes 15000 xp..... that 1700 xp is only 11% of that level. Like I said... big boost if you're low level. Biggest question is why you so upset? How would someone who gets their xp from grinding affect you in any way as long as its balanced?
Because the 1% want Zenimax to shut down the game and make it just for their play style. Thats exactly what people are saying. Ever heard the expression, "read between the lines to see the truth"?
I disagree with you 100%.
IMO, players just want an alternative. I don't think anyone here is arguing for making questing not a viable path... I know I'm not.
ALL THE NAY SAYERS ARE SAYING, "I DON'T LIKE QUESTING, NEVER HAVE, AND NEVER WILL"
Re read some of these posts dude.
You're yelling again
Lot's of people don't like questing all the time .. myself included.
No one is saying take questing out... shut down the game... or make it not a viable path of XP. (reading comprehension ftw)
The only one arguing against others play style as a viable means of XP is you.
I want questers to be very happy so ESO has great retention and a nice sized player base for the longevity of the game.
More players = a more enjoyable MMO.
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Lar
Best play another game then, as Elder Scrolls games are all about story and questing
Agreed.
The recent patch actually nerfed experience from grind spots and other alternatives even more. Basically forcing everyone to quest. People speccing themselves for healing or tanking are at a bigger disadvantage as they won't be able to do quests as quickly as people specced for DPS. Yes I know you can do both, but not at low levels when points are scarce.
The trade off for that has always been that they can get groups easier. I see no reason to penalise XP in dungeons, grinding and PvP compared to quests. If they want more people to do the quests, make them interesting and worth doing, at the moment they are so boring that I don't blame anyone for wanting to bypass them completely.
Most people barely even do the main quest line in ES games, they have always been about grinding skills and having fun in the world.
Interesting how you could have fun playing the game either way in the other ones.
I put hundreds of hours into Morrowind and never beat the game. I didn't realize there was a main story until a friend was talking about it. I did not even know. I was too busy having fun doing other stuff.
And that is where the problem is - you would need to provide a content for other feasible ways of gaining XP.
Themepark and sandbox designs are mutualy exclusive - one provides specific game exprience(story, quests, power gain, etc. ), while the other provides options(tools, replayable content, consequences).
Funny you mention SWTOR because it works like this:
You pick up daily/weekly QUEST
When you enter FP you are embedded a QUEST
You can pick up specific FP QUEST
Then you do FP and you get a fraction of your level from killing
Then when you turn in all QUESTS you get almost if not level worth of xp
Same goes for WZs.
Its really ironic lol Doing those things without QUESTS yields miniscule xp.
Its really obvious they want bigger control of xp gains and quests are easiest way to do it.
They also dont want level 50+ players ganking 50- players in Cyrodill 2 days from launch considering how bolster is crap (which is the main goal for those who wrote in this thread).
How would you know this information? I guess it sure makes your own opinion sound a lot stronger though doesn't it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Eso is not for "Most people". Why it should be? To make everybody happy? Or just most of people happy?
No. To give limited amount of gamers what they want. Story, lore and questing without grinding. You don't like it? Don't play then. Its not for you. Deal with it. Deal with it. DEAL WITH IT!
I recommend Wildstar. I really mean it. And if you will see someone complaining there about meaningless quests and grinding recommend him Eso. Because there are games for everyone. Insisting that specific game should be changed to your specific taste is... well lets not go there.
See I would understand this type of advice if ESO had great quests like The Secret World, but it doesn't. In terms of questing, both ESO and Wildstar are pretty much on par in having terrible dialogue and shallow objectives.
If you enjoy the quests, that's great, but why do players that would prefer to level by doing social activities like dungeons need to be penalised for not wanting to quest? What is the logic in forcing everyone to do the same activity to level? That has never been what the Elder Scrolls were about.