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Why do people dismiss the "it isn't like Skyrim" argument?
tixylix
Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
Seems to me there is a lot of negativity towards this game because it really doesn't play much like an Elder Scrolls game at all. There is this argument from fans that this is an MMO and it isn't a traditional Elder Scrolls game. I don't see how you can call that original argument invalid just because this is an MMO...
Lots of people (including myself) have been saying for years that The Elder Scrolls games are like MMOs but without all the crap that comes with them. How they could so easily turn Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim into an MMO and it would be the best thing out there, void of all the stupid grinding and linear worlds.
So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games. We wanted a full skill system where you could be what you want without this half arsed bizarre class system they tacked on. We wanted it to be no linear, to just have amazing quests dotted around that you could do at any time for the fun of it. In Skyrim and all the SP games, I just did quests because they were so much fun to do, where as in TESO, they're "run over here and press E" or "go here collect these" or "kill a set numbers of these"... it is so grindy, so linear, the story to the quests are crap because they feel like MMO 1.0 quests but with VO tacked on.
To me it is a perfectly valid argument because essentially what they've done is made a weird mix of themepark MMO and Elder Scrolls and it really achieves neither well. You have this boring linear themepark wolrd where you cannot even see the enemies factions and it is all locked off to levels and basically is a set linear path through a world that shrinks. However there is nothing Massive to it, the world feels so enclosed, not helped by the map design at all. Also though there is no reason to group in the game, no one does it because really it is a SP game is disguise and the only stuff where players are involved is camping mobs you need as well. I tried to play with a friend like I do in any MMO and we couldn't because we always turned invisible to each other and we couldn't complete quests together........ even a coop version of the SP Elder Scrolls games could have achieved this basic functionality.
Are you an MMO fan? You might possibly like it as they're all Solo based themepark games these days. However you cannot invalidate the opinions of who this game should have been for and that is the Elder Scrolls fans. Every single person I've spoken to who is a fan, in real life and on my Steam Friends, they've all said it isn't an Elder Scrolls game and thought it was crap.
Though it is an expensive marketing campaign it seems, all it has done is gotten people back into Skyrim lol.
Comments
i love mmos and i love elder scrolls games.
and frankly. this IS an elder scrolls mmo.
so, your argument is dismissed!
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
OP I do agree with you. Im a big TES fan with over 1000 hours in Skyrim. I was quite exalted over the release of ESO.
This linear questing is kinda boring, and the lack of support for grouping with friends, its not funny to see a floating arrow.
Im a bit disapponted, to be honest. I will subscribe but thats only because I want to reach lvl 50. I will not do the VR content.
I will do one more month in game and then play some IRL over the summer.
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Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
@Rusque
Ofc you are right, this isnt Skyrim online. Speaking for myself, I had totally wrong expectations. This isnt the game I thought it would be.
I can accept quest grinding and bugs but when I cant play with friends, thats not ok, for me.
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But I will say that there are people out there that can only play 1 game at a time. So for fans of ES and MMOs this is like a holy grail to them. Which there's nothing with that.
But for people like you and me, we can play more than 1 game at a time. So playing Skyrim and another choice MMO is a better option than ESO.
OP
simple its a MMO. Those players think also that there should be no Action House,, then u know that they can better stick to a RPG game not a MMO.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
When I originally heard about ESO, I thought it would be a complete disaster.
"You cannot re-create the Skyrim experience in an MMORPG"
I ignored the game from that point onwards. The game would be a joke, my mind was made up.
Until I decided to try a beta weekend out of sheer curiosity, and ended-up instantly pre-ordering an Imperial Edition !
I was right about the "cannot create Skyrim in an MMORPG" part, but what I hadn't considered was that you could "create a MMORPG in Skyrim"...
+10
Many people are going to quit once hitting V1+
The lack of options to level from this point on is bizar.....
Zenimax throws quest afyer quest after quest and you just lose any will to follow the story or enjoy the game as your just hating and frustrated by the little things and want to have fun !!!
But all of that is taken away by the lenght of gaining a level on the way you want to play.
When you grind quests for 5 hours and see you gained 25% of a level you lose the fun in playing simple as that.
Level 1 to 50 was perfect, main quest story was fun !
Then at V1 there is none of that, its just regular quests....hundreds of regular quest..
No immersion anymore, no real story to follow...
Just plain old grinding quest exp for days and days and days on end.
And nothing to break that pattern
Our guild have a few V10's and we do some fun ops in Cyrodiil, but its basicly a total waiste of time if you want to reach V10 as you gain nothing...
Running dungeons.....ugh you exp bar doesnt even move after 4 runs.
You feel punsished by doing other contend then questing and this is not good for such a young mmo...
I realy love ESO i realy do !!!
But Zenimax need to offer a little more then a boring quest grind to keep people entertained and getting the playerbase to V10.
Its not my call and i wont quit, but i already see massive amounts of people leaving the game due to this horrible quest grind.
I hope it wont be a sad story or another page in the fail mmo books, but all signs are pointing that way if Zenimax doesnt offer more before the 1st month is done.
From the beginning, this game was being made by people that thought everything was "too hard".
From player housing, to an auction house or player vendors, to having players be able to influence/change the game world in the smallest degree, this was the game/company that "couldn't".
Is it any surprise that this game is mediocre at best, with gameplay compromise after compromise?
So now people are wondering why Zenimax didn't make a "better" game (both in terms of better game mechanics and a more technically sound product) for the premium price they are charging.
Why didn't they?
I guess they "couldn't".
I think that complaining that "It isn't like Skyrim" is irrational. They are not the same game, they shouldn't be alike. It's like complaining that Game of Thrones isn't like Simpsons.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It's an invalid argument because there has been an Elder Scrolls game that is totally linear and plays like a Tomb Raider game. That game being Redguard.
Maybe not an invalid argument, just completely irrelevant.
It cannot be a FFA, fully customizable, go anywhere kind of game you want. The reasons should be obvious but ill spell it out anyway.
It cannot be FFA because people are stupid and would just go around killing/attacking every NPC they can. Towns would be cleared or under constant attack by idiots who get a kick out of annoying people.
You cannot just go anywhere and do anything because the levels dont and cannot scale with your level in ESO. Many people of different levels can be in that same zone/cave youre in.
You cannot customize the entire characters spec because there has to be some semblance of balance between players. As many did with Skyrim, they became practically invincible while others were gimped.
Other than that I dont see any differences between the 2.The game plays very much like an ES game despite the necessary differences. Yet another reason why the "this is nothing like Skyrim" crowd gets ignored/flamed (or should be) just as much as the "WoW clone" crowd.
Except it is an Elder Scrolls game. A game where the fundamental expectations conflict with many aspects of the design is a problem. It's been pointed out by more than one reviewer, and it has been noticed by enough people that it keeps coming up.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well, lets see. Thousands of books to read. Hundreds of hours of voice-acted quests. Visiting all over Tamriel in a lot of different environments. Flexible class design (and, yes, there were classes in ES games before Skyrim, and the class design is remarkably flexible by MMO standards.) Extensive crafting with a lot of customization options. Tons of exploring; tons of Easter eggs. The world visibily changes as you do things. This feels a hell of a lot like an Elder Scrolls game to me.
Now, it does lack some of the silly frills from single-player games - like building pillow forts or killing everyone in town. But there is a lot more to the Elder Scrolls series than these tricks, and if you have an open mind you can find them.
It keeps coming up from Skyrim players. Yes, Skyrim really grew the popularity of ES but you can tell that they're Skyrim players because they have no perspective in their expectations because their point of reference stems from a singular title in the series.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Differences_Between_Morrowind,_Oblivion,_and_Skyrim
There were major changes that were good/bad between games. The loss of creating your own spells, that was sad. But NPC's got their own lives. Combat changed between all of them, skill systems changed, conversation mechanics changed. Really, the IP is the one thing keeping them together.
So yes, ESO is not Skyrim online. Skyrim is not Morrowind either. But they're all Elder Scrolls games. It doesn't matter how many reviewers point out the same irrational view. Just because many people share a nonsensical idea doesn't make it correct. Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy and will remain as such.
Before it launched there were TESO isn't Skyrim posts but post launch? Can't say I have come across many (any?). I think people who post and played beta and decided TESO wasn't their ideal of an ES mmo didn't buy it.
To me the PVE content feels like a MMO with a TES series feel to it. Somethings do feel like Elder Scrolls games and some don't but I never expected it to feel identical. But you know what? Oblivion and Skyrim had the same feeling to me compared to what I consider the benchmark TES game Morrowind. They removed and changed a ton of stuff in those games that really changed the look and feel of the games. Some of it was good and some was bad but you can't deny the changes happened.
Now Cyrodill feels like Skyrim online. No content levels, a big open world with lots of places to explore and enemy players trying to kill you around every corner. Most people I see that dismiss ESO as not being Elder Scrolls enough tend to ignore this zone for some reason. I can only imagine they are either anti PVP or to focused on the keeps to notice the huge open landscape around them with lots of other things to do that feels very much like Skyrim.
All in all I think ESO is more of a TES game than I feared it would be but less than I hoped. Just like when Oblivion came out I think I can live with that.
It is always the same. 'Skyrim Online is not possible because all npc's would be dead' etc etc. Of course you have to make changes when turning an ES game into a MMO. But that is no reason for some of the completely unnecessary design choices that Zenimax made. Zenimax went the easy route imo.
1. There is no need to divide a MMO world into levels.
- ESO obviously can't make the world level with you like in Oblivion/Skyrim. But instead of just making the old cookie cutter divide the world into lvl brackets solution, they could have got rid of levels alltogether. This has been done before (SWG preNGE and Ultima Online as example). This would be the logical choice because lvls are already quite meaningless in Skyrim.
2. There is no need to make quest completion grant most of the experience needed for progression.
- This ties in with the feel of freedom in Skyrim. In Skyrim the quests don't give experience. Mobs don't even give experience. It is using your abilities that progresses you. This is also why character progression in Skyrim feels so intuitive. Because you progress in the abilities and activities that you prefer. This also makes it possible that you can do whatever quest or none at all if you prefer. And go wherever you want.
These 2 design choices are the main reason why ESO feels like the next lineair quest world and why part of the Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind players miss the needed freedom of an Elder Scrolls world. I specifically leave out older ES games because its those 3 last ones that made the series really popular.
Yes, the lore is there. But the lore alone is not the reason why ES games nowadays are so popular. Freedom of developing your character and go about your own business in that virtual world are at least as important for the popularity of these series. Things that are sorely missing or unnecessary compromised in ESO.
Have you spent any time running around Cyrodill? It doesn't fix item 2 but it goes al ing way to fill the gap in number 1.
As for 2, I think what they did a good compromise to having people swimming into a wall all day to get a specific skill up. I have played use a skill to level it up MMO's and I really can't say I have been impressed with how any of them handle content scaling.
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".