i see people all the time / the 1st week saying they were huge elder scroll fans and they loved all the elder scroll games and this is their 1st mmorpg "in game" to try out just because its elder scrolls...and they love it ..in fact we have a guild with about 450 ppl and we have a bunch of ppl that play the just to read up on the lore and enjoy the game for what it is..not everybody plays a game because its sopsose to be greatest of all time or just because its the flavor of the month..some people like to play because its what they want to do and not what the flock wants or some critic says whats good or bad..heck iv downoad and tryd out old mmo's that everybody seems to shoot down before they get going and turn out to be decent games all the time and even older games....its a matter of choice really....just pushing that choice upon others isnt the way to go unless you choose / try for yourself first..if you tryd it didnt like it thats fine but saying its not for someone else because you dont like it is selfish
I look at this game as an mmo paying tribute to the Elder Scrolls, that way I don't set up boundaries from which I can either enjoy the game or not. It doesn't have to be just like the single player games, I enjoy seeing the characters and the geography and lore.
Although last night a song from Oblivion came on when I was playing and I got a huge urge to go play that instead.
Originally posted by Gravehill I agree 100%. "Well yeah it isn't as good as Skyrim, but it's an MMO so it has to cut corners!!!!!!!"...well then why not go play Skyrim? That argument is completely ridiculous
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".
I have the impression that you haven't played the game - is this correct? Or did you try the beta and quit? Because you're making blanket assertions that are being strongly disputed by ES fans who have played both the single player and MMO games.
I wonder if these people making up these type of topics actually are ES fans. Reason is they speak about the linear quest lines?? As a ES fan and MMORPG fan (overall a gamer) I find it wierd to see these "so-called" ES fan letting the game hold their hand. Then again we seem to live in a time where they want it all and want it now so they GRIND themselfs to boredom.
I however like with any ES game take my time, sometimes my playtime consist only about exporing/gathering/harvesting, other times I like to be immersed with it's lore (quests), other times I just craft allot. Sometimes my playsession is inventory/resource management (4 characters). Then I have moments I truly want to gain that new level because of new crafted gear/weapons. Then I have my trade sessions etc....
YEAH ESO is truly a ES game to me mainly due to how the game works. Obviously I can do above things in a any MMO, but to me it's the presentation of ESO that makes this a ES games.
EDIT: To the person below. I am glad I know and understand the differences between a singleplayer game and a MMO/MMORPG.
So I am glad this isn't Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim online, because turning those games into MMO/MMORPG but be as is but with more people in it it will be a very boring and short lived experiance for sure.
I've said it before and I will say it again. If ZOS couldn't have figured out how to make ESO like the other Elder Scrolls games, then they should have waited to figure out how. It's painfully obvious this isn't Skyrim/Morrowind/Oblivion online, however those games had way more in common with each other than ESO has with any of them. Imagine if one could actually say, "ESO is just like Skyrim/Morrowind/Oblivion online!". But that's the problem, it's nothing like those games because it has been watered down and shoehorned into a format that it never was intended for. I wouldn't be surprised if Todd Howard already gave Matt Firor the, "I told you so..." speach behind closed doors. Of course it wasn't Todd Howard's decision for ESO and Matt was given the difficult task of being the director and trying to convert a well established single player IP into something that resembled DAOC. This is just a case of big ZeniMax Media Inc. trying cash in the MMO money train. Is that a sin? Of course not, however now they have to deal with this game just like id's Rage. What's next from Bethesda? A Doom MMO?
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
the red part +1 they sold out to the trendies just to make a quick buck..do i blame them no..imo morrowind was one of the greatest ever ..but i do enjoy TESO for what it is and not for what someone thinks it should be..did they sell out to make this mmo..yah probly but its a good game unlike the last 2
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
the red part +1 they sold out to the trendies just to make a quick buck..do i blame them no..imo morrowind was one of the greatest ever ..but i do enjoy TESO for what it is and not for what someone thinks it should be..did they sell out to make this mmo..yah probly but its a good game unlike the last 2
I also think Morrowind was the high point of this series but I wouldn't call Oblivion or Skyrim bad games by any measure just not on the caliber of Morrowind.
I will say I have put a lot more hours into ESO in the past month than I did into Skyrim and Oblivion the first month they were out and total hours played may very well end up being Morrowind, ESO, Skyrim, Oblivion the way things are going. I would have to play for a long time to pass the hours I poured into Morrowind but if I really dig the Adventure zones and if Zenimax can keep new content coming I might pass even that game in time. Really what is a few thousand hours of play time in a MMO like this?
Originally posted by Gravehill I agree 100%. "Well yeah it isn't as good as Skyrim, but it's an MMO so it has to cut corners!!!!!!!"...well then why not go play Skyrim? That argument is completely ridiculous
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".
I have the impression that you haven't played the game - is this correct? Or did you try the beta and quit? Because you're making blanket assertions that are being strongly disputed by ES fans who have played both the single player and MMO games.
Oh look, it's a "Well you know what they say" argument. So, exactly who are "they" and exactly what are they saying? (The ES fans who are strongly disputing MY blanket assertions...as if)
Otherwise, I can make a "they say" argument too, only I don't have to since I can go get the references from the people who are saying the opposite.
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
I am sure TES V will have nothing to do with Skyrim. It's not like TES V and Skyrim aren't the same game right?
TES I - Arena
TES II - Daggerfall
TES III - Morrowind
TES IV - Oblivion
TES which has nothing to do with other TES games - Skyrim
TES V - To be released
How can you say that Skyrim has nothing to do with Oblivion and Morrowind? They have the exact same principle - a free open world where you can go anywhere, all have a skills based progression system, have a very similar dungeon exploration and letting you open up/pick up almost everything you see. The really big difference between Skyrim/Oblivion and Morrowind/Arena/Daggerfall, is that in the last 2 TES games they have quest markers and tell you where you need to go. Morrowind/Daggerfall/Arena literally laugh at you and tell you to go read your quest log.
Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind have a lot in common. ESO is based in the Elder Scrolls Universe but is an MMO which is very different to the iconic TES series.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
I am sure TES V will have nothing to do with Skyrim. It's not like TES V and Skyrim aren't the same game right?
TES I - Arena
TES II - Daggerfall
TES III - Morrowind
TES IV - Oblivion
TES which has nothing to do with other TES games - Skyrim
TES V - To be released
How can you say that Skyrim has nothing to do with Oblivion and Morrowind? They have the exact same principle - a free open world where you can go anywhere, all have a skills based progression system, have a very similar dungeon exploration and letting you open up/pick up almost everything you see. The really big difference between Skyrim/Oblivion and Morrowind/Arena/Daggerfall, is that in the last 2 TES games they have quest markers and tell you where you need to go. Morrowind/Daggerfall/Arena literally laugh at you and tell you to go read your quest log.
Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind have a lot in common. ESO is based in the Elder Scrolls Universe but is an MMO which is very different to the iconic TES series.
I didn't call Skyrim "Elder Scrolls V" in another thread and got told I had insulted the entire Elder Scrolls community. That's the kind of logic you have to take into account here.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Because it's not called Skyrim online. And very few people said, "Skyrim isn't like Oblivion." or "Oblivion isn't like Morrowind." Even though they're all within the same lore IP, they're all different.
ESO is what Zenimax came up with as an online version of Elder Scrolls. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to like it. But Skyrim has nothing to do with it. Just like when ES V eventually comes out, Skyrim will have nothing to do with that either. It will, once again, be it's own game.
The reason people keep bringing up Skyrim is because it's the first and only ES game they've played. Each ES game has been different, and ESO happens to be the online game of the IP, nothing more, nothing less.
There are fans of Morrowind that believe Oblivion and Skyrim are trendy populist trash. What would a Skyrim fan think of that?
Let me help you understand something: "So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games."
It doesn't matter what you wanted. You didn't make the game.
If you like it, fine.
If you hate it, fine.
Either way, it wasn't going to be Skyrim Online.
I am sure TES V will have nothing to do with Skyrim. It's not like TES V and Skyrim aren't the same game right?
TES I - Arena
TES II - Daggerfall
TES III - Morrowind
TES IV - Oblivion
TES which has nothing to do with other TES games - Skyrim
TES V - To be released
How can you say that Skyrim has nothing to do with Oblivion and Morrowind? They have the exact same principle - a free open world where you can go anywhere, all have a skills based progression system, have a very similar dungeon exploration and letting you open up/pick up almost everything you see. The really big difference between Skyrim/Oblivion and Morrowind/Arena/Daggerfall, is that in the last 2 TES games they have quest markers and tell you where you need to go. Morrowind/Daggerfall/Arena literally laugh at you and tell you to go read your quest log.
Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind have a lot in common. ESO is based in the Elder Scrolls Universe but is an MMO which is very different to the iconic TES series.
Yes Arena, I always forget that one cause I never played it. I hadn't started playing PC games at that point. I never revisited it.
ESO is open world, on a map by map level. If you compare apples to apples - One map to one map, then they're both open and free. You can roam the map, do quests in any order and basically just do what you would do in the single player games. But people are comparing ESO on a macro scale 1 faction (4 zones per / 12 maps + Cyrodiil) vs 1 map. And they ask why it's not completely 100% free roam.
I get the desire to have that, and you won't find me saying I wouldn't have liked it either. But at least realize that ZOS took two concepts, the free roaming open world, allowed it to exist in each map and the MMO style zones by level and merged them. Quite well too. In each map, you feel very free, and because you spend so much time on each map, it doesn't feel that limiting.
Originally posted by Kayo45 The reasons are simple. Skyrim isnt an MMO! There are tons of thiings right off the bat that cannot work in an MMO just because its an MMO. Every single time I see some ignorant player here complaining about TES not being a true TES game I / facepalm and /sigh.
It cannot be a FFA, fully customizable, go anywhere kind of game you want. The reasons should be obvious but ill spell it out anyway.
It cannot be FFA because people are stupid and would just go around killing/attacking every NPC they can. Towns would be cleared or under constant attack by idiots who get a kick out of annoying people.
You cannot just go anywhere and do anything because the levels dont and cannot scale with your level in ESO. Many people of different levels can be in that same zone/cave youre in.
You cannot customize the entire characters spec because there has to be some semblance of balance between players. As many did with Skyrim, they became practically invincible while others were gimped.
Other than that I dont see any differences between the 2.The game plays very much like an ES game despite the necessary differences. Yet another reason why the "this is nothing like Skyrim" crowd gets ignored/flamed (or should be) just as much as the "WoW clone" crowd.
Except it is an Elder Scrolls game. A game where the fundamental expectations conflict with many aspects of the design is a problem. It's been pointed out by more than one reviewer, and it has been noticed by enough people that it keeps coming up.
It keeps coming up from Skyrim players. Yes, Skyrim really grew the popularity of ES but you can tell that they're Skyrim players because they have no perspective in their expectations because their point of reference stems from a singular title in the series.
There were major changes that were good/bad between games. The loss of creating your own spells, that was sad. But NPC's got their own lives. Combat changed between all of them, skill systems changed, conversation mechanics changed. Really, the IP is the one thing keeping them together.
So yes, ESO is not Skyrim online. Skyrim is not Morrowind either. But they're all Elder Scrolls games. It doesn't matter how many reviewers point out the same irrational view. Just because many people share a nonsensical idea doesn't make it correct. Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy and will remain as such.
None of that changes people finding this to be an issue. However, on the subject of "irrational views", your view isn't any more rational or valid than theirs. Because they are all opinions.
What I stated above isn't just about ESO. Any game that creates a set of expectations that diverge significantly from what the game delivers is going to have issues with the people who had those expectations. The only variation between games is how many people actually see that difference between their own expectations and what the game delivers.
With ESO, that gap seems to be common enough that it continues to come up in conversations, not only on these forums but is also noted by people reviewing the game.
Here's a blurb from advertising for the game:
Return to Tamriel in The Elder Scrolls Online, the latest chapter of the award-winning series, and bring the legendary experience online for the first time. Explore the vast world with friends or embark upon an epic adventure alone — the choices you will make will shape your destiny.
ZOS is going out of their way to create a connection between the experience of playing an Elder Scrolls game and playing ESO. They are selling the game based around the connection. If the game doesn't have the experience of playing an Elder Scrolls game, then they are going to get push back.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Gravehill I agree 100%. "Well yeah it isn't as good as Skyrim, but it's an MMO so it has to cut corners!!!!!!!"...well then why not go play Skyrim? That argument is completely ridiculous
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".
I have the impression that you haven't played the game - is this correct? Or did you try the beta and quit? Because you're making blanket assertions that are being strongly disputed by ES fans who have played both the single player and MMO games.
Oh look, it's a "Well you know what they say" argument. So, exactly who are "they" and exactly what are they saying? (The ES fans who are strongly disputing MY blanket assertions...as if)
Otherwise, I can make a "they say" argument too, only I don't have to since I can go get the references from the people who are saying the opposite.
Since you didn't answer the direct question I'll take that as a tacit admissions that you're talking about a game you haven't played. Your entire post was "They made a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP." This is a meaningless pronouncement without details, The entire thread is filled with specific points - the quest system is very similar to the SP games; skills get better as you use them; there is a lot of written lore, very similar to the SP games; there is a ton of exploration; a deep crafting system; etc, Now, granted, there are some items that don't translate well to a MMO, but to raise those to a sweeping claim about the heart and soul of the IP (without even bothering to name them!) is pretty extreme.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
Well I came in here to say pretty much what this poster said, save perhaps "enjoying ESO and plan on..." because I don't actually own it. I just liked what I played of it and might buy it later in the year when the price goes down. But yeah, generally I didn't care for Skyrim anyway, it was just a big beautiful world that I got to experience alone. Overrated even then, in my opinion. I just like MMO's better than SP games. That's why I dismiss the argument. And I will continue to dismiss it. If it was too much more like Skyrim, it wouldn't be an MMO.
Originally posted by rodingo I've said it before and I will say it again. If ZOS couldn't have figured out how to make ESO like the other Elder Scrolls game, then they should have waited to figure out how. It's painfully obvious this isn't Skyrim/Morrowind/Oblivion online, however those games had way more in common with each other than ESO has with any of them. Imagine if one could actually say, "ESO is just like Skyrim/Morrowind/Oblivion online!". But that's the problem, it's nothing like those games because it has been watered down and shoehorned into a format that it never was intended for. I wouldn't be surprised if Todd Howard already gave Matt Firor the, "I told you so..." speach behind closed doors. Of course it wasn't Todd Howard's decision for ESO and Matt was given the difficult task of being the director and trying to convert a well established single player IP into something that resembled DAOC. This is just a case of big ZeniMax Media Inc. trying cash in the MMO money train. Is that a sin? Of course not, however now they have to deal with this game just like id's Rage. What's next from Bethesda? A Doom MMO?
Why do you think they even tried to fugure it out?
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
Well I came in here to say pretty much what this poster said, save perhaps "enjoying ESO and plan on..." because I don't actually own it. I just liked what I played of it and might buy it later in the year when the price goes down. But yeah, generally I didn't care for Skyrim anyway, it was just a big beautiful world that I got to experience alone. Overrated even then, in my opinion. I just like MMO's better than SP games. That's why I dismiss the argument. And I will continue to dismiss it. If it was too much more like Skyrim, it wouldn't be an MMO.
I don't think Skyrim was overrated. It was an amazing open world RPG. NOw based on your argument, you will not like any RPG just because it's singleplayer. That's fine, you like MMOs. Play that.
In my opinion MMOs let you share your world with others but there are significant drawbacks - e.g. non-interactive world, limited ability to have epic quests which have a real consequence and which can impact the entire world and the rest of the storyline, overall poor graphics compared to their single-player equivalents etc. The main thing is you can't do crazy stuff in your MMO because so many people are sharing the same world with you.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It is always the same. 'Skyrim Online is not possible because all npc's would be dead' etc etc. Of course you have to make changes when turning an ES game into a MMO. But that is no reason for some of the completely unnecessary design choices that Zenimax made. Zenimax went the easy route imo.
1. There is no need to divide a MMO world into levels.
- ESO obviously can't make the world level with you like in Oblivion/Skyrim. But instead of just making the old cookie cutter divide the world into lvl brackets solution, they could have got rid of levels alltogether. This has been done before (SWG preNGE and Ultima Online as example). This would be the logical choice because lvls are already quite meaningless in Skyrim.
2. There is no need to make quest completion grant most of the experience needed for progression.
- This ties in with the feel of freedom in Skyrim. In Skyrim the quests don't give experience. Mobs don't even give experience. It is using your abilities that progresses you. This is also why character progression in Skyrim feels so intuitive. Because you progress in the abilities and activities that you prefer. This also makes it possible that you can do whatever quest or none at all if you prefer. And go wherever you want.
These 2 design choices are the main reason why ESO feels like the next lineair quest world and why part of the Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind players miss the needed freedom of an Elder Scrolls world. I specifically leave out older ES games because its those 3 last ones that made the series really popular.
Yes, the lore is there. But the lore alone is not the reason why ES games nowadays are so popular. Freedom of developing your character and go about your own business in that virtual world are at least as important for the popularity of these series. Things that are sorely missing or unnecessary compromised in ESO.
I think you nailed it with those 2 points. But to respond to the part in red, after thinking about it, isn't it actually possible?
ESO uses heay phasing tech, so in the open world, from my time in beta atleast, when you went in a certain branching quest line direction, some players wouldn't see what you see because you're in a different phase.
Why not apply that into killing every npc, steal every item, upset every village, etc, etc, like in Skyrim? Combined with a level-less, zoneless world, expect Cyrodiil, and more focus on exploration with quests beign just a side activity, i think ESO could feel more TES like, both in lore and mechanical terms.
So if someone wants to kill everyone in Tamriel, go ahead, others players that didn't chose it simply wouldn't see it.
Seems to me there is a lot of negativity towards this game because it really doesn't play much like an Elder Scrolls game at all.
It stems from many factors. Believing as a consumer you have no power and just must accept. Just plain not caring and wanting an MMO no matter what the reason and lastly, not being able to form a remotely decent argument in favor of something.
You will note that the people here that most adamantly defended the reason to split the game world to have race/faction locks are the same people that defended the idea to allow a way around it with pre-orders. What they stand for is meaningless, just defending whatever is all that matters.
When you break it all down, in the right hands this game could have had an open world, a true classless system, combat that actually stands out with hard hitting melee and a spell system not out of some Nintendo game for kids and even a way to create quests/dungeons in game with a foundry like tool for the TES modders. Instead, we got a limited game that didn't innovate a thing and brought nothing to the genre at all and doesn't resemble its namesake, it could have even been made without levels so the game world remains fully viable.
Limited game, limited designers vision of what an MMORPG can be.
I love "old school" MMO's and I love Elder Scrolls games.
Frankly after 4 beta weekends it was apparent that ESO is nothing like an Elder Scrolls game. It is WoW or a modern Themepark MMO dressed in the shallow undergarments of an Elder Scrolls game.
Other then the bugs, locales and graphical fidelity there is nothing in the game play that reminds me of what I love about Elder Scrolls. Zone-less, huge, densely dynamic Points of Interests to explore. Engaging quests, non linear game play, open world free roam world. The ability to do what I want where I want. Player Housing. Superb crafting. Classless skill based progression.
The list goes on and on. While there might be enough of an Elder Scrolls game there for you, there isn't enough there for me. And what is there reminds me all to much of the linearity of a modern Themepark MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
Comments
I look at this game as an mmo paying tribute to the Elder Scrolls, that way I don't set up boundaries from which I can either enjoy the game or not. It doesn't have to be just like the single player games, I enjoy seeing the characters and the geography and lore.
Although last night a song from Oblivion came on when I was playing and I got a huge urge to go play that instead.
I have the impression that you haven't played the game - is this correct? Or did you try the beta and quit? Because you're making blanket assertions that are being strongly disputed by ES fans who have played both the single player and MMO games.
I wonder if these people making up these type of topics actually are ES fans. Reason is they speak about the linear quest lines?? As a ES fan and MMORPG fan (overall a gamer) I find it wierd to see these "so-called" ES fan letting the game hold their hand. Then again we seem to live in a time where they want it all and want it now so they GRIND themselfs to boredom.
I however like with any ES game take my time, sometimes my playtime consist only about exporing/gathering/harvesting, other times I like to be immersed with it's lore (quests), other times I just craft allot. Sometimes my playsession is inventory/resource management (4 characters). Then I have moments I truly want to gain that new level because of new crafted gear/weapons. Then I have my trade sessions etc....
YEAH ESO is truly a ES game to me mainly due to how the game works. Obviously I can do above things in a any MMO, but to me it's the presentation of ESO that makes this a ES games.
EDIT: To the person below. I am glad I know and understand the differences between a singleplayer game and a MMO/MMORPG.
So I am glad this isn't Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim online, because turning those games into MMO/MMORPG but be as is but with more people in it it will be a very boring and short lived experiance for sure.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
This is just perfect.
Haiku won't make sense.
Not a good poet.
the red part +1 they sold out to the trendies just to make a quick buck..do i blame them no..imo morrowind was one of the greatest ever ..but i do enjoy TESO for what it is and not for what someone thinks it should be..did they sell out to make this mmo..yah probly but its a good game unlike the last 2
I also think Morrowind was the high point of this series but I wouldn't call Oblivion or Skyrim bad games by any measure just not on the caliber of Morrowind.
I will say I have put a lot more hours into ESO in the past month than I did into Skyrim and Oblivion the first month they were out and total hours played may very well end up being Morrowind, ESO, Skyrim, Oblivion the way things are going. I would have to play for a long time to pass the hours I poured into Morrowind but if I really dig the Adventure zones and if Zenimax can keep new content coming I might pass even that game in time. Really what is a few thousand hours of play time in a MMO like this?
Oh look, it's a "Well you know what they say" argument. So, exactly who are "they" and exactly what are they saying? (The ES fans who are strongly disputing MY blanket assertions...as if)
Otherwise, I can make a "they say" argument too, only I don't have to since I can go get the references from the people who are saying the opposite.
I am sure TES V will have nothing to do with Skyrim. It's not like TES V and Skyrim aren't the same game right?
TES I - Arena
TES II - Daggerfall
TES III - Morrowind
TES IV - Oblivion
TES which has nothing to do with other TES games - Skyrim
TES V - To be released
How can you say that Skyrim has nothing to do with Oblivion and Morrowind? They have the exact same principle - a free open world where you can go anywhere, all have a skills based progression system, have a very similar dungeon exploration and letting you open up/pick up almost everything you see. The really big difference between Skyrim/Oblivion and Morrowind/Arena/Daggerfall, is that in the last 2 TES games they have quest markers and tell you where you need to go. Morrowind/Daggerfall/Arena literally laugh at you and tell you to go read your quest log.
Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind have a lot in common. ESO is based in the Elder Scrolls Universe but is an MMO which is very different to the iconic TES series.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I didn't call Skyrim "Elder Scrolls V" in another thread and got told I had insulted the entire Elder Scrolls community. That's the kind of logic you have to take into account here.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes Arena, I always forget that one cause I never played it. I hadn't started playing PC games at that point. I never revisited it.
ESO is open world, on a map by map level. If you compare apples to apples - One map to one map, then they're both open and free. You can roam the map, do quests in any order and basically just do what you would do in the single player games. But people are comparing ESO on a macro scale 1 faction (4 zones per / 12 maps + Cyrodiil) vs 1 map. And they ask why it's not completely 100% free roam.
I get the desire to have that, and you won't find me saying I wouldn't have liked it either. But at least realize that ZOS took two concepts, the free roaming open world, allowed it to exist in each map and the MMO style zones by level and merged them. Quite well too. In each map, you feel very free, and because you spend so much time on each map, it doesn't feel that limiting.
None of that changes people finding this to be an issue. However, on the subject of "irrational views", your view isn't any more rational or valid than theirs. Because they are all opinions.
What I stated above isn't just about ESO. Any game that creates a set of expectations that diverge significantly from what the game delivers is going to have issues with the people who had those expectations. The only variation between games is how many people actually see that difference between their own expectations and what the game delivers.
With ESO, that gap seems to be common enough that it continues to come up in conversations, not only on these forums but is also noted by people reviewing the game.
Here's a blurb from advertising for the game:
Return to Tamriel in The Elder Scrolls Online, the latest chapter of the award-winning series, and bring the legendary experience online for the first time. Explore the vast world with friends or embark upon an epic adventure alone — the choices you will make will shape your destiny.
ZOS is going out of their way to create a connection between the experience of playing an Elder Scrolls game and playing ESO. They are selling the game based around the connection. If the game doesn't have the experience of playing an Elder Scrolls game, then they are going to get push back.I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Since you didn't answer the direct question I'll take that as a tacit admissions that you're talking about a game you haven't played. Your entire post was "They made a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP." This is a meaningless pronouncement without details, The entire thread is filled with specific points - the quest system is very similar to the SP games; skills get better as you use them; there is a lot of written lore, very similar to the SP games; there is a ton of exploration; a deep crafting system; etc, Now, granted, there are some items that don't translate well to a MMO, but to raise those to a sweeping claim about the heart and soul of the IP (without even bothering to name them!) is pretty extreme.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
Well I came in here to say pretty much what this poster said, save perhaps "enjoying ESO and plan on..." because I don't actually own it. I just liked what I played of it and might buy it later in the year when the price goes down. But yeah, generally I didn't care for Skyrim anyway, it was just a big beautiful world that I got to experience alone. Overrated even then, in my opinion. I just like MMO's better than SP games. That's why I dismiss the argument. And I will continue to dismiss it. If it was too much more like Skyrim, it wouldn't be an MMO.
Why do you think they even tried to fugure it out?
1. Make some game 2. call it ES Online 3. Caching
Simple
I don't think Skyrim was overrated. It was an amazing open world RPG. NOw based on your argument, you will not like any RPG just because it's singleplayer. That's fine, you like MMOs. Play that.
In my opinion MMOs let you share your world with others but there are significant drawbacks - e.g. non-interactive world, limited ability to have epic quests which have a real consequence and which can impact the entire world and the rest of the storyline, overall poor graphics compared to their single-player equivalents etc. The main thing is you can't do crazy stuff in your MMO because so many people are sharing the same world with you.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I think you nailed it with those 2 points. But to respond to the part in red, after thinking about it, isn't it actually possible?
ESO uses heay phasing tech, so in the open world, from my time in beta atleast, when you went in a certain branching quest line direction, some players wouldn't see what you see because you're in a different phase.
Why not apply that into killing every npc, steal every item, upset every village, etc, etc, like in Skyrim? Combined with a level-less, zoneless world, expect Cyrodiil, and more focus on exploration with quests beign just a side activity, i think ESO could feel more TES like, both in lore and mechanical terms.
So if someone wants to kill everyone in Tamriel, go ahead, others players that didn't chose it simply wouldn't see it.
It stems from many factors. Believing as a consumer you have no power and just must accept. Just plain not caring and wanting an MMO no matter what the reason and lastly, not being able to form a remotely decent argument in favor of something.
You will note that the people here that most adamantly defended the reason to split the game world to have race/faction locks are the same people that defended the idea to allow a way around it with pre-orders. What they stand for is meaningless, just defending whatever is all that matters.
When you break it all down, in the right hands this game could have had an open world, a true classless system, combat that actually stands out with hard hitting melee and a spell system not out of some Nintendo game for kids and even a way to create quests/dungeons in game with a foundry like tool for the TES modders. Instead, we got a limited game that didn't innovate a thing and brought nothing to the genre at all and doesn't resemble its namesake, it could have even been made without levels so the game world remains fully viable.
Limited game, limited designers vision of what an MMORPG can be.
I love "old school" MMO's and I love Elder Scrolls games.
Frankly after 4 beta weekends it was apparent that ESO is nothing like an Elder Scrolls game. It is WoW or a modern Themepark MMO dressed in the shallow undergarments of an Elder Scrolls game.
Other then the bugs, locales and graphical fidelity there is nothing in the game play that reminds me of what I love about Elder Scrolls. Zone-less, huge, densely dynamic Points of Interests to explore. Engaging quests, non linear game play, open world free roam world. The ability to do what I want where I want. Player Housing. Superb crafting. Classless skill based progression.
The list goes on and on. While there might be enough of an Elder Scrolls game there for you, there isn't enough there for me. And what is there reminds me all to much of the linearity of a modern Themepark MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Ofc Eso isnt like Skyrim...
In Skyrim you have Sneak, and could get "an arrow in the knee"
but in Eso you get an arrow above your head and Stealth, you get totally invisible.
I would call that progress
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+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me