Primary skills start higher and are much easier to level than Major, Minor, or Misc. It is flatly untrue that you could level whatever you wanted to however you wanted to. When you advance enough of the Primary / Major skills you leveled up and your stats went up depending on what category the skills were. Ditto Morrowind, Ditto Oblivion. Daggerfall let you trade off character power against difficulty of leveling, which was removed in Morrowind. There has been a steady winnowing of skills during the series, and stats were dropped in Skyrim (e.g. before you had endurance, etc. which modified health, stamina, magica...) The biggest loss was the ability to create custom spells. Alchemy was very freeform; ESO is close to Morrowind there (poisons came after that.)
In Skyrim you leveled up with a broader pool of skills, but the underlying idea was the same - that your character level was important.
In ESO your skills go up both as you practice things and as a reward for completing quests (books are a secondary source of skillups in all of them.)
This is far, far from some revolutionary difference - the difference from Skyrim to the precursors is actually a lot bigger than the change from ESO to Skyrim.
So people asking for an experience without leveling are asking for something that has never been true in any Elder Scrolls game.
And the pure skillup system had documented pathologies - as in, you had to go and repetitively do silly things to level skills up, like letting a mudcrab hit you over and over to level up armor. ES games had laughably broken economies and are much easier than other single player games because you can create god mode armor, weapons, etc. unless you house-rule things.
So, whatever the "not an Elder Scrolls" crowd is talking about, it isn't actual Elder Scrolls games. And some of the missing things are absolutely improvements (ESO is much more challenging and balanced than any of the SP games ever were, for example.)
Hmm. Well, I think Zenimax and Bethesda fell into the trap of "it has to be different" when designing the game. I just read an article about Destiny (which looks awesome by the way) and the reviewer who spent 45 minutes in game playing it said (I'm paraphrasing) "they are giving new names to existing game aspects". That attitude is pervasive throughout the game reviewer realm, and maybe to some extent, the players as well. (Not like they can't be both, though.) Either way, this perceived need to come up with something truly revolutionary extends budgets far beyond need and stretches good developers past smart, proven gameplay elements into pioneering new realms of mediocrity. I played in TESO beta and just wasn't impressed. It's like they tried so hard to be new and inventive, but it ended up being bland. It's like making a dish and being so worried about the patrons liking it that you don't put in any spices - the good ones most people like, the ones that have made other dishes popular. But as they near the end of preparation, they go "oh, crap, we don't have any spices!" Then they either salt the thing to death or just leave it bland. Now it's easier to come back from a bland game - which Zenimax may do or already be doing - but it's hard to believe that with all that I've read on the Web from current players. The too-much-salt scenario can spell disaster, but I don't think that's where TESO is.
I truly hope that they make TESO into something awesome. I'm a HUGE Skyrim fan and really hope that the franchise lives on both in TES6 (please, Bethesda?) and TESO.
Originally posted by Gravehill I agree 100%. "Well yeah it isn't as good as Skyrim, but it's an MMO so it has to cut corners!!!!!!!"...well then why not go play Skyrim? That argument is completely ridiculous
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".
I have the impression that you haven't played the game - is this correct? Or did you try the beta and quit? Because you're making blanket assertions that are being strongly disputed by ES fans who have played both the single player and MMO games.
Oh look, it's a "Well you know what they say" argument. So, exactly who are "they" and exactly what are they saying? (The ES fans who are strongly disputing MY blanket assertions...as if)
Otherwise, I can make a "they say" argument too, only I don't have to since I can go get the references from the people who are saying the opposite.
Since you didn't answer the direct question I'll take that as a tacit admissions that you're talking about a game you haven't played. Your entire post was "They made a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP." This is a meaningless pronouncement without details, The entire thread is filled with specific points - the quest system is very similar to the SP games; skills get better as you use them; there is a lot of written lore, very similar to the SP games; there is a ton of exploration; a deep crafting system; etc, Now, granted, there are some items that don't translate well to a MMO, but to raise those to a sweeping claim about the heart and soul of the IP (without even bothering to name them!) is pretty extreme.
I am talking about a game I haven't played. So, now all you have to do is show me where I am talking out of my ass. Should be easy enough. All you need to do is show me where the "heart and soul" of this game MUST be experienced 1st hand and cannot be conveyed through any and all forms of media by others who have. If you can do that, I'll gladly accept your position. No, I take that back, you know what? Let's just go with your position. Let's make it a given. I don't know what I am talking about.
So then, your turn to answer the question. Who is strongly disputing my blanket assertions? See, I don't think there are fans Strongly disputing my blanket assertions. Not mine anyway. I think you made that up. Unless those "blanket assertions" aren't really mine to begin with. And what the fans are really disputing are "blanket assertions" that have been expressed all along by numerous people. Either way, you are wasting your efforts trying to silence me.
See, I'm all about the point of a matter and not who says it. That is, if there is any reality to the statement. And since I am not alone, you can't just deal with me, you have to deal with the statement itself or you waste your time. Why? Because I'm not fooling myself to thinking my opinion matters. It doesn't If I echo Sheeple's opinion so what? If I voice a well founded and solidly formulated and constructed opinion, so what? Neither matter. What matters is whether or not that opinion is still out there. and in this case, I think you have already indicated that it is with your comment about fans disputing it.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Originally posted by kabitoshin They should of made it a non-level based game so that you could have the freedom you have in the SP games.
What about having levels restricts freedom? I think what you're referring to is the scaling aspect of Skyrim rather than levels. Heck, Skyrim has levels. But the truth is that you could go anywhere, do about anything... If that's what you are saying, then I wholeheartedly agree. I've said it before - not in so many words - that Zenimax and Bethesda shoehorned a TES game into an MMO. They didn't take the best from MMOs or TES games, so we're left with a bland, so-so MMOTES.
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
if someone made a round flat bread, used a white sauce instead of red and had cut fruit on it, baked it, can it still be called a Pizza? Better yet, should we accept the fact they call it a Pizza?
Once a point is passed in terms of changes, you need to start questioning even calling it the same thing. Similarities are there but one has to question if the really has anything but much of the lore of TES in it, but outside of it, that's it. The heart of it is gone which is not something that can be said about the single player games, the heart was always there.
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
That's kind of subjective dont you think? If I say they do, am I wrong? If I say they don't Am I right?
But I will say that it's been no secret from the beginning of this game's development ZM was going after 3 realm PVP. Borrowing the ES name to associate it to a new generation DAOC game. Everyone who reviews the game says the PVP is the best part. Well, I know you cannot have PVP in a single player game, but PVP was the main focus from the get go, then the ES IP was probably not the best choice. To say nothing of other areas they differ.
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
if someone made a round flat bread, used a white sauce instead of red and had cut fruit on it, baked it, can it still be called a Pizza? Better yet, should we accept the fact they call it a Pizza?
Once a point is passed in terms of changes, you need to start questioning even calling it the same thing. Similarities are there but one has to question if the really has anything but much of the lore of TES in it, but outside of it, that's it. The heart of it is gone which is not something that can be said about the single player games, the heart was always there.
That's a really good question. It depends on if that new culinary creation is distinct enough to say it came from "So and so's Pizzeria". You can get a lot of diverse dishes at most restaurants, from appetizers to dessert. <begin devil's advocate> But should we knock the dessert or the appetizer or the pasta because it's not a pepperoni pizza? </end devil's advocate>
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
That's kind of subjective dont you think? If I say they do, am I wrong? If I say they don't Am I right?
But I will say that it's been no secret from the beginning of this game's development ZM was going after 3 realm PVP. Borrowing the ES name to associate it to a new generation DAOC game. Everyone who reviews the game says the PVP is the best part. Well, I know you cannot have PVP in a single player game, but PVP was the main focus from the get go, then the ES IP was probably not the best choice. To say nothing of other areas they differ.
BAM, you got it. That question is very subjective and I don't necessarily see it boiling down to 'yes' or 'no'. But for the sake of argument, don't you think that there are situations where there are games with an IP in name only and others that fully represent the legacy of that IP? And if either of those scenarios is possible, then both sides of this discussion are potentially right. I just tend to think that compared to Skyrim, TESO is NOT TES. But if you accept that it on it's own, it could still be a TES game, just different from what we've known.
That's a really good question. It depends on if that new culinary creation is distinct enough to say it came from "So and so's Pizzeria". You can get a lot of diverse dishes at most restaurants, from appetizers to dessert.
Cheers,
insanex
Awe, why did you edit out the last part I was going to reply to!
And to it, Yes, if they are still going to call it that even though it no longer is, I would call them out on it. If you are going to call your product a peperoni pizza and not have peperoni, cheese and pizza sauce on it...call it something else, because it isn't a peperoni pizza!
That's a really good question. It depends on if that new culinary creation is distinct enough to say it came from "So and so's Pizzeria". You can get a lot of diverse dishes at most restaurants, from appetizers to dessert.
Cheers,
insanex
Awe, why did you edit out the last part I was going to reply to! And to it, Yes, if they are still going to call it that even though it no longer is, I would call them out on it. If you are going to call your product a peperoni pizza and not have peperoni, cheese and pizza sauce on it...call it something else, because it isn't a peperoni pizza!
Good point, but did they really push TESO the same way they pushed Skyrim when all we knew was Oblivion? I'm just wondering if expectations for TESO to be Skyrim Online are overblown....
I think that complaining that "It isn't like Skyrim" is irrational. They are not the same game, they shouldn't be alike. It's like complaining that Game of Thrones isn't like Simpsons.
Ummmm, what? It's an Elder Scrolls Game. Skyrim is in the Elder Scrolls Universe. They should be somewhat similar. Your argument makes no sense.
Originally posted by Tbau Awe, why did you edit out the last part I was going to reply to! And to it, Yes, if they are still going to call it that even though it no longer is, I would call them out on it. If you are going to call your product a peperoni pizza and not have peperoni, cheese and pizza sauce on it...call it something else, because it isn't a peperoni pizza!
Good point, but did they really push TESO the same way they pushed Skyrim when all we knew was Oblivion? I'm just wondering if expectations for TESO to be Skyrim Online are overblown....
Cheers,
insanex
first, FYI, from my own perspective I am not comparing it to Skyrim but I know that's the context of the thread.
second, yes they did and even said at one point that TESO is going to be a multi-player TES game and since Skyrim is the latest, most popular and is on everyone mind. Its a given. I actually cringed when TESO was announced because its rare that an existing IP every meets up to expectations by fans of that IP and shouldn't really even be tried.
looking forward to your reply, will be back in an hour, going to go watch last nights Game of Thrones!
I actually didn't like Skyrim, its still on my computer and I might give a go now, but I remember feeling so lonely playing it, I got to lvl 14 I think and quit.
However, I am enjoying ESO and plan on continuing. I have met a bunch of nice people (it took some time to find a group of people who could finish a sentence without saying F%^&, but I did it)
+1 to this ....I really disliked Skyrim and found solo play sucked ...ESO is 10X the value Skyrim was to me
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
That's kind of subjective dont you think? If I say they do, am I wrong? If I say they don't Am I right?
But I will say that it's been no secret from the beginning of this game's development ZM was going after 3 realm PVP. Borrowing the ES name to associate it to a new generation DAOC game. Everyone who reviews the game says the PVP is the best part. Well, I know you cannot have PVP in a single player game, but PVP was the main focus from the get go, then the ES IP was probably not the best choice. To say nothing of other areas they differ.
BAM, you got it. That question is very subjective and I don't necessarily see it boiling down to 'yes' or 'no'. But for the sake of argument, don't you think that there are situations where there are games with an IP in name only and others that fully represent the legacy of that IP? And if either of those scenarios is possible, then both sides of this discussion are potentially right. I just tend to think that compared to Skyrim, TESO is NOT TES. But if you accept that it on it's own, it could still be a TES game, just different from what we've known.
Cheers,
insanex
The taking of the existing IP is done to with the intent to convey something that was established by that IP. It's supposed to pull from the same or similar things that the earlier titles did. It is what ZM is hoping for. They are marketing as if you take your ES experience online now. And yes, we go back to subjectivity, but if there is enough general consensus in the overall population who share the same opinion and if that shared opinion is that the game doesn't convey the spirit of the IP, then that's a failure. Subjective or not. What you end up with is more people who feel like they got caught in a bait and switch.
Wow it sounds like your a die hard mmo fan before your an Elder scrolls fan.
Just to say its a Elder scrolls mmo say you must have not even played one single player Tes. game. Everything he said is spot on. This game is a mess because it tries to make every single player Tes fan and mmo fan happy and does neither very well. Its a game that should have never been made. The next single player Tes game may suffer because of this mess.
Seems to me there is a lot of negativity towards this game because it really doesn't play much like an Elder Scrolls game at all. There is this argument from fans that this is an MMO and it isn't a traditional Elder Scrolls game. I don't see how you can call that original argument invalid just because this is an MMO...
Lots of people (including myself) have been saying for years that The Elder Scrolls games are like MMOs but without all the crap that comes with them. How they could so easily turn Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim into an MMO and it would be the best thing out there, void of all the stupid grinding and linear worlds.
So when they announced an Elder Scrolls MMO, this is exactly what we wanted, we wanted the world to live in, to be this big free open space like the SP games. We wanted a full skill system where you could be what you want without this half arsed bizarre class system they tacked on. We wanted it to be no linear, to just have amazing quests dotted around that you could do at any time for the fun of it. In Skyrim and all the SP games, I just did quests because they were so much fun to do, where as in TESO, they're "run over here and press E" or "go here collect these" or "kill a set numbers of these"... it is so grindy, so linear, the story to the quests are crap because they feel like MMO 1.0 quests but with VO tacked on.
To me it is a perfectly valid argument because essentially what they've done is made a weird mix of themepark MMO and Elder Scrolls and it really achieves neither well. You have this boring linear themepark wolrd where you cannot even see the enemies factions and it is all locked off to levels and basically is a set linear path through a world that shrinks. However there is nothing Massive to it, the world feels so enclosed, not helped by the map design at all. Also though there is no reason to group in the game, no one does it because really it is a SP game is disguise and the only stuff where players are involved is camping mobs you need as well. I tried to play with a friend like I do in any MMO and we couldn't because we always turned invisible to each other and we couldn't complete quests together........ even a coop version of the SP Elder Scrolls games could have achieved this basic functionality.
Are you an MMO fan? You might possibly like it as they're all Solo based themepark games these days. However you cannot invalidate the opinions of who this game should have been for and that is the Elder Scrolls fans. Every single person I've spoken to who is a fan, in real life and on my Steam Friends, they've all said it isn't an Elder Scrolls game and thought it was crap.
Though it is an expensive marketing campaign it seems, all it has done is gotten people back into Skyrim lol.
Hmm..If I can recall right from my time in Skyrim is that ...You did the exact same thing there..Go Here click that ..Pick up that ..Kill him and talk to these guys..
Don't know if the hotkey for picking up stuff was E thou..:) Maybe it was leftclick.
I have quested together with my wife up until lvl 30 now and we had ONE incident of turning invisible, and that was because we CHOSE diffrent answers in the dialogue in that particular quest.
Did you ask yourself or your buddy why you did turn invisible, or is this just something that happened once and you are trying to make it seem like it happens ALL THE TIME /sigh ???
The questing together is perfectly fine...What isn't that great however is ...all the players running around in places where the quest indicate that you are alone in this, like many of the "dreaming" scenarios or the ruins that has been closed of from civilisation for ages etc etc.
Also..There is ..real grouping dungeons..You wont go wrong with those, Spiderclutch , Wayrest Sewers etc etc. And the Craglorn adventure zone will add a huge coop zone.
Im not a great fan of Skyrim, I thought it was hillarious to see your horse and your companion kill a dragon at times, sure you could wander off prescisly where you wanted , but at a price, just as ESO has sacrificed alot for developing a MMO , Skyrim sacrificed alot to become that open World game you praise. It felt silly and awkward and by the time I was level 20 I felt totally invincible (was most of the time) Nothing that came at me was tough, just because I had a sneak button and Arrows.
Wow it sounds like your a die hard mmo fan before your an Elder scrolls fan.
Just to say its a Elder scrolls mmo say you must have not even played one single player Tes. game. Everything he said is spot on. This game is a mess because it tries to make every single player Tes fan and mmo fan happy and does neither very well. Its a game that should have never been made. The next single player Tes game may suffer because of this mess.
Wow sounds like you're a die hard ESO hater,
I've played them all since Arena... this is the best one yet... 'nough said.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's really ironic to see level-scaled content being proclaimed as the heart of Elder Scrolls games. Because the switch to level scaling in Oblivion was probably the single thing that infuriated purists the most, and some of the most popular mods to Oblivion (like Obscura) disabled the level scaling completely.
It's really ironic to see level-scaled content being proclaimed as the heart of Elder Scrolls games. Because the switch to level scaling in Oblivion was probably the single thing that infuriated purists the most, and some of the most popular mods to Oblivion (like Obscura) disabled the level scaling completely.
FYI, Morrowind had scaling. Static scaling, while not Oblivion/Skyrim level of scaling, it was still scaling.
So, since the three most popular TES games had it, its expected that most TES fans would expect it.
Originally posted by Gravehill I agree 100%. "Well yeah it isn't as good as Skyrim, but it's an MMO so it has to cut corners!!!!!!!"...well then why not go play Skyrim? That argument is completely ridiculous
Hardly. They wanted the ES IP. Then proceeded to make a game that does not contain the heart and soul of that IP. Not just Skyrim either. They made a DAOC/GW2 replacement in an ES Skin, and thought the ES title would carry that as long as it maintained a minimum of tie ins. But totally lost what makes ES, "ES".
That's exactly what I was getting at. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not >.>
Comments
Also combat is better in ESO than previous ES games. More depth to the crafting than Skyrim.
Here are the class descriptions in Daggerfall:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Intrinsic_Classes
Primary skills start higher and are much easier to level than Major, Minor, or Misc. It is flatly untrue that you could level whatever you wanted to however you wanted to. When you advance enough of the Primary / Major skills you leveled up and your stats went up depending on what category the skills were. Ditto Morrowind, Ditto Oblivion. Daggerfall let you trade off character power against difficulty of leveling, which was removed in Morrowind. There has been a steady winnowing of skills during the series, and stats were dropped in Skyrim (e.g. before you had endurance, etc. which modified health, stamina, magica...) The biggest loss was the ability to create custom spells. Alchemy was very freeform; ESO is close to Morrowind there (poisons came after that.)
In Skyrim you leveled up with a broader pool of skills, but the underlying idea was the same - that your character level was important.
In ESO your skills go up both as you practice things and as a reward for completing quests (books are a secondary source of skillups in all of them.)
This is far, far from some revolutionary difference - the difference from Skyrim to the precursors is actually a lot bigger than the change from ESO to Skyrim.
So people asking for an experience without leveling are asking for something that has never been true in any Elder Scrolls game.
And the pure skillup system had documented pathologies - as in, you had to go and repetitively do silly things to level skills up, like letting a mudcrab hit you over and over to level up armor. ES games had laughably broken economies and are much easier than other single player games because you can create god mode armor, weapons, etc. unless you house-rule things.
So, whatever the "not an Elder Scrolls" crowd is talking about, it isn't actual Elder Scrolls games. And some of the missing things are absolutely improvements (ESO is much more challenging and balanced than any of the SP games ever were, for example.)
Hmm. Well, I think Zenimax and Bethesda fell into the trap of "it has to be different" when designing the game. I just read an article about Destiny (which looks awesome by the way) and the reviewer who spent 45 minutes in game playing it said (I'm paraphrasing) "they are giving new names to existing game aspects". That attitude is pervasive throughout the game reviewer realm, and maybe to some extent, the players as well. (Not like they can't be both, though.) Either way, this perceived need to come up with something truly revolutionary extends budgets far beyond need and stretches good developers past smart, proven gameplay elements into pioneering new realms of mediocrity. I played in TESO beta and just wasn't impressed. It's like they tried so hard to be new and inventive, but it ended up being bland. It's like making a dish and being so worried about the patrons liking it that you don't put in any spices - the good ones most people like, the ones that have made other dishes popular. But as they near the end of preparation, they go "oh, crap, we don't have any spices!" Then they either salt the thing to death or just leave it bland. Now it's easier to come back from a bland game - which Zenimax may do or already be doing - but it's hard to believe that with all that I've read on the Web from current players. The too-much-salt scenario can spell disaster, but I don't think that's where TESO is.
I truly hope that they make TESO into something awesome. I'm a HUGE Skyrim fan and really hope that the franchise lives on both in TES6 (please, Bethesda?) and TESO.
Cheers,
insanex
I am talking about a game I haven't played. So, now all you have to do is show me where I am talking out of my ass. Should be easy enough. All you need to do is show me where the "heart and soul" of this game MUST be experienced 1st hand and cannot be conveyed through any and all forms of media by others who have. If you can do that, I'll gladly accept your position. No, I take that back, you know what? Let's just go with your position. Let's make it a given. I don't know what I am talking about.
So then, your turn to answer the question. Who is strongly disputing my blanket assertions? See, I don't think there are fans Strongly disputing my blanket assertions. Not mine anyway. I think you made that up. Unless those "blanket assertions" aren't really mine to begin with. And what the fans are really disputing are "blanket assertions" that have been expressed all along by numerous people. Either way, you are wasting your efforts trying to silence me.
See, I'm all about the point of a matter and not who says it. That is, if there is any reality to the statement. And since I am not alone, you can't just deal with me, you have to deal with the statement itself or you waste your time. Why? Because I'm not fooling myself to thinking my opinion matters. It doesn't If I echo Sheeple's opinion so what? If I voice a well founded and solidly formulated and constructed opinion, so what? Neither matter. What matters is whether or not that opinion is still out there. and in this case, I think you have already indicated that it is with your comment about fans disputing it.
This kind of post doesn't really strengthen the case that ESO is a true ES title. In fact it's the same argument but from the other side of the fence. Favoring ESO over Skyrim is the same as favoring Skyrim over ESO. Both are really saying they are nothing alike.
Here's an honest question - I am not baiting here, I'd just like to know - do they have to be alike to both be called in name and actuality TES games?
Cheers,
insanex
What about having levels restricts freedom? I think what you're referring to is the scaling aspect of Skyrim rather than levels. Heck, Skyrim has levels. But the truth is that you could go anywhere, do about anything... If that's what you are saying, then I wholeheartedly agree. I've said it before - not in so many words - that Zenimax and Bethesda shoehorned a TES game into an MMO. They didn't take the best from MMOs or TES games, so we're left with a bland, so-so MMOTES.
Cheers,
insanex
if someone made a round flat bread, used a white sauce instead of red and had cut fruit on it, baked it, can it still be called a Pizza? Better yet, should we accept the fact they call it a Pizza?
Once a point is passed in terms of changes, you need to start questioning even calling it the same thing. Similarities are there but one has to question if the really has anything but much of the lore of TES in it, but outside of it, that's it. The heart of it is gone which is not something that can be said about the single player games, the heart was always there.
That's kind of subjective dont you think? If I say they do, am I wrong? If I say they don't Am I right?
But I will say that it's been no secret from the beginning of this game's development ZM was going after 3 realm PVP. Borrowing the ES name to associate it to a new generation DAOC game. Everyone who reviews the game says the PVP is the best part. Well, I know you cannot have PVP in a single player game, but PVP was the main focus from the get go, then the ES IP was probably not the best choice. To say nothing of other areas they differ.
That's a really good question. It depends on if that new culinary creation is distinct enough to say it came from "So and so's Pizzeria". You can get a lot of diverse dishes at most restaurants, from appetizers to dessert. <begin devil's advocate> But should we knock the dessert or the appetizer or the pasta because it's not a pepperoni pizza? </end devil's advocate>
Cheers,
insanex
BAM, you got it. That question is very subjective and I don't necessarily see it boiling down to 'yes' or 'no'. But for the sake of argument, don't you think that there are situations where there are games with an IP in name only and others that fully represent the legacy of that IP? And if either of those scenarios is possible, then both sides of this discussion are potentially right. I just tend to think that compared to Skyrim, TESO is NOT TES. But if you accept that it on it's own, it could still be a TES game, just different from what we've known.
Cheers,
insanex
Awe, why did you edit out the last part I was going to reply to!
And to it, Yes, if they are still going to call it that even though it no longer is, I would call them out on it. If you are going to call your product a peperoni pizza and not have peperoni, cheese and pizza sauce on it...call it something else, because it isn't a peperoni pizza!
Good point, but did they really push TESO the same way they pushed Skyrim when all we knew was Oblivion? I'm just wondering if expectations for TESO to be Skyrim Online are overblown....
Cheers,
insanex
Ummmm, what? It's an Elder Scrolls Game. Skyrim is in the Elder Scrolls Universe. They should be somewhat similar. Your argument makes no sense.
first, FYI, from my own perspective I am not comparing it to Skyrim but I know that's the context of the thread.
second, yes they did and even said at one point that TESO is going to be a multi-player TES game and since Skyrim is the latest, most popular and is on everyone mind. Its a given. I actually cringed when TESO was announced because its rare that an existing IP every meets up to expectations by fans of that IP and shouldn't really even be tried.
looking forward to your reply, will be back in an hour, going to go watch last nights Game of Thrones!
ESO is a online ES game - Skyrim is a single player ES game.
It's hard to understand that I know.
I know its confusing and everything, but breath deep and calm down.
Breath in....... and out. Breath in....... and out, there you go.
Do you feel better?
If not repeat breathing exercise until you do or fall asleep, when you come too just know that ESO is still an ES game even if you think other wise.
The taking of the existing IP is done to with the intent to convey something that was established by that IP. It's supposed to pull from the same or similar things that the earlier titles did. It is what ZM is hoping for. They are marketing as if you take your ES experience online now. And yes, we go back to subjectivity, but if there is enough general consensus in the overall population who share the same opinion and if that shared opinion is that the game doesn't convey the spirit of the IP, then that's a failure. Subjective or not. What you end up with is more people who feel like they got caught in a bait and switch.
Wow it sounds like your a die hard mmo fan before your an Elder scrolls fan.
Just to say its a Elder scrolls mmo say you must have not even played one single player Tes. game. Everything he said is spot on. This game is a mess because it tries to make every single player Tes fan and mmo fan happy and does neither very well. Its a game that should have never been made. The next single player Tes game may suffer because of this mess.
Hmm..If I can recall right from my time in Skyrim is that ...You did the exact same thing there..Go Here click that ..Pick up that ..Kill him and talk to these guys..
Don't know if the hotkey for picking up stuff was E thou..:) Maybe it was leftclick.
I have quested together with my wife up until lvl 30 now and we had ONE incident of turning invisible, and that was because we CHOSE diffrent answers in the dialogue in that particular quest.
Did you ask yourself or your buddy why you did turn invisible, or is this just something that happened once and you are trying to make it seem like it happens ALL THE TIME /sigh ???
The questing together is perfectly fine...What isn't that great however is ...all the players running around in places where the quest indicate that you are alone in this, like many of the "dreaming" scenarios or the ruins that has been closed of from civilisation for ages etc etc.
Also..There is ..real grouping dungeons..You wont go wrong with those, Spiderclutch , Wayrest Sewers etc etc. And the Craglorn adventure zone will add a huge coop zone.
Im not a great fan of Skyrim, I thought it was hillarious to see your horse and your companion kill a dragon at times, sure you could wander off prescisly where you wanted , but at a price, just as ESO has sacrificed alot for developing a MMO , Skyrim sacrificed alot to become that open World game you praise. It felt silly and awkward and by the time I was level 20 I felt totally invincible (was most of the time) Nothing that came at me was tough, just because I had a sneak button and Arrows.
Wow sounds like you're a die hard ESO hater,
I've played them all since Arena... this is the best one yet... 'nough said.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's really ironic to see level-scaled content being proclaimed as the heart of Elder Scrolls games. Because the switch to level scaling in Oblivion was probably the single thing that infuriated purists the most, and some of the most popular mods to Oblivion (like Obscura) disabled the level scaling completely.
FYI, Morrowind had scaling. Static scaling, while not Oblivion/Skyrim level of scaling, it was still scaling.
So, since the three most popular TES games had it, its expected that most TES fans would expect it.
That's exactly what I was getting at. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not >.>