Originally posted by kitaradKeyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that.
He admitted to not using a single line of code.
Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them.
Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
Scroll down; I later redacted my statement due to my poor reading comprehension.
My bad.
The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract.
Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
Keyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that.
He admitted to not using a single line of code.
Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them.
Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
It really is a contract dispute as the real question here is whether or not he wrote even one line of that code while still under contract with Zenimax. If he did than under a standard contract that code belongs to Zenimax.
Originally posted by kitaradKeyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that. He admitted to not using a single line of code. Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them. Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
Scroll down; I later redacted my statement due to my poor reading comprehension.
My bad.
The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract.
Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
ZeniMax confirms it recently sent formal notice of its legal rights to Oculus concerning its ownership of key technology used by Oculus to develop and market the Oculus Rift. ZeniMaxs technology may not be licensed, transferred or sold without ZeniMax Medias approval. ZeniMaxs intellectual property rights arise by reason of extensive VR research and development works done over a number of years by John Carmack while a ZeniMax employee, and others. ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings.
The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMaxs legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMaxs technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests. EDIT the bolded underlined portion to me implies some form of contract written or verbal. I could be mis-reading again /EDIT
Cool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.
ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Cool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.
ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by AeonbladesCool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
No unfortunately I think Carmacks the poor shclep stuck in the middle of all this. He isn't after all a one man legal dept. EDIT Facebook, OR, and Zen are the ones driving each other over a cliff, he's just the guy screaming in the passenger seat /EDIT
Cool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.
ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
Are you sure their financially sound... personally i don't think they are, all things considered.
Originally posted by AeonbladesCool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
No unfortunately I think Carmacks the poor shclep stuck in the middle of all this. He isn't after all a one man legal dept. EDIT Facebook, OR, and Zen are the ones driving each other over a cliff, he's just the guy screaming in the passenger seat /EDIT
I could see this as well. Poor John, he can hear the bus coming but he can't get out of the way in time.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Originally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by AeonbladesOriginally posted by PhryOriginally posted by AeonbladesCool, looks like ZOS may kill Oculus Rift before Facebook can. I really don't care either way, but this is amusing. Hope they at least get some cash out of this if it was truly stolen, which as much as I trust John Carmack it probably was.ZOS will most likely win this lawsuit, and I hope they do, corporate espionage like this is terrible.
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11 Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now. No unfortunately I think Carmacks the poor shclep stuck in the middle of all this. He isn't after all a one man legal dept. EDIT Facebook, OR, and Zen are the ones driving each other over a cliff, he's just the guy screaming in the passenger seat /EDIT I could see this as well. Poor John, he can hear the bus coming but he can't get out of the way in time. Yea I'm not sure how he felt about the whole FB buyout in the 1st place, if I remember right his original goal was an open source product back in the kick starter days. This seems to be just another kick in the jimmy if he still feels that way.
Originally posted by kitaradKeyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that. He admitted to not using a single line of code. Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them. Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
Scroll down; I later redacted my statement due to my poor reading comprehension.
My bad.
The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract.
Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
ZeniMax confirms it recently sent formal notice of its legal rights to Oculus concerning its ownership of key technology used by Oculus to develop and market the Oculus Rift. ZeniMax’s technology may not be licensed, transferred or sold without ZeniMax Media’s approval. ZeniMax’s intellectual property rights arise by reason of extensive VR research and development works done over a number of years by John Carmack while a ZeniMax employee, and others. ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings.
The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMax’s legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMax’s technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests. EDIT the bolded underlined portion to me implies some form of contract written or verbal. I could be mis-reading again /EDIT
It has nothing to do with any contract Carmack may or may not have had, or what that any contract may or may not allow him to do.
People keep talking about Carmack. The suit has to do with the software that runs OR, not any violation of contract on Carmacks part.
That also doesn't indicate a contract, just that zeni says they have something in writing from lucky that he wouldn't disclose, I would assume, their code to anyone.
Zenimax says its their code running OR, and they were obviously having some dealings with lucky prior to Carmack leaving zenimax. Lucky may have been using zenimax code to run OR, but according to Carmack the code running it right now isn't zenimax code.
It very well could be that Carmack wrote new code when he joined OR, and they stopped using the zenimax code. Zenimax doesn't think they're using new code.
It also sounds like whatever deal zenimax was trying to cut with lucky originally must not have been desirable to him, because he turned it down. Zenimax probably saw the OR as a cash cow and was trying to get control of it on the cheap, now Facebook has it and that's not sitting well with them.
Originally posted by kitaradKeyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that. He admitted to not using a single line of code. Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them. Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
Scroll down; I later redacted my statement due to my poor reading comprehension.
My bad. The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract. Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
this is what Zen says it is Quote: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/216776/Z ... middle.php ZeniMax confirms it recently sent formal notice of its legal rights to Oculus concerning its ownership of key technology used by Oculus to develop and market the Oculus Rift. ZeniMaxs technology may not be licensed, transferred or sold without ZeniMax Medias approval. ZeniMaxs intellectual property rights arise by reason of extensive VR research and development works done over a number of years by John Carmack while a ZeniMax employee, and others. ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings. The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMaxs legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMaxs technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests. EDIT the bolded underlined portion to me implies some form of contract written or verbal. I could be mis-reading again /EDIT
It has nothing to do with any contract Carmack may or may not have had, or what that any contract may or may not allow him to do.
People keep talking about Carmack. The suit has to do with the software that runs OR, not any violation of contract on Carmacks part.
That also doesn't indicate a contract, just that zeni says they have something in writing from lucky that he wouldn't disclose, I would assume, their code to anyone.
Zenimax says its their code running OR, and they were obviously having some dealings with lucky prior to Carmack leaving zenimax. Lucky may have been using zenimax code to run OR, but according to Carmack the code running it right now isn't zenimax code.
It very well could be that Carmack wrote new code when he joined OR, and they stopped using the zenimax code. Zenimax doesn't think they're using new code.
It also sounds like whatever deal zenimax was trying to cut with lucky originally must not have been desirable to him, because he turned it down. Zenimax probably saw the OR as a cash cow and was trying to get control of it on the cheap, now Facebook has it and that's not sitting well with them.
"ZeniMax's dispute with Oculus dates back to early 2012, when Carmack reportedly contacted Oculus Rift creator Palmer Luckey. At this time, Luckey was experimenting with virtual reality headsets with a research group at the University of Southern California. Luckey, now 21, reportedly sent a prototype to Carmack." "Later that year at a "Los Angeles gaming convention," Carmack showed off a modified headset, the same headset that ZeniMax says was "the template for Oculus' Rift headset." The Wall Street Journal references an unspecified YouTube video where Carmack shows off this headset. Though it's not clear which video specifically they mean, Carmack demonstrated a virtual reality headset to numerous publications, including GameSpot sister site Giant Bomb, during E3 2012." He was still under contract at Zen during this period
Originally posted by DMKano I hate these kinds of lawsuits, where ccompanies try to take credit for anything their employees come up with even in their spare time and not using company resources.Interesting they didn't bring this lawsuit up when Occulus Rift wasn't worth squat, now that got acquired for 2 billion - lawsuit!Zenimax needs to realize that gamers hate letigious companies, its not something that generates positive interest.
I do not know any specifics, but according to the link to IGN:
Originally stated by IGN "The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMaxs legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMaxs technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests."
It seems like this has been an ongoing thing that finally exploded.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by kitaradKeyword here is succeeds during his term of employment. Question is how much of Occulus can Zenimax prove was developed while he was working for them.
Since he admitted to using a portion of code owned by Zenimax this can only end one way unless he makes a deal.
He didn't say that. He admitted to not using a single line of code. Zeni isn't filing suit over a breach of contract. They're saying OR uses their code. This entire thing has to do with the software running OR, and zenimax's belief that the code belongs to them. Carmack keeps saying that its all original code.
Scroll down; I later redacted my statement due to my poor reading comprehension.
My bad. The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract. Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
this is what Zen says it is Quote: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/216776/Z ... middle.php ZeniMax confirms it recently sent formal notice of its legal rights to Oculus concerning its ownership of key technology used by Oculus to develop and market the Oculus Rift. ZeniMax’s technology may not be licensed, transferred or sold without ZeniMax Media’s approval. ZeniMax’s intellectual property rights arise by reason of extensive VR research and development works done over a number of years by John Carmack while a ZeniMax employee, and others. ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings. The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMax’s legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMax’s technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests. EDIT the bolded underlined portion to me implies some form of contract written or verbal. I could be mis-reading again /EDIT
It has nothing to do with any contract Carmack may or may not have had, or what that any contract may or may not allow him to do.
People keep talking about Carmack. The suit has to do with the software that runs OR, not any violation of contract on Carmacks part.
That also doesn't indicate a contract, just that zeni says they have something in writing from lucky that he wouldn't disclose, I would assume, their code to anyone.
Zenimax says its their code running OR, and they were obviously having some dealings with lucky prior to Carmack leaving zenimax. Lucky may have been using zenimax code to run OR, but according to Carmack the code running it right now isn't zenimax code.
It very well could be that Carmack wrote new code when he joined OR, and they stopped using the zenimax code. Zenimax doesn't think they're using new code.
It also sounds like whatever deal zenimax was trying to cut with lucky originally must not have been desirable to him, because he turned it down. Zenimax probably saw the OR as a cash cow and was trying to get control of it on the cheap, now Facebook has it and that's not sitting well with them.
"ZeniMax's dispute with Oculus dates back to early 2012, when Carmack reportedly contacted Oculus Rift creator Palmer Luckey. At this time, Luckey was experimenting with virtual reality headsets with a research group at the University of Southern California. Luckey, now 21, reportedly sent a prototype to Carmack." "Later that year at a "Los Angeles gaming convention," Carmack showed off a modified headset, the same headset that ZeniMax says was "the template for Oculus' Rift headset." The Wall Street Journal references an unspecified YouTube video where Carmack shows off this headset. Though it's not clear which video specifically they mean, Carmack demonstrated a virtual reality headset to numerous publications, including GameSpot sister site Giant Bomb, during E3 2012."
It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
All depends whether their claim is true or not.. and whether Zenimax know whether it's true or not.
We don't know.. so saying screw Zenimax for this is blind brainless hate.. you just don't know.
If code was written while Z were paying a salary and some of that code is used in the rift.. then their claim is valid and the guy stole from them. He signed the contract..
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Common contractual clause when working for ANY software developer "All creative work you do while employed by this company is property of the company".
If that clause is in there (and I am pretty sure it is) then he (JC, Lucky or who ever) signed it and accepted it, if so then Zeni have every right to pursue this. So if the software was created while he was employed there, it was probably done on their resources and as such is their property. Even if it wasn't, if it was in any written agreement or contract between the parties then they still have every right to pursue it.
When you sign a contract you accept it in full, in return for that you get the reddies, it is how life works, dont like the contract dont sign it, but once signed it is binding)
Of course the usual hate wagon and pitchforks will roll out but such is life on these forums, "Oh noes it cant be true".
O.R. Sold up.. well merged with Facebook if they took some one elses code with them then thats a big no no, if they didnt then the thing will get cleared up either way. I would expect an out of court settlement on this for an "undisclosed figure" or share issue but it depends how much O.R. and FB contest it.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
Common contractual clause when working for ANY software developer "All creative work you do while employed by this company is property of the company".
If that clause is in there (and I am pretty sure it is) then he (JC, Lucky or who ever) signed it and accepted it, if so then Zeni have every right to pursue this. So if the software was created while he was employed there, it was probably done on their resources and as such is their property. Even if it wasn't, if it was in any written agreement or contract between the parties then they still have every right to pursue it.
When you sign a contract you accept it in full, in return for that you get the reddies, it is how life works, dont like the contract dont sign it, but once signed it is binding)
Of course the usual hate wagon and pitchforks will roll out but such is life on these forums, "Oh noes it cant be true".
O.R. Sold up.. well merged with Facebook if they took some one elses code with them then thats a big no no, if they didnt then the thing will get cleared up either way. I would expect an out of court settlement on this for an "undisclosed figure" or share issue but it depends how much O.R. and FB contest it.
Zenimax isn't suing over any breach of contract. If they were it would be stated in the lawsuit.
The lawsuit claims Carmack stole code belonging to zenimax.
Originally posted by Uhwop Originally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Carmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code.
Originally posted by Uhwop Originally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by UhwopOriginally posted by BMBenderOriginally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software. the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" somethingCarmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code. if so they're idiots, that's the easiest thing to murk the waters over. I tend to doubt they would take on FB's legal team over something that easily masked.
Originally posted by Uhwop It's entirely over the code running the headset. Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
Propriatary tech, intellectual property is not limited to code, it can be software, firmware, hardware, or manufacturing processes among others Even concept if the "modified" headset functions in the same manner as the current OR if the resulting design benefited from lessons learned R&Ding the original set while under contract with ZZen using Zen resources to further R&D.
Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Carmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code.
if so they're idiots, that's the easiest thing to murk the waters over. I tend to doubt they would take on FB's legal team over something that easily masked.
Maybe not.
Something Carmack said makes it sound like the code he created for zenimax never got patented. Both parties will have to prove that the code belongs to them. In particular OR will have to prove that Carmack didn't write the software OR uses while he was still at zenimax. That could be very difficult for them.
Comments
My bad.
The second part of what I wrote is for everyone arguing over what Carmack may or may not be allowed to do based on a contract.
Lot of people don't seem to understand what zenimax is claiming.
It really is a contract dispute as the real question here is whether or not he wrote even one line of that code while still under contract with Zenimax. If he did than under a standard contract that code belongs to Zenimax.
Bren
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}
Quote: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/216776/Z ... middle.php
ZeniMax confirms it recently sent formal notice of its legal rights to Oculus concerning its ownership of key technology used by Oculus to develop and market the Oculus Rift. ZeniMaxs technology may not be licensed, transferred or sold without ZeniMax Medias approval. ZeniMaxs intellectual property rights arise by reason of extensive VR research and development works done over a number of years by John Carmack while a ZeniMax employee, and others. ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings.
The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax. Well before the Facebook transaction was announced, Mr. Luckey acknowledged in writing ZeniMaxs legal ownership of this intellectual property. It was further agreed that Mr. Luckey would not disclose this technology to third persons without approval. Oculus has used and exploited ZeniMaxs technology and intellectual property without authorization, compensation or credit to ZeniMax. ZeniMax and Oculus previously attempted to reach an agreement whereby ZeniMax would be compensated for its intellectual property through equity ownership in Oculus but were unable to reach a satisfactory resolution. ZeniMax believes it is necessary to address these matters now and will take the necessary action to protect its interests.
EDIT
the bolded underlined portion to me implies some form of contract written or verbal. I could be mis-reading again
/EDIT
Or more likely its a last ditch cash grab attempt before Zenimax have to file a chapter 11
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
semi related but gotta wonder at Zenimax
2011: Elder Scrolls vs. Minecraft dev: “scrolls” is our word
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/elder-scrolls-vs-minecraft-dev-scrolls-is-our-word/
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/12/zenimax-media-and-minecraft-developer-mojang-settle-scrolls-lawsuit/
EQ2 fan sites
EDIT
Facebook, OR, and Zen are the ones driving each other over a cliff, he's just the guy screaming in the passenger seat
/EDIT
Are you sure their financially sound... personally i don't think they are, all things considered.
I think what they're trying to say is that they need him back to fix dem ESO buggies of fail
/moreskilledmorehatereceived
Ryoshi1 as Rikimaru
I could see this as well. Poor John, he can hear the bus coming but he can't get out of the way in time.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Haha, I highly doubt that. The company is very financially sound, do some research. More likely John Carmack is a thief if they are actually bringing this to light now.
No unfortunately I think Carmacks the poor shclep stuck in the middle of all this. He isn't after all a one man legal dept. EDIT Facebook, OR, and Zen are the ones driving each other over a cliff, he's just the guy screaming in the passenger seat /EDIT
I could see this as well. Poor John, he can hear the bus coming but he can't get out of the way in time.
Yea I'm not sure how he felt about the whole FB buyout in the 1st place, if I remember right his original goal was an open source product back in the kick starter days. This seems to be just another kick in the jimmy if he still feels that way.
Zenimax is the worst gaming company. EA was never the worst 'company' nor is Zenimax but Zenimax is however the worst gaming company,
If they had the Rift they would such f*** it up.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It has nothing to do with any contract Carmack may or may not have had, or what that any contract may or may not allow him to do.
People keep talking about Carmack. The suit has to do with the software that runs OR, not any violation of contract on Carmacks part.
That also doesn't indicate a contract, just that zeni says they have something in writing from lucky that he wouldn't disclose, I would assume, their code to anyone.
Zenimax says its their code running OR, and they were obviously having some dealings with lucky prior to Carmack leaving zenimax. Lucky may have been using zenimax code to run OR, but according to Carmack the code running it right now isn't zenimax code.
It very well could be that Carmack wrote new code when he joined OR, and they stopped using the zenimax code. Zenimax doesn't think they're using new code.
It also sounds like whatever deal zenimax was trying to cut with lucky originally must not have been desirable to him, because he turned it down. Zenimax probably saw the OR as a cash cow and was trying to get control of it on the cheap, now Facebook has it and that's not sitting well with them.
From my understanding the suit is over the headset not the code
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/report-elder-scrolls-parent-company-seeking-compensation-for-oculus-rift-headset-oculus-calls-claims-ridiculous/1100-6419351/
"ZeniMax's dispute with Oculus dates back to early 2012, when Carmack reportedly contacted Oculus Rift creator Palmer Luckey. At this time, Luckey was experimenting with virtual reality headsets with a research group at the University of Southern California. Luckey, now 21, reportedly sent a prototype to Carmack."
"Later that year at a "Los Angeles gaming convention," Carmack showed off a modified headset, the same headset that ZeniMax says was "the template for Oculus' Rift headset." The Wall Street Journal references an unspecified YouTube video where Carmack shows off this headset. Though it's not clear which video specifically they mean, Carmack demonstrated a virtual reality headset to numerous publications, including GameSpot sister site Giant Bomb, during E3 2012."
He was still under contract at Zen during this period
It seems like this has been an ongoing thing that finally exploded.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It's entirely over the code running the headset.
Wall Street Journal reported that Maryland-based media company ZeniMax Media Inc. has claimed that the intellectual property that runs Oculus Rift was stolen by id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Carmack.
All depends whether their claim is true or not.. and whether Zenimax know whether it's true or not.
We don't know.. so saying screw Zenimax for this is blind brainless hate.. you just don't know.
If code was written while Z were paying a salary and some of that code is used in the rift.. then their claim is valid and the guy stole from them. He signed the contract..
Common contractual clause when working for ANY software developer "All creative work you do while employed by this company is property of the company".
If that clause is in there (and I am pretty sure it is) then he (JC, Lucky or who ever) signed it and accepted it, if so then Zeni have every right to pursue this. So if the software was created while he was employed there, it was probably done on their resources and as such is their property. Even if it wasn't, if it was in any written agreement or contract between the parties then they still have every right to pursue it.
When you sign a contract you accept it in full, in return for that you get the reddies, it is how life works, dont like the contract dont sign it, but once signed it is binding)
Of course the usual hate wagon and pitchforks will roll out but such is life on these forums, "Oh noes it cant be true".
O.R. Sold up.. well merged with Facebook if they took some one elses code with them then thats a big no no, if they didnt then the thing will get cleared up either way. I would expect an out of court settlement on this for an "undisclosed figure" or share issue but it depends how much O.R. and FB contest it.
Carmack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
Zenimax isn't suing over any breach of contract. If they were it would be stated in the lawsuit.
The lawsuit claims Carmack stole code belonging to zenimax.
Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax.
Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR.
If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did.
They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Carmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code.
Carjack was working on software to run a VR headset while he was at zenimax. Zenimax is claiming that that code is what's running the OR. If carjack had violated any contract he may have had with zenimax they would have already sued him, they haven't, nor have they ever said he did. They're accusing him of steeling code. That's what the IP running the OR is, software.
the complaint does not specify "code" firmware/hware can also be argued to "run" something
Carmack confirmed that zenimax is accusing him of stealing the code.
if so they're idiots, that's the easiest thing to murk the waters over. I tend to doubt they would take on FB's legal team over something that easily masked.
Maybe not.
Something Carmack said makes it sound like the code he created for zenimax never got patented. Both parties will have to prove that the code belongs to them. In particular OR will have to prove that Carmack didn't write the software OR uses while he was still at zenimax. That could be very difficult for them.