A Beautiful World - You want a World not a Lobby!

Eronakis

You click the enter button to log in. With great anticipation from looking at the loading screen, your eyes graze at the beauty of a world, where the sun is rising and you can see far as the clippling plane allows. You look around and you see no barriers. You could almost feel the rays of the sun simmering on your armor. You grasp your sword looking straight forward ready to assail on that level 40 hill giant plundering that small village where they repair your armor for free. The world is open, wander! It's time to feel immersed in a world, what an mmorpg should of always been.

Luckily, EQN has some great innovated gameplay elements that are ground breaking and enticing as a player. I believe they're the first mmo that is finally leading us to the right direction of an immersive world.

As an old school mmo player I want to log into a world. I don't want to feel like I am in a lobby with que's entering a dungeon. I don't want to walk into a zone and see random mountains to act as a barrier to restrict travel. Only certain terrains should restrict types of travel or no travel at all. I want to be in an open seamless world where travel feel's immersive. Does anyone want this too?

A map just doesn't make a world. Enriched lore and story arcs help contribute to that as well. I hate to beat the same drum as EQN but for those who are familiar with my game design philosophy, it's very similar to the direction of EQN. When I first heard about those new innovated attributes I squeed in my chair. Then yelled "you sob" that's exactly what I was thinking! Or along those lines.

When you log into a world that means your character is apart of it. Not every character made is a hero. You act as a community in the world. I think great playability for a game is where players can actually create future lore and stories and burn them into the timeline that could significantly alter the world. That could be by a hidden quest simply because a player enjoys exploring. That could be a world event of players deciding to participate or not. A single player could become a world hero. But that would take influence, strategy, skill of that player to accomplish a great feat. A world that gives a player an opportunity to explore hidden areas is a very meaningful gameplay experience.

That is what I believe truly would help players stay connected to an immersive world.

A Beautiful World: http://tinyurl.com/ln2cg9f

This is a revamped world map I have done in CC3. I got some inspiration to start to design again (thanks Game of Thrones). I tried to make it as realistic as possible while keeping some high fantasy elements. I hope it sparks imagination and the intrigue to explore. What are some intriguing points to the world? Based on the World Map would you give the game a try?

Nilden

This is one of the main features I look for in a MMORPG. I'm done with instanced, lobby based, LFD dungeon running. If the world is "B-roll" content that you never visit again instead of being the content, then I'm not interested.

Aelious

Nice work Eronikas and yes I would play in that world. I also would rather play in a virtual world rather than a lobby or have heavy lobby elements. Luckily some of the modern technologies can provide what seems to be a seem less world while allowing for population flexibility. This is mostly in the form of phasing.

I thinks it's possible to create an open environment MMO cheaper than a fully fleshed out one. If there are mechanics in place for players to also build their own content (buildings and encounters) even more so. This still assumes that combat, sound and animations are good. Questing itself is far too inflated in most titles and could be more sparse, even if they did yield a higher reward.

I would love to play an open environment MMO with as little limits on itemization and playing with others as possible.

AlBQuirky

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Originally posted by nilden
This is one of the main features I look for in a MMORPG. I'm done with instanced, lobby based, LFD dungeon running. If the world is "B-roll" content that you never visit again instead of being the content, then I'm not interested.

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Sign me up! Well said. The WORLD is why I play MMORPGS.

Blasphim

Not only would I play an MMO in that world, I would use that map for some PnP as it stirs up memories of the box set maps from TSR, or Wizards, whatever they calling themselves today.

Eronakis

Originally posted by Robokapp

I remember fixing your rivers 4 years ago

 

That lake in North-east...I want to check it out.

Indeed ya did sir. I have came a long way since then haha. I was too stubborn for my old map. Glad I made a new world.

Bladestrom

There's another aspect to virtual worlds that ate very important to make them fun - exotic locations and strong storytelling and lore to make a location interesting - otherwise its just pretty pixels. Totally agree with op

Unknown

For sure. The immersive experience of a seamless world as one of the main features I look for in MMOs. World of WarCraft is a theme park yet managed a seamless world in 2004. Ultima VII and Ultima Online managed long before that. Most modern MMOs consist of small zones separated by load screens. What gives?

This is a major reason I'm looking forward to Elite: Dangerous so much, even though I wouldn't call it a true MMO. A full galaxy with seamless transition between systems, landing on stations and eventually landing on planets, just like the older Elite games.

I'm very much looking forward to what EQN has to offer, especially if the world is also seamless.

Unknown

And I don't mind lobby-based games like Tribes: Ascend or other small scale multiplayer games. It's just that I expect more from the MMO genre, especially if they charge me monthly.

Kirrik

Well done with the map Eronakis, it sure sparks my imagination:)

I totally agree with what you've said as well. The vast open free worlds is what sets the genre apart from others. A world that is an ever evolving entity.

dreamscaper

Yes, with a caveat. This current plague of GPS-maps needs to die in fire.

You're not exploring if you know exactly where you are every single step.

 

But yes, I do want a world, not a lobby.

Cephus404

Based on just the map, no.  I'd have to know a lot more about the world.  If it was just an empty map with nothing significant on it, I would not go exploring because there's nothing to find.  If it's jam-packed with content to consume, then absolutely, but it's not the map, it's the content I'd be drawn to.  If I have to go running 20 minutes across the landscape before anything happens, forget it.

Shaigh

Its gameplay and content that makes the world interesting. What's my motivation to enter the cave I just found that is filled with goblins? Treasure with money and gear? An ancient text? Pest control? An arrow points me in that direction and I get exp and loot once I finished it? 

The real issue with the game world is the streamlined content with quest arrows leading you like a sheep through the world and not the world itself. Sometimes that arrow can be helpful when the directions you got were flawed, but it kills the reason for exploration. The level-based progression forces you to repeat enough points of interest, and the problem is that once you've done enough repetition the poi stopped being interesting. Same thing goes for the village menace.

 

The other problem is the world and other players. What happens to the place once I finished, do everything respawn 5 minutes later? What happens if someone was just ahead of me killing everything, do I have to wait for respawns?

Sometimes instancing is great since it removes the competition and let you experience that goblin king on your own, or possibly with a friend. Used too often and it removes your connection to the world.

 

It was level-based progression that killed every single zone in WoW, and not the instanced dungeons and raids. The problem with swtor was the sterile world and not their story-based instancing.

 

The solution isn't to remove gameplay innovations that clearly have been successful at delivering content, but instead replace them with new gameplay that works even better. You might not have to remove it completely, but instead use it sparsely so that it increases variation without killing the world.

Kangaroomouse

 

I just leave this here.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesY1XssACM

Phry

Originally posted by Shaigh

Its gameplay and content that makes the world interesting. What's my motivation to enter the cave I just found that is filled with goblins? Treasure with money and gear? An ancient text? Pest control? An arrow points me in that direction and I get exp and loot once I finished it? 

The real issue with the game world is the streamlined content with quest arrows leading you like a sheep through the world and not the world itself. Sometimes that arrow can be helpful when the directions you got were flawed, but it kills the reason for exploration. The level-based progression forces you to repeat enough points of interest, and the problem is that once you've done enough repetition the poi stopped being interesting. Same thing goes for the village menace.

 

The other problem is the world and other players. What happens to the place once I finished, do everything respawn 5 minutes later? What happens if someone was just ahead of me killing everything, do I have to wait for respawns?

Sometimes instancing is great since it removes the competition and let you experience that goblin king on your own, or possibly with a friend. Used too often and it removes your connection to the world.

 

It was level-based progression that killed every single zone in WoW, and not the instanced dungeons and raids. The problem with swtor was the sterile world and not their story-based instancing.

 

The solution isn't to remove gameplay innovations that clearly have been successful at delivering content, but instead replace them with new gameplay that works even better. You might not have to remove it completely, but instead use it sparsely so that it increases variation without killing the world.

You can get around some of the 'what about when i've finished an area' kind of thing, by not having it level based at all, one of the great things about SWG, was you could explore the different planets, and die a lot too.. until i trained up enough ranger skills to evade whatever was trying to put me on its dinner menu..  but skill based games are not for everyone, though personally i think that map would work well with a sandbox level-less designed game, personal preference maybe, but i'd like to see it even so. And before people jump in and say but a sandbox means people will be killing each other etc etc.. you don't need to have pvp in a sandbox, they work just as well without as with, or if you have to have it, then make it voluntary, with people flagging for pvp, or whatever. But if you make a game without 'quick' travel teleports etc, then you do tend to encourage people to 'get out there' and explore, they'll probably die a lot, but thats half the fun

Totally agree with the OP though, the World is everything. Game lobbies and instancing all detract from immersion really, and most of the time they just seem like a workaround to overcome obstacles created by having a level based 'themepark'. sometimes you just need to give players the tools and the environment, particularly the environment, and then let them create the 'world', worked pretty well for Eve Online imo..

Besides, i would like to find out what the heck the Attican Wall is built to keep out, im thinking dinosaurs, but, without being able to go there.... Exploration does not have to be instant, it doesn't need to be fast, it just needs to be possible. And a 'World' full of possibilities sounds like a great idea to me

delete5230

Unfortunately we don't have a say, we don't have a choice....Our opinion means nothing here.

Quirhid

Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.

korent1991

this is absolutley huge and I love it

there's just enough sea to venture around to other lands, there's vast and diverse landscape and every part of the map has few interesting spots which stand out and just ask for attention.

I'd love to explore this map.

Like judicium, sunxor, phantom cauldron (sounds and looks interesting, like some kind of a portal), attican wall reminds me of the great ice wall from GOT ( I bet that's the first thing you took from there) and I'd be interested to see what threats are beyond it, zhadex vex looks evil

Lair of gonthos sounds like there might be a massive world boss in there. Moonryn temple reminds me of naxxramas a bit so that'd be interesting to see what's in there. Icexor tier? Worth a visit.

SomeHuman

Originally posted by Quirhid
Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.

I agree with Quirhid.  If the mechanics, "gameplay," of the game were right, I think this world would be fun.  It reminded me of the first time I looked at an Elder Scrolls map.  I also agree that G.P.S. has to go.  Give me a way to buy/craft a compass and a way to buy/craft a map.  That would be a great feature for an explorer class.  You can sell maps of pieces of the world you have explored, where you have marked points of interest, etc.

 

This makes me miss playing tabletop DnD.

korent1991

Originally posted by SomeHuman

Originally posted by Quirhid
Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.

I agree with Quirhid.  If the mechanics, "gameplay," of the game were right, I think this world would be fun.  It reminded me of the first time I looked at an Elder Scrolls map.  I also agree that G.P.S. has to go.  Give me a way to buy/craft a compass and a way to buy/craft a map.  That would be a great feature for an explorer class.  You can sell maps of pieces of the world you have explored, where you have marked points of interest, etc.

 

This makes me miss playing tabletop DnD.

oh yeah, that would be so awesome... you're just thrown into the world without any idea where you are at and you must explore stuff and gather resources like planks to craft a sheet where you can create your own waypoints and mark cities you visit and then you can trade the map with others to form a more complete map and etc, tho I guess this wouldn't last long as soon as people explore the world they'd simply duplicate them and sell them to others who'd want to buy. But still, fun.

Wizardry

It is not a simple yes or no answer because what makes exploration cool is the assets.Most if not all games are now auto generated worlds,so not much if any hand made terrain.

What really surprises is the lack of HIDDEN exploration in games,it is almost nonexistent.I cannot believe there is not one developer that does not have the creative mind to have lots of hidden exploration.So that leads me back to the auto generated worlds and pure lazy or just rushed out products which is pretty much the fact.

Having hidden exploration means the designers have to use movers and particle effects for perhaps exploding walls.I know there has been some lazy ideas like in EQ2 i could swim far under water to a hidden canyon but developers can do better than this.

EQ NEXT could be the first most innovative game to utilize a lot of hidden exploration but somehow i see SOE as being lazy and will not utilize the tech they have at hand to it's fullest but hey let's hope for the best.

Reklaw

Great map, but the map is the least of my worry's, what I would like to know how you plan to fill that map/world with interesting things to do.

I don't mind long travels aslong it has meaning to it, are there discovery's to be made, dungeons/cave, hidden settlements to discover. How many races would life in such a hugh world, and how many can be selected by it's players. Or perhaps it's a al human world?

So while the map looks impressive I think what would be more impressive to be able to fill that world.

 

stayBlind

I hate instanced games that separate the large player base into small 'boxes'.

I do, however, think that MMOs need to have phasing, so that I do not have to interact with a large player base.

stayBlind

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by SomeHuman

Originally posted by Quirhid
Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.

I agree with Quirhid.  If the mechanics, "gameplay," of the game were right, I think this world would be fun.  It reminded me of the first time I looked at an Elder Scrolls map.  I also agree that G.P.S. has to go.  Give me a way to buy/craft a compass and a way to buy/craft a map.  That would be a great feature for an explorer class.  You can sell maps of pieces of the world you have explored, where you have marked points of interest, etc.

 

This makes me miss playing tabletop DnD.

oh yeah, that would be so awesome... you're just thrown into the world without any idea where you are at and you must explore stuff and gather resources like planks to craft a sheet where you can create your own waypoints and mark cities you visit and then you can trade the map with others to form a more complete map and etc, tho I guess this wouldn't last long as soon as people explore the world they'd simply duplicate them and sell them to others who'd want to buy. But still, fun.

I have also thought about maps as items in a game. I think it would be a really cool idea. You could have the lower tier maps be rough drawings of an area, whereas high end expensive and hard to acquire/craft maps could be magical and even offer certain features that the current G.P.S map system does (magical maps could magically show you where you were on the map, etc). Being a cartographer would be super fun I think.

Gamer54321

I have been thinking that if I could design an MMO game, then it would be like this when logging in:

Click shortcut in windows

Entire screen fades to black, now showing a small login input field

Enter login info

The black login screen now fades into the game

alyndale

I would like to begin by thanking you Eronakis for starting this thread.

The "massively multi player" universe isn't imploding. Rather it's evolving. I have thought and have shared these thoughts with my guildies and on various guild forums how I view an intuitive mmo world. I have, at least for me, exhausted my interests for factions and false heroes especially at the beginning of just about every mmo I have tried since 2004. I, for one, am quite "over" all that.

My philosophy of being a part of an mmo experience is just that. Be a part of it; experience it; live it! We have the technology and Lord only knows we have the folks out there like yourself, Erankis, that dream of a vast world to explore. Hopefully, the people over at the San Diego creative campus we call SoE are actually in the midst of creating such a world. I suppose we'll have to wait until this coming August at SoE Live 2014 to maybe, just maybe have some positive news shared with us.

We should move forward. Yes, we can embrace fondly what we first experienced with our "first mmo", but we should move forward. My hope, and put faith here, is that there are some young artists, story writers, designers, code technicians, and many other gaming related "wizards" out there that see opportunities to build a place for all of us. Indeed even ask us to share in that "building" and inventing of a truly wonderful place. It could happen. One only needs to believe, then go out and seek others with similar dreams. Money though, that is the evil that constrains us many times. Money is sadly a truth we must somehow come to grips with. Do we as avid hobbyists have the strength and faith that we might invest this time and money? Well we are starting to see  this happen. Do gamers have the power to change the future of the mmo? Yes, I say we do. We simply need to be a positive, rather than a negative influence on the industry out there.

Your map made me want to go and see what is there. How do these lands appear? What lies ahead? What lurks behind? What makes a hero? Why do factions become united? Can you create a peace after war? Many, many more questions can be and should be asked, if we are to grow, not only as a community, but as gaming engineers...

Thank you Sir Erankis!

/bows with respect

Alyn