Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
While I personally love exploring worlds, after all the MMOs I've played, I've realized that the new MMO worlds out now are not any larger or smaller than the majority of the older gen MMO worlds. To me, I think players feel that the world is small because everything is visible with maps, trackers, mini-maps, and all sorts of UI indicators telling you exactly where to go and how to get to a certain location.
This begs the question, why did developers feel the need to build maps into the UI along with quest trackers and heat zone overlay indicators? To me, I feel that developers built it in to make it more user-friendly for younger audiences to quest and to allow older audiences to save time and feel like they're progressing in a short period of time (since people work and have other real life responsibilities).
But let's say there is no "cartographer" in the game and there is no maps, people would probably not put in the work and just google the maps and look for answers. As a developer, would you want your players to go through that hassle? Hrmm....
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
While I personally love exploring worlds, after all the MMOs I've played, I've realized that the new MMO worlds out now are not any larger or smaller than the majority of the older gen MMO worlds. To me, I think players feel that the world is small because everything is visible with maps, trackers, mini-maps, and all sorts of UI indicators telling you exactly where to go and how to get to a certain location.
This begs the question, why did developers feel the need to build maps into the UI along with quest trackers and heat zone overlay indicators? To me, I feel that developers built it in to make it more user-friendly for younger audiences to quest and to allow older audiences to save time and feel like they're progressing in a short period of time (since people work and have other real life responsibilities).
But let's say there is no "cartographer" in the game and there is no maps, people would probably not put in the work and just google the maps and look for answers. As a developer, would you want your players to go through that hassle? Hrmm....
I would think the developers would actually want the players to look at and enjoy the environments around them. I bet most people know the mini map and arrows far better then the actual world they are traveling around in. There is no doubt in my mind that having a GPS removes the player from actually identifying and enjoying the environment around them. I can to this conclusion after playing through Dark Souls "which has no map or arrows to point the way".
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
Sure .. look at what is around you, put it down on paper, rinse and repeat .. easy and boring. I want no journey, just skip to the dungeon like D3. Don't give me filler for the game.
And given that most games have mini-map features, and they are popular, i would say that most people find cartography boring. Sure there are always some people who like niche stuff. Let them turn off the mini-map, and draw maps to their heart content.
Actually .. D3 is great example .. the fun is not to find your bounty ... the fun is to kill the boss (or whatever) for the bounty.
I would think the developers would actually want the players to look at and enjoy the environments around them. I bet most people know the mini map and arrows far better then the actual world they are traveling around in. There is no doubt in my mind that having a GPS removes the player from actually identifying and enjoying the environment around them. I can to this conclusion after playing through Dark Souls "which has no map or arrows to point the way".
That easy .. make smaller and interesting environment and let people use that in combat. Games like Dishonored and Deus Ex have great levels with lots of things you can do with the environment. Even D3 has destructable stuff, traps and other interactive stuff to make things interesting in the environment.
It is interesting to hide behind a column, or blast it so it can fall down to kill the mob. It is not interesting to just look at scenary. If i want to do that, i buy a post-card.
I would think the developers would actually want the players to look at and enjoy the environments around them. I bet most people know the mini map and arrows far better then the actual world they are traveling around in. There is no doubt in my mind that having a GPS removes the player from actually identifying and enjoying the environment around them. I can to this conclusion after playing through Dark Souls "which has no map or arrows to point the way".
That easy .. make smaller and interesting environment and let people use that in combat. Games like Dishonored and Deus Ex have great levels with lots of things you can do with the environment. Even D3 has destructable stuff, traps and other interactive stuff to make things interesting in the environment.
It is interesting to hide behind a column, or blast it so it can fall down to kill the mob. It is not interesting to just look at scenary. If i want to do that, i buy a post-card.
Everything you say is I could do this in real life. Games mimic real life. That is what they are all about. That's why we have sports games. That is a poor excuse for not using things in a game. I'm not always interested in a small environment. As some people have said we like to explore and we like to look at the scenery. That is part of the experience for us.
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
Sure .. look at what is around you, put it down on paper, rinse and repeat .. easy and boring. I want no journey, just skip to the dungeon like D3. Don't give me filler for the game.
And given that most games have mini-map features, and they are popular, i would say that most people find cartography boring. Sure there are always some people who like niche stuff. Let them turn off the mini-map, and draw maps to their heart content.
Actually .. D3 is great example .. the fun is not to find your bounty ... the fun is to kill the boss (or whatever) for the bounty.
Thanks. I figured you'd say that. We all get it. The type of game design elements I describe in my thread is not for you. Stick to lobby based games. This thread is about people who want a world to be apart of, not a lobby. Thanks for making your point. We get it now.. no need to be redundant any more on these threads.
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
Sure .. look at what is around you, put it down on paper, rinse and repeat .. easy and boring. I want no journey, just skip to the dungeon like D3. Don't give me filler for the game.
And given that most games have mini-map features, and they are popular, i would say that most people find cartography boring. Sure there are always some people who like niche stuff. Let them turn off the mini-map, and draw maps to their heart content.
Actually .. D3 is great example .. the fun is not to find your bounty ... the fun is to kill the boss (or whatever) for the bounty.
I don't know if I enjoy making maps or not, but I prefer to identify where I'm traveling by landmarks instead of maps.
I can't imagine that making maps is easier then killing mobs in most games today. It requires a lot of effort to plan the map out and then make drawings that are appealing/meaningful to people. Neither are easy to do IMO.
I can't imagine that making maps is easier then killing mobs in most games today. It requires a lot of effort to plan the map out and then make drawings that are appealing/meaningful to people. Neither are easy to do IMO.
You haven't played D3 in high difficulty. It is 100x more challenging (and not to mention fun) compared to making maps .. even than in the days of M&M when i use actual grid paper. That is just boring and repetitive.
How hard is it just write down stuff every few steps? Why is that even comparable to tactical combat which requires some thinking (and even meta) and reaction?
But that is not the point .. the point is making map is no fun to me. And i suspect it is no fun to many.
I can't imagine that making maps is easier then killing mobs in most games today. It requires a lot of effort to plan the map out and then make drawings that are appealing/meaningful to people. Neither are easy to do IMO.
You haven't played D3 in high difficulty. It is 100x more challenging (and not to mention fun) compared to making maps .. even than in the days of M&M when i use actual grid paper. That is just boring and repetitive.
How hard is it just write down stuff every few steps? Why is that even comparable to tactical combat which requires some thinking (and even meta) and reaction?
But that is not the point .. the point is making map is no fun to me. And i suspect it is no fun to many.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
As for d3 I'm sure it is pretty hard at later levels but I doubt its harder than making a good map. Combat in a video game anyone can do. I doubt everyone can make a map.
So what about the map it self I posted? I wouldn't mind getting some more feedback on the world.
I like how each race has a starting city, but most of the time only 1-2 of those places are populated later in the game and those starting racial cities are barren. I kind of taken the ESO route and have three starting cities for 10 races. There was different starting areas for each of the races before but something caused them to move their home or they lost their home. I feel like writing some lore so here ya go....
Kael'Tristin "the gate of the north" - First King John Kael and Gorgon Tristin used Kael'Tristin as a keep to ward off the frost giants of the White Waste from plundering the tribes of the forest and the fens. Only races who reside there are allowed freely beyond the gate of the city. Others may pass on their on their own accord. Current King, Emil Tristin is very adamant about those who wonder in the north to bring something back to contribute in the efforts to hold off the frost giant attack.
Races that are housed by Kael'Tristin
Attaru: A bear race that wondered beyond the Northern Gap and are now trapped due to the Eternal Blizzard. The Attaru north of the blizzard are now long forgotten. Large in size, the Attaru are now used as guardians of the north or a hired hand used to track down bounty.
Nausaabi: A small nimble rabbit race that where taken in when their homes were invaded by the Troll & Orc Campaign in the Trollhunt Hills. As of late most Nausaabi have been recruited by the Hands of Shadow, an ancient assassins guild.
Crypt Elf: Risen by the first necromancer, Zenovas Darkmoon to seek revenge when the armies of the first Great War burned his home city of Cambethiel to the ground. Undead with obsidian rime felt skin,the Crypt Elves are frowned upon and rejected in most social circles. Kael'Tristin, the only kingship city took them in and used them in their armies against the frost giant threat.
Felthine "the city of magic" - Pristine colossal marble of elven architecture that breaches the clouds, Felthine rests on a cliff face in the wondrous Morning Shade over looking the Riverlands. Magic was first discovered here in the Age of Kings. Residents of Felthine felt more attuned to the mystical magic auras that would surface. Magic was even used in the architecture to create unnatural spiral shapes to top off the seven towers.
Races that are housed by Felthine
Elves: Pure beauty one would say when gazing upon an elf of noble origin. Elves believe they are all destined to be of noble cause and serve in royal houses. Elves rival the Dwarves in producing stunning architecture.
Dwarf: Legend has it that their home of Tharkanar collapsed to the ground by a woken Mountain Titan in the Iron Mountains. Others believe it was simply a quake. The Dwarves are always seeking new ways to smith the best blade. They hold tournaments each year to determine which blade will be used by Knights of Felthine.
Korelon:Arcanic humans that figured out the riddle to the Vission. Once wondered inside, they were more attuned to magic, ancient magical symbols etched into their changing pigment skin. Korelons are known as the scribes of Magic. They where the first to use magic for destructive purposes.
Taldeum "the city of the cursed" - The south. The Arid misery of the heat didn't draw many to take kingship in the south. Not even royal families wanted to govern. Before the four kingdoms where established, a human from a bakers tribe, Osgard Daenarik of no royal blood was commissioned to govern the south. Many believe because the southern Kingdom didn't initially have royal blood they would be forever cursed. That could explain why races who have a history of misfortune flock there.
Races that are housed by Taldeum
Mu'atan:Humans that vowed their souls to the evil entity Vainspire got more than then were beckoned for. When the Judges came from the heavens to purge the world of evil, these humans turned their back on Vainspire and wanted forgiveness for their sins. Instead Vainspire cursed them by burring them alive dishonorably in tombs wrapped in dark linen. The Mu'atans where given a penance for their sins by the Judges to seek forgiveness. However, if they let revenge and hate consume them they would curse them selves and be forever trapped in mummified bodies.
Velthriss: Stout lizards that stand upright and tall. They come from the Arache Jungle. The Velthriss will defend their jungle and claim that as their land. Velthrissian generals are considered more ruthless than Orc generals. If you question their authority, perceive as week, or even loose a battle and survive you're banished from their ranks and exiled from the jungle to never return. The Velthriss that take refuge in Taldeum are such as these and willing to turn their back on their own kind to rebel against their former leaders.
Jakari: A rare ape race that now dwells within the jungle isles east of Taldeum. Through the ages, the Jakari where a slave race for the Velthrissians in the wars against the humans of Evansmable. The Jakari are now in alliance with the people of Taldeum to preserve their race from extinction. The Jakari are learning how to cease their tension from the banished Velthrissians even though they are allies.
Humans: Humans are the only race that can start from any of the three starting cities. Humans have no obligatory factions and can travel throughout the four kingdoms freely. Humans are also very unpredictable. They are the least trusted race because they will turn on you once they find gain in any endeavor. Prophets believe that Humans are like a wave in the ocean. Sometimes their calm, peaceful and kind and others they are vile, prideful and dishonorable. It's that desire to become a God within them they must control.
I hope at least some of you all will read this. I hope the snippets I provided where decent enough to enjoy the read. Just would like to rail this thread back on the tracks of what it's intended for.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
If only a few people make maps, it is inconvenient to get them. We are talking about games here. Whatever fun is fine, and so what if it is not realistic.
In fact, FANTASY games are not realistic in the first place. You can always put some magic mumbo jumbo to explain why everyone has a mini-map in their head.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
If only a few people make maps, it is inconvenient to get them. We are talking about games here. Whatever fun is fine, and so what if it is not realistic.
In fact, FANTASY games are not realistic in the first place. You can always put some magic mumbo jumbo to explain why everyone has a mini-map in their head.
I agree with you on realism, but I still feel maps/gps detract from the game experience for the other reasons I noted.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
If only a few people make maps, it is inconvenient to get them. We are talking about games here. Whatever fun is fine, and so what if it is not realistic.
In fact, FANTASY games are not realistic in the first place. You can always put some magic mumbo jumbo to explain why everyone has a mini-map in their head.
I agree with you on realism, but I still feel maps/gps detract from the game experience for the other reasons I noted.
Now since the argument is nullified we can stop with the redundant posts Nariusseldon? You're both right in your own mind because you both enjoy two different styles of gameplay. This thread is intended for people who want an immersive world. I understand it's fine to disagree with others who don't and enjoy lobby games instead. Let's re-rail this train
Now people can give some feedback for the map it self and the snippets of lore I provided
I like your map. My own specific points of interest would be Beth Aven (which appears to be an Oasis), Hawthorne, and the Orinion Isles. If it was an MMO with open housing I'd be setting up shop in one of if not all of those three areas.
The Oasis (Beth Aven) has appeal to the crafter/merchant side of me, seems like a good place to setup shop to peddle wares.
Hawthorne has that mountain/frozen tundra appeal.
The Isle to the north, well, I like the remote location and forest area. Seems like a place I'd setup a player house/village/city. Quiet and isolated.
I like your map. My own specific points of interest would be Beth Aven (which appears to be an Oasis), Hawthorne, and the Orinion Isles. If it was an MMO with open housing I'd be setting up shop in one of if not all of those three areas.
The Oasis (Beth Aven) has appeal to the crafter/merchant side of me, seems like a good place to setup shop to peddle wares.
Hawthorne has that mountain/frozen tundra appeal.
The Isle to the north, well, I like the remote location and forest area. Seems like a place I'd setup a player house/village/city. Quiet and isolated.
Thanks for your comments Sevala.
I like how the landmarks on my map spark what they could potentially be. You're exactly right about Beth Aven. It's the merchant's capitol actually. Beth Aven is the only city that allows black market rare items to be sold and traded. Beth Aven also serves as a centralized world bank loaning coin to the four kingdoms. Evansmable, one of the richest cities didn't rival the true wealth of Beth Aven because the merchants of the city don't flatter their architecture with the finest rock or gems.
Hawthrone a large village in the north that serves under the Kael'Tristin Kingdom. The residents of Hawthorne are considered barbaric and have a viking like look to them. This is where melee classes can obtain special armor from the Elk, the Ram or the Snow Leopard armor.
The Orinian Isles are very remote and house a lot of viscous wildlife. It's one of the prominent solo areas for players, especially in higher end gameplay.
I like how the landmarks on my map spark what they could potentially be. You're exactly right about Beth Aven. It's the merchant's capitol actually. Beth Aven is the only city that allows black market rare items to be sold and traded. Beth Aven also serves as a centralized world bank loaning coin to the four kingdoms. Evansmable, one of the richest cities didn't rival the true wealth of Beth Aven because the merchants of the city don't flatter their architecture with the finest rock or gems.
Hawthrone a large village in the north that serves under the Kael'Tristin Kingdom. The residents of Hawthorne are considered barbaric and have a viking like look to them. This is where melee classes can obtain special armor from the Elk, the Ram or the Snow Leopard armor.
The Orinian Isles are very remote and house a lot of viscous wildlife. It's one of the prominent solo areas for players, especially in higher end gameplay.
Your welcome. Seems spot on then.
Setting up a player city/house/village on the remote Isles sounds even better knowing that. That would all be a matter of mechanics though. Either way though, kudos to your map and well laid out thoughts on the areas.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
If only a few people make maps, it is inconvenient to get them. We are talking about games here. Whatever fun is fine, and so what if it is not realistic.
In fact, FANTASY games are not realistic in the first place. You can always put some magic mumbo jumbo to explain why everyone has a mini-map in their head.
I agree with you on realism, but I still feel maps/gps detract from the game experience for the other reasons I noted.
Detracting is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, you want to make your own map but i view the requirement to do so detracting from the core gameplay ... combat & progression.
I like how the landmarks on my map spark what they could potentially be. You're exactly right about Beth Aven. It's the merchant's capitol actually. Beth Aven is the only city that allows black market rare items to be sold and traded. Beth Aven also serves as a centralized world bank loaning coin to the four kingdoms. Evansmable, one of the richest cities didn't rival the true wealth of Beth Aven because the merchants of the city don't flatter their architecture with the finest rock or gems.
Hawthrone a large village in the north that serves under the Kael'Tristin Kingdom. The residents of Hawthorne are considered barbaric and have a viking like look to them. This is where melee classes can obtain special armor from the Elk, the Ram or the Snow Leopard armor.
The Orinian Isles are very remote and house a lot of viscous wildlife. It's one of the prominent solo areas for players, especially in higher end gameplay.
Your welcome. Seems spot on then.
Setting up a player city/house/village on the remote Isles sounds even better knowing that. That would all be a matter of mechanics though. Either way though, kudos to your map and well laid out thoughts on the areas.
Thanks so much on staying on topic and enjoying the world. Did you check out the city and race lore I posted? Wouldn't mind hearing from feedback if you get the chance, if lore is appealing.
Well if theres no map, ppl will just for one in the internet. Look at Mortal Online, sure you can draw stuff and "make maps", but nobody does because its easier to see it online... but its ok, as long as it has no gps it wont detract from the sandbox experience of actually learning to navigate the map thru landmarks, etc do you could actually get lost if u do this wrong.
I think the map is pretty awesome and something I would love to explore.
Couple questions:
Do you have a global version where everything connects and you can potentially sail around the whole world?
If not will you make new continents discovered be expansions?
Do you have any dungeon maps? Cities or towns or any more detailed area maps? Creature habitats or population maps? Crazy 3D elevation maps, weather maps?
I think this is a really solid start but would like to see more!!
Oh and how long did it take you to make and what did you make it with?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I think the map is pretty awesome and something I would love to explore.
Couple questions:
Do you have a global version where everything connects and you can potentially sail around the whole world?
If not will you make new continents discovered be expansions?
Do you have any dungeon maps? Cities or towns or any more detailed area maps? Creature habitats or population maps? Crazy 3D elevation maps, weather maps?
I think this is a really solid start but would like to see more!!
Oh and how long did it take you to make and what did you make it with?
To answer your questions...
No I don't have a global version yet. This map actually is a revamp of a larger world map. The one linked in thread is more of a plausible realistic world map for an mmo versus my other one. With a new map lore will have to be edited and changed.
Yes I actually have 4 expansions planned if this was to make it. I decided instead of showing the whole continent I would have natural barriers that would be an interesting way to block off players from reaching other areas of the continent.
The Attican Wall was built in the Age of Judges to negate the evil that was residing in the current map, as well as to protect something very precious. A faction called the Seseraxian Empire has figured out the secret that is beyond the Attican Wall and at all cost will try to destroy it. Beyond the Attican Wall will be expansion 1.
The Eternal Blizzard is also another natural way to block off the most northern part of the continent. The Blizzard came quickly as it could without warning. Many that go in die. The razor sharp ice easily slices through plate armor. No one knows how the Blizzard began or why. The Eternal Blizzard will be expansion 2.
The Wandering Sands is the third natural blockade. For some reason when you wander there you'll go mad and get lost. Even if it's one mile in. You'll feel dizzy and go blind. There are many suspicions that the Wandering Sands has a magical effect to it. Many speculate it's a mad wizard that governs the sands and the jungles south of the desert, while others say it's Dragon Magic. The Wandering Sands will be expansion 3.
The Fourth expansion will bring light to what the main story arc holds. I can't go much in detail what that will be but It has to do with the Centean Block.
Unfortunately I don't have any dungeon maps. I do have a few ideas of what some of those maps would entail. Right now dungeon maps are least of my worries. It would be fun to do them however. Perhaps I could do them in Photoshop instead of CD3. I am focusing on revamping the lore and focusing on how to make the combat mechanics more cohesive. It took me about a week's worth to make the map. I worked on it for 2-4 hours at a time on and off. I already knew what environments I wanted and their names so it wasn't that long. I created the map in CC3. It's a symbol 2d mapping program for people who can't draw. lol. It's usually for people who make maps for their DND campaigns.
I think the map is pretty awesome and something I would love to explore.
Couple questions:
Do you have a global version where everything connects and you can potentially sail around the whole world?
If not will you make new continents discovered be expansions?
Do you have any dungeon maps? Cities or towns or any more detailed area maps? Creature habitats or population maps? Crazy 3D elevation maps, weather maps?
I think this is a really solid start but would like to see more!!
Oh and how long did it take you to make and what did you make it with?
To answer your questions...
No I don't have a global version yet. This map actually is a revamp of a larger world map. The one linked in thread is more of a plausible realistic world map for an mmo versus my other one. With a new map lore will have to be edited and changed.
Yes I actually have 4 expansions planned if this was to make it. I decided instead of showing the whole continent I would have natural barriers that would be an interesting way to block off players from reaching other areas of the continent.
The Attican Wall was built in the Age of Judges to negate the evil that was residing in the current map, as well as to protect something very precious. A faction called the Seseraxian Empire has figured out the secret that is beyond the Attican Wall and at all cost will try to destroy it. Beyond the Attican Wall will be expansion 1.
The Eternal Blizzard is also another natural way to block off the most northern part of the continent. The Blizzard came quickly as it could without warning. Many that go in die. The razor sharp ice easily slices through plate armor. No one knows how the Blizzard began or why. The Eternal Blizzard will be expansion 2.
The Wandering Sands is the third natural blockade. For some reason when you wander there you'll go mad and get lost. Even if it's one mile in. You'll feel dizzy and go blind. There are many suspicions that the Wandering Sands has a magical effect to it. Many speculate it's a mad wizard that governs the sands and the jungles south of the desert, while others say it's Dragon Magic. The Wandering Sands will be expansion 3.
The Fourth expansion will bring light to what the main story arc holds. I can't go much in detail what that will be but It has to do with the Centean Block.
Unfortunately I don't have any dungeon maps. I do have a few ideas of what some of those maps would entail. Right now dungeon maps are least of my worries. It would be fun to do them however. Perhaps I could do them in Photoshop instead of CD3. I am focusing on revamping the lore and focusing on how to make the combat mechanics more cohesive. It took me about a week's worth to make the map. I worked on it for 2-4 hours at a time on and off. I already knew what environments I wanted and their names so it wasn't that long. I created the map in CC3. It's a symbol 2d mapping program for people who can't draw. lol. It's usually for people who make maps for their DND campaigns.
That's really cool. Figured you had larger plans in the works! Have you thought about recreating it in any game? Like Skyrim or Neverwinter Nights 2?
I've built areas in MUDs like Snow Mountian Monestary in AddictMUD way back when and I know C++ among other programming languages. Also built some dungeons and mods for Skyrim like City of the Betrayed on steam workshop. Made a persistant world in NWN2.
I'm guessing Campaign Cartographer 3 is what the CC3 stands for the CD3 must been a typo, looks pretty neat.
I think it would be pretty sweet to help make your world come alive if you ever needed a builder/scripter I do this for fun in my spare time. At the very least keep it up it's pretty good.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
That's really cool. Figured you had larger plans in the works! Have you thought about recreating it in any game? Like Skyrim or Neverwinter Nights 2?
I've built areas in MUDs like Snow Mountian Monestary in AddictMUD way back when and I know C++ among other programming languages. Also built some dungeons and mods for Skyrim like City of the Betrayed on steam workshop. Made a persistant world in NWN2.
I'm guessing Campaign Cartographer 3 is what the CC3 stands for the CD3 must been a typo, looks pretty neat.
I think it would be pretty sweet to help make your world come alive if you ever needed a builder/scripter I do this for fun in my spare time. At the very least keep it up it's pretty good.
That's pretty impressive work Nilden! Watching your NWN mod is pretty cool. Great job on the mod. I did make a small mod in Oblivion once. It was pretty cool. CD3 was suppose to be DD3. Which is Dungeon Designer 3, made by the same company. And yes, CC3 is that. I love the program.
It would take a lot of work. I have a great imagination and coherent ideas but I don't have the hand to do well in 3dmodelling and don't have the mind to get programming. Willing to learn for sure. I appreciate that you'd be willing to help it come alive. MMO's are super expensive and tedious to develop. To get a good track record going could always start this as a RPG that goes to mmo later on to get game recognition.
I would say the 3 primary selling points for my mmo would be, 1. adaptive/interesting combat mechanics, 2. Immersive World and 3. Community building. If you like, I wouldn't be opposed to starting it out simple. I'll have to figure out more stuff since some of the ideas are on revamp mode.
Was you suggesting to make it into a mod first or start from scratch by using the Unity Engine for an example?
Comments
I don't know about the average players .. but making maps is easy-mode, boring, tedious work. If a game don't want me to play a cartographer (which i did in the MIght & Magic days because there was no choice), i will go to other games.
It may be boring and tedious for you but it may not be boring for others. There is the instant gratification crowd who only look at the prize and then the other crowd who enjoys the journey to the prize. Perhaps being a cartographer profession would help the on their journeys.
I don't see how making a map is easy mode? Care to elaborate?
While I personally love exploring worlds, after all the MMOs I've played, I've realized that the new MMO worlds out now are not any larger or smaller than the majority of the older gen MMO worlds. To me, I think players feel that the world is small because everything is visible with maps, trackers, mini-maps, and all sorts of UI indicators telling you exactly where to go and how to get to a certain location.
This begs the question, why did developers feel the need to build maps into the UI along with quest trackers and heat zone overlay indicators? To me, I feel that developers built it in to make it more user-friendly for younger audiences to quest and to allow older audiences to save time and feel like they're progressing in a short period of time (since people work and have other real life responsibilities).
But let's say there is no "cartographer" in the game and there is no maps, people would probably not put in the work and just google the maps and look for answers. As a developer, would you want your players to go through that hassle? Hrmm....
I would think the developers would actually want the players to look at and enjoy the environments around them. I bet most people know the mini map and arrows far better then the actual world they are traveling around in. There is no doubt in my mind that having a GPS removes the player from actually identifying and enjoying the environment around them. I can to this conclusion after playing through Dark Souls "which has no map or arrows to point the way".
Sure .. look at what is around you, put it down on paper, rinse and repeat .. easy and boring. I want no journey, just skip to the dungeon like D3. Don't give me filler for the game.
And given that most games have mini-map features, and they are popular, i would say that most people find cartography boring. Sure there are always some people who like niche stuff. Let them turn off the mini-map, and draw maps to their heart content.
Actually .. D3 is great example .. the fun is not to find your bounty ... the fun is to kill the boss (or whatever) for the bounty.
That easy .. make smaller and interesting environment and let people use that in combat. Games like Dishonored and Deus Ex have great levels with lots of things you can do with the environment. Even D3 has destructable stuff, traps and other interactive stuff to make things interesting in the environment.
It is interesting to hide behind a column, or blast it so it can fall down to kill the mob. It is not interesting to just look at scenary. If i want to do that, i buy a post-card.
Everything you say is I could do this in real life. Games mimic real life. That is what they are all about. That's why we have sports games. That is a poor excuse for not using things in a game. I'm not always interested in a small environment. As some people have said we like to explore and we like to look at the scenery. That is part of the experience for us.
Thanks. I figured you'd say that. We all get it. The type of game design elements I describe in my thread is not for you. Stick to lobby based games. This thread is about people who want a world to be apart of, not a lobby. Thanks for making your point. We get it now.. no need to be redundant any more on these threads.
I don't know if I enjoy making maps or not, but I prefer to identify where I'm traveling by landmarks instead of maps.
I can't imagine that making maps is easier then killing mobs in most games today. It requires a lot of effort to plan the map out and then make drawings that are appealing/meaningful to people. Neither are easy to do IMO.
You haven't played D3 in high difficulty. It is 100x more challenging (and not to mention fun) compared to making maps .. even than in the days of M&M when i use actual grid paper. That is just boring and repetitive.
How hard is it just write down stuff every few steps? Why is that even comparable to tactical combat which requires some thinking (and even meta) and reaction?
But that is not the point .. the point is making map is no fun to me. And i suspect it is no fun to many.
What difference does it make if only a dew people make maps? That is actually realistic since not a lot of people made maps In medieval times.
As for d3 I'm sure it is pretty hard at later levels but I doubt its harder than making a good map. Combat in a video game anyone can do. I doubt everyone can make a map.
So what about the map it self I posted? I wouldn't mind getting some more feedback on the world.
I like how each race has a starting city, but most of the time only 1-2 of those places are populated later in the game and those starting racial cities are barren. I kind of taken the ESO route and have three starting cities for 10 races. There was different starting areas for each of the races before but something caused them to move their home or they lost their home. I feel like writing some lore so here ya go....
Kael'Tristin "the gate of the north" - First King John Kael and Gorgon Tristin used Kael'Tristin as a keep to ward off the frost giants of the White Waste from plundering the tribes of the forest and the fens. Only races who reside there are allowed freely beyond the gate of the city. Others may pass on their on their own accord. Current King, Emil Tristin is very adamant about those who wonder in the north to bring something back to contribute in the efforts to hold off the frost giant attack.
Races that are housed by Kael'Tristin
Attaru: A bear race that wondered beyond the Northern Gap and are now trapped due to the Eternal Blizzard. The Attaru north of the blizzard are now long forgotten. Large in size, the Attaru are now used as guardians of the north or a hired hand used to track down bounty.
Nausaabi: A small nimble rabbit race that where taken in when their homes were invaded by the Troll & Orc Campaign in the Trollhunt Hills. As of late most Nausaabi have been recruited by the Hands of Shadow, an ancient assassins guild.
Crypt Elf: Risen by the first necromancer, Zenovas Darkmoon to seek revenge when the armies of the first Great War burned his home city of Cambethiel to the ground. Undead with obsidian rime felt skin,the Crypt Elves are frowned upon and rejected in most social circles. Kael'Tristin, the only kingship city took them in and used them in their armies against the frost giant threat.
Felthine "the city of magic" - Pristine colossal marble of elven architecture that breaches the clouds, Felthine rests on a cliff face in the wondrous Morning Shade over looking the Riverlands. Magic was first discovered here in the Age of Kings. Residents of Felthine felt more attuned to the mystical magic auras that would surface. Magic was even used in the architecture to create unnatural spiral shapes to top off the seven towers.
Races that are housed by Felthine
Elves: Pure beauty one would say when gazing upon an elf of noble origin. Elves believe they are all destined to be of noble cause and serve in royal houses. Elves rival the Dwarves in producing stunning architecture.
Dwarf: Legend has it that their home of Tharkanar collapsed to the ground by a woken Mountain Titan in the Iron Mountains. Others believe it was simply a quake. The Dwarves are always seeking new ways to smith the best blade. They hold tournaments each year to determine which blade will be used by Knights of Felthine.
Korelon: Arcanic humans that figured out the riddle to the Vission. Once wondered inside, they were more attuned to magic, ancient magical symbols etched into their changing pigment skin. Korelons are known as the scribes of Magic. They where the first to use magic for destructive purposes.
Taldeum "the city of the cursed" - The south. The Arid misery of the heat didn't draw many to take kingship in the south. Not even royal families wanted to govern. Before the four kingdoms where established, a human from a bakers tribe, Osgard Daenarik of no royal blood was commissioned to govern the south. Many believe because the southern Kingdom didn't initially have royal blood they would be forever cursed. That could explain why races who have a history of misfortune flock there.
Races that are housed by Taldeum
Mu'atan: Humans that vowed their souls to the evil entity Vainspire got more than then were beckoned for. When the Judges came from the heavens to purge the world of evil, these humans turned their back on Vainspire and wanted forgiveness for their sins. Instead Vainspire cursed them by burring them alive dishonorably in tombs wrapped in dark linen. The Mu'atans where given a penance for their sins by the Judges to seek forgiveness. However, if they let revenge and hate consume them they would curse them selves and be forever trapped in mummified bodies.
Velthriss: Stout lizards that stand upright and tall. They come from the Arache Jungle. The Velthriss will defend their jungle and claim that as their land. Velthrissian generals are considered more ruthless than Orc generals. If you question their authority, perceive as week, or even loose a battle and survive you're banished from their ranks and exiled from the jungle to never return. The Velthriss that take refuge in Taldeum are such as these and willing to turn their back on their own kind to rebel against their former leaders.
Jakari: A rare ape race that now dwells within the jungle isles east of Taldeum. Through the ages, the Jakari where a slave race for the Velthrissians in the wars against the humans of Evansmable. The Jakari are now in alliance with the people of Taldeum to preserve their race from extinction. The Jakari are learning how to cease their tension from the banished Velthrissians even though they are allies.
Humans: Humans are the only race that can start from any of the three starting cities. Humans have no obligatory factions and can travel throughout the four kingdoms freely. Humans are also very unpredictable. They are the least trusted race because they will turn on you once they find gain in any endeavor. Prophets believe that Humans are like a wave in the ocean. Sometimes their calm, peaceful and kind and others they are vile, prideful and dishonorable. It's that desire to become a God within them they must control.
I hope at least some of you all will read this. I hope the snippets I provided where decent enough to enjoy the read. Just would like to rail this thread back on the tracks of what it's intended for.
If only a few people make maps, it is inconvenient to get them. We are talking about games here. Whatever fun is fine, and so what if it is not realistic.
In fact, FANTASY games are not realistic in the first place. You can always put some magic mumbo jumbo to explain why everyone has a mini-map in their head.
I agree with you on realism, but I still feel maps/gps detract from the game experience for the other reasons I noted.
Now since the argument is nullified we can stop with the redundant posts Nariusseldon? You're both right in your own mind because you both enjoy two different styles of gameplay. This thread is intended for people who want an immersive world. I understand it's fine to disagree with others who don't and enjoy lobby games instead. Let's re-rail this train
Now people can give some feedback for the map it self and the snippets of lore I provided
I like your map. My own specific points of interest would be Beth Aven (which appears to be an Oasis), Hawthorne, and the Orinion Isles. If it was an MMO with open housing I'd be setting up shop in one of if not all of those three areas.
The Oasis (Beth Aven) has appeal to the crafter/merchant side of me, seems like a good place to setup shop to peddle wares.
Hawthorne has that mountain/frozen tundra appeal.
The Isle to the north, well, I like the remote location and forest area. Seems like a place I'd setup a player house/village/city. Quiet and isolated.
~I am Many~
Thanks for your comments Sevala.
I like how the landmarks on my map spark what they could potentially be. You're exactly right about Beth Aven. It's the merchant's capitol actually. Beth Aven is the only city that allows black market rare items to be sold and traded. Beth Aven also serves as a centralized world bank loaning coin to the four kingdoms. Evansmable, one of the richest cities didn't rival the true wealth of Beth Aven because the merchants of the city don't flatter their architecture with the finest rock or gems.
Hawthrone a large village in the north that serves under the Kael'Tristin Kingdom. The residents of Hawthorne are considered barbaric and have a viking like look to them. This is where melee classes can obtain special armor from the Elk, the Ram or the Snow Leopard armor.
The Orinian Isles are very remote and house a lot of viscous wildlife. It's one of the prominent solo areas for players, especially in higher end gameplay.
Your welcome. Seems spot on then.
Setting up a player city/house/village on the remote Isles sounds even better knowing that. That would all be a matter of mechanics though. Either way though, kudos to your map and well laid out thoughts on the areas.
~I am Many~
Detracting is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, you want to make your own map but i view the requirement to do so detracting from the core gameplay ... combat & progression.
Thanks so much on staying on topic and enjoying the world. Did you check out the city and race lore I posted? Wouldn't mind hearing from feedback if you get the chance, if lore is appealing.
I think the map is pretty awesome and something I would love to explore.
Couple questions:
Do you have a global version where everything connects and you can potentially sail around the whole world?
If not will you make new continents discovered be expansions?
Do you have any dungeon maps? Cities or towns or any more detailed area maps? Creature habitats or population maps? Crazy 3D elevation maps, weather maps?
I think this is a really solid start but would like to see more!!
Oh and how long did it take you to make and what did you make it with?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/To answer your questions...
No I don't have a global version yet. This map actually is a revamp of a larger world map. The one linked in thread is more of a plausible realistic world map for an mmo versus my other one. With a new map lore will have to be edited and changed.
Yes I actually have 4 expansions planned if this was to make it. I decided instead of showing the whole continent I would have natural barriers that would be an interesting way to block off players from reaching other areas of the continent.
The Attican Wall was built in the Age of Judges to negate the evil that was residing in the current map, as well as to protect something very precious. A faction called the Seseraxian Empire has figured out the secret that is beyond the Attican Wall and at all cost will try to destroy it. Beyond the Attican Wall will be expansion 1.
The Eternal Blizzard is also another natural way to block off the most northern part of the continent. The Blizzard came quickly as it could without warning. Many that go in die. The razor sharp ice easily slices through plate armor. No one knows how the Blizzard began or why. The Eternal Blizzard will be expansion 2.
The Wandering Sands is the third natural blockade. For some reason when you wander there you'll go mad and get lost. Even if it's one mile in. You'll feel dizzy and go blind. There are many suspicions that the Wandering Sands has a magical effect to it. Many speculate it's a mad wizard that governs the sands and the jungles south of the desert, while others say it's Dragon Magic. The Wandering Sands will be expansion 3.
The Fourth expansion will bring light to what the main story arc holds. I can't go much in detail what that will be but It has to do with the Centean Block.
Unfortunately I don't have any dungeon maps. I do have a few ideas of what some of those maps would entail. Right now dungeon maps are least of my worries. It would be fun to do them however. Perhaps I could do them in Photoshop instead of CD3. I am focusing on revamping the lore and focusing on how to make the combat mechanics more cohesive. It took me about a week's worth to make the map. I worked on it for 2-4 hours at a time on and off. I already knew what environments I wanted and their names so it wasn't that long. I created the map in CC3. It's a symbol 2d mapping program for people who can't draw. lol. It's usually for people who make maps for their DND campaigns.
That's really cool. Figured you had larger plans in the works! Have you thought about recreating it in any game? Like Skyrim or Neverwinter Nights 2?
I've built areas in MUDs like Snow Mountian Monestary in AddictMUD way back when and I know C++ among other programming languages. Also built some dungeons and mods for Skyrim like City of the Betrayed on steam workshop. Made a persistant world in NWN2.
I'm guessing Campaign Cartographer 3 is what the CC3 stands for the CD3 must been a typo, looks pretty neat.
I think it would be pretty sweet to help make your world come alive if you ever needed a builder/scripter I do this for fun in my spare time. At the very least keep it up it's pretty good.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/That's pretty impressive work Nilden! Watching your NWN mod is pretty cool. Great job on the mod. I did make a small mod in Oblivion once. It was pretty cool. CD3 was suppose to be DD3. Which is Dungeon Designer 3, made by the same company. And yes, CC3 is that. I love the program.
It would take a lot of work. I have a great imagination and coherent ideas but I don't have the hand to do well in 3dmodelling and don't have the mind to get programming. Willing to learn for sure. I appreciate that you'd be willing to help it come alive. MMO's are super expensive and tedious to develop. To get a good track record going could always start this as a RPG that goes to mmo later on to get game recognition.
I would say the 3 primary selling points for my mmo would be, 1. adaptive/interesting combat mechanics, 2. Immersive World and 3. Community building. If you like, I wouldn't be opposed to starting it out simple. I'll have to figure out more stuff since some of the ideas are on revamp mode.
Was you suggesting to make it into a mod first or start from scratch by using the Unity Engine for an example?