I believe the map you drew is really good, but I would prefer the maps were limited to one giant world map with no GPS.
The reason I would like this is because I notice that when playing games today (most have maps/gps) I ignore the environment almost completely.
In EQ I would have to learn landmarks to an extent. I guess I could have just followed the zone wall as well, but if we have a world that is seamless this is less of an issue.
In Dark Souls 2 I've really had to pay attention to the environment around me. It's not as much an issue of getting lost, but finding hidden things and being careful not to fall into traps/off cliffs (environmental hazards).
The main thing is you want the player to pay attention to the areas you have worked hard to create. You also want the player to reuse said areas.
Many times in games today I will completely ignore the area I'm going through. I'm only looking at the point on the mini map/map. If I had to traverse the area again without the map I would probably not be able to do it.
Beyond this I feel you want to make your world feel a bit more realistic and less just kill, kill, kill, loot non stop(like today's games).
Originally posted by Quirhid Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.
I agree with Quirhid. If the mechanics, "gameplay," of the game were right, I think this world would be fun. It reminded me of the first time I looked at an Elder Scrolls map. I also agree that G.P.S. has to go. Give me a way to buy/craft a compass and a way to buy/craft a map. That would be a great feature for an explorer class. You can sell maps of pieces of the world you have explored, where you have marked points of interest, etc.
This makes me miss playing tabletop DnD.
Table Top DND. A paper way of what an mmo should be similar too in a way. I am glad this thread and map made you miss DND.
I agree with your assessment about the GPS. We're on the same wave length with the map idea. I think a good sub profession would be cartography. Basically everything you've proposed is what I was considering as well. I think lore also must address this issue as well. Yes the world may be explored to other NPC's. But it's not explored to a new character. For whatever reason your new character hasn't got out much or something like that. I do believe however, that the starting area or the next progression area should be mapped, but beyond that it's nothing. Also negating third party UI's and map makers for the areas would also greatly decrease the GPS.
there's just enough sea to venture around to other lands, there's vast and diverse landscape and every part of the map has few interesting spots which stand out and just ask for attention.
I'd love to explore this map.
Like judicium, sunxor, phantom cauldron (sounds and looks interesting, like some kind of a portal), attican wall reminds me of the great ice wall from GOT ( I bet that's the first thing you took from there) and I'd be interested to see what threats are beyond it, zhadex vex looks evil
Lair of gonthos sounds like there might be a massive world boss in there. Moonryn temple reminds me of naxxramas a bit so that'd be interesting to see what's in there. Icexor tier? Worth a visit.
Thank you Korent. I am glad you listed some places of interest you'd like to explore. Most of what you've mentioned are Raid Campaign Areas or points of interested listed as World Wonders. Green text are raid campaigns while the purple text are listed as World Wonders.
To be honest I had the Attican Wall idea for quiet sometime before I even heard of Game of Thrones. I caught up within a week and half about 2 months ago. The wall in Game of Thrones influenced me more to use that aspect of the game now instead of later in my newest revamp.
With the world design in mind, my old map was more of a rectangle in shape and wasn't as natural. I thought to be more natural with the world I had to have pieces of several contents that are revealed now and could be revealed later. I wanted to use a clever way to do that by using natural barriers. The Attican Wall, the Eternal Blizzard and the Wandering Sands are the three natural barriers that will lead into expansions later
I would like to begin by thanking you Eronakis for starting this thread.
The "massively multi player" universe isn't imploding. Rather it's evolving. I have thought and have shared these thoughts with my guildies and on various guild forums how I view an intuitive mmo world. I have, at least for me, exhausted my interests for factions and false heroes especially at the beginning of just about every mmo I have tried since 2004. I, for one, am quite "over" all that.
My philosophy of being a part of an mmo experience is just that. Be a part of it; experience it; live it! We have the technology and Lord only knows we have the folks out there like yourself, Erankis, that dream of a vast world to explore. Hopefully, the people over at the San Diego creative campus we call SoE are actually in the midst of creating such a world. I suppose we'll have to wait until this coming August at SoE Live 2014 to maybe, just maybe have some positive news shared with us.
We should move forward. Yes, we can embrace fondly what we first experienced with our "first mmo", but we should move forward. My hope, and put faith here, is that there are some young artists, story writers, designers, code technicians, and many other gaming related "wizards" out there that see opportunities to build a place for all of us. Indeed even ask us to share in that "building" and inventing of a truly wonderful place. It could happen. One only needs to believe, then go out and seek others with similar dreams. Money though, that is the evil that constrains us many times. Money is sadly a truth we must somehow come to grips with. Do we as avid hobbyists have the strength and faith that we might invest this time and money? Well we are starting to see this happen. Do gamers have the power to change the future of the mmo? Yes, I say we do. We simply need to be a positive, rather than a negative influence on the industry out there.
Your map made me want to go and see what is there. How do these lands appear? What lies ahead? What lurks behind? What makes a hero? Why do factions become united? Can you create a peace after war? Many, many more questions can be and should be asked, if we are to grow, not only as a community, but as gaming engineers...
Thank you Sir Erankis!
/bows with respect
Alyn
Thanks Alyn. I appreciate your comments. I am glad it sparked imagination and intrigue just from the map alone. I was hoping for some feedback from that.
I had serious great anticipation for EQN. I am very thrilled about the new innovations that is being brought to the table. But personally I am not thrilled with their art direction, class or combat design. But I am still willing to try it out given their philosophy on game design is nearly similar to mine.
Its gameplay and content that makes the world interesting. What's my motivation to enter the cave I just found that is filled with goblins? Treasure with money and gear? An ancient text? Pest control? An arrow points me in that direction and I get exp and loot once I finished it?
The real issue with the game world is the streamlined content with quest arrows leading you like a sheep through the world and not the world itself. Sometimes that arrow can be helpful when the directions you got were flawed, but it kills the reason for exploration. The level-based progression forces you to repeat enough points of interest, and the problem is that once you've done enough repetition the poi stopped being interesting. Same thing goes for the village menace.
The other problem is the world and other players. What happens to the place once I finished, do everything respawn 5 minutes later? What happens if someone was just ahead of me killing everything, do I have to wait for respawns?
Sometimes instancing is great since it removes the competition and let you experience that goblin king on your own, or possibly with a friend. Used too often and it removes your connection to the world.
It was level-based progression that killed every single zone in WoW, and not the instanced dungeons and raids. The problem with swtor was the sterile world and not their story-based instancing.
The solution isn't to remove gameplay innovations that clearly have been successful at delivering content, but instead replace them with new gameplay that works even better. You might not have to remove it completely, but instead use it sparsely so that it increases variation without killing the world.
Shaigh I couldn't agree more. A world is just apart of the mural. Gameplay, lore and content are the other half of the painting.
I do agree that "hand holding" is lame and lazy design to you and I who are looking for something else. Remember pre WoW, the mmo genre was for niche gamers. You had EQ for the hardcore PVE, you had AC and DaOC for the PVP players. You had UO for the sandbox crowd. Whatever the direction for the desired title is what works best for. What I am discussing in my thread is that this niche of players want to be immersed. Like we once was in mmo's pre WoW.
Themepark mmo's are not a bad thing but yet the direction they've been taken is not a good thing either in my opinion. I would also say that level based progression is not also a bad thing either and is not contingent on the demise of immersiveness. Level based progression gives the player a sense of accomplishment. I as a player like that. I know how far I must go and where I've been.
I think level based progression can still work without killing the world. Like you've mentioned it must be a more natural course. I also don't like the idea that once you've adventured in a level 40 zone persay you're completely done with that because you've moved on.
I truly honestly believe the solution to this riddle is to actually develop game play elements that would allow the player with a party to have epic travel. You actually go on an adventure. You get a quest and you start at one point. On unpredetermined pathways (sort of like a choose your own adventure book), that path may lead to a different outcome you've may started out on. These types of adventure quests mechanics can be used to explore or even reveal lore or even create lore.
Look at movies or novels or Game of Thrones even. There is epic travel in that as well. For that sometimes it's boring. I am not suggesting that epic travel will be a time sink, just that there will be obstacles in the way of your epic travel.
Adventure based quest mechanics with an emphasis on epic travel is the solution to this problem. Instancing takes the player out of the world. Phasing kind of does the same. In a way with the living story of GW2 if you miss it, you miss it. So something along those lines of you're apart of the world. Sometimes you miss stuff and sometimes you're there to experience it.
A map with no GPS??!?! Are u guys crazy??!!? That would mean I could actually get lost and wont know where to go to kill mobs!!! This is 2014 for Christs sake, if I wanted to go exploring Id go camping or something. This is just a game, not the real world lol
Originally posted by nilden This is one of the main features I look for in a MMORPG. I'm done with instanced, lobby based, LFD dungeon running. If the world is "B-roll" content that you never visit again instead of being the content, then I'm not interested.
Sign me up! Well said. The WORLD is why I play MMORPGS.
I concur.
I also want to add that i want a world that feels alive and have interesting content. To me It does not matter how beautiful and open the world is if all you can do in it is mindless boring quest hub grind or mob grind your way up.
Originally posted by YoungCaesar A map with no GPS??!?! Are u guys crazy??!!? That would mean I could actually get lost and wont know where to go to kill mobs!!! This is 2014 for Christs sake, if I wanted to go exploring Id go camping or something. This is just a game, not the real world lol
thats genius! You have no idea how many times i facepalm when someone in chat asks where to kill monsters at X level. Just go explore the damn map!
A world would be nice so long as there's no copy n paste terrain. I don't mind dungeons and dungeon finders and teleports. What makes a world feel small to me is the zoning. But I can't see them making anything different on the piece of junk dated shit we call computers and game stations. Technology has to advance before our cyber space can hold millions of players lag free without crashing.
^ I saw the world map. Compared to scale it doesn't look that large. So it may seem as if travel and grand scale of the game for a seamless world may be over in a short run. The environment graphics look really good though!
Originally posted by YoungCaesar A map with no GPS??!?! Are u guys crazy??!!? That would mean I could actually get lost and wont know where to go to kill mobs!!! This is 2014 for Christs sake, if I wanted to go exploring Id go camping or something. This is just a game, not the real world lol
thats genius! You have no idea how many times i facepalm when someone in chat asks where to kill monsters at X level. Just go explore the damn map!
Walking around in terrain looking for things to kill is a) easy-mode (since there is no challenge in walking), b) boring (to me, and youngcaesar).
And he is right, games are not real worlds. Cut the boring stuff (or at least the stuff boring to the audience).
If i want to run around and find things, i will go play hide and seek with my kids.
Originally posted by YoungCaesar A map with no GPS??!?! Are u guys crazy??!!? That would mean I could actually get lost and wont know where to go to kill mobs!!! This is 2014 for Christs sake, if I wanted to go exploring Id go camping or something. This is just a game, not the real world lol
thats genius! You have no idea how many times i facepalm when someone in chat asks where to kill monsters at X level. Just go explore the damn map!
Walking around in terrain looking for things to kill is a) easy-mode (since there is no challenge in walking), b) boring (to me, and youngcaesar).
And he is right, games are not real worlds. Cut the boring stuff (or at least the stuff boring to the audience).
If i want to run around and find things, i will go play hide and seek with my kids.
You should be playing First Person Shooters and other lobby based games.
Every one of your posts essentially is saying you want the MMORPG genre to be a lobby game or an "entertainment product" as opposed to a virtual world- Thing is, those games (and that genre) exists already.
Originally posted by YoungCaesar A map with no GPS??!?! Are u guys crazy??!!? That would mean I could actually get lost and wont know where to go to kill mobs!!! This is 2014 for Christs sake, if I wanted to go exploring Id go camping or something. This is just a game, not the real world lol
thats genius! You have no idea how many times i facepalm when someone in chat asks where to kill monsters at X level. Just go explore the damn map!
Walking around in terrain looking for things to kill is a) easy-mode (since there is no challenge in walking), b) boring (to me, and youngcaesar).
And he is right, games are not real worlds. Cut the boring stuff (or at least the stuff boring to the audience).
If i want to run around and find things, i will go play hide and seek with my kids.
You should be playing First Person Shooters and other lobby based games.
Every one of your posts essentially is saying you want the MMORPG genre to be a lobby game or an "entertainment product" as opposed to a virtual world- Thing is, those games (and that genre) exists already.
I would add that people do appear to want open worlds because single player open world games are doing really well right now.
And I don't mind lobby-based games like Tribes: Ascend or other small scale multiplayer games. It's just that I expect more from the MMO genre, especially if they charge me monthly.
Most mmos are free.
and why do u care what genre is a game if it is fun? I dont.
to me, most lobby based games are more fun. In fact, it mmos are not more like lobby games, i wont even bother. But they donso i give them a chance.
I was talking about this with my friends and I suggested we go retro and just remove maps all together (maybe put quests in to obtain pieces of maps?). Removing maps and adding Fog of War would make people social and talk about exploring. Also, people who have played the game longer and have explored more, would have more knowledge thus being more valuable within the community/guilds. However, my buddies told me that this is 2014 and said, "What if car manufacturers removed a car audio system/radio to encourage more conversation during drives. You would be a car with more features right?" I think what he says is true and that people would just not play the game of frustration.
Originally posted by jeffxsee I was talking about this with my friends and I suggested we go retro and just remove maps all together (maybe put quests in to obtain pieces of maps?). Removing maps and adding Fog of War would make people social and talk about exploring. Also, people who have played the game longer and have explored more, would have more knowledge thus being more valuable within the community/guilds. However, my buddies told me that this is 2014 and said, "What if car manufacturers removed a car audio system/radio to encourage more conversation during drives. You would be a car with more features right?" I think what he says is true and that people would just not play the game of frustration.
Thats a poor comparison though-
In the case you mentioned regarding maps and fog of war- Why not have your cake and eat it to? Allow for the "fog of war" to encourage exploration but allow players to share or sell their map info. Someone who enjoys exploring could uncover the whole Map and have a nice business selling to someone who can grind gold or craft or whatever for a few hours (i.e. play the parts of the game they like) and then purchase the maps.
Originally posted by AxxarAnd I don't mind lobby-based games like Tribes: Ascend or other small scale multiplayer games. It's just that I expect more from the MMO genre, especially if they charge me monthly.
Most mmos are free.
and why do u care what genre is a game if it is fun? I dont.
to me, most lobby based games are more fun. In fact, it mmos are not more like lobby games, i wont even bother. But they donso i give them a chance.
I look for different experiences. When I get bored of a lobby game I can switch to an open world game and enjoy the freedom. Some games just don't work well as lobby games. Grand Theft Auto or Skyrim would are great examples of popular and fun open world games.
What's the point of making an open world game if you want players to approach it as a lobby game? It detracts from the open world experience when you are jerked out of the immersion with a lobby popup. People interested in the lobby part are annoyed when they need to travel through the world. Neither is fun. Why not just spend the resources on making a better lobby game or a better open world game?
Either game type is valid, but the design needs to fit the purpose to provide the most enjoyable game experience.
Originally posted by AxxarAnd I don't mind lobby-based games like Tribes: Ascend or other small scale multiplayer games. It's just that I expect more from the MMO genre, especially if they charge me monthly.
Most mmos are free.
and why do u care what genre is a game if it is fun? I dont.
to me, most lobby based games are more fun. In fact, it mmos are not more like lobby games, i wont even bother. But they donso i give them a chance.
I look for different experiences. When I get bored of a lobby game I can switch to an open world game and enjoy the freedom. Some games just don't work well as lobby games. Grand Theft Auto or Skyrim would are great examples of popular and fun open world games.
What's the point of making an open world game if you want players to approach it as a lobby game? It detracts from the open world experience when you are jerked out of the immersion with a lobby popup. People interested in the lobby part are annoyed when they need to travel through the world. Neither is fun. Why not just spend the resources on making a better lobby game or a better open world game?
Either game type is valid, but the design needs to fit the purpose to provide the most enjoyable game experience.
The point is that none of the open world game you mentioned is a mmo. So why would you call if mmos are lobby games or open world games? Mmos can be either .. And it boils down to if a game is good.
you clearly play single player open worlg games, but when u r in the mood for a lobby game, why would you avoid a good lobby mmo?
The Winterwood Thicket hit me right in the childhood, somehow. Love maps like that. Side note, you may want to have someone do your names; half of yours are great, half I'd replace.
That's cool that you think the winter wood thicket hit home. Could you be more specific on what names you dislike? The names have a reason with lore. I think they're clever. Would also like to know what names of places you do like too..? Thanks...
Originally posted by jeffxsee I was talking about this with my friends and I suggested we go retro and just remove maps all together (maybe put quests in to obtain pieces of maps?). Removing maps and adding Fog of War would make people social and talk about exploring. Also, people who have played the game longer and have explored more, would have more knowledge thus being more valuable within the community/guilds. However, my buddies told me that this is 2014 and said, "What if car manufacturers removed a car audio system/radio to encourage more conversation during drives. You would be a car with more features right?" I think what he says is true and that people would just not play the game of frustration.
Thats a poor comparison though-
In the case you mentioned regarding maps and fog of war- Why not have your cake and eat it to? Allow for the "fog of war" to encourage exploration but allow players to share or sell their map info. Someone who enjoys exploring could uncover the whole Map and have a nice business selling to someone who can grind gold or craft or whatever for a few hours (i.e. play the parts of the game they like) and then purchase the maps.
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
Originally posted by Quirhid Lore, story, world, graphics... all secondary to gameplay.
I think one's mileage may vary on that.
I'd prefer, and would pay good money for a world with lore, perhaps a story woven into its fabric and decent graphics.
I could care less about "game play".
As I've said before, give me an open world, some interesting places and things to discover and monsters to fight and I'd be satisfied. Some decent pvp perhaps.
pretty much all I want.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Aelious Nice work Eronikas and yes I would play in that world. I also would rather play in a virtual world rather than a lobby or have heavy lobby elements. Luckily some of the modern technologies can provide what seems to be a seem less world while allowing for population flexibility. This is mostly in the form of phasing.
I thinks it's possible to create an open environment MMO cheaper than a fully fleshed out one. If there are mechanics in place for players to also build their own content (buildings and encounters) even more so. This still assumes that combat, sound and animations are good. Questing itself is far too inflated in most titles and could be more sparse, even if they did yield a higher reward.
I would love to play an open environment MMO with as little limits on itemization and playing with others as possible.
I'm not a big fan of phasing. I think it is detrimental to an MMO's community. I not talking about e-fame or anything like that, I like to know a bit about the guilds, people and communities around the server. In ESO I couldn't name more than three guilds in all the weeks I spent in the game, I hardly knew any communities and every person I saw was a complete stranger. In the two or three days I spent in ArcheAge, I know of a dozen guilds, what they are like and some of the more notorious characters in the game. I know of a couple of guys I can get some resources from and I know who to go to for some rare items. In ESO that's simply not possible. It's probably not an important aspect for a non-social game like ESO, but I think phasing hinders more than helps the feel of the game.
Comments
I believe the map you drew is really good, but I would prefer the maps were limited to one giant world map with no GPS.
The reason I would like this is because I notice that when playing games today (most have maps/gps) I ignore the environment almost completely.
In EQ I would have to learn landmarks to an extent. I guess I could have just followed the zone wall as well, but if we have a world that is seamless this is less of an issue.
In Dark Souls 2 I've really had to pay attention to the environment around me. It's not as much an issue of getting lost, but finding hidden things and being careful not to fall into traps/off cliffs (environmental hazards).
The main thing is you want the player to pay attention to the areas you have worked hard to create. You also want the player to reuse said areas.
Many times in games today I will completely ignore the area I'm going through. I'm only looking at the point on the mini map/map. If I had to traverse the area again without the map I would probably not be able to do it.
Beyond this I feel you want to make your world feel a bit more realistic and less just kill, kill, kill, loot non stop(like today's games).
Table Top DND. A paper way of what an mmo should be similar too in a way. I am glad this thread and map made you miss DND.
I agree with your assessment about the GPS. We're on the same wave length with the map idea. I think a good sub profession would be cartography. Basically everything you've proposed is what I was considering as well. I think lore also must address this issue as well. Yes the world may be explored to other NPC's. But it's not explored to a new character. For whatever reason your new character hasn't got out much or something like that. I do believe however, that the starting area or the next progression area should be mapped, but beyond that it's nothing. Also negating third party UI's and map makers for the areas would also greatly decrease the GPS.
Thank you Korent. I am glad you listed some places of interest you'd like to explore. Most of what you've mentioned are Raid Campaign Areas or points of interested listed as World Wonders. Green text are raid campaigns while the purple text are listed as World Wonders.
To be honest I had the Attican Wall idea for quiet sometime before I even heard of Game of Thrones. I caught up within a week and half about 2 months ago. The wall in Game of Thrones influenced me more to use that aspect of the game now instead of later in my newest revamp.
With the world design in mind, my old map was more of a rectangle in shape and wasn't as natural. I thought to be more natural with the world I had to have pieces of several contents that are revealed now and could be revealed later. I wanted to use a clever way to do that by using natural barriers. The Attican Wall, the Eternal Blizzard and the Wandering Sands are the three natural barriers that will lead into expansions later
Thanks Alyn. I appreciate your comments. I am glad it sparked imagination and intrigue just from the map alone. I was hoping for some feedback from that.
I had serious great anticipation for EQN. I am very thrilled about the new innovations that is being brought to the table. But personally I am not thrilled with their art direction, class or combat design. But I am still willing to try it out given their philosophy on game design is nearly similar to mine.
Shaigh I couldn't agree more. A world is just apart of the mural. Gameplay, lore and content are the other half of the painting.
I do agree that "hand holding" is lame and lazy design to you and I who are looking for something else. Remember pre WoW, the mmo genre was for niche gamers. You had EQ for the hardcore PVE, you had AC and DaOC for the PVP players. You had UO for the sandbox crowd. Whatever the direction for the desired title is what works best for. What I am discussing in my thread is that this niche of players want to be immersed. Like we once was in mmo's pre WoW.
Themepark mmo's are not a bad thing but yet the direction they've been taken is not a good thing either in my opinion. I would also say that level based progression is not also a bad thing either and is not contingent on the demise of immersiveness. Level based progression gives the player a sense of accomplishment. I as a player like that. I know how far I must go and where I've been.
I think level based progression can still work without killing the world. Like you've mentioned it must be a more natural course. I also don't like the idea that once you've adventured in a level 40 zone persay you're completely done with that because you've moved on.
I truly honestly believe the solution to this riddle is to actually develop game play elements that would allow the player with a party to have epic travel. You actually go on an adventure. You get a quest and you start at one point. On unpredetermined pathways (sort of like a choose your own adventure book), that path may lead to a different outcome you've may started out on. These types of adventure quests mechanics can be used to explore or even reveal lore or even create lore.
Look at movies or novels or Game of Thrones even. There is epic travel in that as well. For that sometimes it's boring. I am not suggesting that epic travel will be a time sink, just that there will be obstacles in the way of your epic travel.
Adventure based quest mechanics with an emphasis on epic travel is the solution to this problem. Instancing takes the player out of the world. Phasing kind of does the same. In a way with the living story of GW2 if you miss it, you miss it. So something along those lines of you're apart of the world. Sometimes you miss stuff and sometimes you're there to experience it.
I concur.
I also want to add that i want a world that feels alive and have interesting content. To me It does not matter how beautiful and open the world is if all you can do in it is mindless boring quest hub grind or mob grind your way up.
thats genius! You have no idea how many times i facepalm when someone in chat asks where to kill monsters at X level. Just go explore the damn map!
Black Desert
Fully noninstanced non-zoned world (even dungeons are non-instanced)
with THIS gfx (this picture hontestly doesnt give the game even justice lol)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Walking around in terrain looking for things to kill is a) easy-mode (since there is no challenge in walking), b) boring (to me, and youngcaesar).
And he is right, games are not real worlds. Cut the boring stuff (or at least the stuff boring to the audience).
If i want to run around and find things, i will go play hide and seek with my kids.
You should be playing First Person Shooters and other lobby based games.
Every one of your posts essentially is saying you want the MMORPG genre to be a lobby game or an "entertainment product" as opposed to a virtual world- Thing is, those games (and that genre) exists already.
I would add that people do appear to want open worlds because single player open world games are doing really well right now.
Most mmos are free.
and why do u care what genre is a game if it is fun? I dont.
to me, most lobby based games are more fun. In fact, it mmos are not more like lobby games, i wont even bother. But they donso i give them a chance.
Thats a poor comparison though-
In the case you mentioned regarding maps and fog of war- Why not have your cake and eat it to? Allow for the "fog of war" to encourage exploration but allow players to share or sell their map info. Someone who enjoys exploring could uncover the whole Map and have a nice business selling to someone who can grind gold or craft or whatever for a few hours (i.e. play the parts of the game they like) and then purchase the maps.
What's the point of making an open world game if you want players to approach it as a lobby game? It detracts from the open world experience when you are jerked out of the immersion with a lobby popup. People interested in the lobby part are annoyed when they need to travel through the world. Neither is fun. Why not just spend the resources on making a better lobby game or a better open world game?
Either game type is valid, but the design needs to fit the purpose to provide the most enjoyable game experience.
The point is that none of the open world game you mentioned is a mmo. So why would you call if mmos are lobby games or open world games? Mmos can be either .. And it boils down to if a game is good.
you clearly play single player open worlg games, but when u r in the mood for a lobby game, why would you avoid a good lobby mmo?
There are good ones?
Do you honestly think people who are groomed by the LFD, quest trackers, and GPS tools will tolerate a new modern triple A MMORPG without maps though? I bet players would get lost and wouldn't even be able to find the area they're supposed to kill since majority of the population doesn't even read the wall of lore text (assuming no voice overs and cut scenes are provided).
I think one's mileage may vary on that.
I'd prefer, and would pay good money for a world with lore, perhaps a story woven into its fabric and decent graphics.
I could care less about "game play".
As I've said before, give me an open world, some interesting places and things to discover and monsters to fight and I'd be satisfied. Some decent pvp perhaps.
pretty much all I want.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm not a big fan of phasing. I think it is detrimental to an MMO's community. I not talking about e-fame or anything like that, I like to know a bit about the guilds, people and communities around the server. In ESO I couldn't name more than three guilds in all the weeks I spent in the game, I hardly knew any communities and every person I saw was a complete stranger. In the two or three days I spent in ArcheAge, I know of a dozen guilds, what they are like and some of the more notorious characters in the game. I know of a couple of guys I can get some resources from and I know who to go to for some rare items. In ESO that's simply not possible. It's probably not an important aspect for a non-social game like ESO, but I think phasing hinders more than helps the feel of the game.