i don't actually see how having to buy (as example) instance passes for 2 weeks if i wanna play em benefits me.
neither do i see how i get any benefit of NOT having the possibility to lvl up to max lvl (including so called "vet" lvls).
and again i don't see ANY benefit in people being able to buy better equipment than i get by playing the game.
so no, i dont hate f2p gmes (league of legends was done quite well... the game iteself).
the main prob actually is tho, that not making em pay for their game attracts alot of pricks, millions of pricks, because that's what mankind actually is. we are made out of idiots for surely at least an 80% (or even more, but hell, if i'd go for 99% i get a temp ban again hehe).
and, even worse, it attracts every kind of troll.
yea, i am paying for my game per month, but that actually enables me to enjoy the WHOLE game without having to think of buying extra stuff again and again and again, coz seriously....
no one makes a game "for free". we all wanna earn money. even devs.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I hate free to play because it's a lie. The Developer is lying directly to your face when they say it's free to play. In fact, Free to Play generally costs the player more and the developer less, this is why so many f2p games have come out. You'll get people to come in and spend money on stuff, then they quit because the game is bad, and you have their money already. With subscriptions, you make more money the longer you get people to play the game, but the also comes with the added cost to the developer to make regular content updates to keep people playing and higher server costs.
I think some who hate F2P are just unlucky, perhaps they stumbled upon a very harsh P2W F2P or freemium one like PW or SWTOR. However, there are some good F2P games out there, you can't generalize them.
Originally posted by inemosz I think some who hate F2P are just unlucky, perhaps they stumbled upon a very harsh P2W F2P or freemium one like PW or SWTOR. However, there are some good F2P games out there, you can't generalize them.
people hate F2p cause they are those elitist jerks who cant accept that you can get the same content with lower price.
Like the hipsters who spend tons of money for an i-shit from apple while with the same money you can get the best of the best machines, but no they will get the crappy iMacs cause they are white and they look trendy .
The same stupid way of logic follow the subscription fans although the 90% of the latest p2p MMOs where crappy and far away from their AAA dreamed MMOs from their cloned fantasy of WoW . And to make this post racist, all those jerks come from US and they are stupid ppl who just have money but not brain to realize the world around them, even in their own city or country .
f2p games are designed with a cash shop in mind as the means to make a profit, whereas p2p games can only rely on the game being good and entertaining in order to profit. Not that f2p games can be crappy and still expect to make money, but often the games have intentionally annoying aspects built in to encourage the players to make cash shop purchases in order to not be so annoying. I just don't like that type of design.
I love F2P games. Call me a leach or whatever. I bought the Collectors edition to Rift and SWTOR when they both first came out. I stopped playing both after awhile because my budget for gaming got real tight to where a $15 a month subscription was just too much to ask. When Rift went free to play, I jumped all over it and loved every minute of it plus still got to keep all my Collectors Edition items as a free player. They never once tried to convince me to subscribe or steer me towards to cash shop, plus the new content they added was as fresh as ever as a F2P.
SWTOR on the other hand as a F2P was/is a joke. Yeah they made me a Preffered Player or whatever, but they steer you towards subscription or the cash shop every chance they got. Needless to say, I cut my losses with SWTOR.
I bought the Collectors editions and was a founder on 2 games that both went free to play. I spent more money than average user that bought the regular editions or the free downloaded editions. Does this make me a leach to want to try and get the money's worth that I have felt like I spent in the past?
I looked at it Similarly to GW2 which I also bought the Digital Deluxe edition but as you know has no subscription fees but keeps adding new content.
My question is "Why does everyone that makes a PC MMORPG have to try to charge a subscription fee like WOW $15 or so a month when you all ready bought the game?" These companies are trying to bleed their customers dry. Not every game is worth $15 a month. Rift was worth it but is even better now that it is free to play.
WOW is a whole other topic, because those folks at Blizzard are greedy SOB's charging $50 every time a new expansion comes out, plus your usual subscription fees for game time. Expansions shouldn't be so high if you all ready own the core game and previous expansions just for 5 more level cap a class or 2 and maybe a new zone with some dungeons. The game is ancient now, It's not worth it. I've done spent well over $1000 in WOW if you count up all the months/years I've played plus the Expansions that I bought at full retail price. That's enough money to buy parts to build a new custom PC to play the newer games with better graphics that are F2P. How much more support do them greedy people need? Because of people like you and me being suckers and paying it, They'll never stop rinsing and repeating at Blizzard. Other companies are looking at Blizzard saying "If they are getting rich off the suckers, why shouldn't We do the same Thing" I stopped for now though to test the F2P market to save some money and give other companies support and a chance.
Gaming is too expensive when a new game comes out every month with a subscription fee (mostly 15 USD) after you done bought the game and the game may or may not pan out after a few months or a year.
If I was to buy a PS4 or XBOX One game, I wouldn't have to pay a subscription fee for everyone of them. Plus I can put it in the console and play it anytime I want. Can't do that if game time runs out on PC and you don't have the money right away to resub. So Why should PC have to be subscription for every game? I own games that I don't really ever own on PC, because they keep costing me money monthly / yearly, and when i stop paying I can no longer play them. Does that make sense to you? That sounds like a great game? That sounds like the biggest scam ever.
There's not enough content additions, or world changes, or any changes in any game, every single month, worth $15 more dollars a month reoccurring. Do you get discounts, credit, or refunds, every time servers go down for weekly Maintenance or for long queue times? Nope.
The only reason most of you are defending the P2P games is because of the money you all ready lost (Invested) and sunk into your virtual world that you have to justify for being suckered into paying for a good time even if you think it's worth it. I fell for it too but no more. You are afraid that your P2P community will continue to lose interest, eventually lose activity and become a ghost town, and find a F2P or the next latest hot thing on the market that is worth playing more.
Anyways, F2P games gives everyone a chance to play MMORPG's, not just the rich and spoiled.
Plus it gives games like WOW a run for their money and keeps them from monopolizing the industry and making it flooded with greed.
I hate free to play because more often than not the game is sub-par and the communities are usually toxic.
I hate the people who post in the forums of non F2P games saying how much it sucks and they cant wait till it goes F2P.
The fact that someone says they like F2P but aren't willing to support it makes me question do they like the game or just like the free part.
One of reasons i really hate them is also included in your 2nd sentence. :-) Many good games were destroyed by such cheap people. For this reason started really to hate them. Many of those do not care at all for quality, complexity, ... just to be freeeee. Give me free launch, give me free room in hotel, give me free ride, give me free .... Disgusting.
For me is acceptable B2P like Gw2. But still nobody is working from pure altruism, employee need money to buy for eat, maintain family, ... and money must come from somewhere.
And another reason, my experience from past, before Wow, at the end of month I have concluded that I was paying for total crap of game compared to i.e. Wow more, even double or more, then would with sub quality game.
Originally posted by IMPYRE To me OP, it bring's in a certain type of crowd...
Kinda like DFUW's crowd? Or FFXIV's kind of crowd which by now we all know is crap, so... Still deciding if i should include EVE Online xD But the community there is a pile of garbage might be too unfair for you.
Originally posted by Ceryshen f2p games are designed with a cash shop in mind as the means to make a profit, whereas p2p games can only rely on the game being good and entertaining in order to profit. Not that f2p games can be crappy and still expect to make money, but often the games have intentionally annoying aspects built in to encourage the players to make cash shop purchases in order to not be so annoying. I just don't like that type of design.
You mean cash shops like WoW or like EVE Online? Both being P2P titles btw
Too many peoples are just playing to test the game, spam chat and don't care about anything.
You have to spend more money than a subscription to buy every items in the shop.
Because you have to spend money to unlock features.
Games are usually not good.
I love F2P because;
it's free, I can download, play and uninstall in the same day if I hate the game.
LoL is not an MMORPG, it's working fine because it's PvP. You can have fun for 5 years playing CoD in the same map but you cant have fun doing the same dungeon with your guild for 5 years...
PvE cost more money, if you play an MMORPG for PvP only, it can be the reason why you hate to pay, because almost all the money is used to create content for PvE, end-game, etc...
Pretty sure people here are playing a lot of MMORPG, and thoses people usually prefer F2P because they won't play the same game for years, but imagine someone playing WoW since 2004, this player want new content and want it fast, and want to pay to have the content... (I know Blizzard are slow sometime). My point is, if you always just level, pvp a little and stop playing before end-game and, you don't need to pay to play.
I don't dislike F2P. I just dislike many F2P games, mostly because of the methods used to get me to spend money, with a close second being the lack of variation in game play. Then there are the P2P games that go F2P, but who do so well after I've finished playing them. Going F2P does me no good in those cases.
So, as a model, I think it's great. I think a lot of developers could be much better about implementations though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't dislike F2P. I just dislike many F2P games, mostly because of the methods used to get me to spend money, with a close second being the lack of variation in game play. Then there are the P2P games that go F2P, but who do so well after I've finished playing them. Going F2P does me no good in those cases.
So, as a model, I think it's great. I think a lot of developers could be much better about implementations though.
+1
As lizardbones says there is nothing wrong with F2P. There is nothing right either
Free is the norm after all. An analogy - and its World Cup time so lets use a football (could be pretty much anything.) You buy a football - you don't pay to kick it about in your garden. It doesn't become useless after 30 days. You can rent stuff but not paying to use something is the norm. So we accept "free to play".
Of course retailers will do all they can to get you to buy boots, new strip every year, pictures of your heroes, hire a pitch and so on but you don't have to.
Crucially what retailers can do to "entice" you to spend money is limited. No subliminal advertising for example. More limited still when children are concerned.
At he moment when it comes to cash shops however - whether the game was "free" to download, purchased or some hybrid - there are fewer limitations. And many cash shops have used dubious tactics promoting an addiction.
Change is coming. The UK Office of Fair Trading report into the industry has been adopted by the EU as basis for EU wide legislation. And few companies will ignore EU wide legislation - it is to big a market. Companies grown rich on the sweat of addicts will - shock horror - actually have to focus on making good games or go under.
To reiterate what lizardbone's said: it is not about disliking (or liking) F2P. It is the fact that many - not all - F2P games are truly bad and the methods they employ offend what most people consider acceptable.
To paraphrase what someone posted a few years back here, most F2P games are like looking at a road filled with potholes and then you go to the cash shop and it's selling gravel. Why would I not hate how F2P has been put into practice by everyone but POE and maybe a few others?
Change is coming. The UK Office of Fair Trading report into the industry has been adopted by the EU as basis for EU wide legislation. And few companies will ignore EU wide legislation - it is to big a market. Companies grown rich on the sweat of addicts will - shock horror - actually have to focus on making good games or go under.
To reiterate what lizardbone's said: it is not about disliking (or liking) F2P. It is the fact that many - not all - F2P games are truly bad and the methods they employ offend what most people consider acceptable.
Lol, there's no danger of the exploitative F2P companies being forced to actually "make good games". They will devote their considerable resources and talent to clever ways of getting around the legislation, whichl will give them another 3 to 5 years before the whole process of closing those loopholes is finalised. At which point they'll find (or create) new loopholes...
Those companies aren't really interested in making good games, they're focused on making good money. Exploiting human psychology is their chief talent, the cheap browser games are just a means to an end.
I like F2P. It allows me to try games I probably wouldn't otherwise try, then decide if I want to support them or not.
IMO B2P is better because at least the developer gets some money from the initial launch of the game, assuming they did a good job advertising and beta testing and managed to get people interested in their game.
But I haven't played a F2P game that forces me to pay anything. By now, I've tried three: Tera, Rift, and Lineage II, all that used to be sub games, and I've only spent money in Rift because I wanted to.
Are they bad games because they are free? Not for me, I enjoyed the time I spent in them (edit: and still occasionally go back).
Saying a game is bad because it is free is somewhat like saying a TV channel is bad because it came with your cable, except, of course, you can choose to download the game or not, whereas the TV channel was given to you by your cable provider as part of your service package.
I like calling F2P "Free to pay" since there's no limit on how much you can pay.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I hate gameplay being sold and not played. Meaning they are taking things out of the game to be sold.
I like to be able to gage how much I am spending 15 a month I knew what I was getting. FTP you don't know.
The last thing I hate is that it takes consumer choice from the many and gives it to the few. While it's good that games to make money the genre correcting course by making products that an audience would buy doesn't exist. Instead of games failing and ones following it change things to make a quality game people will pay for. They reach for WoW audience/numbers or make generic games both then are supported by whales.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I hate gameplay being sold and not played. Meaning they are taking things out of the game to be sold.
I like to be able to gage how much I am spending 15 a month I knew what I was getting. FTP you don't know.
The last thing I hate is that it takes consumer choice from the many and gives it to the few. While it's good that games to make money the genre correcting course by making products that an audience would buy doesn't exist. Instead of games failing and ones following it change things to make a quality game people will pay for. They reach for WoW audience/numbers or make generic games both then are supported by whales.
A smart person always knows how much he/she is spending on things. I earn a good buck, yet I do count the dollars I use on the bus. Same goes for my gaming, be it F2P, B2P or P2P although I am struggling to find a good P2P game nowadays.
What I'm trying to say is, don't blame the wolf for going after the sheep.
Comments
i don't actually see how having to buy (as example) instance passes for 2 weeks if i wanna play em benefits me.
neither do i see how i get any benefit of NOT having the possibility to lvl up to max lvl (including so called "vet" lvls).
and again i don't see ANY benefit in people being able to buy better equipment than i get by playing the game.
so no, i dont hate f2p gmes (league of legends was done quite well... the game iteself).
the main prob actually is tho, that not making em pay for their game attracts alot of pricks, millions of pricks, because that's what mankind actually is. we are made out of idiots for surely at least an 80% (or even more, but hell, if i'd go for 99% i get a temp ban again hehe).
and, even worse, it attracts every kind of troll.
yea, i am paying for my game per month, but that actually enables me to enjoy the WHOLE game without having to think of buying extra stuff again and again and again, coz seriously....
no one makes a game "for free". we all wanna earn money. even devs.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Care to give an example of a good F2P?
people hate F2p cause they are those elitist jerks who cant accept that you can get the same content with lower price.
Like the hipsters who spend tons of money for an i-shit from apple while with the same money you can get the best of the best machines, but no they will get the crappy iMacs cause they are white and they look trendy .
The same stupid way of logic follow the subscription fans although the 90% of the latest p2p MMOs where crappy and far away from their AAA dreamed MMOs from their cloned fantasy of WoW . And to make this post racist, all those jerks come from US and they are stupid ppl who just have money but not brain to realize the world around them, even in their own city or country .
I love F2P games. Call me a leach or whatever. I bought the Collectors edition to Rift and SWTOR when they both first came out. I stopped playing both after awhile because my budget for gaming got real tight to where a $15 a month subscription was just too much to ask. When Rift went free to play, I jumped all over it and loved every minute of it plus still got to keep all my Collectors Edition items as a free player. They never once tried to convince me to subscribe or steer me towards to cash shop, plus the new content they added was as fresh as ever as a F2P.
SWTOR on the other hand as a F2P was/is a joke. Yeah they made me a Preffered Player or whatever, but they steer you towards subscription or the cash shop every chance they got. Needless to say, I cut my losses with SWTOR.
I bought the Collectors editions and was a founder on 2 games that both went free to play. I spent more money than average user that bought the regular editions or the free downloaded editions. Does this make me a leach to want to try and get the money's worth that I have felt like I spent in the past?
I looked at it Similarly to GW2 which I also bought the Digital Deluxe edition but as you know has no subscription fees but keeps adding new content.
My question is "Why does everyone that makes a PC MMORPG have to try to charge a subscription fee like WOW $15 or so a month when you all ready bought the game?" These companies are trying to bleed their customers dry. Not every game is worth $15 a month. Rift was worth it but is even better now that it is free to play.
WOW is a whole other topic, because those folks at Blizzard are greedy SOB's charging $50 every time a new expansion comes out, plus your usual subscription fees for game time. Expansions shouldn't be so high if you all ready own the core game and previous expansions just for 5 more level cap a class or 2 and maybe a new zone with some dungeons. The game is ancient now, It's not worth it. I've done spent well over $1000 in WOW if you count up all the months/years I've played plus the Expansions that I bought at full retail price. That's enough money to buy parts to build a new custom PC to play the newer games with better graphics that are F2P. How much more support do them greedy people need? Because of people like you and me being suckers and paying it, They'll never stop rinsing and repeating at Blizzard. Other companies are looking at Blizzard saying "If they are getting rich off the suckers, why shouldn't We do the same Thing" I stopped for now though to test the F2P market to save some money and give other companies support and a chance.
Gaming is too expensive when a new game comes out every month with a subscription fee (mostly 15 USD) after you done bought the game and the game may or may not pan out after a few months or a year.
If I was to buy a PS4 or XBOX One game, I wouldn't have to pay a subscription fee for everyone of them. Plus I can put it in the console and play it anytime I want. Can't do that if game time runs out on PC and you don't have the money right away to resub. So Why should PC have to be subscription for every game? I own games that I don't really ever own on PC, because they keep costing me money monthly / yearly, and when i stop paying I can no longer play them. Does that make sense to you? That sounds like a great game? That sounds like the biggest scam ever.
There's not enough content additions, or world changes, or any changes in any game, every single month, worth $15 more dollars a month reoccurring. Do you get discounts, credit, or refunds, every time servers go down for weekly Maintenance or for long queue times? Nope.
The only reason most of you are defending the P2P games is because of the money you all ready lost (Invested) and sunk into your virtual world that you have to justify for being suckered into paying for a good time even if you think it's worth it. I fell for it too but no more. You are afraid that your P2P community will continue to lose interest, eventually lose activity and become a ghost town, and find a F2P or the next latest hot thing on the market that is worth playing more.
Anyways, F2P games gives everyone a chance to play MMORPG's, not just the rich and spoiled.
Plus it gives games like WOW a run for their money and keeps them from monopolizing the industry and making it flooded with greed.
Freedom of Choice.
One of reasons i really hate them is also included in your 2nd sentence. :-) Many good games were destroyed by such cheap people. For this reason started really to hate them. Many of those do not care at all for quality, complexity, ... just to be freeeee. Give me free launch, give me free room in hotel, give me free ride, give me free .... Disgusting.
For me is acceptable B2P like Gw2. But still nobody is working from pure altruism, employee need money to buy for eat, maintain family, ... and money must come from somewhere.
And another reason, my experience from past, before Wow, at the end of month I have concluded that I was paying for total crap of game compared to i.e. Wow more, even double or more, then would with sub quality game.
Kinda like DFUW's crowd? Or FFXIV's kind of crowd which by now we all know is crap, so... Still deciding if i should include EVE Online xD But the community there is a pile of garbage might be too unfair for you.
You mean cash shops like WoW or like EVE Online? Both being P2P titles btw
I dislike F2P because;
I don't dislike F2P. I just dislike many F2P games, mostly because of the methods used to get me to spend money, with a close second being the lack of variation in game play. Then there are the P2P games that go F2P, but who do so well after I've finished playing them. Going F2P does me no good in those cases.
So, as a model, I think it's great. I think a lot of developers could be much better about implementations though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
+1
As lizardbones says there is nothing wrong with F2P. There is nothing right either
Free is the norm after all. An analogy - and its World Cup time so lets use a football (could be pretty much anything.) You buy a football - you don't pay to kick it about in your garden. It doesn't become useless after 30 days. You can rent stuff but not paying to use something is the norm. So we accept "free to play".
Of course retailers will do all they can to get you to buy boots, new strip every year, pictures of your heroes, hire a pitch and so on but you don't have to.
Crucially what retailers can do to "entice" you to spend money is limited. No subliminal advertising for example. More limited still when children are concerned.
At he moment when it comes to cash shops however - whether the game was "free" to download, purchased or some hybrid - there are fewer limitations. And many cash shops have used dubious tactics promoting an addiction.
Change is coming. The UK Office of Fair Trading report into the industry has been adopted by the EU as basis for EU wide legislation. And few companies will ignore EU wide legislation - it is to big a market. Companies grown rich on the sweat of addicts will - shock horror - actually have to focus on making good games or go under.
To reiterate what lizardbone's said: it is not about disliking (or liking) F2P. It is the fact that many - not all - F2P games are truly bad and the methods they employ offend what most people consider acceptable.
Lol, there's no danger of the exploitative F2P companies being forced to actually "make good games". They will devote their considerable resources and talent to clever ways of getting around the legislation, whichl will give them another 3 to 5 years before the whole process of closing those loopholes is finalised. At which point they'll find (or create) new loopholes...
Those companies aren't really interested in making good games, they're focused on making good money. Exploiting human psychology is their chief talent, the cheap browser games are just a means to an end.
I like F2P. It allows me to try games I probably wouldn't otherwise try, then decide if I want to support them or not.
IMO B2P is better because at least the developer gets some money from the initial launch of the game, assuming they did a good job advertising and beta testing and managed to get people interested in their game.
But I haven't played a F2P game that forces me to pay anything. By now, I've tried three: Tera, Rift, and Lineage II, all that used to be sub games, and I've only spent money in Rift because I wanted to.
Are they bad games because they are free? Not for me, I enjoyed the time I spent in them (edit: and still occasionally go back).
Saying a game is bad because it is free is somewhat like saying a TV channel is bad because it came with your cable, except, of course, you can choose to download the game or not, whereas the TV channel was given to you by your cable provider as part of your service package.
I don't hate F2P mmorpgs, I hate the message that they bring most of the time:
wallet > player count > gameplay experience
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I like to be able to gage how much I am spending 15 a month I knew what I was getting. FTP you don't know.
The last thing I hate is that it takes consumer choice from the many and gives it to the few. While it's good that games to make money the genre correcting course by making products that an audience would buy doesn't exist. Instead of games failing and ones following it change things to make a quality game people will pay for. They reach for WoW audience/numbers or make generic games both then are supported by whales.
A smart person always knows how much he/she is spending on things. I earn a good buck, yet I do count the dollars I use on the bus. Same goes for my gaming, be it F2P, B2P or P2P although I am struggling to find a good P2P game nowadays.
What I'm trying to say is, don't blame the wolf for going after the sheep.
So? You can grind for them. If you hate "gameplay" not being played, you can always go the "playing" route yourself.
Why would you care how others enjoy their game?