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How to save Wildstar
It's really pretty simple.
In order for any game to survive it requires a strong diverse community. By diverse I mean players who like different aspects of gameplay that as a whole compliment each other. For example players that don't raid heavily but enjoy time gathering or crafting vs players that raid extensively.
Wildstars biggest failing right now is the relative inaccessibility of endgame content to all but a small percentage of players willing to devote the time to run it. Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
The result of this gap will be a quick and severe drop in subscriptions which will have a chain of effects felt all the way to the top. There will be less players gathering and selling materials, same with crafting. Less players providing a strong economy means inflation and a lack of readily available materials which will result in end game players needing to spend even more time in those areas... resulting in more burn out. It's a vicious circle.
Carbine has displayed a huge amount of arrogance in their approach to game design by refusing to recognize that the majority of players are NOT hardcore and in the end this arrogance will be the undoing of the game. Unless this attitude changes and end game content is made more accessible the game will wither and die. Raiding guilds are seeing this already today with many folding or needing to merge just to keep 20man raids going.
Carbine: Learn from the lessons of games before you (the ones you've already essentially copied in most regards) and fix this issue. Here's how (and this isn't anything new, more like common sense)
1. Raid finder.
2. Normal vs "Veteran" modes
3. Bronze medals for attunement
4. 10 man raids
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
I like the game and want it to remain strong but the writing is on the wall. Players are quitting in droves and the leaks need fixed. It's not difficult to figure out but I fear it IS difficult to change when you're core culture is one of blind arrogance and misplaced pride.
Comments
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first thing: this game does NOT require skill. bashing 3 buttons is not about the skill. its all about the TIME. so what separates casual players from "hardcore" players? its the lack of TIME.
this game suffers from boring leveling and very low xp for finished tasks, dungeons, etc. then there is pvp issue. its just one big chaotic mess. nothing else.
regarding leveling - gw2 should be an example of a good leveling experience.i leveled in ws to lvl 40 and i canceled my subscription and said to myself - f**k this. wont get back until carbine increase xp gain for everything.
Couldnt you say that about any game? Call of duty isnt skill basedyou are just pushing 1 button. Dark Souls isnt skill based you just push 2 buttons. Etc, etc.
The sky is falling......
In this we can agree.
No the instances do not need to be toned down at all. And no its not a Lack of time for casuals its lack of will to learn something that is hard. You know how I know, I am a casual player but others like me seem to only want Faceroll content they dont want to learn to kite, CC, Kill order, or anything players needed in Classic and BC. Today if you cannot gather 3 groups up and AOE them down in a few seconds and if the instance takes longer than 15 mins with and wipes once they cry it needs to be nerf. No matter what.
WildStar's root problem is 20 and 40 man raids. No one but a few select group of raiders has time for that crap again. Thats it not that the content is hard or takes 45 mins to an hour for a 5 man and requires teamwork. Its plain and simple too driven on large scale raiding. O and Action Combat. Tab Target is the way to go. The older folks are getting to the point that twitch gaming does not work anymore
OP...
Have you considered that some companies would rather not have every single person like their game? If they make the game for hardcore players, why appease players that are not hardcore...if only to boost subscription numbers?
I don't like Wildstar, but I would commend them for sticking to their guns and developing the game for the people they wanted to in the first place. A themepark doesn't need casuals and hardcore players to play nice... A sandbox/sandpark game does.
Now saying the above, if Carbine changes their mind and goes for the majority of the world (who may not even be gamers)...that's their prerogative. They can do what they want, they'll just be making the prime design strategy much more shallow as time is taken away to appease those that may not be their original playerbase.
HUGE NO to raid finder. That is one of the biggest things that has sent Wow on a downward spiral out of control. Its a TERRBILE system to have. The issue is that most games today have shown how NOT to do end game rather then how to.
I don't think at all anything shows a sign of it needing to be saved yet, though I do agree in the long term things need to be simplified. Attunement should be a much quicker process then it is. Less tedium and more emphasis on difficulty. People want difficulty, if wow has shown, having things pretty much "here it is everyone, have fun seeing it all!" has shown that it just makes people far less compelled to play. There is a reason that wow has tried to shift away at least to an extent with how the content is handled for the new expansion to be more hardcore, pushing away from raid finder to an extent they are able to (unfortunately its difficult to remove a change made to a game and likely can't ever be fully undone).
Most people aren't hardcore, no, but casuals WANT challenge, even if they don't realize it. If the tedium is gone I really feel the game can do great for casual players looking for challenge. I feel they aren't arrogant at all in their approach, if anything they are just simply a bit over-zealous.
Again though, its extremely early to even make the claim that Wildstar needs 'saving'. Heck, I can say that its early to say the same about ESO despite being out for a few months now.
This is a nice post and I mostly agree.
The game does not need to tonedown the difficulty. The people that complain about difficulty would most likely leave anyway. There is a large percentage of MMO players that are box sale players only who do not have the attention span or patience to actually play a MMO other than whining on forums. These players buy the box to every game then quickly leave. Let them go, the game will be better off without them.
In regards to raids I disagree. Raiding does not take much time. Lots of guilds progress on 3 night a week schedules. 9hours a week is not much to ask. Wildstar is ultimately about raiding. Once a guild gets a dungeon it quickly drops down to one night a week. Raiding at leats competitve raiding can be very non time intensive if one is in a good guild. Raiding is the big draw of the game and why the devs left Blizzard in 2005 to form Carbine. There are almost no raid games left. EQ1/EQ2 are old, and Rift went easymode. Wildstar is the only hope for raiding guilds.
I do agree with you on the action combat to extent. I think its well done but I do think they went overboard to much on it. Raiding has been progressing this in this direction to becoming all movement based. I think there is simply to much emphasis in WS on movement and it limits the playerbase in dungeons and raids. There are lots of other ways to make dungeons and raids hard. WS dungeons have an individual skill that is quite severe but for overall difficulty Rift's dungeons were harder and more exclusive the 1st month of release before the big nerf. Rift IMO did a much better job of balancing difficulty, movement and the individual skill check. But Wildstar is what it is and if one accepts it for what it is it is a very good game.
When I think about what Carbine has done, a game focused on raiders. I often think back to the vanilla wow days having these types of grinds and difficulties can be healthy for a mmo as well. Because many of these so called hardcore players that are attracted to this type of game play usually end up being the glue that binds the community together. The last few days I have been starting to think while they did clone a lot of WoW maybe it wasn't their goal to really offer a exact copy of what is currently available in WoW as far as end game play goes.
Maybe Carbine doesn't really care about catering to the masses and they want to keep their end game time consuming and tough. I know for fact that there will be a lot of players that will enjoy this style of game play enough to keep this game going for years. I also think Carbine wanted tough dungeons and raids to really try to foster a mmo community. From all my experiences you need some friends or guild mates to run the end game content that know what they are doing.
For a lot of people that are used to the LFR and LFD tools of WoW they are going to be really put off by this because it adds a extra layer of work to complete the content. So many mmos now with the cross server group tools (while adding convenience) have eroded away mmo communities a lot. I think the game has some interesting concepts though which I'd like to see used for upcoming mmos that have a better art style and story.
I think this games biggest issue is that the story and art style are just boring my opinion of course there is nothing that really grabs you and sucks you in. Totally got the feeling of been there done that when I started playing. Oh yah and this games intro has to be the single most boring intro I have ever experienced in a mmo that drags on for almost 20 levels. That is definitely not doing it any favors!
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
Pretty much this ^
honestly, I couldn't care less. There are more than enough people playing to keep me active and I've found the game to be extremely fun.
These are two great posts and I agree with them.
I think that Carbine could continue to develope some of the non-raid endgame stuff like making endgame crafting really viable, continuing on developing housing, and continuing to develope good solo and small group play elements. Unlike WoW classic which was pretty much exclusively raid, raid, raid, I think that the other gameplay elements in WS are so robust this game does not have to be all about raiding at the endgame.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I hear the OP, but the suggestions sound like what WoW currently is and people playing WS don't want a wow clone?
And listening to the community - wasn't there just recently a high profile game (can't remember which) where the forums is full of people screaming in favor of pvp/raid (the majority > 70? 80?) but ingame only like 10% or less do raids. So I guess it's a bit difficult for developers to "listen" to community of metrics show different. And in-game behaviour is one thing, "formal" requests is different. Unfortunately.
So, OP, you should post on the official forums, at least give it a shot - and maybe they will listen in the end? I know it's far fetched, but posting here only helps venting frustration.
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Youtube newb:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96N3cxBuqKTPV2BQNlzGUw
http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/23171/article/wildstar-review-one-month-later/
9/10
Why would this game need saving?
Twitter - @theNILV
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It doesn't need saving...
You just have to find something else to play...
Oh wait, they all need saving too...
What will you ever do?
No one pays a monthly sub just for housing.
Honestly, I quit not because of the game mechanics or lack of x feature but because of the support staff which neglected my case for 3 weeks only to close it out without a resolution or an answer to any question asked of them.
The support staff is incompetent and it reflects poorly on the entire company.
Basically #5 is all that matters...
The only thing that kills games like this is shit community...
"speed runs, gear score, achievement linking" are all by products of elitist e-peenism, that basically segregates the community, as opposed to promote community gameplay.
A raid finder would only make an already crappy situation worse... It's bad enough most people will just quit a group if someone dies because they can no longer get "gold". Most people are just selfish assholes who are only out for their own good.
This is basically "Angry Birds" style gameplay where all you care about is getting 3 Stars. If you're not first your last!
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
I think the main issue with accessibility in WS's endgame is not necessarily the difficulty (at least for raiding), but the amount of players/time required. Attunement is a pretty tedious endeavor and raids requiring 40 people is just absurd. I know there are 20 man raids, but those raids are technically lower tier then the 40. So there are two problems. One problem is that all raids should have a 20/40 man version if they stick to those numbers, which they should NOT. I really think they should do 10/20 man.
This would allow for a steady progression in the game through raid content with the raid size of your choice. They are also going to run into HUGE problems when they start adding new tiers of raids. What tier will the 20 man be? The tier after the 40? If it is the tier after the 40, then that 40 man turns into two 20 man raids and the 20 man raids are left in the dust since they would have to convert to 40.
Sure, the new 20 man could be on par with the new 40 man in terms of gear / difficulty, but then what happens? People in the 40 don't end up caring about the new 20 man since they have gear already that matches it, and they become 20 man guilds just in time for the new 40 man raid to come out.
Raids are only part of the problem. You can't have a game where dungeons are a stepping stone to raiding content where the dungeons are hard for people to pug. I am sorry, that just doesn't work. It has never proven to work, either. They tried this in TBC and it worked very poorly. The result was changing dungeons to be easier and a peak number of players during the period where they did so. *Hard mode* dungeons should not be the primary path towards raiding, they should be an alternative to raiding for people who don't have time for it with slightly less rewarding gear. Tbh I don't think hardcore 5 man dungeons really even have a place in a raiding game, but that might just be me.
What does this leave for casual players? Adventurers arguably (these are still pretty tough for pugs), daily quests, Housing, and PvP we have seen in pretty much every other game but even more broken then normal due to the combat system. I am sorry, but that won't keep casual players. The housing system is great, but that won't keep people playing the game alone. Someone who tells you that is probably lying to you, especially since you have to complete a lot of challenging content just to get access to some of the housing stuff. There are also some pretty good housing systems in other games that have far more content for casual players. (EG: EQ2,LOTRO,Rift)
Oh then you have Warplots...40 vs 40? Really? So not only do raids have a requirement of 40 players, but there is a giant PvP battleground that requires 80 total players? WITH MATCHMAKING? Seriously they must have had some screws loose when they thought of this one. I would be amazed if more then a few of these ques even pop a day, hell, a week. Let alone with properly balanced teams on a similar skill level fighting each other.
1. Raid finder.
People give up in a 5 man dungeon as it is, Raid Finder is a horrible system imo. I'd rather see a change of 10-20 man raids and 20v20 warplots to address this issue.
2. Normal vs "Veteran" modes
I see no problem here, save that I don't like the idea of grinding the same content over and over again as it is. Ergo I have a fundamental problem with how endgame is created and viewed in themepark mmos. I think the endgame should be where the sandbox opens up, and the ride there should be the themepark and story heavy elements. But that's just me. Overall the easier difficulty mode would allow for a more fun and laid back approach to the dungeons, and allow them to suit casual players more, as well as add a step to becoming a more "hardcore" player once the boredom and tedium of the normal modes set in.
3. Bronze medals for attunement
Not sure but the recent update/hotfix seemed to up the rewards for the dungeons overall. Didn't quite make it this far, but it's a step in the right direction. All in all, I support this idea considering the amount of time it takes to get attuned.
4. 10 man raids
Yes. Please. It is hard enough to find cool people to play with let alone 40. 10 is a great number for raiding and I think it's needed in Wildstar to make raiding accessible to more players. Side note, Guild Wars 2 could stand for some 10 man instanced content.
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
Well here's where I kinda disagree, though not on the point, but I think Carbine has shown they are listening to player feedback and they will make the changes needed to make the game better. I think they will stick to having their 40 mans and stuff, but they seem to be creative to an extent of finding ways to make players happy without ruining their vision for the game. "The Devs are listening" is something I hope holds true, as I plan to play Wildstar until there's nobody left or something truly better and unique comes out. Wildstar is the last themepark I will play that follows this path.
We need a dev to make a themepark for leveling and a sandbox for endgame. With all the bells and whistles of both. Non-instanced world with some instanced content for balance and control. Zones with pure sandbox play and zones with pure pve themepark play. WIldstar has the right idea with housing and such, and they are closer to a "perfect game" for me then Gw2 was, but overall there just seems like it should and could be alot more with the systems they allready have in-game. They took so many good things from so many other mmo's but they failed to capture some of the advancements and trends we've seen in the last few years. A bit more voice acting would mean better leveling(not every quest though.. good grief swtor), more non-instanced sandbox play at endgame would mean unlimited content(and allow for competition with Eqn, AA, and other sandboxes coming out). These are just a few select lessons other dev's have learned the hard way and over time. Carbine needs to find a balance for catering to both hardcore and casual players, just like WoW does. I hate to say that, but you really need both communities in your game to make it successful. Right now I'm not sure if either are going to stay for very long.
ps: games are better with friends. I play with my wife, so the game is totally different for me then someone who can only play alone. Plus Wildstar rewards the hell out of us for playing together. Renown is the shit. Moral of the story, marry your best gamer girl friend.
Would it be considered Rent at that point?
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.