The game has only been out for a little more than a month. Where is your proof people are leaving in mass numbers?
I haven't seen numbers in people playing decrease. I have seen it only increase. The queue times are very short compared to when it released. In some of the 1-5 things you listed I disagree. I think it comes down to laziness on your part. You want to raid, find you a guild. Game to hard for you, find another. People like you with this thinking is what brought many games down to no challenge.
Yes there are some bugs, but not as many as other mmo's I have played this soon after launch.
Considering they have over a years worth of new content coming, month by month, in time you will see the game was never lost, just a challenge. Are you up to the challenge?
ps: games are better with friends. I play with my wife, so the game is totally different for me then someone who can only play alone. Plus Wildstar rewards the hell out of us for playing together. Renown is the shit. Moral of the story, marry your best gamer girl friend.
This (red) in spades! I cannot tell you how awesome it is to have a partner in life that will play these with you. My wife has tried EVERY game that I've suggested and sometimes pulls me into a game that I wouldn't have given two shits about, only to have a BLAST.
I know that doesn't help with OPs topic, of which, I really don't want a raid finder (WoW decline, as others have said); and the community is only as good as the players who support the newbies and almost attuned. The rest of the grip is, IMO, tripe.
1. Unless you've done the raids, watching the videos of boss encounters barely counts... you need to be skilled enough and it doesnt come down a time situation, once you've done a dungeon once and know he strategies, know when and what to interrupt what to skip etc.. it comes down to pure skill, your ability to finish the encounters in the time limit and get the challenges a long the way. Back on point, the pre game to the raids is all about preparing you for the raids, the dungeons are tuned hard because the raids are even harder again. In some cases the trash is harder then some of the mini bosses.
2. if the above is a problem maybe wildstar isnt the game for you.. not trying to sound like a dick, but as someone who has put in the time and consistently puts in the skill and effort to complete the content to be raiding and killing bosses in a raid, i do not want to see it dumbed down with raid finders, easier content etc... because as it is getting carried or paying for attunement dungeon runs shows when you get into a raid... with no battle rezzes, tight encounter times n such... people need to be at the top of their game.. and doing the attunement prepares you for everything thats coming.
lol raidfinder ppl cant even pug oregon .. erm i mean malgrave trail and you expect any pug to survive the raids in this game?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
In order for any game to survive it requires a strong diverse community. By diverse I mean players who like different aspects of gameplay that as a whole compliment each other. For example players that don't raid heavily but enjoy time gathering or crafting vs players that raid extensively.
Wildstars biggest failing right now is the relative inaccessibility of endgame content to all but a small percentage of players willing to devote the time to run it. Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
The result of this gap will be a quick and severe drop in subscriptions which will have a chain of effects felt all the way to the top. There will be less players gathering and selling materials, same with crafting. Less players providing a strong economy means inflation and a lack of readily available materials which will result in end game players needing to spend even more time in those areas... resulting in more burn out. It's a vicious circle.
Carbine has displayed a huge amount of arrogance in their approach to game design by refusing to recognize that the majority of players are NOT hardcore and in the end this arrogance will be the undoing of the game. Unless this attitude changes and end game content is made more accessible the game will wither and die. Raiding guilds are seeing this already today with many folding or needing to merge just to keep 20man raids going.
Carbine: Learn from the lessons of games before you (the ones you've already essentially copied in most regards) and fix this issue. Here's how (and this isn't anything new, more like common sense)
1. Raid finder.
2. Normal vs "Veteran" modes
3. Bronze medals for attunement
4. 10 man raids
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
I like the game and want it to remain strong but the writing is on the wall. Players are quitting in droves and the leaks need fixed. It's not difficult to figure out but I fear it IS difficult to change when you're core culture is one of blind arrogance and misplaced pride.
I couldn't agree more on the casual content aspect of this post. This game desperately needs something to keep players in the game, right now there isn't nearly enough for an average gamer. I do think they need to fix the bugs in the game first, and concentrate on releasing content accessible to more people than just a tiny fraction of a minority, but that can come after the optimize the game, fix the combat mechanics and bugs, and continue to refine the UI.
They keep stacking content on content (which was very buggy btw) without fixing the core issues affecting the game. Carbine needs to slow down, stop, rethink their priorities, and start again. They are full steam ahead on these content drops that aren't going to do any good if the game is unplayable for most of the player base.
This is the same road GW2 traveled where they pretty much gave the player base the middle finger and went full steam ahead all the way through LS Season 1. Now they are rethinking just pushing out mindless cash shop content every two weeks in favor of something that will actually fix problems in the game and keep people playing long term. Waiting for content is not a bad thing if the content is worth it.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
There should always be more content for casuals to participate in. That i absolutely agree with.
Raiding, on the other hand, should not be accessible to everyone. It's a specific game mode that requires specific types of individuals. It always has. Exclusivity is a good thing and something that has been desperately missing for years now.
No, the "mistake" Carbine is making is the same one Trion made with Rift. In order for the 5% raiding crowd to survive, they need the other 95% to stick around as a means for recruitment. That's accomplished by giving non raiders tons of stuff to do so they stick around. Otherwise you're left with the same free fall that occurred in Rift where the only way to maintain a riding crew is to poach players from other raiding crews. Eventually you'll be left with one or no raiding guilds per server.
In short, making content more accessible is not the answer. Making more content that's accessible is. Players need something difficult and elusive to strive towards.
so your simple answer is to turn it even more into wow... shm
changing the quests / task or whatever the hell people want to call em would be a start its soo horrid and bland but thats just 1 of many things
when are people gonna get over the fact its not "wow 2" seems like every mmo that comes out now people are wanting more and more wow elements other than being more creative or "pushing the buttons" to make it unique or stand alone
I have a hard time believing WS is in trouble already. From what i've read, it's a solid game. Is it really losing that many players after being out for less than 2 months? I can start believeing it when/if they have server merges.
Carbine: Learn from the lessons of games before you (the ones you've already essentially copied in most regards) and fix this issue. Here's how (and this isn't anything new, more like common sense)
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
erm, isn't it "arrogant" to expect a game company to change something that they always said they would have to match what you want? Well, let's see.
ar·ro·gant
/aregent/
adjective: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
"Casual" does not mean "un-skilled". "Casual" just means "has other things to do other than gaming". So the difficulty is not always the problem for casual gamers. Time investment is. I simply don't have the time (or inclination) to run a 4 hour raid any more, whereas I used to happily run 8+ hour raids in EQ.
Right in the same boat. Man, life...amirite?
I just cancelled my sub a few minutes ago after reading some comments on Reddit. And don't get me wrong, these kind of comments have been flying since before release, but basically they all say that if you cannot devote hours upon hours to this game, there is nothing at endgame for you. I get to play MAYBE 30 minutes, 3 days a week, so while I may enjoy the time I get to pop in now, it sounds like at level 50 it wont be worth it to sub.
<incoming comment from someone trying to equate No Free Time with Not Wanting to Learn>
Anyway, WS is a solid game and fun to boot. I would recommend to anyone who has tons of free time. I hope they can keep it hardcore niche to keep the initial supporters happy.
Carbine: Learn from the lessons of games before you (the ones you've already essentially copied in most regards) and fix this issue. Here's how (and this isn't anything new, more like common sense)
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
erm, isn't it "arrogant" to expect a game company to change something that they always said they would have to match what you want? Well, let's see.
ar·ro·gant
/aregent/
adjective: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
/EndThread
From the jump off they said WildStar would be like this, and they had no plans to change it. WildStar had multiple Beta weekends, and an Open Beta. OP if you didn't know this ahead of time, it really isn't Carbines fault.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Whatever state the end game is in right now has nothing to do with any kind of hardcore gamer philosophy - the entire game is incomplete and Carbine is struggling to add content and fix bugs. What we're seeing right now is a hastily crafted end game to plug a hole where a plug was needed, made to be difficult so that the smallest bits of content can be stretched as far as possible.
To anyone who says that "if the game is too hardcore for you; it isn't for you..."
The game won't be for anyone if Carbine is not willing to accept that it needs to be a game for everyone, just like every successful MMO.
Merely by being here it's successful. Not even WoW caters to all... it caters to the casuals yes, but it doesn't cater to all. Therefore, you DON'T have to make the game for EVERYONE if you want to be successful.
There are NO games that cater to all. So by your definition, NO GAME is successful.
P.S. If that successful game you are referring to is so successful, why are you even here... oh wait... it's not all that now is it?
OP I have to really disagree with you, in order for a game to thrive or survive, it has to be a decent game to start with. I am truly not trashing WS however it seems easy to me to see why this game is failing....it simply is not a good game.
To anyone who says that "if the game is too hardcore for you; it isn't for you..."
The game won't be for anyone if Carbine is not willing to accept that it needs to be a game for everyone, just like every successful MMO.
I couldn't agree more. I reallllly want to see the initial sales numbers and the sub numbers 3 months in after most people hit 50 and run up against that attunement wall. Would be interesting to see the drop off.
I don't know what path Wildstar is going to head down, but it's going to have to make some dramatic changes or face losing a LOT of people.
It possibly could have been a niche game if it was developed with a different publisher and for a lot less money (100+ million dollars to develop). Then I could see it sitting comfortably alongside EvE in the niche MMO game category.
I don't see NCSoft being OK with that. They'll drop the hammer at some point.
Whatever state the end game is in right now has nothing to do with any kind of hardcore gamer philosophy - the entire game is incomplete and Carbine is struggling to add content and fix bugs. What we're seeing right now is a hastily crafted end game to plug a hole where a plug was needed, made to be difficult so that the smallest bits of content can be stretched as far as possible.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. This a million times. They already admitted in one of their live streams that they will NOT have further attunements like this. I believe they used the words "horrific" in explaining the current attunement. In another live stream, when the lead raid designer was explaining the current attunement process, the community managers who host the live stream were left with their mouths open unable to speak. I'm sure they were thinking "ok...THIS explains why my job has been hell the past month". One of them even said "What the Frick! I didn't know it was THAT hardcore!" and he wasn't saying it in the sarcastic "oh bro...that IS hardcore hyuk hyuk". He really meant it. It was a very telling moment.
I see nothing wrong with guilds merge or alliances (ala Lineage 2 style). Unite to fight biggest baddest mofo out there. OP are you one of them guys who created a guild and feels themselves as a north korea's supreme leader?
Also I didn't know W* needs saving. It's quite fun actually the way it is now. In time people will learn which guilds to join. Every man for himself might not work in this game.
I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to always design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Comments
How can the game be saved when its not even lost?
The game has only been out for a little more than a month. Where is your proof people are leaving in mass numbers?
I haven't seen numbers in people playing decrease. I have seen it only increase. The queue times are very short compared to when it released. In some of the 1-5 things you listed I disagree. I think it comes down to laziness on your part. You want to raid, find you a guild. Game to hard for you, find another. People like you with this thinking is what brought many games down to no challenge.
Yes there are some bugs, but not as many as other mmo's I have played this soon after launch.
Considering they have over a years worth of new content coming, month by month, in time you will see the game was never lost, just a challenge. Are you up to the challenge?
This (red) in spades! I cannot tell you how awesome it is to have a partner in life that will play these with you. My wife has tried EVERY game that I've suggested and sometimes pulls me into a game that I wouldn't have given two shits about, only to have a BLAST.
I know that doesn't help with OPs topic, of which, I really don't want a raid finder (WoW decline, as others have said); and the community is only as good as the players who support the newbies and almost attuned. The rest of the grip is, IMO, tripe.
2 things
1. Unless you've done the raids, watching the videos of boss encounters barely counts... you need to be skilled enough and it doesnt come down a time situation, once you've done a dungeon once and know he strategies, know when and what to interrupt what to skip etc.. it comes down to pure skill, your ability to finish the encounters in the time limit and get the challenges a long the way. Back on point, the pre game to the raids is all about preparing you for the raids, the dungeons are tuned hard because the raids are even harder again. In some cases the trash is harder then some of the mini bosses.
2. if the above is a problem maybe wildstar isnt the game for you.. not trying to sound like a dick, but as someone who has put in the time and consistently puts in the skill and effort to complete the content to be raiding and killing bosses in a raid, i do not want to see it dumbed down with raid finders, easier content etc... because as it is getting carried or paying for attunement dungeon runs shows when you get into a raid... with no battle rezzes, tight encounter times n such... people need to be at the top of their game.. and doing the attunement prepares you for everything thats coming.
lol raidfinder
ppl cant even pug oregon .. erm i mean malgrave trail and you expect any pug to survive the raids in this game?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I couldn't agree more on the casual content aspect of this post. This game desperately needs something to keep players in the game, right now there isn't nearly enough for an average gamer. I do think they need to fix the bugs in the game first, and concentrate on releasing content accessible to more people than just a tiny fraction of a minority, but that can come after the optimize the game, fix the combat mechanics and bugs, and continue to refine the UI.
They keep stacking content on content (which was very buggy btw) without fixing the core issues affecting the game. Carbine needs to slow down, stop, rethink their priorities, and start again. They are full steam ahead on these content drops that aren't going to do any good if the game is unplayable for most of the player base.
This is the same road GW2 traveled where they pretty much gave the player base the middle finger and went full steam ahead all the way through LS Season 1. Now they are rethinking just pushing out mindless cash shop content every two weeks in favor of something that will actually fix problems in the game and keep people playing long term. Waiting for content is not a bad thing if the content is worth it.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
There should always be more content for casuals to participate in. That i absolutely agree with.
Raiding, on the other hand, should not be accessible to everyone. It's a specific game mode that requires specific types of individuals. It always has. Exclusivity is a good thing and something that has been desperately missing for years now.
No, the "mistake" Carbine is making is the same one Trion made with Rift. In order for the 5% raiding crowd to survive, they need the other 95% to stick around as a means for recruitment. That's accomplished by giving non raiders tons of stuff to do so they stick around. Otherwise you're left with the same free fall that occurred in Rift where the only way to maintain a riding crew is to poach players from other raiding crews. Eventually you'll be left with one or no raiding guilds per server.
In short, making content more accessible is not the answer. Making more content that's accessible is. Players need something difficult and elusive to strive towards.
Housing is not worth $15 a month.
so your simple answer is to turn it even more into wow... shm
changing the quests / task or whatever the hell people want to call em would be a start its soo horrid and bland but thats just 1 of many things
when are people gonna get over the fact its not "wow 2" seems like every mmo that comes out now people are wanting more and more wow elements other than being more creative or "pushing the buttons" to make it unique or stand alone
erm, isn't it "arrogant" to expect a game company to change something that they always said they would have to match what you want? Well, let's see.
ar·ro·gant
/aregent/
adjective: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Right in the same boat. Man, life...amirite?
I just cancelled my sub a few minutes ago after reading some comments on Reddit. And don't get me wrong, these kind of comments have been flying since before release, but basically they all say that if you cannot devote hours upon hours to this game, there is nothing at endgame for you. I get to play MAYBE 30 minutes, 3 days a week, so while I may enjoy the time I get to pop in now, it sounds like at level 50 it wont be worth it to sub.
<incoming comment from someone trying to equate No Free Time with Not Wanting to Learn>
Anyway, WS is a solid game and fun to boot. I would recommend to anyone who has tons of free time. I hope they can keep it hardcore niche to keep the initial supporters happy.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
F2P in 6 months once end game raiders get bored.
You read it here first!
/EndThread
From the jump off they said WildStar would be like this, and they had no plans to change it. WildStar had multiple Beta weekends, and an Open Beta. OP if you didn't know this ahead of time, it really isn't Carbines fault.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Whatever state the end game is in right now has nothing to do with any kind of hardcore gamer philosophy - the entire game is incomplete and Carbine is struggling to add content and fix bugs. What we're seeing right now is a hastily crafted end game to plug a hole where a plug was needed, made to be difficult so that the smallest bits of content can be stretched as far as possible.
I agree with you OP
In order for Wildstar to survive it must be exactly what "Me, Myself and I" want. Because I'm a lot smarter then those dumb game dev's.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Name one.
I got an even simpler way:
Rename the game to WoWstar.
Fixed.
To anyone who says that "if the game is too hardcore for you; it isn't for you..."
The game won't be for anyone if Carbine is not willing to accept that it needs to be a game for everyone, just like every successful MMO.
Merely by being here it's successful. Not even WoW caters to all... it caters to the casuals yes, but it doesn't cater to all. Therefore, you DON'T have to make the game for EVERYONE if you want to be successful.
There are NO games that cater to all. So by your definition, NO GAME is successful.
P.S. If that successful game you are referring to is so successful, why are you even here... oh wait... it's not all that now is it?
I couldn't agree more. I reallllly want to see the initial sales numbers and the sub numbers 3 months in after most people hit 50 and run up against that attunement wall. Would be interesting to see the drop off.
I don't know what path Wildstar is going to head down, but it's going to have to make some dramatic changes or face losing a LOT of people.
It possibly could have been a niche game if it was developed with a different publisher and for a lot less money (100+ million dollars to develop). Then I could see it sitting comfortably alongside EvE in the niche MMO game category.
I don't see NCSoft being OK with that. They'll drop the hammer at some point.
the devs specifically said they do NOT plan to dumb down raids.
hardcore.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. This a million times. They already admitted in one of their live streams that they will NOT have further attunements like this. I believe they used the words "horrific" in explaining the current attunement. In another live stream, when the lead raid designer was explaining the current attunement process, the community managers who host the live stream were left with their mouths open unable to speak. I'm sure they were thinking "ok...THIS explains why my job has been hell the past month". One of them even said "What the Frick! I didn't know it was THAT hardcore!" and he wasn't saying it in the sarcastic "oh bro...that IS hardcore hyuk hyuk". He really meant it. It was a very telling moment.
I see nothing wrong with guilds merge or alliances (ala Lineage 2 style). Unite to fight biggest baddest mofo out there. OP are you one of them guys who created a guild and feels themselves as a north korea's supreme leader?
Also I didn't know W* needs saving. It's quite fun actually the way it is now. In time people will learn which guilds to join. Every man for himself might not work in this game.
I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to always design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Just my 2cents.