If the combat is like Landmark it will be entirely reticle based that can include ability effect ranges like conal, circular, etc. This is important because some abilities change the world, like changing the ground to ice three dimensionally, that open up other opportunities like making that spot easier to break through or freezing players standing on the ice with another ability. Not to mention skill shot abilities like dash that can miss if your target moves
Oops, to complete my thought the reticle combat is important because it allows you to freely aim the abilities I was talking about like creating patches of ice.
while i dont like the wow art style i understand its reasons and the facial expressions are indeed very in depth and the style will probably age much better
I prefer action combat which can and should be tactical at the same time - but it should lets you focus on the action on screen and not your skill bar - neverwinter and elder scrolls online had the most fun combat for me... but they both fell flat in other departments - mostly imagination, immersion and the feeling of being a unique character in a living, breathing, from you independently evolving world/story which youre just a part of - if eqn can nail that, i think i can look past a lot of other things...
While as said, a lot of things i saw at soe live concerned me, i feel that the devs are very passionate about their product and world and that they have a plan and put their whole heart into it - and thats really all i can ask for.
Originally posted by justmemyselfandi Good thing it'll be F2P.
I'd sure as hell never spend money on it.
And that's the reason i don't understand why this game gets so much hate. You could play this game bitching and moaning all day long and it would cost you nothing except your time and possibly some pride.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by MightyUnclean Action crap. God, they really are targeting kids with this.
Yeah we all know having 50+ skills on your screen so you have make to macros for the 5 most used skill so you can press 1 button and stand still are waaaay more mature and complex.
The Everquest meets flashy Street fighter direction they're heading with combat makes me feel bored of the game already. I don't think I have seen that many lights zipping and flashing at me in an 80's disco.
So many clueless 'intellectuals' making wild assumptions when it is clear they are making those assumptions based on lack of information or simply the inability to understand the process of making an MMO and how MMO's work.
Having attended SOELive, watched all the presentations, talked to the Devs, spoken to those with knowledge of all the stuff not yet released.....I am going to enjoy release day.
A total misrepresentation. The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.
So lets show some similar in-game animations of both.
So is it the art style or the effects? Eastern mmos like FFXIV, Bless, Black Desert have nice Graphics, yet over the top effects. Do they look terrible as well?
Also assuming you seem to miss that what was shown wasn't from a player's POV (which is dumb on their part because it makes everything look worse than it may or may not be). When you are in player POV it won't be so flashy. Look at what they've shown in a more realistic POV and nothing looks overly flashy to me (Landmark Keynote, Combat from SOE Live 2013).
The bottom line is this kid is a complete joke. He says EQN looks equal/worst than WoW 10 years ago did? I seriously think he has some sort of degenerative eye disease or something. Only a person with full blown cataracts in both eyes would say something like that lol.
First he lists off a bunch of things that EQN will have, claiming it won't have it, then he says it looks like it's on the same level as WoW's graphics. We can only assume he's some troll.
Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style. EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar. They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.
Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby. Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game? All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting.
You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either. It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events. Yeah, they were oh so dynamic. The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change. They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.
Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.
A total misrepresentation. The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.
So lets show some similar in-game animations of both.
So is it the art style or the effects? Eastern mmos like FFXIV, Bless, Black Desert have nice Graphics, yet over the top effects. Do they look terrible as well?
Also assuming you seem to miss that what was shown wasn't from a player's POV (which is dumb on their part because it makes everything look worse than it may or may not be). When you are in player POV it won't be so flashy. Look at what they've shown in a more realistic POV and nothing looks overly flashy to me (Landmark Keynote, Combat from SOE Live 2013).
The bottom line is this kid is a complete joke. He says EQN looks equal/worst than WoW 10 years ago did? I seriously think he has some sort of degenerative eye disease or something. Only a person with full blown cataracts in both eyes would say something like that lol.
First he lists off a bunch of things that EQN will have, claiming it won't have it, then he says it looks like it's on the same level as WoW's graphics. We can only assume he's some troll.
Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style. EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar. They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.
Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby. Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game? All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting.
You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either. It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events. Yeah, they were oh so dynamic. The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change. They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.
Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.
Yes, Landmark is EQN meets minecraft meets Disney etc...And speak for all of us who still pay 15$ a month to play World of Warcraft. They dont like it because its not a good game, but because it has potential to change the industry. As for dynamic events or EQN rallying calls. Why should the conditions change? If they are telling a grand story with permanance shouldnt the developer not the computer decide. To say AI is weak because of it is stupid. It only happened in 1 other game, so to say youve seen what it all has to offer is just fooling yourself. As for the gameplay its a whole another animal. There is armor that regenerates, health that doesnt and energy that fluctuates depending on abilities.There are abilities like Dark Mantle in which a shadowknight heals its armor over time and does 10% more damage at a cost of 25% health. If it was more impressive you can say it was a MOBA with FPS elements with M:TG abilities tied into it. Sorry were hyped about this game in our own forums and we should be more critical about it over a demo. Isnt the point of this is to get more people to play this when it comes out? It suspicious to me about all the stuff people are saying.
A total misrepresentation. The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.
So lets show some similar in-game animations of both.
So is it the art style or the effects? Eastern mmos like FFXIV, Bless, Black Desert have nice Graphics, yet over the top effects. Do they look terrible as well?
Also assuming you seem to miss that what was shown wasn't from a player's POV (which is dumb on their part because it makes everything look worse than it may or may not be). When you are in player POV it won't be so flashy. Look at what they've shown in a more realistic POV and nothing looks overly flashy to me (Landmark Keynote, Combat from SOE Live 2013).
The bottom line is this kid is a complete joke. He says EQN looks equal/worst than WoW 10 years ago did? I seriously think he has some sort of degenerative eye disease or something. Only a person with full blown cataracts in both eyes would say something like that lol.
First he lists off a bunch of things that EQN will have, claiming it won't have it, then he says it looks like it's on the same level as WoW's graphics. We can only assume he's some troll.
Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style. EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar. They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.
Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby. Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game? All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting.
You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either. It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events. Yeah, they were oh so dynamic. The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change. They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.
Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.
I have no reason to troll. Let's look at what i posted.
"Yes, WoW is 10+ years old, but what is SOE's excuse? Their character models are horrible, and so are the animations and spell effects. Is it any wonder they try to hide those terrible things behind the "cartoony" art style? "
It's obvious i wasn't talking about vectors or shaders, or whatever other components make up the "graphics engine".
I listed: characters models, animations, and effects.
Nowhere did i say the graphics in WoW were better. Some of you need to comprehend what people write before you switch on your fanboy defense-mode
A total misrepresentation. The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.
So lets show some similar in-game animations of both.
So is it the art style or the effects? Eastern mmos like FFXIV, Bless, Black Desert have nice Graphics, yet over the top effects. Do they look terrible as well?
Also assuming you seem to miss that what was shown wasn't from a player's POV (which is dumb on their part because it makes everything look worse than it may or may not be). When you are in player POV it won't be so flashy. Look at what they've shown in a more realistic POV and nothing looks overly flashy to me (Landmark Keynote, Combat from SOE Live 2013).
The bottom line is this kid is a complete joke. He says EQN looks equal/worst than WoW 10 years ago did? I seriously think he has some sort of degenerative eye disease or something. Only a person with full blown cataracts in both eyes would say something like that lol.
First he lists off a bunch of things that EQN will have, claiming it won't have it, then he says it looks like it's on the same level as WoW's graphics. We can only assume he's some troll.
Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style. EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar. They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.
Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby. Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game? All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting.
You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either. It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events. Yeah, they were oh so dynamic. The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change. They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.
Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.
I have no reason to troll. Let's look at what i posted.
"Yes, WoW is 10+ years old, but what is SOE's excuse? Their character models are horrible, and so are the animations and spell effects. Is it any wonder they try to hide those terrible things behind the "cartoony" art style? "
It's obvious i wasn't talking about vectors or shaders, or whatever other components make up the "graphics engine".
I listed: characters models, animations, and effects.
Nowhere did i say the graphics in WoW were better. Some of you need to comprehend what people write before you switch on your fanboy defense-mode
The models in EQN:LM and EQN are really high poly count and are quite well done. If you don't like the art style that's fine but saying that the model quality is low is an outright lie.
Can't really comment on spell effects because at this point in development I doubt they have even thought about them. The game is pre-alpha and I think a lot of people are having trouble understanding this. Spell effects have always looked good in all EQ games, expecting them to look like crap in Next is just foolish.
The more the hype and justification climbs, the better the satisfaction on the threads post-launch when the actual game arrives and lives up to about half of it or less. The pure fanboi zeal is amazing. One poster even pulls out the card of calling everyone "kid" if they don't like the game as it has been shown so far. lol awesome.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by Archlyte The more the hype and justification climbs, the better the satisfaction on the threads post-launch when the actual game arrives and lives up to about half of it or less. The pure fanboi zeal is amazing. One poster even pulls out the card of calling everyone "kid" if they don't like the game as it has been shown so far. lol awesome.
I'd like to ask, why does it matter so much to you that the game is a failure? If they succeed that is nothing but good news for the rest of the MMO industry, you do realize this right?
Originally posted by Archlyte The more the hype and justification climbs, the better the satisfaction on the threads post-launch when the actual game arrives and lives up to about half of it or less. The pure fanboi zeal is amazing. One poster even pulls out the card of calling everyone "kid" if they don't like the game as it has been shown so far. lol awesome.
I'd like to ask, why does it matter so much to you that the game is a failure? If they succeed that is nothing but good news for the rest of the MMO industry, you do realize this right?
Actually I don't care how it does. WoW is the biggest MMO ever and I played it for 10 min before dismissing it forever. I just enjoy this weird thing I'm seeing where sides are drawn and battle done over the mere enthusiasm for a game that is no where near launch. History demonstrates that the game will probably launch with features either being trimmed or simply misunderstood by overzealous fans. The opposite is true too of course, with some things being said that demonize a game that has never been shown to even pit characters versus AI controlled mobs in the actual game world.
The MMO industry is fine, with or without EQNext
So it's the insults and barbs that I'm cheering. A more ridiculous argument could not be manufactured, so play on!
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by justmemyselfandi Good thing it'll be F2P.
I'd sure as hell never spend money on it.
And that's the reason i don't understand why this game gets so much hate. You could play this game bitching and moaning all day long and it would cost you nothing except your time and possibly some pride.
The reason this game gets so much hate is because it isn't a clone of EQ1, Doesn't have 16 rows of hotbar abilities, and doesn't have boring tab target combat. It's fairly evident that the vast majority of mmorpg.com forum users are a fickle bunch of rose tinted glasses wearing people.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Yes, Landmark is EQN meets minecraft meets Disney etc...And speak for all of us who still pay 15$ a month to play World of Warcraft. They dont like it because its not a good game, but because it has potential to change the industry. As for dynamic events or EQN rallying calls. Why should the conditions change? If they are telling a grand story with permanance shouldnt the developer not the computer decide. To say AI is weak because of it is stupid. It only happened in 1 other game, so to say youve seen what it all has to offer is just fooling yourself. As for the gameplay its a whole another animal. There is armor that regenerates, health that doesnt and energy that fluctuates depending on abilities.There are abilities like Dark Mantle in which a shadowknight heals its armor over time and does 10% more damage at a cost of 25% health. If it was more impressive you can say it was a MOBA with FPS elements with M:TG abilities tied into it. Sorry were hyped about this game in our own forums and we should be more critical about it over a demo. Isnt the point of this is to get more people to play this when it comes out? It suspicious to me about all the stuff people are saying.
Excuse me while I jump in with my 2 copper's worth.. I love dynamic events, some more so then others, but generally speaking I think game play that isn't static all the time is fun and exciting.. Mostly what GW2 with DE's were good.. I would love to see more of it with longer chains, and longer time spans.. What I mean there with time, is that too many of the DE's only last minutes, so by the time you get there, it's over.. Too often you waste time traveling from DE to DE with little time to actually enjoy the combat of the event.. Rift does a better job with their zone wide invasions..
Now was for the rally calls.. I had a question, but it was NEVER answered by SOE, or anyone with direct knowledge of the game.. It's been said that RC's change the game like building Halas.. but.. Is that really changing the game so that one server is different from another, or is it that the only difference is the stage of progression.. In other words, can one server make a "stone" Halas, while another chooses to build a "wooden" one? Not just material either, but effect completion concerning NPC's, such as, Halas A focuses and ruled by Warriors, while another focuses and ruled by shamans? Get the idea?
Originally posted by azzamasin
The reason this game gets so much hate is because it isn't a clone of EQ1, Doesn't have 16 rows of hotbar abilities, and doesn't have boring tab target combat. It's fairly evident that the vast majority of mmorpg.com forum users are a fickle bunch of rose tinted glasses wearing people.
Now to deal with the combat issue.. Many love and want "twitch" action combat.. while many (such as myself) enjoy auto targeting.. Here is an OLD working idea.. GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE what they want.. Many games can and do give players the option to twitch, or go auto target.. PROBLEM solved.. This is a feature that can be done with a click here or there, or just make your choice in the options window.. The game doesn't HAVE TO BE , one or the other.. If my buddy likes twitch action and I like tab targeting, we can still group up and do everything together without either one effecting the other..
OR IS IT, the real issue when it comes to PvP when auto targeting will have an advantage? Because in PvE, who cares, the mob DIES.. So is this game trying to appease PvP players, or PvE players? Further, if that is the real reason why they won't give you an option, just DISABLE the tab targeting on PvP Only servers.. Again, problem solved.. BTW.. I play World of Tanks and enjoy a limited time twitching.. After awhile it just grates on me.. Too much focusing on targeting, and NOT enough time in FUN stuff.. (my idea of fun)..
So many clueless 'intellectuals' making wild assumptions when it is clear they are making those assumptions based on lack of information or simply the inability to understand the process of making an MMO and how MMO's work.
Having attended SOELive, watched all the presentations, talked to the Devs, spoken to those with knowledge of all the stuff not yet released.....I am going to enjoy release day.
Forums make me sad too - but mostly for performance reasons.
The vast majority of gamers have no clue how MMOs are developed nor how they work. Hell most game devs don't know how they work from an operations standpoint. This has to do with complexity and so many moving parts that make an MMO and devs usually only know the part of the game they are responsible for.
Example a platform Dev usually has no clue about any of the game systems or mechanics, animators don't need to worry about server code nor message queue systems etc....
Then you put operations and data center teams in the mix - most game game devs have never even seen an inside of the data center - most won't be able to tell you a difference between a load balancer, router and a firewall. Most game devs wont be able tell you whatr UCS is or HP c7000, F5 iRules they've never even heard of, Vmotion is some sort of magic to them.
They don't need to know - just like a business intelligence person doesn't need to know C#
The number of people and specialized skills involved into running a MMO is VAST - very few people have a grasp on it period.
Bottom line - MMOs are products and gamers are the consumers - and consumers will decide if something looks like crap or is fun or sucks in a about 30seconds flat - that reality of consumerist society.
Having a good understanding of the product is completely irrelevant to a consumer today.
You missed my point but I will try and use a line from your reply.
Bottom Line - Most people who post here are too stupid to understand what they want or what is being made and are too impatient to either learn or wait for release. Wild assumptions are thrown about made on faulty information, guesswork or a bias from previous games (sometimes not even related games).
I value the opinion of most forum posters here as much as a stranger on the street, probably less because that stranger will not have any bias.
So these forums make me sad because so many people post comments about what the game WILL be when they can't even work out what the game currently IS.
Originally posted by justmemyselfandi Good thing it'll be F2P.
I'd sure as hell never spend money on it.
And that's the reason i don't understand why this game gets so much hate. You could play this game bitching and moaning all day long and it would cost you nothing except your time and possibly some pride.
The reason this game gets so much hate is because it isn't a clone of EQ1, Doesn't have 16 rows of hotbar abilities, and doesn't have boring tab target combat. It's fairly evident that the vast majority of mmorpg.com forum users are a fickle bunch of rose tinted glasses wearing people.
While I am one of those that want an eq1 clone, I doubt I am in the vast majority. But I don't hate EQN because it's not EQ1, I hate it because so far all they have shown pretty much suck. The concept of storybrick is pretty nice but so far, we only have words for that.
So what do we have now ?
Disney art style : some like it, some don't.
MOBA style combat : lot of class, few abilities each, fast paced action combat.
Animation and Soemote : They said they want a superhero feel and that's what it looks like so far. It will be polished also.
Voxel world : Adds flexibility and nice features, while it's looks really bad from far away or really close.
That's pretty much what we saw so far, and that's the reason I don't like the game. I didn't even bother commenting on the game after soelive because now I pretty much know that I won't play it, but I am tired of you pulling the rose tinted glasses argument on every one of your post.
Originally posted by Rydeson Now to deal with the combat issue.. Many love and want "twitch" action combat.. while many (such as myself) enjoy auto targeting.. Here is an OLD working idea.. GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE what they want..
There is no real choice. Players will gravitate to the system that poses the least resistance or has advantages in their favor.
An epic "boss" that can just be tag locked instead of having to aim is going to be the only choice in town.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Graphics and aesthetics are two different things. Most people here complain about the later.
"Action combat is a fad and only for kids"
To be honest I don't see it. I think action combat is here to stay and will only get better from here on. While singeplayer games had a lot more time to finetune and figure mechanics out. Adapting true action combat for an mmo is a bit more tricky, since you have a lot more playerinput to consider. And it has to feel good / be engaging for everyone involved. And that is a tricky thing.
While I don't think Everquest Next's attempt will be perfect it'll be interesting to see their take on the whole system up close.
The only thing that would make "Action Combat" a fad if no developer figures out how to bring forth a highly intuitive and engaging true combat mechanic over the next years. Because it will only go away if it won't work. But I highly doubt that.
While I understand that there are people who prefer tab targeting because that's what they grew up with (me too btw). I personally think that is something we'll see less and less, because tab targeting in mmos was necessity for simple technology reasons. 100% workable collision models were too expensive to compute in the past. Especially when you have open worlds were in theory hundreds of players could attack the same target.
Does this mean tab targeting will completely disappear? No of course not. Once more developer hat their go at action combat we will see it even out. And both camps will have their games to enjoy.
Personally side note: I'm in the camp of people who find true action combat more immersive. Knowing I can't dodge normal attacks/spells/projectiles only in the case a random number is rolled breaks the immersion for me. I like to stay on my feet and I like split second decisions.
Now is EQN targeting kids? probably yes (if their rating allows it). Don't forget that when EQ1 came out most of the people who are complaining now were kids/teens themselves. (Queue Lion King circle of life music :P)
Sure the aesthetics themselves make it more kid friendly but there are a lot of grown up who don't mind an art style like this. Just because something is gritty/dark and bloody and all the female characters are models in high heels with big breasts doesn't make it targeted at adults either. For the most part those are things teenage kids like because that would be something they're not allowed to play. Again I'm not saying those are the absolutes but they can the seen that way too.
Originally posted by Archlyte The more the hype and justification climbs, the better the satisfaction on the threads post-launch when the actual game arrives and lives up to about half of it or less. The pure fanboi zeal is amazing. One poster even pulls out the card of calling everyone "kid" if they don't like the game as it has been shown so far. lol awesome.
I'd like to ask, why does it matter so much to you that the game is a failure? If they succeed that is nothing but good news for the rest of the MMO industry, you do realize this right?
Actually I don't care how it does. WoW is the biggest MMO ever and I played it for 10 min before dismissing it forever. I just enjoy this weird thing I'm seeing where sides are drawn and battle done over the mere enthusiasm for a game that is no where near launch. History demonstrates that the game will probably launch with features either being trimmed or simply misunderstood by overzealous fans. The opposite is true too of course, with some things being said that demonize a game that has never been shown to even pit characters versus AI controlled mobs in the actual game world.
The MMO industry is fine, with or without EQNext
So it's the insults and barbs that I'm cheering. A more ridiculous argument could not be manufactured, so play on!
So this moral highground you created will get you far when experts come in and give this game its proper due in the coming year. And you will be forgotten as more people will join in to what Sony is calling a game that can "turn the mmo genre upside-down". Is it cool to "appear" to be advantageous now when you havent really thought it out? But its ok, you havent experienced the real world much "kid"
Originally posted by Rydeson Now to deal with the combat issue.. Many love and want "twitch" action combat.. while many (such as myself) enjoy auto targeting.. Here is an OLD working idea.. GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE what they want..
There is no real choice. Players will gravitate to the system that poses the least resistance or has advantages in their favor.
An epic "boss" that can just be tag locked instead of having to aim is going to be the only choice in town.
So what do you tell the people that are not good at twitch action combat? There is the door, good bye? I have played with many friends over the years, and it would sadden me to say good bye to friends because of NO CHOICE in combat.. There are some friends that aren't optimal button pushers even with "auto" targeting.. Personally I think the penalty for restricting combat to twitch action isn't a good trade off.. but oh well..
Comments
while i dont like the wow art style i understand its reasons and the facial expressions are indeed very in depth and the style will probably age much better
I prefer action combat which can and should be tactical at the same time - but it should lets you focus on the action on screen and not your skill bar - neverwinter and elder scrolls online had the most fun combat for me... but they both fell flat in other departments - mostly imagination, immersion and the feeling of being a unique character in a living, breathing, from you independently evolving world/story which youre just a part of - if eqn can nail that, i think i can look past a lot of other things...
While as said, a lot of things i saw at soe live concerned me, i feel that the devs are very passionate about their product and world and that they have a plan and put their whole heart into it - and thats really all i can ask for.
And that's the reason i don't understand why this game gets so much hate.
You could play this game bitching and moaning all day long and it would cost you nothing
except your time and possibly some pride.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Yeah we all know having 50+ skills on your screen so you have make to macros for the 5 most used skill so you can press 1 button and stand still are waaaay more mature and complex.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
EverQuest's theme goes with everything.
These forums make me so sad.
So many clueless 'intellectuals' making wild assumptions when it is clear they are making those assumptions based on lack of information or simply the inability to understand the process of making an MMO and how MMO's work.
Having attended SOELive, watched all the presentations, talked to the Devs, spoken to those with knowledge of all the stuff not yet released.....I am going to enjoy release day.
Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style. EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar. They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.
Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby. Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game? All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting.
You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either. It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events. Yeah, they were oh so dynamic. The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change. They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.
Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.
Yes, Landmark is EQN meets minecraft meets Disney etc...And speak for all of us who still pay 15$ a month to play World of Warcraft. They dont like it because its not a good game, but because it has potential to change the industry. As for dynamic events or EQN rallying calls. Why should the conditions change? If they are telling a grand story with permanance shouldnt the developer not the computer decide. To say AI is weak because of it is stupid. It only happened in 1 other game, so to say youve seen what it all has to offer is just fooling yourself. As for the gameplay its a whole another animal. There is armor that regenerates, health that doesnt and energy that fluctuates depending on abilities.There are abilities like Dark Mantle in which a shadowknight heals its armor over time and does 10% more damage at a cost of 25% health. If it was more impressive you can say it was a MOBA with FPS elements with M:TG abilities tied into it. Sorry were hyped about this game in our own forums and we should be more critical about it over a demo. Isnt the point of this is to get more people to play this when it comes out? It suspicious to me about all the stuff people are saying.
I have no reason to troll. Let's look at what i posted.
"Yes, WoW is 10+ years old, but what is SOE's excuse? Their character models are horrible, and so are the animations and spell effects. Is it any wonder they try to hide those terrible things behind the "cartoony" art style? "
It's obvious i wasn't talking about vectors or shaders, or whatever other components make up the "graphics engine".
I listed: characters models, animations, and effects.
Nowhere did i say the graphics in WoW were better. Some of you need to comprehend what people write before you switch on your fanboy defense-mode
The models in EQN:LM and EQN are really high poly count and are quite well done. If you don't like the art style that's fine but saying that the model quality is low is an outright lie.
Can't really comment on spell effects because at this point in development I doubt they have even thought about them. The game is pre-alpha and I think a lot of people are having trouble understanding this. Spell effects have always looked good in all EQ games, expecting them to look like crap in Next is just foolish.
I'd like to ask, why does it matter so much to you that the game is a failure? If they succeed that is nothing but good news for the rest of the MMO industry, you do realize this right?
Actually I don't care how it does. WoW is the biggest MMO ever and I played it for 10 min before dismissing it forever. I just enjoy this weird thing I'm seeing where sides are drawn and battle done over the mere enthusiasm for a game that is no where near launch. History demonstrates that the game will probably launch with features either being trimmed or simply misunderstood by overzealous fans. The opposite is true too of course, with some things being said that demonize a game that has never been shown to even pit characters versus AI controlled mobs in the actual game world.
The MMO industry is fine, with or without EQNext
So it's the insults and barbs that I'm cheering. A more ridiculous argument could not be manufactured, so play on!
The reason this game gets so much hate is because it isn't a clone of EQ1, Doesn't have 16 rows of hotbar abilities, and doesn't have boring tab target combat. It's fairly evident that the vast majority of mmorpg.com forum users are a fickle bunch of rose tinted glasses wearing people.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Excuse me while I jump in with my 2 copper's worth.. I love dynamic events, some more so then others, but generally speaking I think game play that isn't static all the time is fun and exciting.. Mostly what GW2 with DE's were good.. I would love to see more of it with longer chains, and longer time spans.. What I mean there with time, is that too many of the DE's only last minutes, so by the time you get there, it's over.. Too often you waste time traveling from DE to DE with little time to actually enjoy the combat of the event.. Rift does a better job with their zone wide invasions..
Now was for the rally calls.. I had a question, but it was NEVER answered by SOE, or anyone with direct knowledge of the game.. It's been said that RC's change the game like building Halas.. but.. Is that really changing the game so that one server is different from another, or is it that the only difference is the stage of progression.. In other words, can one server make a "stone" Halas, while another chooses to build a "wooden" one? Not just material either, but effect completion concerning NPC's, such as, Halas A focuses and ruled by Warriors, while another focuses and ruled by shamans? Get the idea?
Now to deal with the combat issue.. Many love and want "twitch" action combat.. while many (such as myself) enjoy auto targeting.. Here is an OLD working idea.. GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE what they want.. Many games can and do give players the option to twitch, or go auto target.. PROBLEM solved.. This is a feature that can be done with a click here or there, or just make your choice in the options window.. The game doesn't HAVE TO BE , one or the other.. If my buddy likes twitch action and I like tab targeting, we can still group up and do everything together without either one effecting the other..
OR IS IT, the real issue when it comes to PvP when auto targeting will have an advantage? Because in PvE, who cares, the mob DIES.. So is this game trying to appease PvP players, or PvE players? Further, if that is the real reason why they won't give you an option, just DISABLE the tab targeting on PvP Only servers.. Again, problem solved.. BTW.. I play World of Tanks and enjoy a limited time twitching.. After awhile it just grates on me.. Too much focusing on targeting, and NOT enough time in FUN stuff.. (my idea of fun)..
You missed my point but I will try and use a line from your reply.
Bottom Line - Most people who post here are too stupid to understand what they want or what is being made and are too impatient to either learn or wait for release. Wild assumptions are thrown about made on faulty information, guesswork or a bias from previous games (sometimes not even related games).
I value the opinion of most forum posters here as much as a stranger on the street, probably less because that stranger will not have any bias.
So these forums make me sad because so many people post comments about what the game WILL be when they can't even work out what the game currently IS.
While I am one of those that want an eq1 clone, I doubt I am in the vast majority. But I don't hate EQN because it's not EQ1, I hate it because so far all they have shown pretty much suck. The concept of storybrick is pretty nice but so far, we only have words for that.
So what do we have now ?
Disney art style : some like it, some don't.
MOBA style combat : lot of class, few abilities each, fast paced action combat.
Animation and Soemote : They said they want a superhero feel and that's what it looks like so far. It will be polished also.
Voxel world : Adds flexibility and nice features, while it's looks really bad from far away or really close.
That's pretty much what we saw so far, and that's the reason I don't like the game. I didn't even bother commenting on the game after soelive because now I pretty much know that I won't play it, but I am tired of you pulling the rose tinted glasses argument on every one of your post.
There is no real choice.
Players will gravitate to the system that poses the least resistance or has advantages in their favor.
An epic "boss" that can just be tag locked instead of having to aim is going to be the only choice in town.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Personal pet peeve.
Graphics and aesthetics are two different things. Most people here complain about the later.
"Action combat is a fad and only for kids"
To be honest I don't see it. I think action combat is here to stay and will only get better from here on. While singeplayer games had a lot more time to finetune and figure mechanics out. Adapting true action combat for an mmo is a bit more tricky, since you have a lot more playerinput to consider. And it has to feel good / be engaging for everyone involved. And that is a tricky thing.
While I don't think Everquest Next's attempt will be perfect it'll be interesting to see their take on the whole system up close.
The only thing that would make "Action Combat" a fad if no developer figures out how to bring forth a highly intuitive and engaging true combat mechanic over the next years. Because it will only go away if it won't work. But I highly doubt that.
While I understand that there are people who prefer tab targeting because that's what they grew up with (me too btw). I personally think that is something we'll see less and less, because tab targeting in mmos was necessity for simple technology reasons. 100% workable collision models were too expensive to compute in the past. Especially when you have open worlds were in theory hundreds of players could attack the same target.
Does this mean tab targeting will completely disappear? No of course not. Once more developer hat their go at action combat we will see it even out. And both camps will have their games to enjoy.
Personally side note: I'm in the camp of people who find true action combat more immersive. Knowing I can't dodge normal attacks/spells/projectiles only in the case a random number is rolled breaks the immersion for me. I like to stay on my feet and I like split second decisions.
Now is EQN targeting kids? probably yes (if their rating allows it). Don't forget that when EQ1 came out most of the people who are complaining now were kids/teens themselves. (Queue Lion King circle of life music :P)
Sure the aesthetics themselves make it more kid friendly but there are a lot of grown up who don't mind an art style like this. Just because something is gritty/dark and bloody and all the female characters are models in high heels with big breasts doesn't make it targeted at adults either. For the most part those are things teenage kids like because that would be something they're not allowed to play. Again I'm not saying those are the absolutes but they can the seen that way too.
So this moral highground you created will get you far when experts come in and give this game its proper due in the coming year. And you will be forgotten as more people will join in to what Sony is calling a game that can "turn the mmo genre upside-down". Is it cool to "appear" to be advantageous now when you havent really thought it out? But its ok, you havent experienced the real world much "kid"
So what do you tell the people that are not good at twitch action combat? There is the door, good bye? I have played with many friends over the years, and it would sadden me to say good bye to friends because of NO CHOICE in combat.. There are some friends that aren't optimal button pushers even with "auto" targeting.. Personally I think the penalty for restricting combat to twitch action isn't a good trade off.. but oh well..