was realy looking forward to this game before i started to see the vids.
if that low rez cartoon was a taste of things to come, bring back vg soe,it's old but better than that rubbish. (i hope it was a low rez vid, because if its supposed to be at high settings, things are even worse than i thought)
think will be happy enough to stick with esol, at least the graphics and game play are looking even better compared to eqn
Good morning everyone and WOW...hot topic I can see!
Battle mechs are the bread and butter for mmo's this is to be sure. Here's what I suggest to the five or six guys out there that are sort of battling this debate out, rather than just working from subjective points of view, list examples of what you're perfect fighting mech might be for say these typical encounters; one on one fight, one vs two/more fight, group encounter, and of course the epic boss encounter. In my experience these encounters are going to be a bit different in what skills you might use to down mobs.
I certainly believe this thread can certainly be better defined when we actually outline what we'd like to see created in EQ Next. Additionally, it would be better to actually hone in on the actual mechs rather than just saying well here what GW 2 is like, WoW, AA, so on and so forth. Now, I'd think that would truly enhance this discussion by actually discussing the aspects of what make interesting and fun battles in our mmo's.
Lock and load!
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
I liked the way the combat looked. But then again I loved City of Heroes which was fast paced combat with lots of colorful effects. I also loved original EQ for different reasons, but the combat wasn't one of them. I think I can learn to live with the cartoony graphics. I honestly hope they make a game that is as much fun for casual players as hardcore. I will never make it to the end game and raid, but for God's sake put a lot of effort into the end game for those folks. Seems like not having an end game is the death knell for an MMO.
Such a sad state of affairs when people can't see.....or more likely refuse to see the innovation that is in EQN. I won't name them cause you won't listen to them. But I will say one thing, if all you're interested in playing EQ3....with the same tired linear questing elements, the boring combat routines and the forced social interactions then why not play EQ1 or 2? I hear they're still up and running. SOE has already said they were not making the same game that every studio has produced for the last 14 years. Why would they limit their market share by developing a game that only the current players want to play?
You won't name them because you can't. Let me try to help you out....there is destructible environments which they constantly try to sell based on the minecraft block formula anad will have "underground zones". And they mentioned something about no end game but haven't discussed how that is going to work in detail.
That about cover it? That about all the "innovation" that is generally spoken of in this game?
I should know better than to come and talk about a game in a negative light that people seem to hold up on a pedestal blindly, refusing to ask questions or call them out on what they did vs what they could have done. At any point did I say I hope this game fails or people should not play it? To the contrary I said I hope it it successful and people do play, I simply stated it's not for me. IF me not playing this game concerns you so much...I thank you for your concern, but by all means enjoy playing it I will find something else to do.
So apparently a combination of the following things never seen before is not new and original. i.e. innovative.
An exploration centric world and progression system
dynamic content where choices matter
Heroic movement system
combat based on movement and placement
Multi-Class system where you need to find classes, quest for classes and develop factional contacts for classes
Dynamic artificial Intelligence of all NPC's.
This is just what we know of so little information given. But because either this game features action combat or isn't EQ3 you're pissed off. How could anyone ever take anything you say seriously. I think it's fairly obvious your dislike because of 1 or both of these issues has blinded you to what the game could be but that's fine. It is your opinion however I refuse to be blinded to innovation because of certain elements I may dislike. To each their own.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No one will be happier than we naysayers if SOE launches a game we want to play. So far the innovations don't outweigh the negatives.
DMKano's post is exactly correct. It's always the right time to criticize a game, especially one who won best of show.
Originally posted by Allein Originally posted by DOLPHYNNThat seems like terrible combat. Each fight takes from 2 - 7 seconds. There is no meaning in a fight for combat of such short length. This is EverQuest. Give us challenge and long fights so we can actually do things and react. The lights and sound effects need to be toned down as well. Each battle should not be a firework show. Save a bunch of that flash for really special abilities.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not, if so, good work.
He's not trolling but you might be. His post is 100% on point. Three second combat is absolutely not Everquest. In Everquest, even combat between a level 1 noob and a flimsy bat felt thrilling.
Originally posted by Aelious I respect that you have your own preconcieved notions of what an "RPG" looks like and gives you a greater sense of immersion (that's why most of us play MMORPGs) but you really didn't mention any universal reason other than your opinion...
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
Originally posted by goboygo Whuu? What just happened? Was that game combat footage or did my monitor just blow some pixels out. It was kind of like the old Batman TV series fight scenes. WHAM! POW! BOOM! Apparently any violent action you take in the world of EQ sets off some sort of atomic reaction.
LOL the "BAM!, POW!, KLUNK!" would fit perfectly IMO.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I agree with you that those that like a game may defend any criticism against it simply because it's their game of choice. It is important to be objective as much as possible but often opinions of MMOs are highly subjective, in this case opinions are often about art style, the usefulness of voxels and the decision to have reticle combat vs. tab target. A lot of the technical aspects that would be objective arguments can fall under the "it's pre-alpha" simply because it is likely to improve before launch.
Then you have those poking the hornets nest with arguments that are inconsequential at best, trolling at worst. Some of it is blatantly obvious and, yes, could be ignored but it often comes with misinformation that to those who like the title should clarify for others who may be watching. I still will never understand what motivates them to comment on titles they seem to have no interest in other than to constantly find fault, especially if the reasons are shallow or simply untrue.
Ya that pratt guy is a real class act. He makes a post basically stating that voxels won't add anything to the game play itself, then he gets butt hurt and cry's foul when I point out a few scenarios where the voxels would have a massive and direct impact on the game play experience.
This level of intellectual dishonesty is baffling. This isn't a matter of "opinions" Pratt. You made a factually incorrect remark and I corrected you. If you had said something like "I like the art style of Black Desert over EQN", I'd have no issue with it since that's your opinion. I might mention a pros/cons list from an objective point of view as to what they achieve/fail to achieve based on their design, but you're always free to prefer one thing over another.
But you weren't talking about an opinion. You were claiming voxels don't add anything to gameplay, when they in fact do, in many extreme ways. Whether you care about those additions is up to you, but they are there in force.
I played EQ2 for 5 years and the one thing that made them stand apart is that they weren't afraid to make their game "more" complex. By this I mean more race/class choices to further differentiate the experience of large and small group combat. They had tons of abilities, and working towards a master version actually something that wasn't handed to you. And if you decided to change factions, you lost all that master progression.
Deity Lines, Fighting DIETIES (so awesome), Class changing, Doing the Betrayal Quest and either changing factions OR just staying in limbo. Prismatic Weapon-line was actually something you had to work towards to complete, IT WAS A PAIN IN THE ASS. All that work was worth it in the end when you had awesome Items that other people didn't have unless they put in the work to get them. Epic class weapons, The pvp/pve tab for all abilities and armor sets ( differentiating the values and effects depending on whether or not you were in pvvp.)
The Problem for me is that EQ2 wasnt afraid to try to capture the original EQ experience all while adding to it...
EQN on the other hand has :
Less Races
Less Class Options ( The class tree looks interesting but nowhere near what the other titles had to offer. ON RELEASE)
Less combat abilities. ( we all know that is where this is going. )
they have stated that it wont be like EQ2 in the sense that it wont have things like Heritage quests, language learning, Appearance slots for gear, Achievement points, Collectibles.....
Basically EVERYTHING that made this game stand out for me vs all the other shit titles I had no interests in. When I started playing MMO's I was turned off by shitty Cartoony graphics... and now they gone and jumped on that train now too...
In closing, There is no Ratonga... Therefore this game is, and will be a pile of shit.
No one will be happier than we naysayers if SOE launches a game we want to play. So far the innovations don't outweigh the negatives.
I don't see any negatives pointed out. I just see a bunch of cry babies complaining about stylized graphics and action combat simply because they prefer something else while completely disregarding all the innovations the game does make. That's about as rational as a person who hates RTS games doing a review of Star Craft 2 and complaining that it's not a first person shooter.
He's not trolling but you might be. His post is 100% on point. Three second combat is absolutely not Everquest. In Everquest, even combat between a level 1 noob and a flimsy bat felt thrilling.
It was a demo showing off combat skills and animations. The mobs were just dummy mobs that weren't reflective of actual game play. The real game will have longer fights that are more active. This is obvious to most people, so it's strange when people like you and Dolphynn make statements like this. We assume you're joking. The game also showed a player killing 2 other players instantly with a single whirlwind attack. You honestly think that the game is going to have players running around 1 shotting people?
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
He's evaluating the game in a more objective approach. You are not.
LOL the "BAM!, POW!, KLUNK!" would fit perfectly IMO.
Again, this is so far removed from reality that we assume you're trolling.
i dont know why but that combat video didnt feel right. There is no weight in the attacks, no impact on hit. Magic doesnt look like its really affecting the enemy and the caster doesnt even look like its trying to conjure/cast a spell. Its just one swing and a beam goes out clipping through the enemy.
They have a long way to go in beta to polish this combat and make it look authentic.
Such a sad state of affairs when people can't see.....or more likely refuse to see the innovation that is in EQN. I won't name them cause you won't listen to them. But I will say one thing, if all you're interested in playing EQ3....with the same tired linear questing elements, the boring combat routines and the forced social interactions then why not play EQ1 or 2? I hear they're still up and running. SOE has already said they were not making the same game that every studio has produced for the last 14 years. Why would they limit their market share by developing a game that only the current players want to play?
You won't name them because you can't. Let me try to help you out....there is destructible environments which they constantly try to sell based on the minecraft block formula anad will have "underground zones". And they mentioned something about no end game but haven't discussed how that is going to work in detail.
That about cover it? That about all the "innovation" that is generally spoken of in this game?
I should know better than to come and talk about a game in a negative light that people seem to hold up on a pedestal blindly, refusing to ask questions or call them out on what they did vs what they could have done. At any point did I say I hope this game fails or people should not play it? To the contrary I said I hope it it successful and people do play, I simply stated it's not for me. IF me not playing this game concerns you so much...I thank you for your concern, but by all means enjoy playing it I will find something else to do.
So apparently a combination of the following things never seen before is not new and original. i.e. innovative.
An exploration centric world and progression system
dynamic content where choices matter
Heroic movement system
combat based on movement and placement
Multi-Class system where you need to find classes, quest for classes and develop factional contacts for classes
Dynamic artificial Intelligence of all NPC's.
This is just what we know of so little information given. But because either this game features action combat or isn't EQ3 you're pissed off. How could anyone ever take anything you say seriously. I think it's fairly obvious your dislike because of 1 or both of these issues has blinded you to what the game could be but that's fine. It is your opinion however I refuse to be blinded to innovation because of certain elements I may dislike. To each their own.
1st of all you're assuming an awful lot based on some writing and secondly I'm really not sure why you are taking this as a some sort of personal attack just based on this game you like that I see major flaws with. It's a game...it's not the end of the world, take it easy there bud.
Secondly what you listed here (all 6) are NOT new concepts, they just aren't, those aren't my opinions those are facts. If you want to believe they are...that's fine, go right ahead and sing the praises of this game to others who hold the same opinion, nobody is going to stop you and it certainly isn't going to ruin my day for you and others to believe it.
Also the EQ3 thing was said in context, please go back and reread the context it was said in. Nowhere did I say I wanted this to be EQ3 and I certainly wasn't angry about it not being EQ3 (not sure where in the world you got that from), now you are just making stuff up honestly and putting words into my writing where they simply were neither written or implied., so I have no idea where you came up with your last paragraph other than just being upset I disagree with you about this game.
I get your excited about this game, by all means enjoy it....nothing you will say or I will say to you will change each others minds on the subject.
You mean why you think* the game won't appeal to you. There's a difference between a "bad game" and a game "you don't like". You may not like Chess, but it's not a "bad game".
I played EQ2 for 5 years and the one thing that made them stand apart is that they weren't afraid to make their game "more" complex. By this I mean more race/class choices to further differentiate the experience of large and small group combat. They had tons of abilities, and working towards a master version actually something that wasn't handed to you. And if you decided to change factions, you lost all that master progression.
EQN will have a comparable amount of races to choose from, and it's launching with 40 customizable classes with 12 activate-able combat skills each, 4 of which from each have the ability to be swapped in and out of any class you earn. This is 480 activate-able skills (not including passives of each class and unlocks via achievements). That's comparable, or more than, what most games launch with.
Deity Lines, Fighting DIETIES (so awesome), Class changing, Doing the Betrayal Quest and either changing factions OR just staying in limbo. Prismatic Weapon-line was actually something you had to work towards to complete, IT WAS A PAIN IN THE ASS. All that work was worth it in the end when you had awesome Items that other people didn't have unless they put in the work to get them. Epic class weapons, The pvp/pve tab for all abilities and armor sets ( differentiating the values and effects depending on whether or not you were in pvvp.)
Most of the things you have listed here are things EQN will probably have in spades, except the "deity" thing as they mentioned in this lore that the gods are missing atm (I think).
The Problem for me is that EQ2 wasnt afraid to try to capture the original EQ experience all while adding to it...
EQN on the other hand has :
Less Races
How do you know this? As far as we can tell they have planned to have nearly the same amount as EQ / EQ2 did at a launch. It might be -1 or 2, or +1 or 2, but it will be comparable.
Less Class Options ( The class tree looks interesting but nowhere near what the other titles had to offer. ON RELEASE)
Ya 40 customizable classes using a multi-class system. EQ2 really has it beat there! /sarcasm.
Less combat abilities. ( we all know that is where this is going. )
Quality > quantity. EQ2 suffers from the same issue WoW and other MMORPG tab target games of the past decade. You got 20, 30, 40 skills, but most of them are either fluff, or a magnitude of skills that do the same thing. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, heal, big heal, medium heal, DD, DD, DD, DD. In the end you find the "optimal rotation" and you just spam those 5 - 10 skills over and over again.
EQN is aiming to consolidate the skills, making each one more impactfulwhen it's used, more impressive, and will add emphasis to reflexes and skill in combat (dodging, aiming, being careful to use the right skill at the right time). You're free to prefer the old tab target system, but it's not like EQN's combat is "bad" and there are 100's of games out there that follow the tab target WoW-style combat. EQN is trying to do something different, or at least modern.
they have stated that it wont be like EQ2 in the sense that it wont have things like Heritage quests, language learning, Appearance slots for gear, Achievement points, Collectibles.....
Source saying that it won't have appearance slots? Most people think it will but I haven't seen a dev say otherwise. Could also be the fact that it's a horizontal progression game and gear isn't about +stats. So they could either have appearance slots, or it could just be something you craft or you go out and collect to get a specific gear set with a specific look for your build.
Basically EVERYTHING that made this game stand out for me vs all the other shit titles I had no interests in. When I started playing MMO's I was turned off by shitty Cartoony graphics... and now they gone and jumped on that train now too...
Oh there we go, finally something that's actually true. Ya it has stylized graphics.
In closing, There is no Ratonga... Therefore this game is, and will be a pile of shit.
The roundtable showed that fans overwhelmingly want ratongas and they basically suggested in the response that they're probably going to be in the game at launch(due to their popularity), or unlocked through a rallying call event. I'm also pretty sure that Dave Georgeson said that Dwarfs and Ratongas were his favorite races. Please provide the video or a quote from a dev that said "No ratongas for sure".
Originally posted by Aelious I respect that you have your own preconcieved notions of what an "RPG" looks like and gives you a greater sense of immersion (that's why most of us play MMORPGs) but you really didn't mention any universal reason other than your opinion...
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
Indeed my good man. My thought is this: An "RPG" is such because you are playing another character in another setting. Your control over their actions is paramount as opposed to a book where you have no freedom of choice outside witnessing the unfolding of the story. Wouldn't a combat system that allows a greater control of your character be a greater RPG?
Some would say no and that's fine but it's a subjective opinion because that is a preference, not an objective fact based upon the parameters of what an "RPG" means.
Such a sad state of affairs when people can't see.....or more likely refuse to see the innovation that is in EQN. I won't name them cause you won't listen to them. But I will say one thing, if all you're interested in playing EQ3....with the same tired linear questing elements, the boring combat routines and the forced social interactions then why not play EQ1 or 2? I hear they're still up and running. SOE has already said they were not making the same game that every studio has produced for the last 14 years. Why would they limit their market share by developing a game that only the current players want to play?
You won't name them because you can't. Let me try to help you out....there is destructible environments which they constantly try to sell based on the minecraft block formula anad will have "underground zones". And they mentioned something about no end game but haven't discussed how that is going to work in detail.
That about cover it? That about all the "innovation" that is generally spoken of in this game?
I should know better than to come and talk about a game in a negative light that people seem to hold up on a pedestal blindly, refusing to ask questions or call them out on what they did vs what they could have done. At any point did I say I hope this game fails or people should not play it? To the contrary I said I hope it it successful and people do play, I simply stated it's not for me. IF me not playing this game concerns you so much...I thank you for your concern, but by all means enjoy playing it I will find something else to do.
So apparently a combination of the following things never seen before is not new and original. i.e. innovative.
An exploration centric world and progression system
dynamic content where choices matter
Heroic movement system
combat based on movement and placement
Multi-Class system where you need to find classes, quest for classes and develop factional contacts for classes
Dynamic artificial Intelligence of all NPC's.
This is just what we know of so little information given. But because either this game features action combat or isn't EQ3 you're pissed off. How could anyone ever take anything you say seriously. I think it's fairly obvious your dislike because of 1 or both of these issues has blinded you to what the game could be but that's fine. It is your opinion however I refuse to be blinded to innovation because of certain elements I may dislike. To each their own.
1st of all you're assuming an awful lot based on some writing and secondly I'm really not sure why you are taking this as a some sort of personal attack just based on this game you like that I see major flaws with. It's a game...it's not the end of the world, take it easy there bud.
Secondly what you listed here (all 6) are NOT new concepts, they just aren't, those aren't my opinions those are facts. If you want to believe they are...that's fine, go right ahead and sing the praises of this game to others who hold the same opinion, nobody is going to stop you and it certainly isn't going to ruin my day for you and others to believe it.
Also the EQ3 thing was said in context, please go back and reread the context it was said in. Nowhere did I say I wanted this to be EQ3 and I certainly wasn't angry about it not being EQ3 (not sure where in the world you got that from), now you are just making stuff up honestly and putting words into my writing where they simply were neither written or implied., so I have no idea where you came up with your last paragraph other than just being upset I disagree with you about this game.
I get your excited about this game, by all means enjoy it....nothing you will say or I will say to you will change each others minds on the subject.
-Horizontal progression based systems are non-existent in AAA MMORPGs. As far as I know there isn't any out there. It's all vertical stat climber games like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc, unless you go into really small indie attempts and even then it's very rare.
-GW2 is the only other one that has "dynamic content" and it's a shell of what EQN is offering with the Story Bricks systems.
-A few games have "heroic movement", but it's mostly super-hero games and it lacks the depth EQN has with it's sytem. Big name fantasy titles like EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, GW, GW2, FFXIV, etc etc don't have it.
-Action combat isn't unique to EQN. Correct on that one. Tera, Neverwinter, Raiderz and GW2 are proof enough of that.
-Multiclassing systems are not unique to EQN, but they are certainly very rare, with FFXIV being the only one really worthy of any sort of praise and in comparison EQN's is offing a much deeper system than that.
-No other game out there has anything close to the emergent AI system.
Originally posted by Aelious I respect that you have your own preconcieved notions of what an "RPG" looks like and gives you a greater sense of immersion (that's why most of us play MMORPGs) but you really didn't mention any universal reason other than your opinion...
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
Indeed my good man. My thought is this: An "RPG" is such because you are playing another character in another setting. Your control over their actions is paramount as opposed to a book where you have no freedom of choice outside witnessing the unfolding of the story. Wouldn't a combat system that allows a greater control of your character be a greater RPG?
Some would say no and that's fine but it's a subjective opinion because that is a preference, not an objective fact based upon the parameters of what an "RPG" means.
Ya Skyrim is one of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of all time, and you never see people complaining that it isn't an "RPG" because it has action combat lol.
Clearly you don't know what the fuck "IN MY OPINION " means.
As someone who played the franchise for a long time, I'm sad it has been "taken over" by people who enjoy CoD more then MMO's.
If you dont think they are saying a big "Fuck You" to all their previous player base then listen closely to this guy talk about who he is appealing to...
at approximately 1:00 and on he states "The Idea was, with the question, that we wanted to find out what people who DIDN'T play EQ2 thought about the ratonga. And whether or not they would be interested in playing."
They have ZERO interests retaining in old players of the game. They want to capture a newer, larger, console audience. If you cant read between the lines, just go watch every video and listen to the words they choose.
Its not a conspiracy, its obvious they are being careful with their words because they KNOW its a complete overhaul of the IP.
They have had this mentality in EVERY video when it comes to questions about maintaining SOME of the better content they introduced to the world.
And as for the Ratonga comment... I was being humorous about how they havent said whether or not they will be in or not.
(EVERYTHING I have stated about the game content in its current form has been stated by Smedley and others in the live chats, sorry if you don't scrutinize it enough.)
-No other game out there has anything close to the emergent AI system.
I will just say that other games in the genre have talked ALOT about how their AI is something unique and not bland and having a living story that changes the world (which is what this basically is), we have heard this song and dance before and have seen nothing to believe that EQnext can deliver anything that hasn't already been tried before with this.
Again, not saying they can't do it, but the idea and concept is not a new one, just one that we have been lied to on countless times by different games and disappointed with it not living up anywhere close to what was promised.
I think I could into this type of combat if I could actually see it. Almost every move in combat seems to consist to have a very heavy visual sparkeling effect which prevented me to see either the playing characters or it's visual combat effect on targets.
Of course it's far to early to judge it's combat at this early state, most likely this "might" be equal to the combat players in Landmark are going to see/test first?
Originally posted by Aelious I respect that you have your own preconcieved notions of what an "RPG" looks like and gives you a greater sense of immersion (that's why most of us play MMORPGs) but you really didn't mention any universal reason other than your opinion...
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
Indeed my good man. My thought is this: An "RPG" is such because you are playing another character in another setting. Your control over their actions is paramount as opposed to a book where you have no freedom of choice outside witnessing the unfolding of the story. Wouldn't a combat system that allows a greater control of your character be a greater RPG?
Some would say no and that's fine but it's a subjective opinion because that is a preference, not an objective fact based upon the parameters of what an "RPG" means.
Ya Skyrim is one of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of all time, and you never see people complaining that it isn't an "RPG" because it has action combat lol.
I do make a distinction between action combat and rpg combat myself.
-Horizontal progression based systems are non-existent in AAA MMORPGs. As far as I know there isn't any out there. It's all vertical stat climber games like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc, unless you go into really small indie attempts and even then it's very rare. SWG was pretty much a horizontal skill based system.. Being a master didn't separate you from the rest of the world.. EQNext is not purely horizontal either.. It does have some vertical progression.. Just not in the degree most are accustomed to..
-GW2 is the only other one that has "dynamic content" and it's a shell of what EQN is offering with the Story Bricks systems. We have NO WORKING example of what storybricks will do.. Lets wait and see.
-A few games have "heroic movement", but it's mostly super-hero games and it lacks the depth EQN has with it's sytem. Big name fantasy titles like EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, GW, GW2, FFXIV, etc etc don't have it. Who cares? SWTOR has some awesome heroic graphic moves too in combat.. This is nothing new..
-Action combat isn't unique to EQN. Correct on that one. Tera, Neverwinter, Raiderz and GW2 are proof enough of that.
-Multiclassing systems are not unique to EQN, but they are certainly very rare, with FFXIV being the only one really worthy of any sort of praise and in comparison EQN's is offing a much deeper system than that. Swapping out a few limited skills is NOT pure multiclassing..
-No other game out there has anything close to the emergent AI system. Lets wait and see how it actually works.. Emergent AI is nothing new, it's just more complex code of numbers.. Likes vs dislikes..
IMO there hasn't been a game yet that has lived up to all the hype ever given towards it.. Do you really think EQN is going to be the first?
Fascinating opinion. I'm glad you think "Person who dismantled my factually incorrect post" is the definition of a "troll". Good job kid.
Clearly you don't know what the fuck "IN MY OPINION " means.
I only attacked the parts of your post that were not "opinionated". You clearly stated you didn't like the stylized graphics. You're welcome to it and I said nothing against your "opinion". But you started blabbling off about how the game is going to have less races and less classes and no ratongas and blahblahblah. Those aren't opinions. You're making uneducated and/or factually incorrect statements.
As someone who played the franchise for a long time, I'm sad it has been "taken over" by people who enjoy CoD more then MMO's.
If you dont think they are saying a big "Fuck You" to all their previous player base then listen closely to this guy talk about who he is appealing to...
at approximately 1:00 and on he states "The Idea was, with the question, that we wanted to find out what people who DIDN'T play EQ2 thought about the ratonga. And whether or not they would be interested in playing."
They have ZERO interests retaining in old players of the game. They want to capture a newer, larger, console audience. If you cant read between the lines, just go watch every video and listen to the words they choose.
What a fascinating leap you took there. They take a poll to get the opinion on Ratongas, praise the race's popularity, and the extrapolate on the fact that they could have it in the game at launch or even make it a part of a rallying call to unlock the race as a part of a story driven event. But they're saying "FU" to the fans? Not only having them in the game, but giving them a whole rallying call event to tell a story and give background on the ratonga as well? That's an insult to you? Seriously just stop.
Its not a conspiracy, its obvious they are being careful with their words because they KNOW its a complete overhaul of the IP.
They have had this mentality in EVERY video when it comes to questions about maintaining SOME of the better content they introduced to the world.
And as for the Ratonga comment... I was being humorous about how they havent said whether or not they will be in or not.
Take that tinfoil hat off kid.
(EVERYTHING I have stated about the game content in its current form has been stated by Smedley and others in the live chats, sorry if you don't scrutinize it enough.)
-Horizontal progression based systems are non-existent in AAA MMORPGs. As far as I know there isn't any out there. It's all vertical stat climber games like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc, unless you go into really small indie attempts and even then it's very rare. SWG was pretty much a horizontal skill based system.. Being a master didn't separate you from the rest of the world.. EQNext is not purely horizontal either.. It does have some vertical progression.. Just not in the degree most are accustomed to..
SWG was just as vertical as they come. It took a very long time to unlock master rank for a profession and the power level of a someone with master profession skills was magnitudes stronger than a new player. EQN is almost entire horizontal, given the facts that 1. Your skills don't get "stronger" and your gear doesn't "+stat you", you just simply get access to more skills, and more customization with gear. and 2. Getting these skills is as they said a matter of days. That's pretty flat as far as vertical progression goes. But no, SWG was very vertical.
-GW2 is the only other one that has "dynamic content" and it's a shell of what EQN is offering with the Story Bricks systems. We have NO WORKING example of what storybricks will do.. Lets wait and see. They've already explained in detail what the emergent AI system in Story Bricks will do. We don't have to wait and see to know this is already very different from other AI systems in other MMORPGs.
-A few games have "heroic movement", but it's mostly super-hero games and it lacks the depth EQN has with it's sytem. Big name fantasy titles like EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, GW, GW2, FFXIV, etc etc don't have it. Who cares? SWTOR has some awesome heroic graphic moves too in combat.. This is nothing new..
That's not anywhere near the same thing. An attack that leaps you toward an enemy (SWTOR Guardian) is not the same thing that's being talked about here.
-Action combat isn't unique to EQN. Correct on that one. Tera, Neverwinter, Raiderz and GW2 are proof enough of that.
-Multiclassing systems are not unique to EQN, but they are certainly very rare, with FFXIV being the only one really worthy of any sort of praise and in comparison EQN's is offing a much deeper system than that. Swapping out a few limited skills is NOT pure multiclassing..
Adding subjective identifiers of what you think constitutes multiclassing is of no consequence. Multiclassing - a character can change between different classes. That's all that you need for "pure multiclassing". Anything else is subjective to the design they want to impose. Characters in EQN will be able to freely swap between classes they've learned. The fact that they can highly customize their build with cross-class skills, different weapons and gear and all that extra stuff is just icing on the cake. It's still multiclassing by any sense of the word. 1 character is not locked into 1 class for it's entire life.
-No other game out there has anything close to the emergent AI system. Lets wait and see how it actually works.. Emergent AI is nothing new, it's just more complex code of numbers.. Likes vs dislikes..
It's quite different than that in what it's going to do and how it affects the game world.
IMO there hasn't been a game yet that has lived up to all the hype ever given towards it.. Do you really think EQN is going to be the first?
Lots of games have lived up to, or exceeded the "hype". Many MMORPGs list out a set of features and mechanics, and most of the major ones do give us that as they stated, or better. GW2 is a prime example. They said things like "dynamic events", they did it. "Action combat" - they did it. "Structured PvP that didn't require gear farming" - they did it. "Scaling the game to the player so veterans can play with low level people" - They delivered.
Whether or not a game is fun for you is quite different than failing to deliver features as stated.
Less Class Options ( The class tree looks interesting but nowhere near what the other titles had to offer. ON RELEASE)
Less combat abilities. ( we all know that is where this is going. )
they have stated that it wont be like EQ2 in the sense that it wont have things like Heritage quests, language learning, Appearance slots for gear, Achievement points, Collectibles.....
Basically EVERYTHING that made this game stand out for me vs all the other shit titles I had no interests in. When I started playing MMO's I was turned off by shitty Cartoony graphics... and now they gone and jumped on that train now too...
In closing, There is no Ratonga... Therefore this game is, and will be a pile of shit.
EQNext is going to release with 8 races, but technically it's more like 12 because High and Wood elves are together and all humans races are also together. You can still make a Barbarian, they are just under humans in the character creator.
I don't see how you can call 40 classes less than what EQ2 has.
EQNext won't have traditional quests, but it doesn't mean they can't have something like Heritage quests created through the AI. Language learning might be in, they never said it wasn't. Appearance slots are going to be in Landmark I don't see why they wouldn't be in Next. Collectibles were said to be IN last year. Achievement points? You realize that the Combat and Classes Video this thread is about showed that Achievement grants passives, right?
Also, Achievements points made EQ2 stand out? It's in every MMOs from the last 10 years.
Comments
was realy looking forward to this game before i started to see the vids.
if that low rez cartoon was a taste of things to come, bring back vg soe,it's old but better than that rubbish. (i hope it was a low rez vid, because if its supposed to be at high settings, things are even worse than i thought)
think will be happy enough to stick with esol, at least the graphics and game play are looking even better compared to eqn
i look this wrecked because i've got GIST.
Whats your excuse?
http://deadmanrambling.com/
Good morning everyone and WOW...hot topic I can see!
Battle mechs are the bread and butter for mmo's this is to be sure. Here's what I suggest to the five or six guys out there that are sort of battling this debate out, rather than just working from subjective points of view, list examples of what you're perfect fighting mech might be for say these typical encounters; one on one fight, one vs two/more fight, group encounter, and of course the epic boss encounter. In my experience these encounters are going to be a bit different in what skills you might use to down mobs.
I certainly believe this thread can certainly be better defined when we actually outline what we'd like to see created in EQ Next. Additionally, it would be better to actually hone in on the actual mechs rather than just saying well here what GW 2 is like, WoW, AA, so on and so forth. Now, I'd think that would truly enhance this discussion by actually discussing the aspects of what make interesting and fun battles in our mmo's.
Lock and load!
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
So apparently a combination of the following things never seen before is not new and original. i.e. innovative.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No one will be happier than we naysayers if SOE launches a game we want to play. So far the innovations don't outweigh the negatives.
DMKano's post is exactly correct. It's always the right time to criticize a game, especially one who won best of show.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not, if so, good work.He's not trolling but you might be. His post is 100% on point. Three second combat is absolutely not Everquest. In Everquest, even combat between a level 1 noob and a flimsy bat felt thrilling.
Which also happens to be my opinion. Are you offering something besides your opinion?
LOL the "BAM!, POW!, KLUNK!" would fit perfectly IMO.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Ya that pratt guy is a real class act. He makes a post basically stating that voxels won't add anything to the game play itself, then he gets butt hurt and cry's foul when I point out a few scenarios where the voxels would have a massive and direct impact on the game play experience.
This level of intellectual dishonesty is baffling. This isn't a matter of "opinions" Pratt. You made a factually incorrect remark and I corrected you. If you had said something like "I like the art style of Black Desert over EQN", I'd have no issue with it since that's your opinion. I might mention a pros/cons list from an objective point of view as to what they achieve/fail to achieve based on their design, but you're always free to prefer one thing over another.
But you weren't talking about an opinion. You were claiming voxels don't add anything to gameplay, when they in fact do, in many extreme ways. Whether you care about those additions is up to you, but they are there in force.
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Heres why the gme sucks "In My Opinion".
I played EQ2 for 5 years and the one thing that made them stand apart is that they weren't afraid to make their game "more" complex. By this I mean more race/class choices to further differentiate the experience of large and small group combat. They had tons of abilities, and working towards a master version actually something that wasn't handed to you. And if you decided to change factions, you lost all that master progression.
Deity Lines, Fighting DIETIES (so awesome), Class changing, Doing the Betrayal Quest and either changing factions OR just staying in limbo. Prismatic Weapon-line was actually something you had to work towards to complete, IT WAS A PAIN IN THE ASS. All that work was worth it in the end when you had awesome Items that other people didn't have unless they put in the work to get them. Epic class weapons, The pvp/pve tab for all abilities and armor sets ( differentiating the values and effects depending on whether or not you were in pvvp.)
The Problem for me is that EQ2 wasnt afraid to try to capture the original EQ experience all while adding to it...
EQN on the other hand has :
Less Races
Less Class Options ( The class tree looks interesting but nowhere near what the other titles had to offer. ON RELEASE)
Less combat abilities. ( we all know that is where this is going. )
they have stated that it wont be like EQ2 in the sense that it wont have things like Heritage quests, language learning, Appearance slots for gear, Achievement points, Collectibles.....
Basically EVERYTHING that made this game stand out for me vs all the other shit titles I had no interests in. When I started playing MMO's I was turned off by shitty Cartoony graphics... and now they gone and jumped on that train now too...
In closing, There is no Ratonga... Therefore this game is, and will be a pile of shit.
and for those who want some nostalgia ...
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
i dont know why but that combat video didnt feel right. There is no weight in the attacks, no impact on hit. Magic doesnt look like its really affecting the enemy and the caster doesnt even look like its trying to conjure/cast a spell. Its just one swing and a beam goes out clipping through the enemy.
They have a long way to go in beta to polish this combat and make it look authentic.
Why does Altar Of malice for EQ2 look better then EQN.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckuvBy31Jh4#t=136
1st of all you're assuming an awful lot based on some writing and secondly I'm really not sure why you are taking this as a some sort of personal attack just based on this game you like that I see major flaws with. It's a game...it's not the end of the world, take it easy there bud.
Secondly what you listed here (all 6) are NOT new concepts, they just aren't, those aren't my opinions those are facts. If you want to believe they are...that's fine, go right ahead and sing the praises of this game to others who hold the same opinion, nobody is going to stop you and it certainly isn't going to ruin my day for you and others to believe it.
Also the EQ3 thing was said in context, please go back and reread the context it was said in. Nowhere did I say I wanted this to be EQ3 and I certainly wasn't angry about it not being EQ3 (not sure where in the world you got that from), now you are just making stuff up honestly and putting words into my writing where they simply were neither written or implied., so I have no idea where you came up with your last paragraph other than just being upset I disagree with you about this game.
I get your excited about this game, by all means enjoy it....nothing you will say or I will say to you will change each others minds on the subject.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Indeed my good man. My thought is this: An "RPG" is such because you are playing another character in another setting. Your control over their actions is paramount as opposed to a book where you have no freedom of choice outside witnessing the unfolding of the story. Wouldn't a combat system that allows a greater control of your character be a greater RPG?
Some would say no and that's fine but it's a subjective opinion because that is a preference, not an objective fact based upon the parameters of what an "RPG" means.
-Horizontal progression based systems are non-existent in AAA MMORPGs. As far as I know there isn't any out there. It's all vertical stat climber games like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc, unless you go into really small indie attempts and even then it's very rare.
-GW2 is the only other one that has "dynamic content" and it's a shell of what EQN is offering with the Story Bricks systems.
-A few games have "heroic movement", but it's mostly super-hero games and it lacks the depth EQN has with it's sytem. Big name fantasy titles like EQ, EQ2, WoW, Rift, GW, GW2, FFXIV, etc etc don't have it.
-Action combat isn't unique to EQN. Correct on that one. Tera, Neverwinter, Raiderz and GW2 are proof enough of that.
-Multiclassing systems are not unique to EQN, but they are certainly very rare, with FFXIV being the only one really worthy of any sort of praise and in comparison EQN's is offing a much deeper system than that.
-No other game out there has anything close to the emergent AI system.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Ya Skyrim is one of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of all time, and you never see people complaining that it isn't an "RPG" because it has action combat lol.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Gallus85... you are a troll.
Clearly you don't know what the fuck "IN MY OPINION " means.
As someone who played the franchise for a long time, I'm sad it has been "taken over" by people who enjoy CoD more then MMO's.
If you dont think they are saying a big "Fuck You" to all their previous player base then listen closely to this guy talk about who he is appealing to...
Watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD_v_f9LZp8
at approximately 1:00 and on he states "The Idea was, with the question, that we wanted to find out what people who DIDN'T play EQ2 thought about the ratonga. And whether or not they would be interested in playing."
They have ZERO interests retaining in old players of the game. They want to capture a newer, larger, console audience. If you cant read between the lines, just go watch every video and listen to the words they choose.
Its not a conspiracy, its obvious they are being careful with their words because they KNOW its a complete overhaul of the IP.
They have had this mentality in EVERY video when it comes to questions about maintaining SOME of the better content they introduced to the world.
And as for the Ratonga comment... I was being humorous about how they havent said whether or not they will be in or not.
(EVERYTHING I have stated about the game content in its current form has been stated by Smedley and others in the live chats, sorry if you don't scrutinize it enough.)
I will just say that other games in the genre have talked ALOT about how their AI is something unique and not bland and having a living story that changes the world (which is what this basically is), we have heard this song and dance before and have seen nothing to believe that EQnext can deliver anything that hasn't already been tried before with this.
Again, not saying they can't do it, but the idea and concept is not a new one, just one that we have been lied to on countless times by different games and disappointed with it not living up anywhere close to what was promised.
I think I could into this type of combat if I could actually see it. Almost every move in combat seems to consist to have a very heavy visual sparkeling effect which prevented me to see either the playing characters or it's visual combat effect on targets.
Of course it's far to early to judge it's combat at this early state, most likely this "might" be equal to the combat players in Landmark are going to see/test first?
But that style of graphic can only get uglier as it age they said !
I do make a distinction between action combat and rpg combat myself.
IMO there hasn't been a game yet that has lived up to all the hype ever given towards it.. Do you really think EQN is going to be the first?
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
EQNext is going to release with 8 races, but technically it's more like 12 because High and Wood elves are together and all humans races are also together. You can still make a Barbarian, they are just under humans in the character creator.
I don't see how you can call 40 classes less than what EQ2 has.
EQNext won't have traditional quests, but it doesn't mean they can't have something like Heritage quests created through the AI. Language learning might be in, they never said it wasn't. Appearance slots are going to be in Landmark I don't see why they wouldn't be in Next. Collectibles were said to be IN last year. Achievement points? You realize that the Combat and Classes Video this thread is about showed that Achievement grants passives, right?
Also, Achievements points made EQ2 stand out? It's in every MMOs from the last 10 years.