Originally posted by cheyane Looking at combat in Landmark means Everquest Next is not for me . These types of action games is out. Well one less game for me to follow.
Here's my opinion:
The target audience - vast console market.
It makes sense from a business perspective - SoE's current players are mostly all PC - with EQN they can tap into the console players and gain a whole new playerbase
This is why they have little interest at EQ1/EQ2 players at all - as EQN is a fundamentally different game
EQN is designed for controller play - it's an action game at heart - it will be pretty fun on a PS4 I'm sure, that's probably how I'll play it.
my 2c
This is not going to captivate console gamers. The animation and graphics fidelity just aren't anywhere close to being competitive, most computer RPG'ers are completely comfortable to trade in visual engagement for depth, complexity and immersion. I just hope one day it can be bridged to have both as some people like myself like to swim in both ponds.
what you'll discover as game launches is that players won't create awesome dungeons, they'll create cages with monsters locked inside that they can grind infinitely for zero risk maximum reward. There will also be penises and swastikas and the most creative thing you might encounter in the far depths of a dungeon will be a penis-swastika.
I heard Landmark is filled with penis-swastika's, they cant remove them fast enough! What will we do with people having even more freedom in EQN...er wait.
I assume you don't know what you're talking about? I gotta pick a random game I don't like and talk nonsense in it's forum.
what you'll discover as game launches is that players won't create awesome dungeons, they'll create cages with monsters locked inside that they can grind infinitely for zero risk maximum reward. There will also be penises and swastikas and the most creative thing you might encounter in the far depths of a dungeon will be a penis-swastika.
I heard Landmark is filled with penis-swastika's, they cant remove them fast enough! What will we do with people having even more freedom in EQN...er wait.
I assume you don't know what you're talking about? I gotta pick a random game I don't like and talk nonsense in it's forum.
It was my impression there is no freedom to build anything in EQN.. Landmark and EQN are two separate games..
It was my impression there is no freedom to build anything in EQN.. Landmark and EQN are two separate games..
You like some others might want to look into the game a bit more. Details are scattered about, but if you are going to be critical or a fanboi for that matter, should at least know what has been presented so far. Instead of all those jumping in going "OMG Fail" after seeing one screenshot or video clip. You seem to have a decent understanding of the game, but some of your views seem to be missing all the details.
Originally posted by kikosforever You are kidding right? This is really the combat of landmark and EQ Next? I m so hyped about EQ Next but this looks absolutely retarded...
Judging by some of the white knighting in this thread, the target audience is just that. At some point the truth will sink in that SOE is working on vapidware, a game for the least common denominator in attention span based on a marketing scheme that became a design. So disappointed in what they thought was awesome new combat.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by kikosforever You are kidding right? This is really the combat of landmark and EQ Next? I m so hyped about EQ Next but this looks absolutely retarded...
Judging by some of the white knighting in this thread, the target audience is just that. At some point the truth will sink in that SOE is working on vapidware, a game for the least common denominator in attention span based on a marketing scheme that became a design. So disappointed in what they thought was awesome new combat.
I didn't think it was possible for a software program to kick a dog but there you have it. What marketing scheme are you referring too? Did you mean "lowest common.." regarding the combat or the entire game as you stated? Are you comparing action combat to tab target in this assessment? If so which action combat, this first basic iteration or the system laid out with a set of abilities? If the latter what would make that system "less than" whatever system you are comparing it to?
For such an omniscient tone you left more questions than answers.
Having spent the last 3 days visiting various combat claims and getting used to the system I am happy with what is there. It isn't perfect and is missing a LOT of features but the basics are there and combat is FUN!
There are issues with energy management and heroic movement which has been brought up and the devs had thankfully already noted it and are adjusting.
You have to aim with a bow...Awesome!
Timing with mage is very important when trying to land the control effect...awesome!
Didn't play too much with sword but having extra armour and health and feeling 'tough'...awesome!
For a first pass it just makes me eager for more.
Add to that the fact that we only have 6 skills, no classes, basic weapons and no armour....each new iteration is going to be fun.
First impressions (after some serious play time) it is rough, missing lots of things, needs a lot of balancing but ultimately is a lot of fun to participate in.
Yeah, they (some trolls) never show another mmo that they would rather prefer or is superior. I think they are referring to a first person shooter on a ps4 console or something when they compare what they had in mind to EQ Next or Landmark (which is totally unfair).
...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.
I mean, I was there when Landmark opened it's doors in Alpha. I've seen how far it has come along since then. I am confident that the combat (and it's animations) will only get better from here on out.
that's what they turned in, that's what they're graded on.
That means your grade changes at every patch? Sounds exhausting to me.
So true.. For people that want to use the ole dead horse example of pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 or using a macro, I agree that blind mindless combat like that isn't fun.. Even I would get bored of that because it's thoughtless and doesn't require any grey matter to win.. However, that being said.. There are many role performing fights that require quick reactions, and thinking.. especially on the fly.. A perfect example of such a fight was "Moroes" boss in Kara.. That battle was epicly fun.. You had to keep up on heals on many targets, do some CC work, DPS without getting agro, or breaking CC.. Taunt some mobs, while others were IMMUNIE to taunt..
Now I'm not saying that is the only way to do fights, but it does show that role combat WORKS, if done right, and is fun.. There was NO way of pressing a macro or 1,2,3,4 mindlessly and think you win.. I just wish we saw more of that flavor in open world combat outside of raid instances.. EQ1 used to when you wanted to break a "camp" location.. I miss having roaming adds, when things could go wrong, that required immediate, on the fly thinking and reaction.. "EVAC".. lol
In conclusion, it is funny that so many anti 1,2,3,4 button mashing fans are actually endorsing the bouncing / click combat.. What is that old saying?
It comes down to a preferred style of play. The only tradeoff I see from a mechanical standpoint is less active abilities for more active targeting. This seems like a fair trade since you're having to aim at a moving target in real time with action based.
This is related to your encounter example, which is different than comparing combat systems but can still be used to contrast them. Imagine that same fight and having to do those same maneuvers but aiming them instead of auto-targeting. To me this would be a,more engaging fight buy that's just my opinion.
There will be roles in EQN, this has been stated by Dave and shown by the Cleric class. Dave also mentioned that control was coming back in a major way. The Warrior showed abilities that could keep enemies away from other players, like a tank is able to do.
I think one big improvement to do for combat IMO would be to make jumping take energy while in combat.. More strafing and less jumping would make the combat look much less awful I think. The again when it comes to MMORPGs I have yet to see one with action combat not look awful when groups collide.
Originally posted by cheyane Looking at combat in Landmark means Everquest Next is not for me . These types of action games is out. Well one less game for me to follow.
Here's my opinion:
The target audience - vast console market.
It makes sense from a business perspective - SoE's current players are mostly all PC - with EQN they can tap into the console players and gain a whole new playerbase
This is why they have little interest at EQ1/EQ2 players at all - as EQN is a fundamentally different game
EQN is designed for controller play - it's an action game at heart - it will be pretty fun on a PS4 I'm sure, that's probably how I'll play it.
my 2c
No it is not. EQN will not see a a console before 2017 maybe 2018. EQN is a PC game they're not trying to attract the console gamers.
I mean, I was there when Landmark opened it's doors in Alpha. I've seen how far it has come along since then. I am confident that the combat (and it's animations) will only get better from here on out.
that's what they turned in, that's what they're graded on.
That means your grade changes at every patch? Sounds exhausting to me.
It's more of a draft copy, the one you give in to the teacher to check and help you improve before the final draft.
While that could also change, this whole thing seems like serious hack&slash material to me. I really wonder sometimes why "action combat" is currently likenened to that. Games like Diablo / Path of Exile / etc. have their place, but they're hardly the type of game that was associated with large and complex MMO's in the past.
that's the key right there.
all your ideas of what MMOs should be are all rooted in cliches of the past.
we're finally coming out of the dark ages and getting rid of the 1970's dice rolling "gameplay" for the most part.
(don't argue with me that it won't die, i realize that.... it will always be there, but it won't be the default anymore...it will go back to its niche and stay there in games like ArcheAge)
and like somebody mentioned, this has a lot in common with Darkfall now. they were way ahead of their time.
Why should one play style be overlooked for another. There are large enough audiences for both twitch or avatar based combat systems. The reason why there is so much reaction lately is that everyone so far has jumped on the console / action combat bandwagon. I guess you won't be bothered when MMOs leave PC gaming behind either.
remember to actually READ a message FULLY, and then contemplate the meaning of it BEFORE you respond to it.
So the first and one of the best group based, RPG and strategy oriented MMO's legacy now turns into an arcade third person targeting 'shooter' with the worst animations and horrible jumping I've ever seen...
Yeah, the devs totally know what people want.
Other people with this similar view haven't been able to answer this yet, maybe you can:
How does having a reticle targeting system exclude EQN from being an RPG?
I guess by the same respect, what about this system excludes it from requiring strategy or having group based content? From the itemization shown in Landmark already, since the design is still "young", there can be strategy involved in combat, more so than strict numbers game systems like in EQ and others (str, sta, int, etc.).
I personally think they've done a great job so far with animations and are very intricate. This is more of a joke but still to this day in EQ when strafing left and right you "moonwalk" so I wouldn't talk about animations hehe.
Comments
Based on what has happened so far during Alpha and Beta they will listen within the constraints of their overall design.
Can I ask, are you part of the Landmark Alpha/Beta process at all or just basing your comments on a video? Proof is in the pudding and all that...
This is not going to captivate console gamers. The animation and graphics fidelity just aren't anywhere close to being competitive, most computer RPG'ers are completely comfortable to trade in visual engagement for depth, complexity and immersion. I just hope one day it can be bridged to have both as some people like myself like to swim in both ponds.
I heard Landmark is filled with penis-swastika's, they cant remove them fast enough! What will we do with people having even more freedom in EQN...er wait.
I assume you don't know what you're talking about? I gotta pick a random game I don't like and talk nonsense in it's forum.
It was my impression there is no freedom to build anything in EQN.. Landmark and EQN are two separate games..
Which is why I do not like twitch combat in an MMORPG. I cannot stand the constant hopping.
You like some others might want to look into the game a bit more. Details are scattered about, but if you are going to be critical or a fanboi for that matter, should at least know what has been presented so far. Instead of all those jumping in going "OMG Fail" after seeing one screenshot or video clip. You seem to have a decent understanding of the game, but some of your views seem to be missing all the details.
Judging by some of the white knighting in this thread, the target audience is just that. At some point the truth will sink in that SOE is working on vapidware, a game for the least common denominator in attention span based on a marketing scheme that became a design. So disappointed in what they thought was awesome new combat.
I didn't think it was possible for a software program to kick a dog but there you have it. What marketing scheme are you referring too? Did you mean "lowest common.." regarding the combat or the entire game as you stated? Are you comparing action combat to tab target in this assessment? If so which action combat, this first basic iteration or the system laid out with a set of abilities? If the latter what would make that system "less than" whatever system you are comparing it to?
For such an omniscient tone you left more questions than answers.
Having spent the last 3 days visiting various combat claims and getting used to the system I am happy with what is there. It isn't perfect and is missing a LOT of features but the basics are there and combat is FUN!
There are issues with energy management and heroic movement which has been brought up and the devs had thankfully already noted it and are adjusting.
You have to aim with a bow...Awesome!
Timing with mage is very important when trying to land the control effect...awesome!
Didn't play too much with sword but having extra armour and health and feeling 'tough'...awesome!
For a first pass it just makes me eager for more.
Add to that the fact that we only have 6 skills, no classes, basic weapons and no armour....each new iteration is going to be fun.
First impressions (after some serious play time) it is rough, missing lots of things, needs a lot of balancing but ultimately is a lot of fun to participate in.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
...That's essentially what being smug is. Acting like you're so blatantly right that even the thought of someone disagreeing with you is appallingly stupid and comical. you have a good chance of bullying them into believing you.
That means your grade changes at every patch? Sounds exhausting to me.
So true.. For people that want to use the ole dead horse example of pressing 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 or using a macro, I agree that blind mindless combat like that isn't fun.. Even I would get bored of that because it's thoughtless and doesn't require any grey matter to win.. However, that being said.. There are many role performing fights that require quick reactions, and thinking.. especially on the fly.. A perfect example of such a fight was "Moroes" boss in Kara.. That battle was epicly fun.. You had to keep up on heals on many targets, do some CC work, DPS without getting agro, or breaking CC.. Taunt some mobs, while others were IMMUNIE to taunt..
Now I'm not saying that is the only way to do fights, but it does show that role combat WORKS, if done right, and is fun.. There was NO way of pressing a macro or 1,2,3,4 mindlessly and think you win.. I just wish we saw more of that flavor in open world combat outside of raid instances.. EQ1 used to when you wanted to break a "camp" location.. I miss having roaming adds, when things could go wrong, that required immediate, on the fly thinking and reaction.. "EVAC".. lol
In conclusion, it is funny that so many anti 1,2,3,4 button mashing fans are actually endorsing the bouncing / click combat.. What is that old saying?
POT meet KETTLE
It comes down to a preferred style of play. The only tradeoff I see from a mechanical standpoint is less active abilities for more active targeting. This seems like a fair trade since you're having to aim at a moving target in real time with action based.
This is related to your encounter example, which is different than comparing combat systems but can still be used to contrast them. Imagine that same fight and having to do those same maneuvers but aiming them instead of auto-targeting. To me this would be a,more engaging fight buy that's just my opinion.
There will be roles in EQN, this has been stated by Dave and shown by the Cleric class. Dave also mentioned that control was coming back in a major way. The Warrior showed abilities that could keep enemies away from other players, like a tank is able to do.
No it is not. EQN will not see a a console before 2017 maybe 2018. EQN is a PC game they're not trying to attract the console gamers.
It's more of a draft copy, the one you give in to the teacher to check and help you improve before the final draft.
I played this back in 1997.
It was called Quake
OMG>>>>>>>this is a sad sad day for gaming.
Edit....I would play this as a non-subscriber on Wii U .......lol
Only thing missing is the BFG for me....lol
i posted how absurdly reductionistic your comment was. did i need to write a huge, complicated post to show how simple YOURS was?
NO. stop continuing with the absurdity.
and did you seriously miss the part where i was making a PARODY statement to show you how ridiculous YOUR statement sounded?
yeah, you sounded just like that. you said basically that very same thing.
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Corpus Callosum
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remember to actually READ a message FULLY, and then contemplate the meaning of it BEFORE you respond to it.
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Corpus Callosum
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Other people with this similar view haven't been able to answer this yet, maybe you can:
How does having a reticle targeting system exclude EQN from being an RPG?
I guess by the same respect, what about this system excludes it from requiring strategy or having group based content? From the itemization shown in Landmark already, since the design is still "young", there can be strategy involved in combat, more so than strict numbers game systems like in EQ and others (str, sta, int, etc.).
I personally think they've done a great job so far with animations and are very intricate. This is more of a joke but still to this day in EQ when strafing left and right you "moonwalk" so I wouldn't talk about animations hehe.