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Why are tanks hard to get ?
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
My reasons from my experience after playing many mmos :
1) Tanks are often the most boring class, without any abilities that stand out.
2) Tanks because of defensive are weaker classes.
3) People are scared to play them In a trinity system :
a) Your often expected to know your taunts perfectly without fault.
b) You get blamed often with others mistakes. ( you better have tough skin to take backlash )
c ) Your often expected to know the Dungeon / Raid well.
d) Your often expected to lead.
e) Your expected to handle the asshat in your group.
Just one short story that comes to mind :
Several years ago, I was playing a Warrior in Vanilla WoW. We were doing Scarlet Monastery. I arraigned the group. I took a lower level Paladin that begged me to take him. He was by far too low but since the majority were at a good level I decided to take him.
I had my game plan all together. Knowing that Scarlet Monastery has stubborn caster mobs, I planed to range pull them to us. I've done this many times, it works well.
Right from the start we could tell this Paladin was a heckler ( you know what I'm talking about, ONE OF THEM ).
He insisted on being the tank, and he had no ranged abilities. He insisted on NOT waiting for the group to grab agro, this pulled all mobs to us, groups and groups of them at once getting us killed. Blaming everyone around him.
Situations like this is why no one likes being the tank. Sure there are many ways of going about pulls, but when you have someone else other than the tank insisting on pulling there way you have conflict.
This is why no one likes to play a tank !.......Answer ?.....I don't know.
Comments
Tanks are hard to find because tanks are a group class and most modern MMOs are designed for solo play until you reach end-game. Nobody wants to level up as a tank because it takes a lot longer. If your class can switch from DPS to tank, many are afraid to do so because they don't know that part of their class.
Also, "you're" is the contraction for "you are." The word, "your" is used for writing, "That tank is yours," signifying it belongs to you.
I refuse to group with tanks who can't get the simple things like your and you're right.
i love tanking , and usually level a tank class in any mmorpg i play i main tanked some raids on current content ,and enjoyed it , however tanking has lots of problems
1- low dmg ,for farming is ugh....
2- u NEED to know the encounter before even trying to tank it (pugs),even if u did the encounter as dps / healer u still dont know tank mechanics.
3- most geared dependant class no1 takes a iLVL X tank for X content, they usually take ilvlX+50 to iLVL X because that make the boss easy.
Nothing can be done to fix it , u can give tanks a dps stance to fix 1 , but 2-3 are what make ppl avoid tanks like the plague.
No, my previous experiences say, it's always the healers fault, tank is just second.
And i like to play tank because im the type of person who wants and likes to lead.
Not to mention the ability, to kick people with under 20iq from your party as a leader.
Though i don't exactly like kicking ppl, especially in the middle of an instance, putting the place to cd with it.
Sometimes, it must be done.
I think the main reason people are avoiding tanks is because they don't beleieve they can lead a group efficiently.
There is not much magic in tanking really, 99% of the games are tank and spank, all you need is gear to do so.
In pvp they tend to produce low dps, and people usually want to kill others besides surviving.
OP.. I agree with pretty much you position on this.. Playing a tank in most modern day games is either boring or a pain in the ass.. Playing a tank in EQ for example was more enjoyable in a group environment then WoW and other modern day games.. But, one slight exception would be GW2.. IMO, to make playing a "tank" more appealing I think a couple things need to happen.. Instead of focusing on calling a plate armor class a tank, lets go back to being a meat shield.. I'm not a fan of today's over used "taunt" system.. Such as WoW, where playing a tank is all about controlling taunt skills and defense/dodge stats..
I would like to see plate meat shield become an active member of the DPS clan.. In EQ1 original they were.. It really didn't matter if you were a shadow knight, paladin, bard, warrior or even a ranger. (lol) Someone with armor just needed to be a meat shield.. Everyone else just had to learn to not OVERCOOK their dps that would cause argo.. I actually would like to see games install a new twist to agro management.. >> PROXIMITY <<< The closer you are to the mob the higher chance you'll get smacked by mob.. Example would take place like this.. Warrior that does 100dps point blank, is going to be #1 on that mobs agro list if all other players in the group are at 100dps or lower.. Now lets say you have a rogue that jumps into the fight and does 120dps point blank backstabbing.. HE WILL become #1 on the agro list now, and rightfully so.. However lets use proximity for example, and assume a mage 10 feet away does 130 dps.. YES, he does the most dps, but because he is farther away, the mob doesn't really take that into consideration.. That 130 dps with a proximity adjustment might convert to 102 dps (according to the agro list).. If the mage moves back, the agro number might drop down to 93.. So the further away from the mob, the dps you can afford to shell out without risk of getting smacked..
Different battle is a ranger shooting bow at 50m is smacking the mob with 150dps, but since he is so far away, the agro list is only recording him at 109.. However if the ranger moves up and gets closer to mob, or mob moves and gets closer to ranger, that number will change.. His 150 dps might now be 138 according to the agro list and now the ranger has a new friend.. UNTIL someone deals with the mob, or ranger learns to deal with his dps / proximity issue.. LOL
You obviously have a bad opinion of tanks, but a personal opinion is all it is. I, on the other hand, have a completely different opinion of a tank. IMHO, tanks are a great class. The reason people don't play them often is because they are a class requiring great leadership ability. Most people shy away from taking a leadership role, and many who accept the role fall short of the ability. Playing tank screams I am the leader and players expect leadership from a tank. If the tank is incapable of leading, such as the example of the Paladin you played with, he will considered a bad tank. To play a tank a player must be very knowledgeable of not only his role in keeping his team mates alive but also his environment (dungeons).
As far as the functionality of the class is concerned, it is hardly boring if looked at from a different perspective. Players who enjoy playing a tank are not unlike players who enjoy playing a healer. These are support type players who enjoy helping team mates and their satisfaction in the game is directly related to the gratitude they receive from team mates for playing their role correctly. If you are a "me" type player seeking glory for your enormous DPS skills, you will never understand the mentality of playing a tank or healer. For this player, playing a tank is boring. Make no mistake about it though, it is hardly a boring a class.
The only reason it has low DPS output is because it has high survivability, and the reason a tank has high survivability is because it takes a pounding. You can't give a tank high DPS and high survivability or else the class would be OP. Granted, this makes the killing slow for the class, but it also makes the class hard to kill. It's a trade-off.
Long story short, not unlike healers, playing a tank requires great responsibility. People shun responsibility. This is why both of these classes are the backbone of the trinity system. Without them, the game is not playable.
In some games, that's the reason why too few players want to play a tank class. But that's not the underlying reason why too few players want to be a tank. In games where tank classes deal good damage when solo, you get more people playing the tank class, but a lot of those playing a tank class don't want to be a tank when in groups.
If the tank(s) screw up everybody dies.
To this day, people STILL "stand in the fire". So in general, people are terrible and aren't capable of taking on a role in which they have to not only avoid making any mistakes of their own, but also have to be careful of which mobs are where and what poses a danger to the group.
The healer exists to fix mistakes and to keep the tank alive. The tank exists to prevent mistakes. The dps exists so the HP bar can go down. One of these three roles requires very little additional effort. Don't get me wrong a good dps player is a great thing to have. But they are few and far between and most content is done on the backs of tanks and healers.
Tanks damage dealing capability """"problem"""" is a non-issue. why do people keep bringing it up?
Usually tank takes the role of the leader, and has the most responsibility. Obviously most people don't want that burden on themselves.
Fighting critters in the open world that die in 5 seconds whether you're a cleric or a glass cannon will not make such a difference. Especially when it's incredibly easy to give tanks a "tanking stance" which lowers their damage output in a group setting, yet enables them to deal respectable damage in a solo situation.
When it comes time to group up people want to be led, not lead themselves.
Tanking is boring and stressful. Two things I don't want in a video game.
But nobody other than the paladin blamed you for that. So how can you say you as the tank is always blamed?
i simply want more tanking tools to take the load and make the runs less stressful.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Tank class is boring - club shit to death for forever and bash it with a shield - ooo, yay. Outside a dungeon, in a PvE environment, you are useless. Any attempt by devs to improve tank usually result in a tank that is to hard to learn/perform for most novice non-tanking peeps.
Tank is also often put in the command position leading dungeon parties, because, obviously, s/he needs to take the first hits. Being point leaves the tank open to a lot of criticism. "Why did you lead us this way?? Do you really know where you're going? Can we just run this straight through without stopping for every chest!" And every gripe between. All lands on the tank's shoulders. If the tank says, "I'm new, some patience plz," half the party drops to form around a more confident tank.
Basically, the job sucks.
And the armor covers to much and makes you look like a robot.
It's pretty simple actually, there is a lot of responsibility with that role and the vast majority don't want it on their shoulders.
The tank should know the layout of the map, where trash is and how much to pick up without putting the healer under too much stress. Should know every mechanic of the boss. When to avoid a cleave, when and where the adds will spawn.
Most of the times a DPS would just stay in the back and pew pew for the whole fight and that's a comfortable position for many.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
IMO it's not because of group or solo, or defense/offense. It's because tanks are seen to be responsible for keeping the rest of the team alive, more so than healers even.
Again IMO, most people just play for fun and do not want to be held responsible for a group's performance.
Yeah, that's the other half of it. Tanks definitely take on an elevated level of responsibility, and it shows. In a recent MMORPG using the tank, healer, DD scheme (FFXIV:ARR), there are two different twenty-four man raids. The first one had six tanks total and the second one only used three tanks to deal with the role disparity. Which of the two do you think had more complex boss fights?
If you guessed the one that needed six tanks, you'd be the winner! The battles required more coordination than the second twenty-four man raid, whose fights necessitated strategies no more complex than any of the eight man content in the game that uses two tanks.
Damage dealers do not really contribute anything strategically to the fight. The responsibilities of positioning and controlling the monsters completely falls to the tank. All a damage dealer needs to do is do large numbers, play the dancing game, and not much else. If damage dealers were removed from the fight and all their damage dealing ability was put into the tank and healer, would anyone notice they were gone?
Sounds about right. In short it comes down to people prefering the "stress free" play experience. Douchey DPS that pull everything are indeed also a small part of what ruins the experience.
I think a lot of experienced tanks have gotten used to warning these guys once and then ruthlessly kicking them out of the group the moment it becomes clear that's the only way they'll ever learn.
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I think it just boils down to these.
Being a tank means being in a position of responsibility, and most don't want that (though that will ofc not stop them from having an opinion as they follow around spamming DPS).
like many have said before, too much focus on solo play affects group roles. The current trinity is broken and its a tucked in mechanic, an after thought.
Make it right or get rid of it. There is room for new group combat/role mechanics.
I vote for get rid of it. Just balance games like an action game, you don't need rigid group roles.
Reasons why people don't play tanks that often:
- more difficult
- more challenging
- you are not the omg-i-kill-everything guy
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)