Originally posted by GeezerGamer My 1st thought when I read the title of this thread on the home page was......."Another one?" But then after reading the post, I don't think it's really a new issue. Many people saw this coming and predicted this scenario back in the Alpha and Beta.
There is nothing to predict. It's been done times and times again and guess, it will be done in the future as well. If you have open world pvp -> mindblowingly guilds emerge and just outnumber everything you throw at them. I've been at both sides, the 3 sides actually in Lineage 2.
I've been part of the largest guild full of nubcakes that just spam 2-3 abilities and rely on pure numbers to win
I've been part of smaller opposing guilds who play with structure and tactic
I've also been a solo roamer.
Let me tell you this ... every open world pvp game has, is and will be reduced to this. Numbers > all
Sure there is the possibility of smaller group beating up the larger group it has been done times and times again but its a fluff. It doesn't happen all the time.
Simple fact is, people are sheep. They don't carve their own legend, they follow the beaten path. Join an already large guild for safety and protection, reach endgame, start zerging. Its the shortest path to success and everybody is taking it.
Kudos to all those guild leaders that manage to control this whole mob of players! I've tried many times and only succeeded once and then left the game for good because too much drama
So, yes... ArcheAge is not the Ultimate Sandbox, but it's more sandbox than 99% of other MMO's.
Just because you make a graph and slap some words on it does not make AA a Sandbox game.
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Name just one Sandbox feature that AA has, JUST ONE. Please don't say zoned prefabricated housing because that is not sandbox, free terraforming and custom built housing would be.
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Where is the Sand in this box and where are the tools to manipulate said Sand?
well then i start by pointing to the subject of this very topic :
"problem - Zerg guilds"
The conditions for such to exist as "problem" are : seamless persistant world, player driven economy / features, FFA PvP.
No needto go further, lotsa sand already at this point.
A Themepark with open world pvp is not a sandbox.
Since when is FFA PvP = Sandbox? People are even more clueless than i thought, no wonder they are buying the "Ultimate Sandbox" bullshit.
So, yes... ArcheAge is not the Ultimate Sandbox, but it's more sandbox than 99% of other MMO's.
Just because you make a graph and slap some words on it does not make AA a Sandbox game.
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Name just one Sandbox feature that AA has, JUST ONE. Please don't say zoned prefabricated housing because that is not sandbox, free terraforming and custom built housing would be.
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Where is the Sand in this box and where are the tools to manipulate said Sand?
well then i start by pointing to the subject of this very topic :
"problem - Zerg guilds"
The conditions for such to exist as "problem" are : seamless persistant world, player driven economy / features, FFA PvP.
No needto go further, lotsa sand already at this point.
A Themepark with open world pvp is not a sandbox.
Since when is FFA PvP = Sandbox? People are even more clueless than i thought, no wonder they are buying the "Ultimate Sandbox" bullshit.
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There is no sand in the box.
Then enlighten me please on what a sandbox is.
I ll gave you already 3 specifics (semaless persistant world, playerdriven economy, FFA PvP) und you just use a generalization to label something "themepark".
Better then the question about sandbox is to answer me this question : what makes a "themepark" for you ?
Originally posted by holdenhamlet So I'm on Tahyang with Oran'thul and they basically control everything. I've read about other servers having their own zerg guild issues.
Freedich is on lockdown most of the time and if it isn't, they can easily zerg in through their house to overwhelm anyone trying to make a large turn in.
The west has never won a Halcyona. Hasla is theirs whenever they feel like driving everyone out. It's looking bleak for the update as OT is probably going to zerg their way to a couple castles at least.
PVP is basically pointless as I'm always in a 5to1 disadvantage. Basically my game-play is relegated to logging in, milking my cows, and logging off.
Allowing guilds with so many people is bad enough, but the game has been out for years so they had all the information they needed to lock down everything. It really seems like a zerg guild in this version of the game is basically able to ruin a server.
I suggest limiting the cap on guilds to say 300 or even 500. The current way it is just allows for too much global dominance and is going to drive people away. I'm already trying to find a new game since almost anything is better than milking cows. I have over a thousand gold but there's no point in spending it on gear if I'll always be against impossible odds.
What's the point of playing a sandbox PVP game if you can never win?
I am on the same server, and though they can be a problem, they can be stopped using tactics. We have kept them from winning Halcyona before, though we didn't win either. We have done tug-o-wars with them in Hasla. And we have beat them at Freedich. We did an alliance run of trade packs there with a fleet. We had a scouting party watch for their movements and we shut them down at their house. That forced them to come by sea, and we drove away their galleon. Yes, we had sizable numbers, but we also used tactics. It is tough, but it adds a layer of fun as well.
A few things that tend to happen in these situations.
1) The zerg guild becomes bored with lack of true competition, a portion breaks off and moves factions/servers reducing the numbers in the original zerg guild.
2) The general public on the server gets sick of the zerg guild, band together and form their own zerg alliance. Degrees of success can vary greatly.
3) People get sick of it, quit the game or move to a server without the issue. Which eventually leads to number 1 happening.
Even if guild sizes were reduced there's really nothing from zerg guilds from forming multiple guilds and zerging anyway. It's not really an issue that any developer can or even necessarily should deal with. It's a game where PvP interactions are common and expected and that comes with all sorts of unexpected events.
People don't form a Zerg guild because they want "true competition", they form one because they enjoy griefing others, so a Zerg guild will not break up because of no competition, they may break up because of a lack of victims when the server becomes a ghost town. But this is not good for the game as it drives away business.
This is a gank game. Why are you shocked. Many, including myself, have been pointing this out well before launch. Further reason to support my skipping this benighted game.
If you don't enjoy being killed over and over again there are other games for you to play. This was my decision.
Lets all agree that nobody knows what a sandbox is and that this is okay. Its overused fluff term and end this thread already. Because i'm fairly certain that if you ask 10 different people what sandbox is they will give you 10 different opinions.
Originally posted by holdenhamlet So I'm on Tahyang with Oran'thul and they basically control everything. I've read about other servers having their own zerg guild issues.
I suggest limiting the cap on guilds to say 300 or even 500. The current way it is just allows for too much global dominance and is going to drive people away. I'm already trying to find a new game since almost anything is better than milking cows. I have over a thousand gold but there's no point in spending it on gear if I'll always be against impossible odds.
What's the point of playing a sandbox PVP game if you can never win?
Zergs are ALWAYS going to be a problem in MMOs. Or in any game that allows a large group of people to play together in the same space. Dealing w/ zergs is a massive catch 22, because you're fighting human nature.
People will always want to group up, and be part of a larger group. That's just who we are. There are ways to deter this with game mechanics, but there's a limit to how effective that can be. Perhaps the 2 most effective methods are limited/no AoE caps, siege equipment, and population-based guild taxes. But people will just complain about those as well.
People don't like being overrun by 100s of idiots acting tough. But people also hate getting their army destroyed by some scrub on a catapult, or a noob spamming meteor. You can increase taxes based on guild population, but that can make things worse, as they then spend more time camping zones (to farm the resources), or worse they stop playing you're game because you're punishing them for playing with too many friends.
Guild caps do nothing, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, as people will just split that guild up into multiple smaller guilds (something a few guilds have already done on other servers).
- The only way to truly solve such a problem is through instancing & zone caps, but no one wants that. It kills the whole seamless / open world concept.
Honestly, whether or not Archeage is a sandbox does not change whether or not this is a "potential game-breaking problem" (judging by the other versions of AA, it did indeed break the game)
But really, if you've been paying attention to those threads at mmorpg.com asking why there aren't more open-world PvP games, it'd tell you all you'd need to know.
Basically, if you want a game where the teams are marginally balanced, without gear differences or level differences or NUMBERS zerg differences screwing up the balance, OPEN WORLD PVP MMOS ARE NOT FOR YOU.
Of course, most people really DO want games that are marginally balanced where it's all about skill, not about levels. Thus the rise of the MOBA and why first person shooters are so much more popular than open world PvP MMOs.
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Originally posted by holdenhamlet So I'm on Tahyang with Oran'thul and they basically control everything. I've read about other servers having their own zerg guild issues.
What's the point of playing a sandbox PVP game if you can never win?
Get organised.
I play Harani and our answer to big red zerg guilds was to build trusted alliances.
So, yeah, less complaining about it being unfair and more getting organised and taking it back.
Get in to TS with other guilds, support them on TRs and make sure you get with them for Hasla or whatever.
Get organized? Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, when dealing with the Chinese players who took over shadowbane, we organized every guild on the server. Even then it was still a 10v1 ratio. Your comment implies its the minorities fault in an attempt to keep AA looking shiny. Typical.
You talk about SB a lot here because you clearly haven't played AAbeyond L10 (if that) and have no relevant first hand experience with this game to share, despite hanging around these forums continuously in order to share your negative 'wisdom'.
You have ignored the part the part where I play on the minority side on my server and that we have the same issue to face. We solved it by supporting each other, communicating... By generally organising and being willing to fight for what we want.
This is all in your continued effort to keep bringing the title down, no matter what is said to you.
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
I love your attitude Jabas, it's all about the fun.
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
That's why I just said "Many people find they'd rather not pay that price" rather than "ALL people". Surely, there are some people that are willing to pay the price of unbalanced PvP for the open-ness of it and the world (and all the good things that could come with it), and those people are NOT in the game just to gank others in zerg fests, which is why I made sure to mention that alternative reason for liking open world PvP MMOs.
Sadly, however, they are a rather niche group of people. To the point where sometimes even people who think they're willing to pay that price soon find out they'd rather not (which I'm starting to see with several Archeage posts) or where many people don't realize that price is there in the first place (like possibly the OP)
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
That's why I just said "Many people find they'd rather not pay that price" rather than "ALL people". Surely, there are some people that are willing to pay the price of unbalanced PvP for the open-ness of it and the world (and all the good things that could come with it), and those people are NOT in the game just to gank others in zerg fests, which is why I made sure to mention that alternative reason for liking open world PvP MMOs.
Sadly, however, they are a rather niche group of people. To the point where sometimes even people who think they're willing to pay that price soon find out they'd rather not (which I'm starting to see with several Archeage posts) or where many people don't realize that price is there in the first place (like possibly the OP)
Oh yes, i understand your post and is a very valid view. Was just speaking about myself and what i like in games.
Even so, i still think AA is very balance game thanks to such a big peacefull zone and other places where become peacefull from time to time. Those you want to avoid pvp and want to get more powerfull befor engage in this kind of activity it tottaly possible.
Its possible to get "stronger" in AA whithout be ganked from the "strongers", so i dont thing OwPvP so hard in AA. Just take more time to some players to "get there" then others.
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
That's why I just said "Many people find they'd rather not pay that price" rather than "ALL people". Surely, there are some people that are willing to pay the price of unbalanced PvP for the open-ness of it and the world (and all the good things that could come with it), and those people are NOT in the game just to gank others in zerg fests, which is why I made sure to mention that alternative reason for liking open world PvP MMOs.
Sadly, however, they are a rather niche group of people. To the point where sometimes even people who think they're willing to pay that price soon find out they'd rather not (which I'm starting to see with several Archeage posts) or where many people don't realize that price is there in the first place (like possibly the OP)
Oh yes, i understand your post and is a very valid view. Was just speaking about myself and what i like in games.
Even so, i still think AA is very balance game thanks to such a big peacefull zone and other places where become peacefull from time to time. Those you want to avoid pvp and want to get more powerfull befor engage in this kind of activity it tottaly possible.
Its possible to get "stronger" in AA whithout be ganked from the "strongers", so i dont thing OwPvP so hard in AA. Just take more time to some players to "get there" then others.
Sure its doable.....if you don't mind working a small farm 12 hours a day for minimal returns....while paying rent to the big zerg guilds as they make your life difficult.
But since its F2P there will be lots of people using the revolving door to fulfill this role for awhile.
Poor diplomacy on your faction side is a game-breaking problem?
Merge some guilds, form alliance, wipe them out and gank them on the graveyard. Thats what we would do on our server.
You are asking to much to nowdays mmorpg community.
Diplomacy? You do realize that the reason there are massive guilds is that everyone wants to be a winner, and migrate to the winning side.
Too bad you didnt play Shadowbane, then you would realize how silly your statement is.
Your post disregards too many aspects of the problem.
Everyone wants to be a winner. Ok, I would agree with that.
Is the only way to be a winner to migrate to the winning side? No, you can use diplomacy that I mentioned and actually face some challenge. While many people may want to go with the easiest way represented by migrating to the winning side, claiming that everyone would chose this option would be wrong.
Is there limitless possibility to migrate to the winning side? No, the "zerg guild" may stop recruiting, trion may disable character creation on the server if there is imbalance (thats what they are actually doing), etc.
No, I did not play shadowbane, but I am actually playing this game that we are talking about here. I know what is going on in our server which is that alliances are being created and that some sort of balance of power is currently in place. There is no excessive migration going on.
So please stop insulting me by saying that my statements are silly because I did not play some other game with similar meta.
I am convinced that diplomacy does represent a viable and also intended solution to this "game-breaking problem".
Sorry but players are just going to switch to the winning side.
Maybe if it was only a sub and the players were invested in protecting their play time.
But since its F2P people will just move on.
Good luck trying to rally all the F2P players against a zerg guild.....sadly they will just re-roll....benefit of the game being free.
Originally posted by holdenhamlet So I'm on Tahyang with Oran'thul and they basically control everything. I've read about other servers having their own zerg guild issues.
Freedich is on lockdown most of the time and if it isn't, they can easily zerg in through their house to overwhelm anyone trying to make a large turn in.
The west has never won a Halcyona. Hasla is theirs whenever they feel like driving everyone out. It's looking bleak for the update as OT is probably going to zerg their way to a couple castles at least.
PVP is basically pointless as I'm always in a 5to1 disadvantage. Basically my game-play is relegated to logging in, milking my cows, and logging off.
Allowing guilds with so many people is bad enough, but the game has been out for years so they had all the information they needed to lock down everything. It really seems like a zerg guild in this version of the game is basically able to ruin a server.
I suggest limiting the cap on guilds to say 300 or even 500. The current way it is just allows for too much global dominance and is going to drive people away. I'm already trying to find a new game since almost anything is better than milking cows. I have over a thousand gold but there's no point in spending it on gear if I'll always be against impossible odds.
What's the point of playing a sandbox PVP game if you can never win?
That's called server imbalance... where one side greatly outnumbers the other side... and yes it is evident on most of the servers. My server the west dominates the east. No system in place to prevent imbalance, thus it happens. The side that has the most players in it's faction basically owns everything due to sheer numbers. This isn't a guild dominating, this is a faction dominating. The weaker faction usually turns on itself since it is the only way they can have any semblance of a fair fight (numbers wise). So guild capping isn't the issue... it's faction capping that is and it's way too late for that. Way too late.
Sure its doable.....if you don't mind working a small farm 12 hours a day for minimal returns....while paying rent to the big zerg guilds as they make your life difficult.
But since its F2P there will be lots of people using the revolving door to fulfill this role for awhile.
Thats not my reality in-game, if it is yours i dont make critics because each one in AA play the way he wants. And in safe zones you dont pay nothing to any guilds, your payment goes to unkwon entity, didnt really full understand your statment to be honest.
Zergs are even more unforgiving due to AA's horrible combat system which allows for chain-CC and has a ~2 second time-to-kill (TTK) in group combat.
AA's problem is that its world PvP content is full of bottle necks. Everyone is filtered to Freedich and a few other ports or Halcyona which it makes it very easy for zergs to concentrate massive amounts of people in small key areas. Freedich, Halcyona and even Hasla are also GOD AWFUL pvp maps since they are so small and are full of choke points.
The safe and close by respawn points mean death has no meaning and makes it virtually impossible to deal with a zerg since they can just keep a train of people constantly in a fight until they get enough people to overwhelm the other side. In Eve or Darkfall when you die, you are effectively out of the fight.
AA is so zerg friendly that its basically broken at a fundamental level.
Comments
There is nothing to predict. It's been done times and times again and guess, it will be done in the future as well. If you have open world pvp -> mindblowingly guilds emerge and just outnumber everything you throw at them. I've been at both sides, the 3 sides actually in Lineage 2.
I've been part of the largest guild full of nubcakes that just spam 2-3 abilities and rely on pure numbers to win
I've been part of smaller opposing guilds who play with structure and tactic
I've also been a solo roamer.
Let me tell you this ... every open world pvp game has, is and will be reduced to this. Numbers > all
Sure there is the possibility of smaller group beating up the larger group it has been done times and times again but its a fluff. It doesn't happen all the time.
Simple fact is, people are sheep. They don't carve their own legend, they follow the beaten path. Join an already large guild for safety and protection, reach endgame, start zerging. Its the shortest path to success and everybody is taking it.
Kudos to all those guild leaders that manage to control this whole mob of players! I've tried many times and only succeeded once and then left the game for good because too much drama
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
A Themepark with open world pvp is not a sandbox.
Since when is FFA PvP = Sandbox? People are even more clueless than i thought, no wonder they are buying the "Ultimate Sandbox" bullshit.
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There is no sand in the box.
Then enlighten me please on what a sandbox is.
I ll gave you already 3 specifics (semaless persistant world, playerdriven economy, FFA PvP) und you just use a generalization to label something "themepark".
Better then the question about sandbox is to answer me this question : what makes a "themepark" for you ?
I am on the same server, and though they can be a problem, they can be stopped using tactics. We have kept them from winning Halcyona before, though we didn't win either. We have done tug-o-wars with them in Hasla. And we have beat them at Freedich. We did an alliance run of trade packs there with a fleet. We had a scouting party watch for their movements and we shut them down at their house. That forced them to come by sea, and we drove away their galleon. Yes, we had sizable numbers, but we also used tactics. It is tough, but it adds a layer of fun as well.
PS. When I say we, I mean OTG.
People don't form a Zerg guild because they want "true competition", they form one because they enjoy griefing others, so a Zerg guild will not break up because of no competition, they may break up because of a lack of victims when the server becomes a ghost town. But this is not good for the game as it drives away business.
This is a gank game. Why are you shocked. Many, including myself, have been pointing this out well before launch. Further reason to support my skipping this benighted game.
If you don't enjoy being killed over and over again there are other games for you to play. This was my decision.
Lets all agree that nobody knows what a sandbox is and that this is okay. Its overused fluff term and end this thread already. Because i'm fairly certain that if you ask 10 different people what sandbox is they will give you 10 different opinions.
So no, no point in arguing here.
You are asking to much to nowdays mmorpg community.
Diplomacy? You do realize that the reason there are massive guilds is that everyone wants to be a winner, and migrate to the winning side.
Too bad you didnt play Shadowbane, then you would realize how silly your statement is.
That i didnt know, if thats for real then something is wrong with the Castles Siege system imo.
Anyway, im like you atm, waiting and see how it goes.
Zergs are ALWAYS going to be a problem in MMOs. Or in any game that allows a large group of people to play together in the same space. Dealing w/ zergs is a massive catch 22, because you're fighting human nature.
People will always want to group up, and be part of a larger group. That's just who we are. There are ways to deter this with game mechanics, but there's a limit to how effective that can be. Perhaps the 2 most effective methods are limited/no AoE caps, siege equipment, and population-based guild taxes. But people will just complain about those as well.
People don't like being overrun by 100s of idiots acting tough. But people also hate getting their army destroyed by some scrub on a catapult, or a noob spamming meteor. You can increase taxes based on guild population, but that can make things worse, as they then spend more time camping zones (to farm the resources), or worse they stop playing you're game because you're punishing them for playing with too many friends.
Guild caps do nothing, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, as people will just split that guild up into multiple smaller guilds (something a few guilds have already done on other servers).
- The only way to truly solve such a problem is through instancing & zone caps, but no one wants that. It kills the whole seamless / open world concept.
Honestly, whether or not Archeage is a sandbox does not change whether or not this is a "potential game-breaking problem" (judging by the other versions of AA, it did indeed break the game)
But really, if you've been paying attention to those threads at mmorpg.com asking why there aren't more open-world PvP games, it'd tell you all you'd need to know.
Basically, if you want a game where the teams are marginally balanced, without gear differences or level differences or NUMBERS zerg differences screwing up the balance, OPEN WORLD PVP MMOS ARE NOT FOR YOU.
Of course, most people really DO want games that are marginally balanced where it's all about skill, not about levels. Thus the rise of the MOBA and why first person shooters are so much more popular than open world PvP MMOs.
Truly, the PvP in MMOs only caters to those who either want an unfair advantage, or are willing to "pay the price" of unbalanced PvP for the sake of an "open living world". Many people (including the OP of this thread at this rate, it seems) who bothered trying it soon find out that an attempt to have "an open living world" is not worth that price.
Welcome to NA pvp where the player base breaks pvp and then wonders why no one wants to play.
Since it is F2P many will just re-roll to the winning side. What version of Aion is this?
You talk about SB a lot here because you clearly haven't played AAbeyond L10 (if that) and have no relevant first hand experience with this game to share, despite hanging around these forums continuously in order to share your negative 'wisdom'.
You have ignored the part the part where I play on the minority side on my server and that we have the same issue to face. We solved it by supporting each other, communicating... By generally organising and being willing to fight for what we want.
This is all in your continued effort to keep bringing the title down, no matter what is said to you.
Typical.
Im so ready to "pay that price". I prefer 1000x facing this "issues" and live in a open world where i face real "dangers" contribute to amazing experiences, insted in a lock system that remove all the freedom so everthing is balance, its bored to me.
And no, im not the "winner", im in the "looser" side. Playing AA since launch day, still have a 50 plate set from quests and a cloth craft set lvl 30 (green/blue itens) and a crafted green lvl 34 wapon.
Even some 2 shoots me, the adrenaline of enter in a pvp zone with packs is freaking amazing, me and my friends sometimes we even get paranoic and confuse a rock with a enemy boat
I love your attitude Jabas, it's all about the fun.
Exactly the right way to approach and enjoy AA
That's why I just said "Many people find they'd rather not pay that price" rather than "ALL people". Surely, there are some people that are willing to pay the price of unbalanced PvP for the open-ness of it and the world (and all the good things that could come with it), and those people are NOT in the game just to gank others in zerg fests, which is why I made sure to mention that alternative reason for liking open world PvP MMOs.
Sadly, however, they are a rather niche group of people. To the point where sometimes even people who think they're willing to pay that price soon find out they'd rather not (which I'm starting to see with several Archeage posts) or where many people don't realize that price is there in the first place (like possibly the OP)
Oh yes, i understand your post and is a very valid view. Was just speaking about myself and what i like in games.
Even so, i still think AA is very balance game thanks to such a big peacefull zone and other places where become peacefull from time to time. Those you want to avoid pvp and want to get more powerfull befor engage in this kind of activity it tottaly possible.
Its possible to get "stronger" in AA whithout be ganked from the "strongers", so i dont thing OwPvP so hard in AA. Just take more time to some players to "get there" then others.
Sure its doable.....if you don't mind working a small farm 12 hours a day for minimal returns....while paying rent to the big zerg guilds as they make your life difficult.
But since its F2P there will be lots of people using the revolving door to fulfill this role for awhile.
Sorry but players are just going to switch to the winning side.
Maybe if it was only a sub and the players were invested in protecting their play time.
But since its F2P people will just move on.
Good luck trying to rally all the F2P players against a zerg guild.....sadly they will just re-roll....benefit of the game being free.
Or leave.
That's called server imbalance... where one side greatly outnumbers the other side... and yes it is evident on most of the servers. My server the west dominates the east. No system in place to prevent imbalance, thus it happens. The side that has the most players in it's faction basically owns everything due to sheer numbers. This isn't a guild dominating, this is a faction dominating. The weaker faction usually turns on itself since it is the only way they can have any semblance of a fair fight (numbers wise). So guild capping isn't the issue... it's faction capping that is and it's way too late for that. Way too late.
Thats not my reality in-game, if it is yours i dont make critics because each one in AA play the way he wants. And in safe zones you dont pay nothing to any guilds, your payment goes to unkwon entity, didnt really full understand your statment to be honest.
Zergs are even more unforgiving due to AA's horrible combat system which allows for chain-CC and has a ~2 second time-to-kill (TTK) in group combat.
AA's problem is that its world PvP content is full of bottle necks. Everyone is filtered to Freedich and a few other ports or Halcyona which it makes it very easy for zergs to concentrate massive amounts of people in small key areas. Freedich, Halcyona and even Hasla are also GOD AWFUL pvp maps since they are so small and are full of choke points.
The safe and close by respawn points mean death has no meaning and makes it virtually impossible to deal with a zerg since they can just keep a train of people constantly in a fight until they get enough people to overwhelm the other side. In Eve or Darkfall when you die, you are effectively out of the fight.
AA is so zerg friendly that its basically broken at a fundamental level.