You forget sometimes, some of us don't subscribe to the development of an overhyped space game. We can't use your link.
You forget to READ sometimes.
I posted the information HERE. No need to click on the link to get the same information.
I posted the link to show where the information is coming from.
That the link is not working for you tells me that you are not a backer, because backers DO have forum access. Why you bother if you are not a backer ...
BTW you do not have to be a subscriber to use that link. It links to the normal official forum, not a subscriber section of the forum.
Have fun
So there's a separate forum from the one that anyone with Internet can access? Seems a little odd to have that behind a backer only tag but the rest of the forum is open to anyone
So there's a separate forum from the one that anyone with Internet can access? Seems a little odd to have that behind a backer only tag but the rest of the forum is open to anyone
Yes, they moved things like the off-topic forum behind a paywall, there's also a subscriber's only section of the forum behind another paywall. Gotta get that money. But what's really amusing is that the anti-SA contingent of Star Citizen that play around on the subreddit laugh and point fingers at how silly people are paying to use SA forums while doing the same thing themselves on the CIG forums.... I swear there's a correlation between intellect and money spent on Star Citizen. You even have people spending a game's subscription price on a pdf and a few chat shows... Who does that? Who on earth thinks that is good value when they could be using the money to play an actual game instead?
I think you have not understood yet that EVERY backer has access to the official Star Citizen forum with his pledge. There is no "paywall" - its all included in the pledge, which backers choose because it IS a CROWDFUNDED project where backers VOLUNTARILY support the project with money.
Yes, there are separate sections for people that are subscribers (a group of people that VOLUNTARILY donate a monthly fee e.g. to create the monthly newsletter "Jump Point"). In this separate section subscribers can send in questions for the various video blogs (like "10-(Questions)-for-the-Chairman"). Those video blogs only exist because subscribers support making those v-blogs.
EVERYTHING shown to subscribers quickly (within days or weeks) finds its way FOR FREE to all the other backers e.g. every week you see Jump Point articles appearing on the official homepage. There is NO exclusive content that only subscribers will see and normal backers will never see.
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Your responses become more and more of a raging child, I guess you should take a break from SC, you are way to much into this.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Your responses become more and more of a raging child, I guess you should take a break from SC, you are way to much into this.
Raging? Hardly.
Guess it my English humor. I like to take the piss out of stupid ideas or comments. But I find lots of cultures don't get the English sense of humor so I forgive your ignorance.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
How do these people believe the shite they write, it's like all they want to do is say "You're wrong, CIG are right" regardless of how stupid it makes them sound.
When you visit a cinema, a gym, a restaurant or whatever - you expect to pay, it is part of the commonly accepted process.
The same cannot be said for forums or websites....
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Oh lordie, how do these people believe the shite they write, it's like all they want to do is say "You're wrong, CIG are right" regardless of how stupid it makes them sound.
When you visit a cinema, a gym, a restaurant or whatever - you expect to pay, it is part of the commonly accepted process.
The same cannot be said for forums or websites....
Why do people with no interest, no investment and an unhealthy fascination in shooting down a game feel they deserve anything?
Why do people with no interest, no investment and an unhealthy fascination in shooting down a game feel they deserve anything?
I am invested you numpty, have been for a couple of years, to the mighty sum of £35. Even if I wasn't it hardly means I can't be critical of things CIG get up to. My comments are typically about the mental gymnastics some people use in trying to justify CIG's behaviour, that's all. I rarely criticise the game itself, just CIG's business practices and the fans zealotry.
Why do people with no interest, no investment and an unhealthy fascination in shooting down a game feel they deserve anything?
I am invested you numpty, have been for a couple of years, to the mighty sum of £35. Even if I wasn't it hardly means I can't be critical of things CIG get up to. My comments are typically about the mental gymnastics some people use in trying to justify CIG's behaviour, that's all. I rarely criticise the game itself, just CIG's business practices and the fans zealotry.
You're totally right, anyone has the right to be critical, but I guess if anyone disputes that criticism, then they are pulling off "mental gymnastics". Essentially what you're saying is that whenever someone posts something critical there is something over the top posted in response. The reality is that there's very little logic being posted in any of the threads, so what does it matter? Unless you feel that the business is running an elaborate money laundering scheme is plausible.
So your problem with CIG is that they are raising money? Why is raising money such a bad thing? You only put in $50 or whatever that works out to, so what's your problem? Why do you care if they continue to try to raise money? Is there a company that you're aware of that STOPS selling? I would even go as far as to say that every single Kickstarter video game project that is funded has the option to pledge even after it's ended. At least that's been my experience. Bard's Tale 4 was the last thing I backed and..... yup!!! I can still pledge if I want, or upgrade my pledge. They also had add-ons that I could buy.
My problem with critics is that they tend to isolate CIG and critique things like their business practices within a vacuum, when the vast majority of games or companies outside their bubble do the exact same thing. Tom Cruise was right, "You can't handle the truth!" Reality is that CIG readily publishes their funding amounts right on their website. BT4 could have made $200 million. There's really no way of knowing. However, they would never release those numbers. Is BT4 raising $200 million a stretch? Yes, a likely impossibility. HOWEVER, I'm not aware of any other developers who is actively publishing their current funding of a game in development. So what if they HADN'T published that information? Because they didn't really need to. As far as the public knows, they are making a $6 million game. Bwahahahaha!!!!! Stupid fuckers!!! <--- that's CIG running away with your money because you don't know any better and they just delivered you Arena Commander. Result: +$96 million profit. That right there is an easy win. You push out Arena Commander then your commitments are done and you can push out updates slowly over time.
As far as fans go, I think that maybe you're being unfair. Are you saying that critics are the innocent bystanders here? Please do remember that the majority of posts being made, currently, are posted by critics. Then it's a big circle jerk over how right they are and how amazing a post it was (when it was a link) and how they are so insightful, when the reality is that there is actually very little in the way of content or context. Then someone brings up any sort of argument and they get jumped on like a virgin prom date. They're a "white knight" or whatever else is the choice word of the day. There is ACTUALLY very few critical arguments that hold much weight when you remove them from the bubble and compare them against other projects or companies. So it generally turns into a few monkeys slinging poop back and forth, round and round over the same issues. If the critics were, in fact, more intelligent, then they would have dropped the argument long ago, yet here we are *throws poop*
No buddy this is not about refuting criticism in a well thought way, this is about people saying "It's not a paywall" when it blatanly is, or trying to draw parallels with being charged to use a forum and going to the gym or cinema. That isn't well thought out, logical rebuting, it's a knee-jerk response, it's defend CIG's honour at any cost. There's a world of difference here.
Personally I think the problem is people are too involved, financially, emotionally or both, to the point where they ascribe any and all criticism into the realm of dsmart, partly because it's a convenient clutch and partly because they're sick of the more irrational side arguing about whether Sandi is buying her sanitary items with backers money.
I don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, especially when it is emotionally charged and illogical, I believe criticism is essential, a/ it keeps the backer and the company grounded and b/ it typically helps to create a better game. Yes men don't do anyone any favours.
There are exclusive parts of the forum for the people who pay extra each month. There are parts of the RSI forum everyone can access, and I cite threads from there often. I have no clue what he's on about, he knows this.
As for why, if I don't pay $20 a month to exclusive coverage of development of a game, do I still get an opinion? I can't think of a dignified enough response to that. You're going to have to deal with it.
No buddy this is not about refuting criticism in a well thought way, this is about people saying "It's not a paywall" when it blatanly is, or trying to draw parallels with being charged to use a forum and going to the gym or cinema. That isn't well thought out, logical rebuting, it's a knee-jerk response, it's defend CIG's honour at any cost. There's a world of difference here.
Personally I think the problem is people are too involved, financially, emotionally or both, to the point where they ascribe any and all criticism into the realm of dsmart, partly because it's a convenient clutch and partly because they're sick of the more irrational side arguing about whether Sandi is buying her sanitary items with backers money.
I don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, especially when it is emotionally charged and illogical, I believe criticism is essential, a/ it keeps the backer and the company grounded and b/ it typically helps to create a better game. Yes men don't do anyone any favours.
I paid £25 for a ship. I am less invested in the game then you as it seems that is your qualifier for commitment. I am not ascribing to anything other then stating my opinion that people complaining about the game, pay wall or not, when they have no investment is worthy of ridicule.
Sure I use the paywall statement to be the but off my comment. Sure I make a stupid comment about it. But that is because ridiculous comments deserve ridicule and stupid comments should be laughed at for how stupid they are.
I would ask you to go back through my comments about this game and find a comment where I actually comment about the game other then to question 'evidence' or to ask for something to back up comments like 'scam', 'lying', 'fraud', 'ponzi scheme' and all the other ridiculous things said.
And I agree criticism is vital. But it needs to be opinion based or evidence based and clearly stated as such. What I will continually comment on is where people state something as fact but it is, until evidence is provided, simply an opinion or unsubstantiated claim.
As for defending at any cost. As soon as something bad can be substantiated over and above what I personally think is within the bounds of normal game development then I won't be defending it. But till that happens I have no problem in defending the game against stupidity or malicious commentary from people who obviously have an agenda.
So your problem with CIG is that they are raising money? Why is raising money such a bad thing?
This is a strawman argument. There are plenty of people in the world who raise/make money. No one is talking about "raising money" for the pure aspect of "raising money". At issue, which you've conveniently neglected to discuss, is "what does CIG say they will do with that money against what is CIG actually doing with that money, and what is CIG capable of doing with that money vesus what they claim they are capable".
The rest of that post is... whatever. "Just because someone does something doesn't make it right". I do take to task projects with similarly laid plans. Tom Cruise didn't coin, "you can't handle the truth". They're publishing the funding income because it makes the project have the appearance of success. On and on, I just don't have time for it right now. Too much nonsense.
No buddy this is not about refuting criticism in a well thought way, this is about people saying "It's not a paywall" when it blatanly is, or trying to draw parallels with being charged to use a forum and going to the gym or cinema. That isn't well thought out, logical rebuting, it's a knee-jerk response, it's defend CIG's honour at any cost. There's a world of difference here.
Personally I think the problem is people are too involved, financially, emotionally or both, to the point where they ascribe any and all criticism into the realm of dsmart, partly because it's a convenient clutch and partly because they're sick of the more irrational side arguing about whether Sandi is buying her sanitary items with backers money.
I don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, especially when it is emotionally charged and illogical, I believe criticism is essential, a/ it keeps the backer and the company grounded and b/ it typically helps to create a better game. Yes men don't do anyone any favours.
Ok, I really fail to see why you take issue with that or why you feel that isn't well thought out. The gym is actually a pretty good example. Like I could work out at home for free, but the gym might have advantages that I would get, if I was willing to pay that. Similarly, there are forums for things like fitness which have both free and paid sections. Also, and I am pulling this out of my ass, but I think I'm right, Pantheon is entirely paid forums. So, this isn't a new precedent and this is what I have a problem with, is people acting like CIG is horrible for doing something that's already been done for a long time.
Financially is a bit more of a stretch, I think that people are much more attached to the emotional aspect. I mean what financial investment do critics have? Yet, as I mentioned above, they start plenty-a-thread where it's only a big group of critics going round in circles just patting each other on the back about how clever and witty and bright they are.
Ok, so are you saying that any criticism seems to, generally, boil down to dsmart? Like critics attribute any argument to dsmart because it's convenient? That might be a bit of a broad brush, but I do tend to agree that the vast majority of instances of mentions of dsmart do tend to come from critics.
Now when you say that you don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, are you speaking for both the pro AND con perspective? I really haven't seen much in the way of neutral commentary come from you, which is what I would expect from someone with a logical thought process. Logic is rooted in the ability to question and critique positive and negative arguments equally or fairly or close to that. So if you can't see the errors in your own ways or perspective that's, inherently, illogical. I mean I came up with a couple pieces of anecdotal evidence to something you said was blatant. While, by definition, it is a paywall, that's not the root of your argument as you go on to make accusations that they are simply interested in defending CIGs honor at all costs. While I can respect your desire to make logical arguments, it seems that you're too emotionally invested in the subject to make them.
Because in relation to how the majority of the internet functions it IS a silly comparison. Just because there are some outlier examples it doesn't mean they can or should be used as justification for something else.
The whole dsmart thing has certainly died down but for a time long "Hurr durr derek" or "Hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" was commonplace. It was just an infantile, desparate attempt at whitewashing any and all criticism. And that's why a lot of the more fanatical forum goers deserve what they get. If they want to act like children then they lose the right to call out others who might be making a large fuss over something stupid like Sandi's panty liners.
Yes I speak about fanboyism as silly arguments from both sides BUT I only address points that I think are worth giving my time, coffee machines, car hire, murals, lamps, furniture, sanitary wear and the like are not something I even consider worth talking about.
I'm not emotionally invested at all, no more than anyone who is in a typical discussion. Perhaps you can answer something for me now. Is there one good reason why lies or misinformation shouldn't be called out?
Because in relation to how the majority of the internet functions it IS a silly comparison. Just because there are some outlier examples it doesn't mean they can or should be used as justification for something else.
The whole dsmart thing has certainly died down but for a time long "Hurr durr derek" or "Hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" was commonplace. It was just an infantile, desparate attempt at whitewashing any and all criticism. And that's why a lot of the more fanatical forum goers deserve what they get. If they want to act like children then they lose the right to call out others who might be making a large fuss over something stupid like Sandi's panty liners.
Yes I speak about fanboyism as silly arguments from both sides BUT I only address points that I think are worth giving my time, coffee machines, car hire, murals, lamps, furniture, sanitary wear and the like are not something I even consider worth talking about.
I'm not emotionally invested at all, no more than anyone who is in a typical discussion. Perhaps you can answer something for me now. Is there one good reason why lies or misinformation shouldn't be called out?
Sure, I can agree with that, but it's not advertised as something different. It's quite overtly a premium feature offered to those who subscribe. I won't say anything about you disliking the model itself. I can understand that aspect. However, I think that it's actually becoming more prevalent with crowd funding only because it seems like a pretty inexpensive value-added option. If there's one thing that can be said about CIG it's that you can be sure they will try to monetize whatever they can. You seem to dislike that, that's fine. I could really care less. I feel like it's very much the desire of almost any North American company. Certainly monetization strategies blown up and I don't think there is a lack of hate for those.
You're taking the "hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" and making it sound like those people are retarded, but you might as well equate it to calling someone a white knight. I mean I've made, probably, a short novel worth of logical posts on here which were followed up with me being called a white knight, and that was about the extent of their argument. So while there might be some "hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" there is an equal amount of "hurr durr ur a white knight". Again, you also assert that there is this massive group of pro-SC fanatics, but there is an equal amount of illogical detractors.
I totally agree about some of the arguments about spending and how some people believe that they are unsanctioned or shouldn't use backers money for. People don't understand that there are inherent costs to running a company. Does anyone who how much a cubicle costs? You'd probably fall over if you did. Yet I'm sure there wouldn't be any discussion over spending if there was a sea of cubicles.
I have no problems talking about lies and misinformation. What specifically?
Nothing specifically but that is where this all started, and certain people seem to have a problem with that.
The forums never used to be a paid "feature" and it was switched to that model under the claim of curbing negative commentary which is bullshit whichever way you look at it. Anyhow this is all besides the point. If we were to go back through the thread you'll see that this started from me simply confirming that there are areas of the forums that are only viewable if you have paid CIG money. That is a simple fact. From that point onwards there was protesting that it wasn't a paid feature, that it was no different than going to a gym etc. It got very silly and only one side was being silly about it.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here, you want to imply that I should be calling out fors and againsts but that's not my job, I'm not a mediator, I'm not claiming complete lack of bias in any of this, I reply to what I want to reply. I've got no justification to make for my comments and you have no position to ask for any. You're asking me to explain my position but I don't see you doing that to people pro-SC. What gives you the right to imply I should be doing X if you're not doing it yourself?
And now I've said more in a couple of hours than I usually do in a month.
Nothing specifically but that is where this all started, and certain people seem to have a problem with that.
The forums never used to be a paid "feature" and it was switched to that model under the claim of curbing negative commentary which is bullshit whichever way you look at it. Anyhow this is all besides the point. If we were to go back through the thread you'll see that this started from me simply confirming that there are areas of the forums that are only viewable if you have paid CIG money. That is a simple fact. From that point onwards there was protesting that it wasn't a paid feature, that it was no different than going to a gym etc. It got very silly and only one side was being silly about it.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here, you want to imply that I should be calling out fors and againsts but that's not my job, I'm not a mediator, I'm not claiming complete lack of bias in any of this, I reply to what I want to reply. I've got no justification to make for my comments and you have no position to ask for any. You're asking me to explain my position but I don't see you doing that to people pro-SC. What gives you the right to imply I should be doing X if you're not doing it yourself?
And now I've said more in a couple of hours than I usually do in a month.
I tend to get hung up on semantics which is why I don't really like the word "lies" because it suggests knowledge of their deception. I don't think that there are many or any "lies" surrounding SC. I think one of the big hang-ups is on ship date. The KS date was an estimated date and I think they did ship AC around that time. If that's what we would believe that date was in reference to. For those who thought that a vast persistent "impossible" world would be shipped in a matter of a year or two, I think that they might need a reality check. Maybe crowdfunding isn't for them.
I agree with you that there is a paid section. Technically, that is a pay wall. However, it's not something I consider to be a poor business practice. It's making money and for those who subscribe I think it's a nice place for them to, probably, get together and be sheltered from what they'd likely consider bullshit.
What I'm driving at is that you're not logical. As much as you'd like to claim that you are, if you are unwilling to accept arguments which contradict your own opinion that is inherently illogical. Some people may make far-fetched comparisons, but they are no less logical than your own. I don't seek justification for your comments, I'm just pointing out that you're no better than any other white knight on here. If you'd like, I can cite a plethora of times where I openly admit issues within CIG which is contradictory to my own position. Actually, Brenics actually almost died of a heart attack when I did agree with him on something.
I could care less if you think CIG is the devil. Just don't stand there and claim to be the only logical argument, when you're unwilling to consider any other argument than your own. Anything else is "silly".
I think you have not understood yet that EVERY backer has access to the official Star Citizen forum with his pledge. There is no "paywall" - its all included in the pledge, which backers choose because it IS a CROWDFUNDED project where backers VOLUNTARILY support the project with money.
Yes, there are separate sections for people that are subscribers (a group of people that VOLUNTARILY donate a monthly fee e.g. to create the monthly newsletter "Jump Point"). In this separate section subscribers can send in questions for the various video blogs (like "10-(Questions)-for-the-Chairman"). Those video blogs only exist because subscribers support making those v-blogs.
EVERYTHING shown to subscribers quickly (within days or weeks) finds its way FOR FREE to all the other backers e.g. every week you see Jump Point articles appearing on the official homepage. There is NO exclusive content that only subscribers will see and normal backers will never see.
You need to calm down a little. It might just be me but your post is coming across as a little desperate.
What you just described is the definition of a paywall. Theres the regular RSI forum which anyone can view but need to be a backer to post in, a soft paywall. There's the forums only backers can see, a hard paywall, and then there is a subscriber only forum which is another hard paywall.
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Look up the definition of a paywall before you try and point out the stupidity of a comment with stupid remarks. Seems like only one person was making stupid remarks and it wasn't @rpmcmurphy ;
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Look up the definition of a paywall before you try and point out the stupidity of a comment with stupid remarks. Seems like only one person was making stupid remarks and it wasn't @rpmcmurphy ;
Of course it's a paywall. The majority of the forums cannot be accessed to read, let alone post, unless you have paid money to CIG. Whether it's granted via a pledge or by a $5 spend is irrelevant, you cannot acces it until you have paid - the very definition of a paywall.
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
My cinema has a paywall too. They fucking expect me to pay to see the films they show damn money grabbing rip off if you ask me!!!
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
Look up the definition of a paywall before you try and point out the stupidity of a comment with stupid remarks. Seems like only one person was making stupid remarks and it wasn't @rpmcmurphy ;
Paywall....
As in something you pay to gain access to.
what did I miss?
That gas for your car or going to the movies isn't a paywall and that I'm pointing out the hilarity in you saying in a different comment how you like to take the piss out of stupid comments when yours deserves the same treatment
Comments
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Yes, they moved things like the off-topic forum behind a paywall, there's also a subscriber's only section of the forum behind another paywall. Gotta get that money.
But what's really amusing is that the anti-SA contingent of Star Citizen that play around on the subreddit laugh and point fingers at how silly people are paying to use SA forums while doing the same thing themselves on the CIG forums.... I swear there's a correlation between intellect and money spent on Star Citizen.
You even have people spending a game's subscription price on a pdf and a few chat shows... Who does that? Who on earth thinks that is good value when they could be using the money to play an actual game instead?
Yes, there are separate sections for people that are subscribers (a group of people that VOLUNTARILY donate a monthly fee e.g. to create the monthly newsletter "Jump Point"). In this separate section subscribers can send in questions for the various video blogs (like "10-(Questions)-for-the-Chairman"). Those video blogs only exist because subscribers support making those v-blogs.
EVERYTHING shown to subscribers quickly (within days or weeks) finds its way FOR FREE to all the other backers e.g. every week you see Jump Point articles appearing on the official homepage. There is NO exclusive content that only subscribers will see and normal backers will never see.
People who are NOT backers cannot POST to the official Star Citizen forums. Why ? Dilbert knows !
http://dilbert.com/series/67-Dick-from-the-Internet
Have fun
You keep sucking it up mate, it amazes me that people such as yourself somehow justify these money grubbing practices with their lame excuses, but then what can one expect from people that hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for in-game assets.
Oh and do NOT get me started on the local gym. they have even installed the gym behind glass windows just to piss me off so I can see the gym equipment but not actually use them!!!
Petrol for my car...another paywall!.
I see paywalls everywhere, why the fuck will no one let me do stuff for free!!!!!!!!
Happy Friday.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Guess it my English humor. I like to take the piss out of stupid ideas or comments. But I find lots of cultures don't get the English sense of humor so I forgive your ignorance.
How do these people believe the shite they write, it's like all they want to do is say "You're wrong, CIG are right" regardless of how stupid it makes them sound.
When you visit a cinema, a gym, a restaurant or whatever - you expect to pay, it is part of the commonly accepted process.
The same cannot be said for forums or websites....
I am invested you numpty, have been for a couple of years, to the mighty sum of £35.
Even if I wasn't it hardly means I can't be critical of things CIG get up to. My comments are typically about the mental gymnastics some people use in trying to justify CIG's behaviour, that's all. I rarely criticise the game itself, just CIG's business practices and the fans zealotry.
Anyone has the right to be critical, just look at the 'unpopular opinions' thread on the SC zealot's subreddit as proof, 1000 replies in 13 hours - https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4dtm93/lets_have_an_unpopular_opinions_thread/
You're totally right, anyone has the right to be critical, but I guess if anyone disputes that criticism, then they are pulling off "mental gymnastics". Essentially what you're saying is that whenever someone posts something critical there is something over the top posted in response. The reality is that there's very little logic being posted in any of the threads, so what does it matter? Unless you feel that the business is running an elaborate money laundering scheme is plausible.
So your problem with CIG is that they are raising money? Why is raising money such a bad thing? You only put in $50 or whatever that works out to, so what's your problem? Why do you care if they continue to try to raise money? Is there a company that you're aware of that STOPS selling? I would even go as far as to say that every single Kickstarter video game project that is funded has the option to pledge even after it's ended. At least that's been my experience. Bard's Tale 4 was the last thing I backed and..... yup!!! I can still pledge if I want, or upgrade my pledge. They also had add-ons that I could buy.
My problem with critics is that they tend to isolate CIG and critique things like their business practices within a vacuum, when the vast majority of games or companies outside their bubble do the exact same thing. Tom Cruise was right, "You can't handle the truth!" Reality is that CIG readily publishes their funding amounts right on their website. BT4 could have made $200 million. There's really no way of knowing. However, they would never release those numbers. Is BT4 raising $200 million a stretch? Yes, a likely impossibility. HOWEVER, I'm not aware of any other developers who is actively publishing their current funding of a game in development. So what if they HADN'T published that information? Because they didn't really need to. As far as the public knows, they are making a $6 million game. Bwahahahaha!!!!! Stupid fuckers!!! <--- that's CIG running away with your money because you don't know any better and they just delivered you Arena Commander. Result: +$96 million profit. That right there is an easy win. You push out Arena Commander then your commitments are done and you can push out updates slowly over time.
As far as fans go, I think that maybe you're being unfair. Are you saying that critics are the innocent bystanders here? Please do remember that the majority of posts being made, currently, are posted by critics. Then it's a big circle jerk over how right they are and how amazing a post it was (when it was a link) and how they are so insightful, when the reality is that there is actually very little in the way of content or context. Then someone brings up any sort of argument and they get jumped on like a virgin prom date. They're a "white knight" or whatever else is the choice word of the day. There is ACTUALLY very few critical arguments that hold much weight when you remove them from the bubble and compare them against other projects or companies. So it generally turns into a few monkeys slinging poop back and forth, round and round over the same issues. If the critics were, in fact, more intelligent, then they would have dropped the argument long ago, yet here we are *throws poop*
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Personally I think the problem is people are too involved, financially, emotionally or both, to the point where they ascribe any and all criticism into the realm of dsmart, partly because it's a convenient clutch and partly because they're sick of the more irrational side arguing about whether Sandi is buying her sanitary items with backers money.
I don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, especially when it is emotionally charged and illogical, I believe criticism is essential, a/ it keeps the backer and the company grounded and b/ it typically helps to create a better game.
Yes men don't do anyone any favours.
As for why, if I don't pay $20 a month to exclusive coverage of development of a game, do I still get an opinion? I can't think of a dignified enough response to that. You're going to have to deal with it.
I am less invested in the game then you as it seems that is your qualifier for commitment.
I am not ascribing to anything other then stating my opinion that people complaining about the game, pay wall or not, when they have no investment is worthy of ridicule.
Sure I use the paywall statement to be the but off my comment. Sure I make a stupid comment about it. But that is because ridiculous comments deserve ridicule and stupid comments should be laughed at for how stupid they are.
I would ask you to go back through my comments about this game and find a comment where I actually comment about the game other then to question 'evidence' or to ask for something to back up comments like 'scam', 'lying', 'fraud', 'ponzi scheme' and all the other ridiculous things said.
And I agree criticism is vital. But it needs to be opinion based or evidence based and clearly stated as such. What I will continually comment on is where people state something as fact but it is, until evidence is provided, simply an opinion or unsubstantiated claim.
As for defending at any cost. As soon as something bad can be substantiated over and above what I personally think is within the bounds of normal game development then I won't be defending it. But till that happens I have no problem in defending the game against stupidity or malicious commentary from people who obviously have an agenda.
The rest of that post is... whatever. "Just because someone does something doesn't make it right". I do take to task projects with similarly laid plans. Tom Cruise didn't coin, "you can't handle the truth". They're publishing the funding income because it makes the project have the appearance of success. On and on, I just don't have time for it right now. Too much nonsense.
Ok, I really fail to see why you take issue with that or why you feel that isn't well thought out. The gym is actually a pretty good example. Like I could work out at home for free, but the gym might have advantages that I would get, if I was willing to pay that. Similarly, there are forums for things like fitness which have both free and paid sections. Also, and I am pulling this out of my ass, but I think I'm right, Pantheon is entirely paid forums. So, this isn't a new precedent and this is what I have a problem with, is people acting like CIG is horrible for doing something that's already been done for a long time.
Financially is a bit more of a stretch, I think that people are much more attached to the emotional aspect. I mean what financial investment do critics have? Yet, as I mentioned above, they start plenty-a-thread where it's only a big group of critics going round in circles just patting each other on the back about how clever and witty and bright they are.
Ok, so are you saying that any criticism seems to, generally, boil down to dsmart? Like critics attribute any argument to dsmart because it's convenient? That might be a bit of a broad brush, but I do tend to agree that the vast majority of instances of mentions of dsmart do tend to come from critics.
Now when you say that you don't enjoy the fanboism or whiteknighting, are you speaking for both the pro AND con perspective? I really haven't seen much in the way of neutral commentary come from you, which is what I would expect from someone with a logical thought process. Logic is rooted in the ability to question and critique positive and negative arguments equally or fairly or close to that. So if you can't see the errors in your own ways or perspective that's, inherently, illogical. I mean I came up with a couple pieces of anecdotal evidence to something you said was blatant. While, by definition, it is a paywall, that's not the root of your argument as you go on to make accusations that they are simply interested in defending CIGs honor at all costs. While I can respect your desire to make logical arguments, it seems that you're too emotionally invested in the subject to make them.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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The whole dsmart thing has certainly died down but for a time long "Hurr durr derek" or "Hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" was commonplace. It was just an infantile, desparate attempt at whitewashing any and all criticism. And that's why a lot of the more fanatical forum goers deserve what they get. If they want to act like children then they lose the right to call out others who might be making a large fuss over something stupid like Sandi's panty liners.
Yes I speak about fanboyism as silly arguments from both sides BUT I only address points that I think are worth giving my time, coffee machines, car hire, murals, lamps, furniture, sanitary wear and the like are not something I even consider worth talking about.
I'm not emotionally invested at all, no more than anyone who is in a typical discussion.
Perhaps you can answer something for me now. Is there one good reason why lies or misinformation shouldn't be called out?
Sure, I can agree with that, but it's not advertised as something different. It's quite overtly a premium feature offered to those who subscribe. I won't say anything about you disliking the model itself. I can understand that aspect. However, I think that it's actually becoming more prevalent with crowd funding only because it seems like a pretty inexpensive value-added option. If there's one thing that can be said about CIG it's that you can be sure they will try to monetize whatever they can. You seem to dislike that, that's fine. I could really care less. I feel like it's very much the desire of almost any North American company. Certainly monetization strategies blown up and I don't think there is a lack of hate for those.
You're taking the "hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" and making it sound like those people are retarded, but you might as well equate it to calling someone a white knight. I mean I've made, probably, a short novel worth of logical posts on here which were followed up with me being called a white knight, and that was about the extent of their argument. So while there might be some "hurr durr ur in da dsmart camp" there is an equal amount of "hurr durr ur a white knight". Again, you also assert that there is this massive group of pro-SC fanatics, but there is an equal amount of illogical detractors.
I totally agree about some of the arguments about spending and how some people believe that they are unsanctioned or shouldn't use backers money for. People don't understand that there are inherent costs to running a company. Does anyone who how much a cubicle costs? You'd probably fall over if you did. Yet I'm sure there wouldn't be any discussion over spending if there was a sea of cubicles.
I have no problems talking about lies and misinformation. What specifically?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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The forums never used to be a paid "feature" and it was switched to that model under the claim of curbing negative commentary which is bullshit whichever way you look at it.
Anyhow this is all besides the point. If we were to go back through the thread you'll see that this started from me simply confirming that there are areas of the forums that are only viewable if you have paid CIG money. That is a simple fact. From that point onwards there was protesting that it wasn't a paid feature, that it was no different than going to a gym etc. It got very silly and only one side was being silly about it.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here, you want to imply that I should be calling out fors and againsts but that's not my job, I'm not a mediator, I'm not claiming complete lack of bias in any of this, I reply to what I want to reply. I've got no justification to make for my comments and you have no position to ask for any. You're asking me to explain my position but I don't see you doing that to people pro-SC. What gives you the right to imply I should be doing X if you're not doing it yourself?
And now I've said more in a couple of hours than I usually do in a month.
I tend to get hung up on semantics which is why I don't really like the word "lies" because it suggests knowledge of their deception. I don't think that there are many or any "lies" surrounding SC. I think one of the big hang-ups is on ship date. The KS date was an estimated date and I think they did ship AC around that time. If that's what we would believe that date was in reference to. For those who thought that a vast persistent "impossible" world would be shipped in a matter of a year or two, I think that they might need a reality check. Maybe crowdfunding isn't for them.
I agree with you that there is a paid section. Technically, that is a pay wall. However, it's not something I consider to be a poor business practice. It's making money and for those who subscribe I think it's a nice place for them to, probably, get together and be sheltered from what they'd likely consider bullshit.
What I'm driving at is that you're not logical. As much as you'd like to claim that you are, if you are unwilling to accept arguments which contradict your own opinion that is inherently illogical. Some people may make far-fetched comparisons, but they are no less logical than your own. I don't seek justification for your comments, I'm just pointing out that you're no better than any other white knight on here. If you'd like, I can cite a plethora of times where I openly admit issues within CIG which is contradictory to my own position. Actually, Brenics actually almost died of a heart attack when I did agree with him on something.
I could care less if you think CIG is the devil. Just don't stand there and claim to be the only logical argument, when you're unwilling to consider any other argument than your own. Anything else is "silly".
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
What you just described is the definition of a paywall. Theres the regular RSI forum which anyone can view but need to be a backer to post in, a soft paywall. There's the forums only backers can see, a hard paywall, and then there is a subscriber only forum which is another hard paywall.
As in something you pay to gain access to.
what did I miss?