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Pay King = Game King
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?112468-Pay-King-Game-King
"CoconutMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG06WAxoR9k
This man nails it."
I am not OP. I just copy pasted from the official forums. AA fans forgive me, but this guys makes a powerful (hilarious) argument. Classic video. Feel free to refute and/or explain what's going on.
*presses post then ducks*
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
at the first fight probably he uses gear not regraded and he gets pawned..... and in other fights he uses regraded gear (wich can be done with cashop item) and he pawns
in his way he says that the game is p2w... and he is right
All-time fave : City of Heroes/Villains
Played and returning from time to time : GW2, Tera, CO
Played: Aion, Archeage, DCUO, FXIV:ARR, Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Vindictus, Wildstar
Playing atm : WoW, Hearthstone, Tera, GW2
So he wins a arena 1 vs 1 match.
What a big deal in a open world which arena matches have no impact .
Can someone also describe the winning condition of Archeage.
To my knowledge nothing of the shown action make the real Archeage winner (if such is posible for a single individuum in Archeage at all )
The max he is King of is the limited spot of an 1 vs 1 Arena lol, already in the 5 x5 Arena he could become big problems to become the King, not to mention the big open outside world lol
It's a slippery slope.
It's not technically P2W, because "nothing is sold in the Cash Shop that can't be earned through normal game play".
The items you buy in the Cash Shop just help you to get things more quickly. Now, "more quickly" is totally relative.
I can (via Cash Shop spending) get gear in a week or two which will take you 6 months to grind out. I will whoop your ass in PVP for the next 6 months, but then we'll (theoretically) have equal gear and I'll only win 50% of the time.
Hence no P2W, because eventually, you can get everything I paid for for free via game play. Unless the developer releases a new expansion after 5 months...
It's in the interest of the game developer to release a new expansion/upgrade/dlc every 5 months, because then I will most likely spend another few $100 to buy the best gear possible, while you will start a new 6-month grind. The illusion of "equal opportunity" is intact, but it remains purely theoretical.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
What Open World?
I have never seen it in ArcheAge. Are you talking about Halycena and the other 3 zones at War, always the same 4 zones? Because this game has zero Open World PvP.... it all starts from level 30 to begin with and then only in restrictive areas. The only Open world PvP i had was while fishing near the kraken... this game has zero open world pvp in a more trad. sense.
Google transalate was not able to crack the enigma. Not sure what this young padowan was talking about, having to pay for 1v1 PVP? Not that i give a f... about AA anymore, still wondering what the main gripe here really is for ArcheAge GJ.
€: okay, think i was able to decipher the video. Well.... it´s F2P for starters (even for those that paid $150), they have to make cash somehow.
evil minded people would it also put this way :
In Archeage people with jobs and a real life have a real chence to compete against the no job, no life basement dweller.
It's pay-to-(BIG)Advantage. For some people, that's pay-to-win. For others, it's not.
Regrade scrolls are a tried and true F2P strategy of hiding just how big the advantage is (and, sometimes more importantly, hiding just how EXPENSIVE the advantage is), because calculating the average advantage requires maths (that most people are too lazy to do) and it's also luck-based, which leads to people saying "Oh, well, I can still get the same things as he did if I'm just lucky, and he still needs to be lucky too even with an increased success rate"
I earn my super sword after lots of gameplay. I now have a 20% chance to upgrade it to a super-sword+5 and a 20% chance to add the "of extreme buttkicking affix to it", but if it fails, it downgrades or breaks. A super sword +5 isn't much stronger than a super sword. A super sword of extreme buttkicking isn't much stronger than a super sword either. But a super sword +5 of extreme buttkicking? That completely anhilates anyone who's only using a normal super sword.
20% chance might not be too bad for either affix. But 20% on top of 20%? You're talking a 4% chance by then and then it might break and you'll have to spend a lot of time and resources making yourself a new super sword. Or I can pay for cash shop regrade success enhancers to double it and get it to a 40% rate for both attempts. At that point, you're talking a 40% x 40% = 16% overall chance. This means that the non-paying player will have to make 25 super swords on average whereas the paying player only needs 6 on average. Cash shop regrades can be brought from other cashers but the gold price of doing that 6 times becomes exhorbitant and the casher who sold you those upgrades now has your gold that he can invest towards making his super sword +5 of extreme buttkicking TO THE MAX sword-in-a-sword. By the time you finally get lucky and make your super sword +5 of whatever, his sword has baby swords all of which mutilate you in moments if you end up in a PvP match with him (which you probably will, eventually, be it for fighting over a trade pack or fighting over a castle. Several times. Forever)
Meanwhile that casher either doesn't realize he just spent $500 on that sword because it was in gradual bits and pieces whenever he had to buy new regrades for his latest upgrade attempt after the first 11 failed, or he doesn't care. All the while the noncasher happily thinks it isn't pay-to-win because he finally got his +5 super sword even as the casher is now farther ahead of him more than ever and now owns Castle McBadass giving him taxes with which to help fund his latest "Awesome gun sword with angry baby zombie swords" project (though he'll still need to toss another $1000 there to finish it on average) while Mr.NonCash has jack squat (besides his sword)
And the company managing the game looks at their profits and gets their christmas hams.
Edit: Fixed my math a bit. See, I told you that making you have to do the math yourself is one of the ways they get you!
Your scope on Archeage seems limited as well.
Educate me then, not that i´d care... . Got 4x lvl 40 toons (US/EU), never seen open world pvp except for the "horde" to gank up on you after they zerg´d the general in Halycena (or what ever the first level 30 zone is called on Nuia)... what a great Open World action that was....
For Siege Battle it was too late, even for small arena pvp i didnt care anymore. Difference being thta i do not bitch via a video about a F2P game, it´s pretty hypocritical if you exepct a F2P to give you everything FOR FREE and not ask anythign in return from you.
Again, elaborate... besides questing with enemy faction players in the SAME 4 zones at war on Nuia and Honduras, i did not see any noteworthy pvp action... except again for the Sea Battles (the novelty will wear off pretty quickly anyway). WHERE is this Open World PvP farbege...
.... Age of Conan offered more pvp zones 6+ years ago. Open World mean FULLY Open, not partially enabled zones (same ones...) + Naval Battle.
if he at least had an argument....
but all he sais is just "this is fucking pay... trion fucking pay. fucking game"
worst trolling ever
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
For the gamer, the only way to really win is to not play.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hence AA is yet another 1 month and done game for a ton of people. Except unlike most recent games that have poor endgame content AA drives people away purely due to its business model.
People in Korea version can probably buy directly gear from cash shop, so for his limited success being the King in a 1 vs 1 Arena he has an argument. But on NA version this isn't possible.
He was the #1 ranking arena player in Korea, now he is currently sitting at #3. There are only about 2400 players left in the Arena/PVP bracket... not a whole lot of folks, although that shouldn't come to as a surprise since the game had a huge server merge earlier this year.
http://archeage.xlgames.com/ranks/rank?rankType=BATTLEFIELD&page=5&rankScopeId=9
Original post comes from ArcheAge Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/2lg6ma/this_is_the_future_of_archeages_competitive_pvp/
Eloquently put Thama, and I believe you have convinced me of the varying degrees of pay to advance. This of course is obviously one of the big reasons I stay far away from any type of PvP in an MMO. Someone will always have an advantage over you, regardless.
To me, what is the point? I am happy with the size of my balls as they are now. I don't need to pay to make them any larger anyway.
As for the video, it was a laugh too! I would love to see Angry Joe and Angry JoeSan do a video together!
$*&@! YOU Trion / XL
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
He is being overly obnoxious about it on purpose, his whole point is showing off how ArcheAge is P2W. He was the #1 ranked person in South Korea (currently sitting in at #3) out of a grand total of 2400 players in the ranking list I posted above.
Yup he really seemed to have a monkey on his back about the whole p2w thing...
of course if you can wave your credit card at something and make your problems disappear then some will do just that
Now #3? I wonder if losing to a bigger whale is what prompted him to make this video. I remember another F2P where I was #1 for 5 months thanks to a combination of playing the game like crazy (for 5 months) and around, I dunno, $1,500 spent (I was stupid back then) only to finally lose when some guy comes along who's only been playing for one month and spent $10,000+ on the game (by his own admittance)
.......people probably see me as a hater when it comes to Archeage, but after an experience like THAT, well... the same goes for this guy who made this video. Everyone now sees him as a hater despite how he was dedicated enough to be #1 in that game out of 2,400+ people. When you finally get beaten by someone who was a bigger whale than you despite how you yourself are a whale and despite how you played a lot longer, your eyes tend to open a bit.
You should check out the video when he takes on a raid and kills 4-5 people with 2 hits on each and then gets away because they cannot touch him. Just to come back and do it again.
Been watching this streamer for awhile now....he is not afraid to take on raids because of the gear he spent approx 12k on.
He is just honest.
He demonstrated that when he didn't pay, he didn't win and when he did pay, he did win.
You don't define that as Pay to win? Because that's exactly what he did......he paid.........to win.
As far as your example about grinding for 6 months. That assumes that the spender is idle for 6 months not doing anything. But that would be an incorrect statement. In fact he's going to continue to grow at a faster rate than the non- spender. So the longer 1 player grinds and the 2nd player spends, the wider the gap between them becomes and they will NEVER be equal......not EVER.
EDIT: Sorry, I reread your post.......I think you may be actually saying the same thing.
Guy anhilates everyone in arena thanks to spending 12k. Not pay to win. Arena isn't everything.
Guy kills 4-5 people at a time when vastly outnumbered. Not pay to win. The open world PvP is meaningless.
Guy kills 4-5 people in castle sieges greatly increasing the odds his guild will hold the castle and continue to get more money from taxing the lands. Not pay to win. It's just tax gold! Everyone can get gold eventually by delivering trade packs for a few decades.
Guy spent $12k. Not pay to win! You need to spend thousands before you get any noticeable advantage!
.....for some people, NOTHING will ever be pay to win. Well, maybe except
Guy buys a new sword from the cash shop. OMG PAY-TO-WIN!!!!! YOU CAN BUY EQUIPMENT FROM THE CASH SHOP!
(which is why most F2P companies are smart enough to just put re-grades in there, even though the end result of the guy destroying 4-5 people at a time is the same)
It is truly amazing how some are posting that he didn't show that the game is p2w when it comes to pvp. Its sad really, I guess they are afraid that many will catch on and leave. Leaving them with that castle and no one to tax and beat up on.
I can tell you that on Tahyang, when I switch to the east side from the west...I can already see the population difference. It wont be long before many in the west re-roll to the east.
.....by spending real money.
It could have been a coincidence
Hah, just kidding, he totally bought those wins, that he made the video just to prove that it was possible to do is something of an eye opener, but, is anyone actually surprised he was able to do what he did ?