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Pay King = Game King
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way to go...... not.
They are the same level in the video and the streamer only changed the weapons and changed the entire fight to his favor.
Try harder.
You might be saying that in a joking manner or you might be serious about that statement (or possibly both). Either way, it is quite true. And it's pretty logical. MMORPGs are played by real people, so their actions will generally have similarities to what those real people do in real life, especially if the MMO offers more freedom. MMOs on rails won't be as real-life-ish because the rails dictate how they turn out, but in MMOs where players determine things (in this case, the open-competitive scene), it's quite logical it would emulate real life in a matter of ways.
And real life, if there are no decent laws in place to curb it (like AA's case), can get really really vicious.
I was mostly serious.
I guess that's why I have been interested in mmorpgs, really. It is kind of like a laboratory of human psychology within each game's given parameters of freedom.
Thanks for your contributions to this thread, Tiamat. They have been interesting and well written.
EDIT: In RL, the whales tend to make the laws, so it's unlikely to be curbed until the system eventually collapses.
I always get a kick out of some of the responses I see to Whale-ism. Things like. "Get organized" "join a guild" "Don't solo" or my personal favorite "I'll win with better skill"
As if Players who spend lots of money in the shop are a bunch of unorganized guildless soloers with no skill or as if somehow the cash shop excludes these players from being able to use any of the above tactics themselves.
Reminds me of that song.
Anything you can do I can do better.
ArcheAge isn't a mobile game but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4VRbsjZrQ
It is the way things are going... (or have been for the past 5 or so years)
Yay.
No. Can't assume that based on watching this video.
The demonstration was in and about the 1 vs 1 Arena, which is a very small part of the Archeage world.
NA version doesn't have gear on the shop and also doesnt have a PvP 1 vs 1 ladder.
But what about answering my question : Can someone describe me the "winning condition" of Archeage ?
How can a individual win and beat Archeage ?
That was hilarious "This is AA, this is AA ... he can't kill me why? Because he's not pay!"
Love how he loses and then waves his credit card like a magic wand and totally destroys the guy in the next round. It is exactly why you can't take pvp in games like this seriously.
I been playing AA very hardcore its got some very good positives and negatives.
The fact is the pvp is not really skill based its class / gear based and your wallet size does affect the gear you can have and as shown in the video we are talking about a huge difference in 1 regrade type to another.
I play on enla and I havent really encountered any super cashers I couldnt stand a chance vs in 1v1 or group fights but there def is the room for cash to break a player.
Its a pretty solid game but lacks end game unless you love to run packs, beyond grinding your weps and sets from gha the reasons to play are minimum.
Im currently keeping sub and will pay my taxes for land while I play WoW xpac I think the game could have a future if the updates they bringing are good but I do wish it was p2p not f2p.
you cant find open PvP in the +30 zones. than you must be really bad lol.
And open world means non.instanced-one world. which AA is, unlike many other western MMORPGs in the past years.
Open World doesnt mean Open Pvp
The slope isn't slippery at all. if you can gear up or stat up faster buying something from a cash shop that can then be used directly or indirectly in anyway shape or form to achieve this goal is P2W. Saying you can "eventually" get the items in game doesn't change this simple fact. Winning "sooner" by paying rather than later is the core principal behind P2W.
I don't think it can be made in clearly than that.
I like the race car analogy. I have a car that can and will go around the track and cross the finish line. If that is all my goal is, then I win.
If there are other cars, and they can pass me and cross the finish line first, then in a competitive sense, they win.
If they can pay money to get a faster car, and beat me around the track, it is pay-2-win.
Unless I define "winning" as just the ability to go around the track.
You see this in single-player games a lot. It is fun to create a character that isn't max'd out, that is less than optimal, just to have the fun of running him around the game. For example, in Elder Scrolls single player, you don't have to balance magic vs melee builds. Who cares if one build is more powerful than the other? There is just you and your car going around the track. Passing the finish line is winning.
But you can't take that approach in an MMO, with many players. Especially with competitive PvP. Now people want these different builds to be balanced. Why should melee builds do less damage than magic?
People in MMO's want all cars to be the same, and the driver's skill is what wins the race. But if someone can just buy a faster car, then it is pay-2-win.
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
Man I was really with you up until that last paragraph. MMORPG's are about builds and strategy, not skill. Now if you're talking FPS, then yes we want all cars to be the same, no P2W, because FPS is almost entirely skill based (or should be, that's when weapon unlocks, attachments, and XP in an FPS become a serious problem).
If other people can gain an advantage over me in a video game because of real life money-- that's P2W no matter at what point in the game the advantage happens.
Some people categorize building your character and strategizing well as "skill", too. Just brain skill instead of twitch/reflex skill.
What happens when the no life basement dweller has money to spend? then your really screwed !
Many of the whales I knew from various games had a life with a ridiculously sweet paying job (which is where they got their money) AND a ridiculous amount of time to devote to the game. Some people are just THAT successful.
Needless to say, whether they have a life or not, as long as they have tons of money AND tons of play-time, most people won't be able to compete with them in most F2P games, AA included.
Exactly. To take the car analogy one step further, MMO players want all drivers to start out with the same car part credits, or skill points. Building the best car out of the choices of engine size, chassis, etc, is a skill; and building the best car on a limited budget (same for everybody) is the first skill.
I get expanded budget from winning races, and I get to keep building a better car to win even more races. Having the fastest car is a sign that you're a good driver and can win races.
Now along comes someone who just buys a better car than you could get even after winning a lot of races. And once they join, you won't win many more races.
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
Theres a very important part of your car analogy that everyone here is missing. In ArcheAge, no one is buying a faster car. The most you can buy is better starting position. But at the end of the race, all the cars are still the same, and even the guy who started in last place has the same chance of winning.
People need to stop jumping on "bandwagon" hate trains, and actually play the game for themselves. Anyone who calls AA Pay 2 Win, hasnt actually played the game. Now if they ever put Mythic gear on the cash shop, then you have an argument. Nice try though. Keep it up and you might get one person to believe you.
This would be true in a game where you could quickly reach "best in slot" gear or max out your abilities.
But, in Archeage, the grind to the best gear is so slow that it hasn't been reached in 2 years.
What this means is that the person who has spent twice the resources is 2x ahead of you in gear progression, always. It's only if everyone can reach the end that they're just "faster". In this game they will always be unconditionally "better".
You can like the game or dislike it, but this is basic logic, and it is no more controversial than 1+1 = 2.
How so? You're aware the car in this case is supposed to be "Gear", right? The race itself is "the quest to get better gear", usually.
So yes, buying better gear buys you a better spot in that race ("quest to get better gear"). However, it buys you a faster car as well (because the car is "gear").
The race analogy isn't really perfect because in the real world, your ability to race doesn't improve as you get farther ahead in the race (for the most part. Obviously using your car to block the other guy's car yada yada yada exists but it's not the same thing exactly). In an MMO Gear Race, your "car" is constantly improving as you're going along the race.
Which of course means the guy who started in last place (crappy gear) is going to have a hell of a time dealing with all the guys ahead of him (better gear)
Regrade scrolls are a tried and true F2P strategy of hiding just how big the advantage is (and, sometimes more importantly, hiding just how EXPENSIVE the advantage is), because calculating the average advantage requires maths (that most people are too lazy to do) and it's also luck-based, which leads to people saying "Oh, well, I can still get the same things as he did if I'm just lucky, and he still needs to be lucky too even with an increased success rate"
I earn my super sword after lots of gameplay. I now have a 20% chance to upgrade it to a super-sword+5 and a 20% chance to add the "of extreme buttkicking affix to it", but if it fails, it downgrades or breaks. A super sword +5 isn't much stronger than a super sword. A super sword of extreme buttkicking isn't much stronger than a super sword either. But a super sword +5 of extreme buttkicking? That completely anhilates anyone who's only using a normal super sword.
20% chance might not be too bad for either affix. But 20% on top of 20%? You're talking a 4% chance by then and then it might break and you'll have to spend a lot of time and resources making yourself a new super sword. Or I can pay for cash shop regrade success enhancers to double it and get it to a 40% rate for both attempts. At that point, you're talking a 40% x 40% = 16% overall chance. This means that the non-paying player will have to make 25 super swords on average whereas the paying player only needs 6 on average. Cash shop regrades can be brought from other cashers but the gold price of doing that 6 times becomes exhorbitant and the casher who sold you those upgrades now has your gold that he can invest towards making his super sword +5 of extreme buttkicking TO THE MAX sword-in-a-sword. By the time you finally get lucky and make your super sword +5 of whatever, his sword has baby swords all of which mutilate you in moments if you end up in a PvP match with him (which you probably will, eventually, be it for fighting over a trade pack or fighting over a castle. Several times. Forever)
Meanwhile that casher either doesn't realize he just spent $500 on that sword because it was in gradual bits and pieces whenever he had to buy new regrades for his latest upgrade attempt after the first 11 failed, or he doesn't care. All the while the noncasher happily thinks it isn't pay-to-win because he finally got his +5 super sword even as the casher is now farther ahead of him more than ever and now owns Castle McBadass giving him taxes with which to help fund his latest "Awesome gun sword with angry baby zombie swords" project (though he'll still need to toss another $1000 there to finish it on average) while Mr.NonCash has jack squat (besides his sword)
And the company managing the game looks at their profits and gets their christmas hams.
Edit: Fixed my math a bit. See, I told you that making you have to do the math yourself is one of the ways they get you!
Trying to explain it to people that don't seem to get it LOL.
I got it a long time ago. Some just don't see the real picture here and won't until they finally give in or give up.
While they argue I'll get my +5 sword and better stuff coming, these guys already will have it before the end of a week after the next badass gear of expansion x to the nth gets out while the guys arguing still struggle to take them down with toothpicks and pebbles.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I like to refer to it as "Pay to Get Ripped Off" more than P2W.
The fact is the items cost more real money to get than an average $15 a month subscription would get you and all items like this ONLY come from the cash shop, there is no in game drops for it. So, even if it is available in the AH too it has to come from real money..... someone is paying real money for the item to be in the game and if you average the cost of most "quality of life" items people are paying more real money than an average subscription for similar "quality of life" items and features.
F2P games are the equivalent of virtual rent-a-centers. Convenient, but someone pays more than the item is worth
Here is a great video from South Park that explains the F2P marketing to a tee:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/709504
yeah cause Southpark is odviously inline with the P2P market empire.
The South Park Episode was basically this
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An
being presented by South Park characters.
Yeah people paying $12000 to get advantage in Wow. Level boost is p2w, with new 6.0.2 patches and nerfed exp + added bonus dungeon exp you'll level in 24h to max level. Fuck Blizzard also for introducing cash 8 cash shop mounts over 5 years, shits not even flying faster or have anything special, those 400 ingame arent enough. Fuck them for also for all charities they done with cash shop sales, because obiviously Trion and XL already gaveaway billions.
This episode is very accurate because the whole f2p/p2w concept is based on behavioral glitches and impulse. For me f2p/p2w is pure garbage and the worst thing happened to the MMO genre.