This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
Given that you're still beating this dead horse after all the multiple pages of replies in this topic, you're clearly out of touch with the feelings of the mainstream here. At this point, 78% of respondents feel that AA is "P2W".
You may be trying to tell them that their definition of "win" is not correct, but they're laughing at you...
The experience of playing a game belongs in the emotional realm, not the logical realm. If playing a game elicits certain emotional responses, no amount of logical argument will change that. Sooner or later, the person's "gut feel" will override whatever logical justifications their brain is trying to promote.
This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
P2W is just a general term which also includes a game where you can use cash to buy in game money and items. Ironically AA also has free to exploit feature which gives you the same advantages without spending a dime in cash shop.
This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
The winning condition of Archeage varies from person to person, just like the definition of Pay-to-win varies from person to person.
Logically speaking, then, a person who believes AA is pay-to-win has their definition of pay-to-win equate paying with reaching their definition of winning.
And, judging by the poll, lots of people feel that way. Given that these same people feel that many other MMOs are either not pay-to-win or not AS pay-to-win, clearly for those people, Archeage is doing something that's bad in comparison to those other MMOs for this particularly large portion of the playerbase.
This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
The winning condition of Archeage varies from person to person, just like the definition of Pay-to-win varies from person to person.
Logically speaking, then, a person who believes AA is pay-to-win has their definition of pay-to-win equate paying with reaching their definition of winning.
And, judging by the poll, lots of people feel that way. Given that these same people feel that many other MMOs are either not pay-to-win or not AS pay-to-win, clearly for those people, Archeage is doing something that's bad in comparison to those other MMOs for this particularly large portion of the playerbase.
So... there you go.
yea, i dont know what "win" means but i have dubious feelings in my belly this is it , so lets us the word often maybe it helps. Pay to win, Pay to win, Pay to win, pay to win, pay to win, PAy wto win, pay to Win, win, win, win, win, win....
There is no question of the definition of "Pay to Win." The idea of there being "different meanings to different people" is BSpropaganda from the MMORPG Industry Corporations that idiots among the player-base have actually bought.
Pay to WIn (definition) :
The manner of gaining buying power and/or power gap advantages thereby
real money. The "win" aspect of this term is in reference to "the game."
That being said further gives us :
This always applies to PVP and will apply to PVE anytime
performances are displayed publicly.
So stop your BS.
I challenge you to post a source for this definition.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
There is no question of the definition of "Pay to Win." The idea of there being "different meanings to different people" is BSpropaganda from the MMORPG Industry Corporations that idiots among the player-base have actually bought.
Pay to WIn (definition) :
The manner of gaining buying power and/or power gap advantages thereby
real money. The "win" aspect of this term is in reference to "the game."
That being said further gives us :
This always applies to PVP and will apply to PVE anytime
performances are displayed publicly.
So stop your BS.
Where as Unrestricted Pay to Win is bad for everyone, "Pay to Win" itself should not be completely eliminated either. Consider this, there will always be those players with the real life resource of "time," thus allowing always for one advantaged group that can essentially "Grind to Win." Allowing "Pay to Win" to some degree creates another group of advantaged players. There are 3 groups specifically that should be balanced, those with "money" with "time" and with "skill." The solution is simple, create methods in order to REDUCE Pay to Win... Such as I have proposed in THIS THREAD.
I challenge you to post a source for this definition.
There is no question of the definition of "Pay to Win." The idea of there being "different meanings to different people" is BSpropaganda from the MMORPG Industry Corporations that idiots among the player-base have actually bought.
Pay to WIn (definition) :
The manner of gaining buying power and/or power gap advantages thereby
real money. The "win" aspect of this term is in reference to "the game."
That being said further gives us :
This always applies to PVP and will apply to PVE anytime
performances are displayed publicly.
So stop your BS.
Lol, a carefully-crafted piece of legalese worthy of featuring in the small print of any 1000-page contract !
So, "legally", any game where you can achieve all significant items via so-called "normal game play" is not P2W. Regardless of how many 100's of hours of said game play may be required.
And making everything dependant on RNG rolls obfuscates matters even further, because then there is no way to quantify how many hours of "normal game play" are actually required.
If the game has no clearly defined and described "win" condition, then the meaning of "win" in that game game becomes whatever the player decides it is. MMORPG's are open ended games, they never have clearly defined win conditions, because they cannot. One player may define "win" as owning a castle, another as having the best possible gear, another as being top of the arena leaderboard, etc.
TLDR: Players tend to define "win" as reaching their personal goal within a set timeframe. If reaching that goal can be expedited or made instant by paying a sum of money, the game becomes P2W in that player's eyes.
There is no question of the definition of "Pay to Win." The idea of there being "different meanings to different people" is BSpropaganda from the MMORPG Industry Corporations that idiots among the player-base have actually bought.
Pay to WIn (definition) :
The manner of gaining buying power and/or power gap advantages thereby
real money. The "win" aspect of this term is in reference to "the game."
That being said further gives us :
This always applies to PVP and will apply to PVE anytime
performances are displayed publicly.
So stop your BS.
Where as Unrestricted Pay to Win is bad for everyone, "Pay to Win" itself should not be completely eliminated either. Consider this, there will always be those players with the real life resource of "time," thus allowing always for one advantaged group that can essentially "Grind to Win." Allowing "Pay to Win" to some degree creates another group of advantaged players. There are 3 groups specifically that should be balanced, those with "money" with "time" and with "skill." The solution is simple, create methods in order to REDUCE Pay to Win... Such as I have proposed in THIS THREAD.
I challenge you to post a source for this definition.
My Brain.
Now I challenge you to THINK.
The condescension is real in this one..
Only for those that have not the facilities of thinking.
If I didn't have that affinity, I wouldn't have recognized the condescension.
It is amusing that you would defend "Pay to Win". No intelligent normal financially situated player would do so. So you are either benefiting from the company end, from being a pay to win player yourself, or you really know not what you speak of.
Sadly, your 'observations' are quite wrong.
I don't defend P2W, just because we differ on the belief that AA is or is not. As I've said in another thread, I play casually. I have no need to 'pro'. I have yet to spend a dime, I enjoy because I have friends playing.
Basically, I just don't care about the whole P2W argument, and I don't attempt in belittling others for wishing to play any game out there.
But you obviously are on the MMORPG Industry Developers or Corporate end. Hence the "legality" speech in your post, as well as the attempt of cutting my post short. This is further provided by the fact that I post one simple little post and it has been aggressively attacked and cut off already by so many corporate members, pay to win players, or complete idiots.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all a nasty conspiracy and I'm just a corporate shill, right ?
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, other than the fact that my opinion differs from yours, and therefore you needed to find an angle to discredited me.
The fact that your "one little post" generated so much heat is not surprising. That's normally what happens when people post something provocative or inflammatory, regardless of how brief.
Originally posted by maybebaked Originally posted by jesteralwaysOf course majority of mmorpg.com posters will think AA is pay2win. even if AA only had cosmetic items in cash shop majority would still vote pay2win. if they did not have any cash shop only optional sub with f2p option they would still vote pay2win. as long as there is a money factor in f2p games majority of mmo forums goer call it pay2win. i have played shit load of pay2win games and by no way AA is a pay2win game. some can spend 100$ a month and be unlucky to fail all of his crafting attempt and get shit gears(actually someone has and now he qq in swtor general chat) and someone can be lucky enough to get rare quality items on their 1st crafting try without even spending a dime. you wanna call it pay2win? sure go ahead, majority of mmo forum goers come from western culture where it is a firm belief that "ignorance is a bliss", it is your culture, i will not be judgemental.peace.
Completely wrong. If the cash shop was only cosmetic, we wouldn't vote p2w. When the best gear is crafting and spending real money garners you a major advantage than those who don't, the game is most definitely p2w. Some may hop on the hater or fanboy bandwagon, but I think a lot of people can make an intelligent observation about the monetization of this game.
Bottom line, the cash shop has had a detrimental affect on the economy, land ownership, PvP and pretty much every other aspect on this game. For years this will be used as an example of a company's greed overpowering the care for maintaining the playerbase.
I currently play AA and the game is def pay to win. I can still have fun with the game as a patron player, but I have no plan on going head to head vs the high end ptw players. The labor portion of the game is what drives me nuts. Paying a sub and not being able to play due to "labor" is pure cash grab.
The game is fun though and the best sand box release in ages. Too bad it has had elements added for pure cash grab.
It is amusing that you would defend "Pay to Win". No intelligent normal financially situated player would do so. So you are either benefiting from the company end, from being a pay to win player yourself, or you really know not what you speak of.
Sadly, your 'observations' are quite wrong.
I don't defend P2W, just because we differ on the belief that AA is or is not. As I've said in another thread, I play casually. I have no need to 'pro'. I have yet to spend a dime, I enjoy because I have friends playing.
Basically, I just don't care about the whole P2W argument, and I don't attempt in belittling others for wishing to play any game out there.
You have so little care to the pay to win argument, that here you still are.
Yes, I am.
I'm a member here and the poll asked a question which I answered. Being a member here, it is my privilege to do so.
Thank you though for trying to restrict what should or shouldn't be said on forums.
You are against P2W, good for you. Keep up the good fight.
Comments
This topic goes on and on and on and still keeps the main question i put from the beginning unaswered.
Archeage is is "Pay to Win" exactly ...WHAT ?
what is the winning condition of Archeage ?
1 x 1 arena ? who gives a damn about such in a MMO.
The more people buy stuff of the shop the bigger the inflation of the items in AH the more free to play people buy same stuff with less gold of the AH.
For any real cash spend in the cash shop a happy free of cash person on AH geting the same.
Given that you're still beating this dead horse after all the multiple pages of replies in this topic, you're clearly out of touch with the feelings of the mainstream here. At this point, 78% of respondents feel that AA is "P2W".
You may be trying to tell them that their definition of "win" is not correct, but they're laughing at you...
The experience of playing a game belongs in the emotional realm, not the logical realm. If playing a game elicits certain emotional responses, no amount of logical argument will change that. Sooner or later, the person's "gut feel" will override whatever logical justifications their brain is trying to promote.
P2W is just a general term which also includes a game where you can use cash to buy in game money and items. Ironically AA also has free to exploit feature which gives you the same advantages without spending a dime in cash shop.
The winning condition of Archeage varies from person to person, just like the definition of Pay-to-win varies from person to person.
Logically speaking, then, a person who believes AA is pay-to-win has their definition of pay-to-win equate paying with reaching their definition of winning.
And, judging by the poll, lots of people feel that way. Given that these same people feel that many other MMOs are either not pay-to-win or not AS pay-to-win, clearly for those people, Archeage is doing something that's bad in comparison to those other MMOs for this particularly large portion of the playerbase.
So... there you go.
yea, i dont know what "win" means but i have dubious feelings in my belly this is it , so lets us the word often maybe it helps. Pay to win, Pay to win, Pay to win, pay to win, pay to win, PAy wto win, pay to Win, win, win, win, win, win....
I challenge you to post a source for this definition.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The condescension is real in this one..
Lol, a carefully-crafted piece of legalese worthy of featuring in the small print of any 1000-page contract !
So, "legally", any game where you can achieve all significant items via so-called "normal game play" is not P2W. Regardless of how many 100's of hours of said game play may be required.
And making everything dependant on RNG rolls obfuscates matters even further, because then there is no way to quantify how many hours of "normal game play" are actually required.
If the game has no clearly defined and described "win" condition, then the meaning of "win" in that game game becomes whatever the player decides it is. MMORPG's are open ended games, they never have clearly defined win conditions, because they cannot. One player may define "win" as owning a castle, another as having the best possible gear, another as being top of the arena leaderboard, etc.
TLDR: Players tend to define "win" as reaching their personal goal within a set timeframe. If reaching that goal can be expedited or made instant by paying a sum of money, the game becomes P2W in that player's eyes.
If I didn't have that affinity, I wouldn't have recognized the condescension.
Sadly, your 'observations' are quite wrong.
I don't defend P2W, just because we differ on the belief that AA is or is not. As I've said in another thread, I play casually. I have no need to 'pro'. I have yet to spend a dime, I enjoy because I have friends playing.
Basically, I just don't care about the whole P2W argument, and I don't attempt in belittling others for wishing to play any game out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all a nasty conspiracy and I'm just a corporate shill, right ?
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, other than the fact that my opinion differs from yours, and therefore you needed to find an angle to discredited me.
The fact that your "one little post" generated so much heat is not surprising. That's normally what happens when people post something provocative or inflammatory, regardless of how brief.
Bottom line, the cash shop has had a detrimental affect on the economy, land ownership, PvP and pretty much every other aspect on this game. For years this will be used as an example of a company's greed overpowering the care for maintaining the playerbase.
I currently play AA and the game is def pay to win. I can still have fun with the game as a patron player, but I have no plan on going head to head vs the high end ptw players. The labor portion of the game is what drives me nuts. Paying a sub and not being able to play due to "labor" is pure cash grab.
The game is fun though and the best sand box release in ages. Too bad it has had elements added for pure cash grab.
Hahahaha !
You're new to all this, aren't you ?
"TRUE" is simply what the majority decides it is. Ask any jury.
Yes, I am.
I'm a member here and the poll asked a question which I answered. Being a member here, it is my privilege to do so.
Thank you though for trying to restrict what should or shouldn't be said on forums.
You are against P2W, good for you. Keep up the good fight.
I'm against random people on the internet clumsily making up fake definitions of hotly discussed terms and trying to pass them off as Merriam-Webster.
Where THAT Pay2Win Definition Came From:
http://youtu.be/9ROOi5xagxg
¯\_(ツ)_/¯