I've played both to max so in short my answer is this FFXIV is better community and pve wise then eso. my two cents! also some main story quests have voice acting so people are wrong in that regard!
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
They could be seeking a skyshard, or a lore book to level mages guild. Most quests you may pick up in an OW dungeon in ESO don't involve killing the boss within, so they could be questing.
Killing the boss unlocks an achievement and you'll get some loot. It's not the main reason to go in them. It's to explore.
EDIT: Also at the moment if your in a dwemer dungeon they could be looking for chests to pick for the racial motifs for crafting.
Loads of reason to go in ESO dungeons besides killing.
I was recently subbed to both as they both provided different fixes.
FF14
This would be the safe choice. It is your run-of-the-mill MMO but with Final Fantasy flavor all over the place. The game is exceptionally polished and has a solid development team behind it. It is doing very well and has a very healthy future ahead of it. The game is gorgeous and has an expansion pack in the oven. A constantly growing number of pets and mounts to acquire. The game also features housing now - though it doesn't compare to WildStar or even Rift's housing systems.
Its downsides would be the lack of true character development. While you can level each class/job on a single character, each job/class has a very streamlined item progression and a preferred set of stats. The end-game for most players will revolve around dungeon instances as open world content is severely lacking. Voice acting is very poorly done. Some quests are voice acted, some aren't. Some scenes/cinematic are PARTIALLY voice acted which I found very annoying.
Elder Scrolls Online
Where FF14 embraces the modern MMO formula, this starts to turn it on its head a bit. I found the main scenario to be more engaging and better paced. If you just follow the main story quest and the main quest of each zone, you will miss out on quite of bit of content - as the game does encourage you to explore and wander. The map updates as you explore and makes it easy to note areas you haven't "completed".
Of the two, I think ESO has the best character building. Each of the 4 classes can serve a variety of roles (tank, dps, healer, etc...) and there is an emphasis on choice. You aren't locked into any one role and can change out abilities/gear as you need. Each class can use any weapon and any armor. Your stat choices will be very impactful and relevant. End-game itemization is daunting in terms of all the potential choices between crafted, raid, etc...
There is a bit more emphasis on the open world as well. While instanced dungeons are there, the more rewarding content is found in the open-world. The tiny dungeons - called delves - do have a copy/paste feel to them at times - but you go there for the challenge, not the scenery. The public dungeons are interesting but used mostly for quests and certain achievements. The instanced dungeons can be exceptionally fun and challenging in a visceral sort of way.
The downsides to ESO is that it stumbled greatly at launch. While the game is certainly fun and engaging, it is hard to tell what its future holds. It has had solid, regular development efforts since launch however. The end-game is currently in-flux as they are currently working on a set of updates that will completely altar end-game advancement.
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
Not always, which may sound surprising.
Some players just go in to get the Skyshard - a click on item that gives you a skill point to spend. Getting to these means you usually have to go through a few corridors/tunnels, but not always to the boss.
ESO's open dungeons are ok for picking up some levelling loot, but little more than that.
As one of the first replies said, ESO better for pvp bias. FFXIV gets the pve vote.
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
Not always, which may sound surprising.
Some players just go in to get the Skyshard - a click on item that gives you a skill point to spend. Getting to these means you usually have to go through a few corridors/tunnels, but not always to the boss.
ESO's open dungeons are ok for picking up some levelling loot, but little more than that.
As one of the first replies said, ESO better for pvp bias. FFXIV gets the pve vote.
It depends honestly. These 'caves' are getting a makeover in each patch. So they are not only becoming less copy/pasted but they're getting larger, more challenging and re-itemized.
If you like instanced pve - go with FF14. However, if you are looking for a game with a bit more emphasis on exploration and open-world challenges, ESO may be the route to go.
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
They could be seeking a skyshard, or a lore book to level mages guild. Most quests you may pick up in an OW dungeon in ESO don't involve killing the boss within, so they could be questing.
Killing the boss unlocks an achievement and you'll get some loot. It's not the main reason to go in them. It's to explore.
EDIT: Also at the moment if your in a dwemer dungeon they could be looking for chests to pick for the racial motifs for crafting.
Loads of reason to go in ESO dungeons besides killing.
So you're saying the boss rewards are locked behind quests, are not locked behind quests, or are locked behind quests but the game sometimes makes you go in the dungeon without the boss quest in your log?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I just logged out after wiping 8 times to a boss in FFXIV ARR.
Let me give you an answer based on why I think FFXIV ARR has a superior community.
I was doing my roulette to get my tomes poetics for my gear and I needed just like 15 more for this week so I queued for a hard mode since I did not need so much. The whole group was new. I was the only one who knew the dungeon. One of them had watched a youtube vid she said. The pugilist.
The last boss in Brayflox Longstop hard mode is a hard on first timers. He drops a series of bombs three times which you have to knock off very quick to clear an area to stand to protect yourself from the blast. I was the healer. I explained it to them they wiped like mad may be 3 times before even managing to pass to the second set of bombs. Plus the boss is a tank that does mad dashes that can take a chunk of life off if he hits you while you are trying to dps these bombs. All these mechanics and he drops a big bomb which you have to dps quick (usually they use the limit break on it) or it will kill us again at the 3rd phase. In the 3rd phase he also does random dashes that can take a dps down to like 10 % and he has no pattern at that time unlike earlier where his dashes were around the outer rim.
I rezzed ,benediction quick heals using my skills that allow me to cast faster heal for more and so on but we were still dying. I cannot really dps fast cos my instant has a coodown and my area aoe I can only use once cos its a lot of mana and its radius after the first time is not enough. Since they were taking damage a lot I had to save for a lot heals too so I limited myself to one aoe since the adds always target me I had to heal myself too.
I could have walked out but I did not because they were trying and talking ,cheering each other on not rude,angry or upset. The tank's gear was red after the 7th wipe he changed out to other gear from his armoury and we finally downed him on the 9th try. Everyone was so pleased and I got all the commendations but that is not the important part to me it was the feeling I got when we finally downed it and the feeling of camaraderie was so warm and the feeling you get from helping others enjoy a game. Community is what you give and get . We all have to learn the mechanics and new people will make mistakes but I have been helped when I was new and I repaid that kindness shown to me and that is how you build a community and make a game enjoyable for others. I am sure this run on this dungeon will stay in their minds more than any easy runs they will have later.
The community in FFXIV is excellent . This is the number one reason you should play it.
So you're saying the boss rewards are locked behind quests, are not locked behind quests, or are locked behind quests but the game sometimes makes you go in the dungeon without the boss quest in your log?
Boss is not locked behind quests. You can just go in and kill the boss if you want and get the loot.
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
They could be seeking a skyshard, or a lore book to level mages guild. Most quests you may pick up in an OW dungeon in ESO don't involve killing the boss within, so they could be questing.
Killing the boss unlocks an achievement and you'll get some loot. It's not the main reason to go in them. It's to explore.
EDIT: Also at the moment if your in a dwemer dungeon they could be looking for chests to pick for the racial motifs for crafting.
Loads of reason to go in ESO dungeons besides killing.
So you're saying the boss rewards are locked behind quests, are not locked behind quests, or are locked behind quests but the game sometimes makes you go in the dungeon without the boss quest in your log?
There are 3 reasons to go into one of ESO's open-world "caves" or "delves" - none of which require a quest.
1. A skyshard - collecting a set of 3 of these will reward you with a skill point. Some delves have a skyshard
2. Achievement - there is a boss in each "cave" that is used to track whether or not you have been there. Kill the boss and get the credit.
3. Loot/Challenge - the madeover "caves" are more challenging and feature better loot. Previously, only the boss had the potential to drop the great stuff.
So you're saying the boss rewards are locked behind quests, are not locked behind quests, or are locked behind quests but the game sometimes makes you go in the dungeon without the boss quest in your log?
Boss is not locked behind quests. You can just go in and kill the boss if you want and get the loot.
In that case I don't really see why those helpers couldn't help for the sake of the rewards as well, instead of out of their altruistic nature. Like with Hunts and FATEs in FFXIV.
Personally I think it always comes back to incentives which encourage behavior that can be seen as helping someone. Whether it is secondary or primary objective depends on the individual.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There are 3 reasons to go into one of ESO's open-world "caves" or "delves" - none of which require a quest.
1. A skyshard - collecting a set of 3 of these will reward you with a skill point. Some delves have a skyshard
2. Achievement - there is a boss in each "cave" that is used to track whether or not you have been there. Kill the boss and get the credit.
3. Loot/Challenge - the madeover "caves" are more challenging and feature better loot. Previously, only the boss had the potential to drop the great stuff.
There's also the public group ow dungeon ("cave", "delve") that consists of 5/6 mini bosses and a main boss that has to be triggered (mainly by killing all of one type of enemy) to unlock a skill point. Again not locked behind a quest but you will find 1 or 2 quests within it.
It all depends on what you would rather play . Everyone is giving you opinions and thats all they are , not facts.
I played ESO for 3 months and got 2 characters to max level and did every dungeon they had + pvp . It was ok , but ill never play it again because it felt like a chore.
FFXIV i have been playing for .....i dunno 2 years off and on ? have 1 character and it has 5 classes maxed out (level and best gear available atm ) . i still play FFXIV because there's simply more to do . I havent even started the crafting classes yet either.
I play ESO and I've never tried FFXIV, but I don't think really helps answer any questions.
There were a couple of good posts above that give the strong and weak points of both games. It seems that if you want to say something in favor of ESO, you should add some reasons why so people can understand why you think ESO is better.
FF is much stronger in the dungeon/raid front, that's not really a focus in ESO at the moment.
FF has good crafting, i think they are both equal good in different ways.
ESO Questing is awesome. Theres tons of it, you are not pushed to rush through, no hubs, well written and fully voiced without the childish humour often seen, best in genre imo.
ESO has a gorgeous and massive open virtual world, FF14 has lots of maps with corridors etc.
ESO Skill sets and champion system offers a lot of long term gameplay that doesn't involve keeping up in the gear race. Also offers horizontal progression with new guilds/skills in the future e.g thieves incomming etc.
ESO PVP zone is massive and is starting to shape up well.
ESO has a great justice system incomming that is going to offer something new to MMO's
ESO is aimed more at adults (obviously a total preference thing)
ESO is much more RP friendly, see skills, new provisioning system, lore.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
ESO Questing is awesome. Theres tons of it, you are not pushed to rush through, no hubs, well written and fully voiced without the childish humour often seen, best in genre imo.
ESO is aimed more at adults (obviously a total preference thing)
ESO is much more RP friendly, see skills, new provisioning system, lore.
I can't say I agree with these three. Aside from being fully voiced, that is a clear perk over FFXIV (though it slows down the development of new content, so it's a double-bladed sword and which is why FFXIV isn't doing it).
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
In terms of PVE gameplay, FFXIV;ARR is a far superior game, its far more polished, the combat mechanics are well developed and character development is fairly complex. In terms of Final Fantasy in general, FFXIV;ARR well represents the Final Fantasy genre, so much so that imo fans of FF and and do find a home in this game, its also one of the friendliest communities i've encountered, perhaps because its a mostly 'cooperative' gameplay MMO rather than 'competitive', new players tend to be supported rather than ridiculed, which can often happen in the more PVP orientated games.
In MMO's i tend to have certain preferences when it comes to playing them, i particularly enjoy Healing classes, in FFXIV;ARR for instance i have a White Mage, i also have an Archer that i am working up to be a Bard, and its that kind of gameplay that ESO doesn't really do well at, if anything the Magic system in ESO is about as dire as it can get, it really handles magic very badly, even compared to TES games like Oblivion and Skyrim, ESO just does not do magic well, nor healing generally for that matter, in the two weeks or so that i played ESO, i found that one of the most frustratingly perverse parts of the game, the character classes and the development within them, is weak, extremely so, which as a fan of TES games in general since Daggerfall, it really didn't give me the feeling of playing a TES game that FFXIV;ARR does of playing a FF game, not that the genres are in any way similar, but in that they stand apart, very much apart.
In the end it boils down to whether you prefer cooperative or competitive game play, FFXIV;ARR is a much superior PVE experience, particularly when it comes to group play, and ESO is a more PVP orientated experience, and the PVE experience very much lacking, particularly for groups, as the game still appears to suffer from instancing issues when it comes to grouping.
Thanks for replies. I think ill go with ESO. ESO I quit due to real life timiing, not so much the game. The one thing that would have push me away is soloing quest after quest to get vr10. As for FF14 ARR I quit due to the gated content, forced story with very little VO, and the token grind @ lvl 50. I love the Final Fantasy Universe, even more so than Elders scrolls, but they are both great. I think I am more in the camp of wishing FF14 was like 11 with updated graphics, it offered Unique experience that I reckon we will never see again. CoH and FF11 was my definition of a community, not just outside of the game, but inside I had made friends while playing. Now its get in a fraternity (guild) or be lonely.
playing: Dragon Age Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect Want to try: Fallen Earth
ESO heavily depends on your hardware. If your system is compatible with the game you won't have a problem. If not you may not be able to even log into the game. Did they fix the phasing problem?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by Octagon7711 ESO heavily depends on your hardware. If your system is compatible with the game you won't have a problem. If not you may not be able to even log into the game. Did they fix the phasing problem?
mmorpg.com is the only place you will find someone say something about phasing now a days. I think that was 1-2 month after launch issue.
IMO, of course. Played both, FFXIV grabbed me more and was definitely more polished. I'd even say more fun too. That said, ESP had some fun PvP, but that's about it.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 ESO heavily depends on your hardware. If your system is compatible with the game you won't have a problem. If not you may not be able to even log into the game. Did they fix the phasing problem?
mmorpg.com is the only place you will find someone say something about phasing now a days. I think that was 1-2 month after launch issue.
Considering most people quit after 1-2 months it's not that surprising.
ESO Questing is awesome. Theres tons of it, you are not pushed to rush through, no hubs, well written and fully voiced without the childish humour often seen, best in genre imo.
ESO is aimed more at adults (obviously a total preference thing)
ESO is much more RP friendly, see skills, new provisioning system, lore.
I can't say I agree with these three. Aside from being fully voiced, that is a clear perk over FFXIV (though it slows down the development of new content, so it's a double-bladed sword and which is why FFXIV isn't doing it).
I would agree that voice acting is usually a huge cost with little benefit, but they done it very well and it is particularly relevant to elder scrolls games, it was the difference between dull quests and really enjoyable quests and fortunately they are continuing to pump out content at a huge rate.
The other 2 points are indeed subjective, I prefer games that don't nod nod wink wink at itself or introduces references to other games or real life elements that have nothing to do with the game lore, I find it immersion breaking.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
It's far more polished and immersive. With ESO it is as if they tried to make a quick buck, with FFXIV it was literally about giving FFXIV another launch and polishing everything.
There is a difference between coming across a difficult enemy in a remote cave or something, and having a fellow player come along to assist you with it, and the more spammy "free for all" nature of FATEs and Hunts. In one case, you're being helped because the person is there and sees another player who could use a helping hand. In the other, a bunch of people are there because there's a reward in it for them personally.
These fellow players happen to be in a "remote cave" but not to kill the same enemy?
Sure. They're there for other reasons, another quest maybe. Or, perhaps there are resource nodes they're after, etc. Maybe they're just exploring - you know, for exploration's sake - and they're in that cave "because it's there".
Your question seems indicative of a "modern MMO" way of thinking; where the only reason to be somewhere is because the game specifically sends you there, and there's no reason to be there otherwise.
When a MMO is designed around the concept of open-world content, it's inclusive of any and everything the game has to offer. A dungeon or cave could host any number of activities, goals, content, etc. It isn't all about some specific, pre-determined series of events leading up to some specific encounter, for which that cave/dungeon is specifically created, and for which it exclusively exists.
In the case of the so-called "modern MMO" where "instanced everything" is King, and it's all about giving everyone their own personal version of the world, where it's "all about and for them", there is no other reason to be in those dungeons/caves than to kill some specific enemy, or complete some specific goal. In fact, in many cases, you can't even enter those places until you've unlocked the appropriate quest, and/or have the required number of people. What the hell is that all about?
Before Instancing became "the big new thing", it was quite common to find public dungeons and caves, some quite large and elaborate, that hosted a variety of different types of content. They existed along side the more traditional raid dungeons we're familiar with now. It wasn't "one or the other". They had both. Hell, even FFXIV 1.0 had both types.
In many cases, you couldn't even see the entire dungeon the first time you go in, because the level range was much wider, and while you might have (for example) level 10 mobs near the entrance, by the time you reached the deepest parts, they were up near level cap. It gave those areas much more longevity. It kept them more mysterious for players and gave them reasons to go back as they progressed. They weren't designed with built-in obsolescence like they are now.
For example... Now, I know you're not a fan of FFXI, but forget your personal opinion of the game overall... that's not what this is about. I'm talking specifically about the way the world was designed.
Think of just about any dungeon or cave in that game. Let's say... Garlaige Citadel. How many different activities were contained in that dungeon alone, and across how many levels? You could have 3 dozen people in there, all doing their own thing, in large groups, small groups or solo. Some might be xp'ing on the main stairs. Others might on the lower level camping Serket. Others might be hunting one of the lesser NMs. Others might be trying to look for one of their AF coffers. Others might be carrying out one of the various quests/missions that involve GC. A group might be working to get through the banishing gates to get to the Maw through the "back door". Others might just be in there to check the place out. All of those people sharing the same space, at the same time, for their own reasons and, for the most part, on their own initiative.
Another example is King Ranperre's tomb. King Ranperre's Tomb has a variety of content based around it, starting around level 2 near the entrance, and ramping up to and including Vrtra, a level 95 HNM dragon in its deepest areas. Among other things, it is(was?) also a popular place for MNK parties to go to grind on Skeletons.
And that same idea extended to just about all the dungeons in XI. Crawlers' Nest, Eldiemme Necropolis, Shakrami Maze, King Ranperre's Tomb, you name it... all were built around that same "shared, open world" concept. The open world dungeons in XI were extremely well designed and implemented, as they supported a number of different activities, and remained relevant for far longer - sometimes for the entirety of a player's 'career' (see Ranperre's Tomb example).
In those situations, it was entirely possible - and fairly common - for someone to come across a fellow player in trouble, whom they could then help out. If someone died, they could have someone nearby come and raise them, etc. And so on.
Those situations helped bring players together, and is how FFXI came to be known for having such a strong community; by creating the opportunities for those encounters to happen, and then letting them happen. That's how you build community. By creating content that brings people together. Not by sequestering everyone away in their own instances and solo quest content, only bringing them together for randomly selected dungeon groups, whom will likely never see each other again.
Instancing has been one of the worst things to happen to the MMORPG genre, in a number of ways. It's right up there with over-the-top hand-holding and player coddling.
Comments
They could be seeking a skyshard, or a lore book to level mages guild. Most quests you may pick up in an OW dungeon in ESO don't involve killing the boss within, so they could be questing.
Killing the boss unlocks an achievement and you'll get some loot. It's not the main reason to go in them. It's to explore.
EDIT: Also at the moment if your in a dwemer dungeon they could be looking for chests to pick for the racial motifs for crafting.
Loads of reason to go in ESO dungeons besides killing.
I was recently subbed to both as they both provided different fixes.
FF14
This would be the safe choice. It is your run-of-the-mill MMO but with Final Fantasy flavor all over the place. The game is exceptionally polished and has a solid development team behind it. It is doing very well and has a very healthy future ahead of it. The game is gorgeous and has an expansion pack in the oven. A constantly growing number of pets and mounts to acquire. The game also features housing now - though it doesn't compare to WildStar or even Rift's housing systems.
Its downsides would be the lack of true character development. While you can level each class/job on a single character, each job/class has a very streamlined item progression and a preferred set of stats. The end-game for most players will revolve around dungeon instances as open world content is severely lacking. Voice acting is very poorly done. Some quests are voice acted, some aren't. Some scenes/cinematic are PARTIALLY voice acted which I found very annoying.
Elder Scrolls Online
Where FF14 embraces the modern MMO formula, this starts to turn it on its head a bit. I found the main scenario to be more engaging and better paced. If you just follow the main story quest and the main quest of each zone, you will miss out on quite of bit of content - as the game does encourage you to explore and wander. The map updates as you explore and makes it easy to note areas you haven't "completed".
Of the two, I think ESO has the best character building. Each of the 4 classes can serve a variety of roles (tank, dps, healer, etc...) and there is an emphasis on choice. You aren't locked into any one role and can change out abilities/gear as you need. Each class can use any weapon and any armor. Your stat choices will be very impactful and relevant. End-game itemization is daunting in terms of all the potential choices between crafted, raid, etc...
There is a bit more emphasis on the open world as well. While instanced dungeons are there, the more rewarding content is found in the open-world. The tiny dungeons - called delves - do have a copy/paste feel to them at times - but you go there for the challenge, not the scenery. The public dungeons are interesting but used mostly for quests and certain achievements. The instanced dungeons can be exceptionally fun and challenging in a visceral sort of way.
The downsides to ESO is that it stumbled greatly at launch. While the game is certainly fun and engaging, it is hard to tell what its future holds. It has had solid, regular development efforts since launch however. The end-game is currently in-flux as they are currently working on a set of updates that will completely altar end-game advancement.
Not always, which may sound surprising.
Some players just go in to get the Skyshard - a click on item that gives you a skill point to spend. Getting to these means you usually have to go through a few corridors/tunnels, but not always to the boss.
ESO's open dungeons are ok for picking up some levelling loot, but little more than that.
As one of the first replies said, ESO better for pvp bias. FFXIV gets the pve vote.
It depends honestly. These 'caves' are getting a makeover in each patch. So they are not only becoming less copy/pasted but they're getting larger, more challenging and re-itemized.
If you like instanced pve - go with FF14. However, if you are looking for a game with a bit more emphasis on exploration and open-world challenges, ESO may be the route to go.
So you're saying the boss rewards are locked behind quests, are not locked behind quests, or are locked behind quests but the game sometimes makes you go in the dungeon without the boss quest in your log?
I just logged out after wiping 8 times to a boss in FFXIV ARR.
Let me give you an answer based on why I think FFXIV ARR has a superior community.
I was doing my roulette to get my tomes poetics for my gear and I needed just like 15 more for this week so I queued for a hard mode since I did not need so much. The whole group was new. I was the only one who knew the dungeon. One of them had watched a youtube vid she said. The pugilist.
The last boss in Brayflox Longstop hard mode is a hard on first timers. He drops a series of bombs three times which you have to knock off very quick to clear an area to stand to protect yourself from the blast. I was the healer. I explained it to them they wiped like mad may be 3 times before even managing to pass to the second set of bombs. Plus the boss is a tank that does mad dashes that can take a chunk of life off if he hits you while you are trying to dps these bombs. All these mechanics and he drops a big bomb which you have to dps quick (usually they use the limit break on it) or it will kill us again at the 3rd phase. In the 3rd phase he also does random dashes that can take a dps down to like 10 % and he has no pattern at that time unlike earlier where his dashes were around the outer rim.
I rezzed ,benediction quick heals using my skills that allow me to cast faster heal for more and so on but we were still dying. I cannot really dps fast cos my instant has a coodown and my area aoe I can only use once cos its a lot of mana and its radius after the first time is not enough. Since they were taking damage a lot I had to save for a lot heals too so I limited myself to one aoe since the adds always target me I had to heal myself too.
I could have walked out but I did not because they were trying and talking ,cheering each other on not rude,angry or upset. The tank's gear was red after the 7th wipe he changed out to other gear from his armoury and we finally downed him on the 9th try. Everyone was so pleased and I got all the commendations but that is not the important part to me it was the feeling I got when we finally downed it and the feeling of camaraderie was so warm and the feeling you get from helping others enjoy a game. Community is what you give and get . We all have to learn the mechanics and new people will make mistakes but I have been helped when I was new and I repaid that kindness shown to me and that is how you build a community and make a game enjoyable for others. I am sure this run on this dungeon will stay in their minds more than any easy runs they will have later.
The community in FFXIV is excellent . This is the number one reason you should play it.
Boss is not locked behind quests. You can just go in and kill the boss if you want and get the loot.
There are 3 reasons to go into one of ESO's open-world "caves" or "delves" - none of which require a quest.
1. A skyshard - collecting a set of 3 of these will reward you with a skill point. Some delves have a skyshard
2. Achievement - there is a boss in each "cave" that is used to track whether or not you have been there. Kill the boss and get the credit.
3. Loot/Challenge - the madeover "caves" are more challenging and feature better loot. Previously, only the boss had the potential to drop the great stuff.
In that case I don't really see why those helpers couldn't help for the sake of the rewards as well, instead of out of their altruistic nature. Like with Hunts and FATEs in FFXIV.
Personally I think it always comes back to incentives which encourage behavior that can be seen as helping someone. Whether it is secondary or primary objective depends on the individual.
There's also the public group ow dungeon ("cave", "delve") that consists of 5/6 mini bosses and a main boss that has to be triggered (mainly by killing all of one type of enemy) to unlock a skill point. Again not locked behind a quest but you will find 1 or 2 quests within it.
ffxiv the quests were so menotenous it made me quit.
if you have to chose play eso
It all depends on what you would rather play . Everyone is giving you opinions and thats all they are , not facts.
I played ESO for 3 months and got 2 characters to max level and did every dungeon they had + pvp . It was ok , but ill never play it again because it felt like a chore.
FFXIV i have been playing for .....i dunno 2 years off and on ? have 1 character and it has 5 classes maxed out (level and best gear available atm ) . i still play FFXIV because there's simply more to do . I havent even started the crafting classes yet either.
FF is much stronger in the dungeon/raid front, that's not really a focus in ESO at the moment.
FF has good crafting, i think they are both equal good in different ways.
ESO Questing is awesome. Theres tons of it, you are not pushed to rush through, no hubs, well written and fully voiced without the childish humour often seen, best in genre imo.
ESO has a gorgeous and massive open virtual world, FF14 has lots of maps with corridors etc.
ESO Skill sets and champion system offers a lot of long term gameplay that doesn't involve keeping up in the gear race. Also offers horizontal progression with new guilds/skills in the future e.g thieves incomming etc.
ESO PVP zone is massive and is starting to shape up well.
ESO has a great justice system incomming that is going to offer something new to MMO's
ESO is aimed more at adults (obviously a total preference thing)
ESO is much more RP friendly, see skills, new provisioning system, lore.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I can't say I agree with these three. Aside from being fully voiced, that is a clear perk over FFXIV (though it slows down the development of new content, so it's a double-bladed sword and which is why FFXIV isn't doing it).
In terms of PVE gameplay, FFXIV;ARR is a far superior game, its far more polished, the combat mechanics are well developed and character development is fairly complex. In terms of Final Fantasy in general, FFXIV;ARR well represents the Final Fantasy genre, so much so that imo fans of FF and and do find a home in this game, its also one of the friendliest communities i've encountered, perhaps because its a mostly 'cooperative' gameplay MMO rather than 'competitive', new players tend to be supported rather than ridiculed, which can often happen in the more PVP orientated games.
In MMO's i tend to have certain preferences when it comes to playing them, i particularly enjoy Healing classes, in FFXIV;ARR for instance i have a White Mage, i also have an Archer that i am working up to be a Bard, and its that kind of gameplay that ESO doesn't really do well at, if anything the Magic system in ESO is about as dire as it can get, it really handles magic very badly, even compared to TES games like Oblivion and Skyrim, ESO just does not do magic well, nor healing generally for that matter, in the two weeks or so that i played ESO, i found that one of the most frustratingly perverse parts of the game, the character classes and the development within them, is weak, extremely so, which as a fan of TES games in general since Daggerfall, it really didn't give me the feeling of playing a TES game that FFXIV;ARR does of playing a FF game, not that the genres are in any way similar, but in that they stand apart, very much apart.
In the end it boils down to whether you prefer cooperative or competitive game play, FFXIV;ARR is a much superior PVE experience, particularly when it comes to group play, and ESO is a more PVP orientated experience, and the PVE experience very much lacking, particularly for groups, as the game still appears to suffer from instancing issues when it comes to grouping.
playing: Dragon Age
Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect
Want to try: Fallen Earth
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
mmorpg.com is the only place you will find someone say something about phasing now a days. I think that was 1-2 month after launch issue.
FFXIV:ARR > ESO
IMO, of course. Played both, FFXIV grabbed me more and was definitely more polished. I'd even say more fun too. That said, ESP had some fun PvP, but that's about it.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Considering most people quit after 1-2 months it's not that surprising.
I would agree that voice acting is usually a huge cost with little benefit, but they done it very well and it is particularly relevant to elder scrolls games, it was the difference between dull quests and really enjoyable quests and fortunately they are continuing to pump out content at a huge rate.
The other 2 points are indeed subjective, I prefer games that don't nod nod wink wink at itself or introduces references to other games or real life elements that have nothing to do with the game lore, I find it immersion breaking.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
FFXIV is the much better game.
It's far more polished and immersive. With ESO it is as if they tried to make a quick buck, with FFXIV it was literally about giving FFXIV another launch and polishing everything.
MMO actually seem to worsen over time
they're like preschooler versions of old MMO
EQ's dungeons:
Sure. They're there for other reasons, another quest maybe. Or, perhaps there are resource nodes they're after, etc. Maybe they're just exploring - you know, for exploration's sake - and they're in that cave "because it's there".
Your question seems indicative of a "modern MMO" way of thinking; where the only reason to be somewhere is because the game specifically sends you there, and there's no reason to be there otherwise.
When a MMO is designed around the concept of open-world content, it's inclusive of any and everything the game has to offer. A dungeon or cave could host any number of activities, goals, content, etc. It isn't all about some specific, pre-determined series of events leading up to some specific encounter, for which that cave/dungeon is specifically created, and for which it exclusively exists.
In the case of the so-called "modern MMO" where "instanced everything" is King, and it's all about giving everyone their own personal version of the world, where it's "all about and for them", there is no other reason to be in those dungeons/caves than to kill some specific enemy, or complete some specific goal. In fact, in many cases, you can't even enter those places until you've unlocked the appropriate quest, and/or have the required number of people. What the hell is that all about?
Before Instancing became "the big new thing", it was quite common to find public dungeons and caves, some quite large and elaborate, that hosted a variety of different types of content. They existed along side the more traditional raid dungeons we're familiar with now. It wasn't "one or the other". They had both. Hell, even FFXIV 1.0 had both types.
In many cases, you couldn't even see the entire dungeon the first time you go in, because the level range was much wider, and while you might have (for example) level 10 mobs near the entrance, by the time you reached the deepest parts, they were up near level cap. It gave those areas much more longevity. It kept them more mysterious for players and gave them reasons to go back as they progressed. They weren't designed with built-in obsolescence like they are now.
For example... Now, I know you're not a fan of FFXI, but forget your personal opinion of the game overall... that's not what this is about. I'm talking specifically about the way the world was designed.
Think of just about any dungeon or cave in that game. Let's say... Garlaige Citadel. How many different activities were contained in that dungeon alone, and across how many levels? You could have 3 dozen people in there, all doing their own thing, in large groups, small groups or solo. Some might be xp'ing on the main stairs. Others might on the lower level camping Serket. Others might be hunting one of the lesser NMs. Others might be trying to look for one of their AF coffers. Others might be carrying out one of the various quests/missions that involve GC. A group might be working to get through the banishing gates to get to the Maw through the "back door". Others might just be in there to check the place out. All of those people sharing the same space, at the same time, for their own reasons and, for the most part, on their own initiative.
Another example is King Ranperre's tomb. King Ranperre's Tomb has a variety of content based around it, starting around level 2 near the entrance, and ramping up to and including Vrtra, a level 95 HNM dragon in its deepest areas. Among other things, it is(was?) also a popular place for MNK parties to go to grind on Skeletons.
And that same idea extended to just about all the dungeons in XI. Crawlers' Nest, Eldiemme Necropolis, Shakrami Maze, King Ranperre's Tomb, you name it... all were built around that same "shared, open world" concept. The open world dungeons in XI were extremely well designed and implemented, as they supported a number of different activities, and remained relevant for far longer - sometimes for the entirety of a player's 'career' (see Ranperre's Tomb example).
In those situations, it was entirely possible - and fairly common - for someone to come across a fellow player in trouble, whom they could then help out. If someone died, they could have someone nearby come and raise them, etc. And so on.
Those situations helped bring players together, and is how FFXI came to be known for having such a strong community; by creating the opportunities for those encounters to happen, and then letting them happen. That's how you build community. By creating content that brings people together. Not by sequestering everyone away in their own instances and solo quest content, only bringing them together for randomly selected dungeon groups, whom will likely never see each other again.
Instancing has been one of the worst things to happen to the MMORPG genre, in a number of ways. It's right up there with over-the-top hand-holding and player coddling.