I totally agree OP and fact is Casinos used to be illegal in Canada then of course money,greed,poor excuses,morals have changed allowed them to start opening up everywhere.
I have heard basically one excuse that has any merit but i still don't agree with it.Some devs like to say it allows gamer's to pay for the parts of game they want to play.This is far from the truth because they are not selling parts of a game but items like bags,mounts,xp pots ect ect.
Also gaming is not like real life where it is a dog eat world,you EXPECT that everyone is treated fairly.However what devs like to do is sell really cool items,tons buy them up them come out with even cooler items making those last ones obsolete and not as desirable anymore.it is a form of reeling,suckering you in to keep spending more and more.
What the whole system has done to gaming is allow developers to make more shallow games,put less cost and effort into the game that way they can support free logins.Their upside is that they can go far above the nominal 15 dollar sub fee,in many cases they have taken 100/200/500+ dollars in one scoop from fellow gamer's.
A perfect example is Magicamy from Hearthstone.HS acts like this totally free game however we all know people desire those Legends and gold cards.Well MagicAmy has an entire collection of gold cards,that is into the multiple thousands of dollars in one full year.
How many years would it take to spend multiple thousands at 15 a month?Well at 180 a year that is probably a LIFE time of gaming lmao on ONE game in ONE year !!.
I remember players admitting they spent 500-1500 in one month on Ruins of Magic back in the day.There was a gamer just recently in here admitted to spending 200+ on a game that was only supposed to be fluff items lol.It is most definitely a misleading and addictive form of gambling that shoudld have better rules and regulations on spending.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I totally agree OP and fact is Casinos used to be illegal in Canada then of course money,greed,poor excuses,morals have changed allowed them to start opening up everywhere.
I have heard basically one excuse that has any merit but i still don't agree with it.Some devs like to say it allows gamer's to pay for the parts of game they want to play.This is far from the truth because they are not selling parts of a game but items like bags,mounts,xp pots ect ect.
Also gaming is not like real life where it is a dog eat world,you EXPECT that everyone is treated fairly.However what devs like to do is sell really cool items,tons buy them up them come out with even cooler items making those last ones obsolete and not as desirable anymore.it is a form of reeling,suckering you in to keep spending more and more.
What the whole system has done to gaming is allow developers to make more shallow games,put less cost and effort into the game that way they can support free logins.Their upside is that they can go far above the nominal 15 dollar sub fee,in many cases they have taken 100/200/500+ dollars in one scoop from fellow gamer's.
A perfect example is Magicamy from Hearthstone.HS acts like this totally free game however we all know people desire those Legends and gold cards.Well MagicAmy has an entire collection of gold cards,that is into the multiple thousands of dollars in one full year.
How many years would it take to spend multiple thousands at 15 a month?Well at 180 a year that is probably a LIFE time of gaming lmao on ONE game in ONE year !!.
I remember players admitting they spent 500-1500 in one month on Ruins of Magic back in the day.There was a gamer just recently in here admitted to spending 200+ on a game that was only supposed to be fluff items lol.It is most definitely a misleading and addictive form of gambling that shoudld have better rules and regulations on spending.
I hate casinos. Video games are becoming more casinoish.....
A $60 box price + $15 price for 2nd month and on for a game that you can't even see if your PC can run period - because no P2P MMO has a free trial on launch that I know of.
Free trial on launch would completely fuck up the servers, I am sure you are aware of what happened when the ArcheAge launch rolled around. Several thousand player queues that took all day.
I agree that the $60 box price is a little outdated but there have been plenty of opportunities for the most recent subscription MMOs to test them before release. And I don't care if people think that's not indicative of the real product, it is. These betas are purely promotional, after the game has gone gold and if there are any issues they will persist throughout launch.
So-called "f2p" may or may not be a scam. It is at the least DISHONEST advertising. As has been said 99% of those "f2p" mmo's allow you to start there game without playing. But, once you are at a point you need to advance to enjoy the game, you almost MUST purchase something to continue. If you want to KEEP UP with everyone that is purchasing the better items, then you must choose to either do the same or be left behind. It is kind of like breathing, you can do it for free but if you don't by this gas mask we are going to poison the air and really make it difficult.
As to those saying that they f2p model is great for those that wish to try the game first, I say your right. But they once called that a free limited demo. Now, they just add in that ability to start scamming money from you at the start.
Because most men don't want to admit they got bent over and got handed a big one from behind. It isn't until they finnaly have come to there senses and come out the closet. Lolz
Hate f2p games only ones that are pay to win will I ever play . Stuff like skins or fluff
Originally posted by Magiknight F2P is very shady. F2P can't be about anything except getting the player to purchase more items with real money. Creating a good game equates to creating a good cash shop with F2P. Pushing people to purchase items certainly doesn't do anything to help create a stable community in a MMO.
A sub is easier to deal with and it ensures in most cases (sub only) what's in game is what's there to achieve. However, the motivation is the same, that's what the sub is all about, as it's what's needed to run the service as well as see profit, which is necessary and the point of the company as a whole. Companies do at times take it to the extremes, yet they force no one to buy anything. That's on the buyer..
Take something like TOR, the best part of the game is absolutely free. Unless it's part of an expansion, that run around 20 bucks.
They gave me the Hutt expansion simply because I paid my sub. I see no wrong in that type of model.
There's nothing they sell that gives any real advantage, most of it is cosmetic or sparkly pony oriented, and the armors from crates in most cases are ugly. They also give no power, you have to do that on your own "orange gear".
I much prefer the in game reward items. many of which have the same models you'll find in crates, which can also be purchased with creds in game if you want them.
That's the problem with Generalizing the F2P market and blanketing it as one type of service. It simply isn't, hence why no one feels the need to add threads like this. It's mostly a case by case basis, most of the real offenders in the P2W category are Asian games, which is I guess the norm there. It really isn't here in the west.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A $60 box price + $15 price for 2nd month and on for a game that you can't even see if your PC can run period - because no P2P MMO has a free trial on launch that I know of.
Free trial on launch would completely fuck up the servers, I am sure you are aware of what happened when the ArcheAge launch rolled around. Several thousand player queues that took all day.
I agree that the $60 box price is a little outdated but there have been plenty of opportunities for the most recent subscription MMOs to test them before release. And I don't care if people think that's not indicative of the real product, it is. These betas are purely promotional, after the game has gone gold and if there are any issues they will persist throughout launch.
They could have 2 servers with queues in 100,000s that are only for trial accounts - that wouldn't F up the P2P servers. I wouldn't mind waiting 13 hours to try a P2P game for 30min to see if it's worth spending $60 on.
The reason companies dont' do this is they would lose a TON of sales - as P2P makes most of the profits back on box sales.
This still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would you want to wait 13 hours at launch when you had the ability to play the game beforehand, stress-free?
The official game launch was on June 3rd, with preorder headstart from May 31st. That is only 13 days after the end of open beta.
I don't see how you can say that this is in any way deceiving and not also lead to a loss of sales. Everybody had the chance to test the game for an extended amount of time.
Good part there option for people out there people want to spend money is up to them if f2p b2p or sub. Why you think that people feel like spending something new with in the game or for, cuz marking works people fall prey to it, look at all the streamer, they get beta keys tell you how good this game is you should buy it, then they get more free stuff to give to viewers why they get even more viewer to fall prey to watch them play some game your not sure want to play but keep on telling you should try it this is great.
I totally agree OP and fact is Casinos used to be illegal in Canada then of course money,greed,poor excuses,morals have changed allowed them to start opening up everywhere.
Casinos and MMOs are in no way related whatsoever. One is a direct gambling using money to make more money - the other is pure entertainment.
I have heard basically one excuse that has any merit but i still don't agree with it.Some devs like to say it allows gamer's to pay for the parts of game they want to play.This is far from the truth because they are not selling parts of a game but items like bags,mounts,xp pots ect ect.
Some crappy F2P implementations are actually selling parts of the game - IMO this is a terrible model.
Also gaming is not like real life where it is a dog eat world,you EXPECT that everyone is treated fairly.
Expecting farirness in games is as naive as expecting fairness in real life.
However what devs like to do is sell really cool items,tons buy them up them come out with even cooler items making those last ones obsolete and not as desirable anymore.it is a form of reeling,suckering you in to keep spending more and more.
And P2P games don't do this with expansions that have FAR superior items - look at WoW - again this is not a F2P game issue - P2P games do this to sell new expansions to players.
What the whole system has done to gaming is allow developers to make more shallow games,put less cost and effort into the game that way they can support free logins.Their upside is that they can go far above the nominal 15 dollar sub fee,in many cases they have taken 100/200/500+ dollars in one scoop from fellow gamer's.
This is a very smart business model - as not all gamers have the same disposable income. Wealth is NOT distributed equally in the real world - there are 1% gamers that can drop $100K every month on a game and not even blink an eye. Putting in 1%s in the same bucket with everyone is simply lost potential revenue.
A perfect example is Magicamy from Hearthstone.HS acts like this totally free game however we all know people desire those Legends and gold cards.Well MagicAmy has an entire collection of gold cards,that is into the multiple thousands of dollars in one full year.
Again this is an issue of disposable income - if someone can afford to spend 1000s on virtual cards for entertainment purposes - what's wrong with that?
How many years would it take to spend multiple thousands at 15 a month?Well at 180 a year that is probably a LIFE time of gaming lmao on ONE game in ONE year !!.
There are folks who spent 1000s on P2P games via 3rd party sites (to buy fully geared out characters or gear or power leveling etc...) - P2P games are NOT immune to this, they just don't allow it in-game. But we all know the reality of it - it's happening via 3rd party sites.
I remember players admitting they spent 500-1500 in one month on Ruins of Magic back in the day.There was a gamer just recently in here admitted to spending 200+ on a game that was only supposed to be fluff items lol.It is most definitely a misleading and addictive form of gambling that shoudld have better rules and regulations on spending.
It is not gambling - video gaming does not fall under gambling laws because it isn't gambling!
Regulations on spending???
What about consumer accountability? Are people not responsible for managing their own finances?
There are MMOs and other video games in development where gambling for real life money is the game. I posted a thread a few months back about it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There are MMOs and other video games in development where gambling for real life money is the game. I posted a thread a few months back about it.
Then those are gambling games - again what relevance do those have with F2P MMORPGs?
What was that MMO FPS (I thin) that marketed itself as a f2p game and it operated sort of like a slot machine? It changed it's name a few times I think. People had to buy stuff to really do anything worth while but they had a small chance of getting something they could sell for real value. It's the same game where people could buy and sell land for real money and charge people tax for farming mobs on their land. Forget the name, sure someone will know.
PS Think it was this game which is billed as a MMO and F2P
This still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would you want to wait 13 hours at launch when you had the ability to play the game beforehand, stress-free?
The official game launch was on June 3rd, with preorder headstart from May 31st. That is only 13 days after the end of open beta.
I don't see how you can say that this is in any way deceiving and not also lead to a loss of sales. Everybody had the chance to test the game for an extended amount of time.
Well that's not true - there are millions of folks who miss open betas - you know people that don't follow MMO sites and are not in the loop of upcoming games.
Again I have friends at work that are not gamers - they learn about games from me - these folks are not participating in open betas - but they would want to check out games that I play (post launch) - so again saying *everybody* is not really true.
Again - have 1 or 2 servers on launch for free trial that limit game time to 30min and then deletes your account - again the reason why this is not done = mass loss of box sales.
Then just tell your friends 2 weeks earlier that the game that has been in development for a full 8 years is coming out soon and if they want to check it out they should register for a free open beta account.
These are MMOs, there are not a dozen coming out every week. I don't think it is unreasonable to be in the know a little. Yes, impulse casual buyers are a big part of the console market, I am not so sure about MMOs.
Once again, in the example of ArcheAge, there was really no way for your friends to play the game in the first 2 weeks without paying for patron status.
If you have been following MMO launches, you know that the biggest problems are the webservers (for registration) and the login servers, not the actual servers that you play on since these are player-capped anyways. It is just not that easy to provide trial-servers at launch, even if they wanted to.
I feel like we are off topic and we are not getting anywhere.
F2p business models are often worse than gambling. Casinos are required to display the payout rate of slot machines and display the current jackpot. Nobody is supervising the "payouts" of the common f2p treasure chests. An advertised rare item like a mount could be inifnitely rare and nobody would be the wiser, certainly not the casual player.
Dota 2 changed the drops from treasure chests at the beginning of the year: http://blog.dota2.com/2014/03/the-end-end-of-duplicates/ . Now you can't get multiples when opening several crates in a row. Debatably this was done because opening treasure chests before was too close to gambling and the chinese government (one of or the biggest market for dota 2) was not happy with it.
Casinos and MMOs are in no way related whatsoever.
Vindictus MMO cash shop:
Real Casino:
Wow .. graphics =! actual mechanics of gambling
The key differentiator remains this:
1. Casinos are in fact gambling establishments where you lose and win actual money. To play ANY game in a casino it in fact requires spending real money.
2. What MMO has the mechanic of winning real money as part of regular gameplay (not talking about e-sport competitions obviously)
It would make the F2P casino worse than casino gambling, like the person above said, since you can not win money in the cash shop, but you can win money in the real casino. And real casinos you spend money in are regulated, F2P cash shop casinos are not.
Casinos and MMOs are in no way related whatsoever.
Vindictus MMO cash shop:
Real Casino:
Wow .. graphics =! actual mechanics of gambling
The key differentiator remains this:
1. Casinos are in fact gambling establishments where you lose and win actual money. To play ANY game in a casino it in fact requires spending real money and winnings are paid out again in real money.
2. What MMO has the mechanic of winning real money as part of regular gameplay (not talking about e-sport competitions obviously)
You mentioned Vindictus - can you spend $10 in Vindictus and win $100 as a part of 10x payout in-game? Does this exist?
"Just because you don’t enable cash-outs doesn’t mean your virtual currency is compliant with gambling statutes"
the payout is not what defines the gambling, it is the maze of legality that MMO try to cirvument, article is made for MMO companies to circumvent gambling laws
It would make the F2P casino worse than casino gambling, like the person above said, since you can not win money in the cash shop that is not regulated as people pointed out, but you can win money in the real casino.
Again in what MMO (that's covered on this site) can you spend real money and win real money as part of regular gameplay?
It would make the F2P casino worse than casino gambling, like the person above said, since you can not win money in the cash shop that is not regulated as people pointed out, but you can win money in the real casino.
You've lost me - are we still talking about MMOs like Vindictus, LoTRO, EQ, PS2, NWN etc... ?
Or are we talking about some Gambling MMO that I have never heard of?
Again in what MMO (that's covered on this site) can you spend real money and win real money as part of regular gameplay?
How can an in-game "casino" that doesn't take real money and doesn't payout real money fall under gambling laws?
That is not an ingame casino, that is the way the game displays your reward from a treasure chest that you buy with real money on the cash shop. This is a very common technique in f2p games like CS:GO as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgcx_--w5Q8
The reward is predetermined but they display it like a casino wheel to make it "exciting" and stir up the same emotions that gambling would.
It's hard to see how gambling with no possible monetary win and no government supervision is in any way better than real gambling. On top of that you can implement cash-in limits at online casinos that limit you to deposit a certain amount a day. There is no such limit for f2p cash shops. A 14 year old child can steal their mothers credit card and buy virtual currency in a f2p game without ever having to prove that they are 18, and gamble with it on treasure chests.
It would make the F2P casino worse than casino gambling, like the person above said, since you can not win money in the cash shop that is not regulated as people pointed out, but you can win money in the real casino.
You've lost me - are we still talking about MMOs like Vindictus, LoTRO, EQ, PS2, NWN etc... ?
Or are we talking about some Gambling MMO that I have never heard of?
Again in what MMO (that's covered on this site) can you spend real money and win real money as part of regular gameplay?
How can an in-game "casino" that doesn't take real money and doesn't payout real money fall under gambling laws?
in regards to the casino wheel in vindictus, seems to be a bit of confusion, you spend real money on it, with your VISA card, real money gets you tickets, those tickets are spent on the wheel, same way you buy casino tickets in real life
without spending real cash from your bank account, you can not spin the wheel
if you try to spin the casino wheel....
...
you are taken to a page to transfer money to the Nexon bank account, each time you tranfer money, you can spin the wheel..
dunno how this is not gambling, it is the exact same thing
only difference is you can not gain money with it, only lose money, that only makes them worse than real casinos, it is still gambling
Yes is wrong if a game that does thing like casino like lockbox and other stuff, but mmo in market in general like if you kill a boss you get a random chance of a boss loot you may want this, and you spend so far 3 to 5 months on it, may or may never get it but people are use to this is how lockbox and other stuff become so easy addicted. If mmo don't change this never going away they need to get you to addicted to something to keep you playing for time or money, is not only free to play, sub does it as well.
Like if you don't see a wheel of a casino, don't mean is not there.
I really don't think it can be called scamming, sure It's shitty business practice, but i can't see it being illegal, the only way to prevent these systems is to not support them, and with these games surviving people apparently are.
I'd love to know why as well, absolutely boggles my mind
Well, we do have seen some scams, like when they nerf items people have bought. Worst scam ever was probably the SWG expansion that hit just before the NGE, it was totally worthless 2 weeks after people bought it (even if it wasn't exactly an item).
Generally speaking though are powerful items you sell not a scam unless you charge a ridicoulus sum for them. They do tend to mess up the balance of the game and make the in game economy pretty useless though so it is still bad but when you get what you pay for it still isn't a scam as long as it keeps being useful for at least a while.
The main problem with selling powerful stuff though is not balance or economy but the fact that the main purpose in many MMOs is to get the best gear, if you just can buy it there is little point to play.
Comments
I totally agree OP and fact is Casinos used to be illegal in Canada then of course money,greed,poor excuses,morals have changed allowed them to start opening up everywhere.
I have heard basically one excuse that has any merit but i still don't agree with it.Some devs like to say it allows gamer's to pay for the parts of game they want to play.This is far from the truth because they are not selling parts of a game but items like bags,mounts,xp pots ect ect.
Also gaming is not like real life where it is a dog eat world,you EXPECT that everyone is treated fairly.However what devs like to do is sell really cool items,tons buy them up them come out with even cooler items making those last ones obsolete and not as desirable anymore.it is a form of reeling,suckering you in to keep spending more and more.
What the whole system has done to gaming is allow developers to make more shallow games,put less cost and effort into the game that way they can support free logins.Their upside is that they can go far above the nominal 15 dollar sub fee,in many cases they have taken 100/200/500+ dollars in one scoop from fellow gamer's.
A perfect example is Magicamy from Hearthstone.HS acts like this totally free game however we all know people desire those Legends and gold cards.Well MagicAmy has an entire collection of gold cards,that is into the multiple thousands of dollars in one full year.
How many years would it take to spend multiple thousands at 15 a month?Well at 180 a year that is probably a LIFE time of gaming lmao on ONE game in ONE year !!.
I remember players admitting they spent 500-1500 in one month on Ruins of Magic back in the day.There was a gamer just recently in here admitted to spending 200+ on a game that was only supposed to be fluff items lol.It is most definitely a misleading and addictive form of gambling that shoudld have better rules and regulations on spending.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I hate casinos. Video games are becoming more casinoish.....
Free trial on launch would completely fuck up the servers, I am sure you are aware of what happened when the ArcheAge launch rolled around. Several thousand player queues that took all day.
I agree that the $60 box price is a little outdated but there have been plenty of opportunities for the most recent subscription MMOs to test them before release. And I don't care if people think that's not indicative of the real product, it is. These betas are purely promotional, after the game has gone gold and if there are any issues they will persist throughout launch.
So-called "f2p" may or may not be a scam. It is at the least DISHONEST advertising. As has been said 99% of those "f2p" mmo's allow you to start there game without playing. But, once you are at a point you need to advance to enjoy the game, you almost MUST purchase something to continue. If you want to KEEP UP with everyone that is purchasing the better items, then you must choose to either do the same or be left behind. It is kind of like breathing, you can do it for free but if you don't by this gas mask we are going to poison the air and really make it difficult.
As to those saying that they f2p model is great for those that wish to try the game first, I say your right. But they once called that a free limited demo. Now, they just add in that ability to start scamming money from you at the start.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Hate f2p games only ones that are pay to win will I ever play . Stuff like skins or fluff
A sub is easier to deal with and it ensures in most cases (sub only) what's in game is what's there to achieve. However, the motivation is the same, that's what the sub is all about, as it's what's needed to run the service as well as see profit, which is necessary and the point of the company as a whole. Companies do at times take it to the extremes, yet they force no one to buy anything. That's on the buyer..
Take something like TOR, the best part of the game is absolutely free. Unless it's part of an expansion, that run around 20 bucks.
They gave me the Hutt expansion simply because I paid my sub. I see no wrong in that type of model.
There's nothing they sell that gives any real advantage, most of it is cosmetic or sparkly pony oriented, and the armors from crates in most cases are ugly. They also give no power, you have to do that on your own "orange gear".
I much prefer the in game reward items. many of which have the same models you'll find in crates, which can also be purchased with creds in game if you want them.
That's the problem with Generalizing the F2P market and blanketing it as one type of service. It simply isn't, hence why no one feels the need to add threads like this. It's mostly a case by case basis, most of the real offenders in the P2W category are Asian games, which is I guess the norm there. It really isn't here in the west.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would you want to wait 13 hours at launch when you had the ability to play the game beforehand, stress-free?
Using the example of Wildstar:
The open beta ran from May 8th to May 18th (http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/news/open-beta-is-coming-may-8/) and allowed you to level up to 30, way more than you would ever accomplish in 30 minutes.
The official game launch was on June 3rd, with preorder headstart from May 31st. That is only 13 days after the end of open beta.
I don't see how you can say that this is in any way deceiving and not also lead to a loss of sales. Everybody had the chance to test the game for an extended amount of time.
There are MMOs and other video games in development where gambling for real life money is the game. I posted a thread a few months back about it.
+1
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
What was that MMO FPS (I thin) that marketed itself as a f2p game and it operated sort of like a slot machine? It changed it's name a few times I think. People had to buy stuff to really do anything worth while but they had a small chance of getting something they could sell for real value. It's the same game where people could buy and sell land for real money and charge people tax for farming mobs on their land. Forget the name, sure someone will know.
PS Think it was this game which is billed as a MMO and F2P
They will be "free" to play.
Then just tell your friends 2 weeks earlier that the game that has been in development for a full 8 years is coming out soon and if they want to check it out they should register for a free open beta account.
These are MMOs, there are not a dozen coming out every week. I don't think it is unreasonable to be in the know a little. Yes, impulse casual buyers are a big part of the console market, I am not so sure about MMOs.
Once again, in the example of ArcheAge, there was really no way for your friends to play the game in the first 2 weeks without paying for patron status.
If you have been following MMO launches, you know that the biggest problems are the webservers (for registration) and the login servers, not the actual servers that you play on since these are player-capped anyways. It is just not that easy to provide trial-servers at launch, even if they wanted to.
I feel like we are off topic and we are not getting anywhere.
Vindictus MMO cash shop:
Real Casino:
F2p business models are often worse than gambling. Casinos are required to display the payout rate of slot machines and display the current jackpot. Nobody is supervising the "payouts" of the common f2p treasure chests. An advertised rare item like a mount could be inifnitely rare and nobody would be the wiser, certainly not the casual player.
Dota 2 changed the drops from treasure chests at the beginning of the year: http://blog.dota2.com/2014/03/the-end-end-of-duplicates/ . Now you can't get multiples when opening several crates in a row. Debatably this was done because opening treasure chests before was too close to gambling and the chinese government (one of or the biggest market for dota 2) was not happy with it.
Edit: Rehost for Kyoris :P
Real Casino:
It would make the F2P casino worse than casino gambling, like the person above said, since you can not win money in the cash shop, but you can win money in the real casino. And real casinos you spend money in are regulated, F2P cash shop casinos are not.
2. Dragons Tale
No, can not gain money, only spend for the chance on the wheel for items.
The wheel is just one of the cash shop chance games, you have random boxes and other type wheels too.
http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Media/files/Make%20Sure%20Your%20Virtual%20Currency%20Doesn%27t%20Enter%20Illegal%20Gambling%20Territory%281%29.pdf
"Just because you don’t enable cash-outs doesn’t mean your virtual currency is compliant with gambling statutes"
the payout is not what defines the gambling, it is the maze of legality that MMO try to cirvument, article is made for MMO companies to circumvent gambling laws
I already mentioned it entropia universe.
That is not an ingame casino, that is the way the game displays your reward from a treasure chest that you buy with real money on the cash shop. This is a very common technique in f2p games like CS:GO as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgcx_--w5Q8
The reward is predetermined but they display it like a casino wheel to make it "exciting" and stir up the same emotions that gambling would.
It's hard to see how gambling with no possible monetary win and no government supervision is in any way better than real gambling. On top of that you can implement cash-in limits at online casinos that limit you to deposit a certain amount a day. There is no such limit for f2p cash shops. A 14 year old child can steal their mothers credit card and buy virtual currency in a f2p game without ever having to prove that they are 18, and gamble with it on treasure chests.
Dragons Tale
You buy the currency in the game with real money.
in regards to the casino wheel in vindictus, seems to be a bit of confusion, you spend real money on it, with your VISA card, real money gets you tickets, those tickets are spent on the wheel, same way you buy casino tickets in real life
without spending real cash from your bank account, you can not spin the wheel
if you try to spin the casino wheel....
...
you are taken to a page to transfer money to the Nexon bank account, each time you tranfer money, you can spin the wheel..
dunno how this is not gambling, it is the exact same thing
only difference is you can not gain money with it, only lose money, that only makes them worse than real casinos, it is still gambling
Yes is wrong if a game that does thing like casino like lockbox and other stuff, but mmo in market in general like if you kill a boss you get a random chance of a boss loot you may want this, and you spend so far 3 to 5 months on it, may or may never get it but people are use to this is how lockbox and other stuff become so easy addicted. If mmo don't change this never going away they need to get you to addicted to something to keep you playing for time or money, is not only free to play, sub does it as well.
Like if you don't see a wheel of a casino, don't mean is not there.
Well, we do have seen some scams, like when they nerf items people have bought. Worst scam ever was probably the SWG expansion that hit just before the NGE, it was totally worthless 2 weeks after people bought it (even if it wasn't exactly an item).
Generally speaking though are powerful items you sell not a scam unless you charge a ridicoulus sum for them. They do tend to mess up the balance of the game and make the in game economy pretty useless though so it is still bad but when you get what you pay for it still isn't a scam as long as it keeps being useful for at least a while.
The main problem with selling powerful stuff though is not balance or economy but the fact that the main purpose in many MMOs is to get the best gear, if you just can buy it there is little point to play.