The BEST no wait ONLY true MMOFPS which you can play for FREE and they have the NERVE to try and MAKE MONEY!? What do they think they are...a BUSINESS!?!
Every cash shop is a casino scam, this sort of behaviour is to be expected when the business plan that is behind fruit machines (slot machines) is applied to gaming.
If you don't want to deal with how microtransactions impact games, then don't play games with microtransactions.
Complaining won't get you anywhere.
Exactly. And it is not like devs hide the fact that there are microtransactions? .. in fact they have to promote it loud and clear, because they want to entice the whales to buy.
It is really quite simple. Just play the game, and move on when you hit a pay wall. You already got some fun for free, there is nothing to complain about.
You have to be careful when buying entertainment. P2P games with a cash shop are like movies where you pay to get in, and then have to pay again to see the ending. F2P games are like being able to see a random 10 minutes of a movie, and then you have to pay the meter every 10 minutes to keep watching.
As an old fart, I refuse to change. I'm going to only play MMO's where I can buy the game, and pay a fixed fee to play the whole game. No F2P games for me, no P2P with a cash shop games. Alas, the market seems to be leaving me behind. This micro-monetized scheme seems to be taking over.
This is why I never play games with a cash shop. Just say no to micro transaction games if this bothers you. Ever single game with a cash shop will eventually do this if they havent already.
Drop rates are never set in stone .Even in non f2p games with no microtransaction adjustments to drop rates if they find there are items too easily obtained or too hard to drop is common. Who would be naive enough to believe drop rates are set at launch . Of course in a micro transaction game they would naturally adjust it to encourage people to spend in the cash shop. Why is this even news ?
Gaming blog In An Age is tracking the recent saga of PlanetSide 2's implant system, noting that the team quietly nerfed the drop rate of free implants and downwardly adjusted the power of tier 1 through 3 implants in order to push sales for the new tier 4 implants. Implants offer temporary buffs or abilities for characters and require an energy cost to activate.
SOE President John Smedleydefended the move on Twitter: "Sorry, but we are actually trying to make money. I don't consider it a money grab." In a later tweet, he clarified that the team "made the drop rate [for implants] too high a while ago."
I see that you play a sub game.
TLDR: the economics of the F2P experience, from MMORPG's to mobile gaming, is based on what economists believed to be a theoretical construct. Turns out ignorant, and I mean that only to indicate lack of knowledge, and compulsive humans are happy to engage in such a constructed market. Mind you I don't. If you want to understand how it works, Google up "Perfectly Price Discriminating Monopolies".
As far as the ethics of such, we economists don't evaluate such. Let it suffice that we assume that the participants are willing and knowledgeable.
But adjusting droprate in secret after the fact, to pull more revenue, no, I had no idea SoE was doing that.
You must be fairly new to the MMO world, or at least have never heard of SOE and their shenanigans.
In all of their games, even the kiddie ones they've done something shifty which has impacted players, to drive their revenue.
They're a business, not as someone said a charity, a business to make money off the backs of their customers regardless of how loyal, how naive or even ones that were also shareholders.
Just reach out to the internet, learn about them shipping expansions not completed because "no one will get there in years" but people did get there, EQ content locusts were in the Plane of Time in a matter of weeks only it was not yet finished and hadn't even been pushed through development (but it was the "raid" basis for the expansion).
But again reach out to the internet, learn about the bait and switch that occurred around the Mustafar expansion and the N.G.E and ultimately led to hundreds of thousands leaving SWG for other games or a return to a life without games.
None of the games out there are in it for the happy feeling, warm fuzzy flowery end of the day. They're in it to excede margins laid out, not meet them and break even, or take a loss.
Your gambling analogy is funny but incorrectly compared to a drop rate since you aren't buying a ticket to be in the draw.
Try any game that has lockboxes where you have to rarely loot the method to open them, or buy that method from the cash shop.
If you really don't like what's happened, put your money (in this case virtual) where your mouth is, and quit.
*gasp*....NO!!! who woulda thought...SOE??!! wants money outta their games......I quit! Truly the only thing that soe did that was pathetic, was putting the racist al sharpton on their board. boycott sony!
Every mmo with a cash shop does this, f2p or p2p. With cosmetic cash shops they make sure that new "free" mounts or armors look inferior to what they would originally of designed.
Most devs just hide it better, so yes this is kinda obvious and nothing to be shocked about really.
But adjusting droprate in secret after the fact, to pull more revenue, no, I had no idea SoE was doing that.
You must be fairly new to the MMO world, or at least have never heard of SOE and their shenanigans.
In all of their games, even the kiddie ones they've done something shifty which has impacted players, to drive their revenue.
They're a business, not as someone said a charity, a business to make money off the backs of their customers regardless of how loyal, how naive or even ones that were also shareholders.
Just reach out to the internet, learn about them shipping expansions not completed because "no one will get there in years" but people did get there, EQ content locusts were in the Plane of Time in a matter of weeks only it was not yet finished and hadn't even been pushed through development (but it was the "raid" basis for the expansion).
But again reach out to the internet, learn about the bait and switch that occurred around the Mustafar expansion and the N.G.E and ultimately led to hundreds of thousands leaving SWG for other games or a return to a life without games.
None of the games out there are in it for the happy feeling, warm fuzzy flowery end of the day. They're in it to excede margins laid out, not meet them and break even, or take a loss.
Your gambling analogy is funny but incorrectly compared to a drop rate since you aren't buying a ticket to be in the draw.
Try any game that has lockboxes where you have to rarely loot the method to open them, or buy that method from the cash shop.
If you really don't like what's happened, put your money (in this case virtual) where your mouth is, and quit.
this pretty much sums it up,i learned long ago from EQ2 what kinda company SOE is and i wouldn't put it past any F2P game or any company period for that matter. they will do what it takes to keep a company afloat or to keep their job at the end of the day.which is why it falls on us to be the smart consumers and know when to say NO!
Originally posted by Perramas This is why I never play games with a cash shop. Just say no to micro transaction games if this bothers you. Ever single game with a cash shop will eventually do this if they havent already.
I'm a good 1k hours into warframe and i think i'm ready to toss that crap in the trash. I don't trust companies that do this f2p thing anymore, even if their shenannigans to incentivize patronage of the cash shop is barely noticeable, it will get worse as it has with warframe. "but they need to make moneeey!" yeah well they had the chance to milk me for up to 20 bucks a month, which i would have gladly done, instead of keeping me on the edge of my seat worrying about whether or not my drop rates and progression rates are going to be nerfed because they aren't making enough money.
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE. So y'know, personal boycott from now on on f2p companies. Won't touch a damn thing with that label slapped on it. Even if it reduces me to having to go outside and socialize for my entertainment.
Lurker here for years but very rarely post .Bigtime gamer for over 20 years .
Fundamentally Smedly is so wrong, we all (well most of us ) understand they have to make money but monitising the very core of the FUN part of a game is stupid on so many levels ,i have spent countless hours searching chests ,cuppords ,bosses,pots ,countless wipe nights , pvp, grinding , camping rare mobs the list goes on ,all to get great loot its fundamental to enjoying the game .
The second i feel i could just buy the stuff or even worse that my enemy has bought an advantage the soul of your game is gone, and no matter how much i love the beautiful world im in it wont be long until i loose heart in your game ,then its sad faces for us both.
Bill Maher put this well, "You can't call it coming out of the closet if the door was wide open, the closet was made of glass, and everyone could see you in there having gay sex."
In other words, it's not a secret it we all expected it, predicted it, counted on it happening, etc.
They've already stated that they're aiming their game more towards pay2win, rather than not.
Somehow SOE has managed to breach the Perfect World tier of greedy monetization, while skipping the Nexon tier completely. I'm disgusted, yet impressed at the same time. Like watching an escort do things with objects that you never thought possible.
"WTF, look give me that 3 dollar hamburger for free. I refuse to pay 3 dollars for a hamburger. Its only 3 dollars, you won't even notice it gone. Dude, mc donalds sucks. I'm going to your manager and complaining."
"Whats going on? All I wanted was a cheap laptop, at best buy they go for 50-75 dollars for a cheap one. But the same one at walmart is 100 dollars. And it says its 25% off. Wal mart is secretly adjusting the prices to get more money and promote their store. I'm going to go complain on the internet!"
MMO pay to player
*walks into wal mart*
"Sweet looking laptop, only 100 dollars. Great deal!"
sees 100 dollar laptop and notices its the same one from best buy and they had it for 75 dollars......so he price matches and leaves with the same laptop for the same price
I pretty much didn't understand how severely twisted MMORPG business was. They're just as bad (if not worse) than the mobile game companies.
We literally have to be wary of ANY game with a cash shop in it, because as a business it's their job to make the most from every revenue stream and they will manipulate game play to do it. It's disgusting. There's absolutely no integrity left in monetizing these games.
*FACEPALM*
The best option is NO cash shop at all because these developers/publishers can't be trusted. I get it now.
I was naive enough to believe these were just different business models that could be done properly. I was wrong. Sad times.
They way Trion bait and switched up Archeage is a perfect example of why gamers have to hold steady and avoid impulses to play "F2P" games. Even when you have the liquid cash to do whatever. It's bad gaming, it's bad for the genre. It sets bad precedents not because of P2W, but because these ASSHOLES are behind the scenes tweaking things that work already to make money. That's wrong.
"Wow this game is perfect... everything is great, but we need to make more money so lets lazily butcher paradise so we can report better numbers" -Cash Shop Game Developers
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I'm more surprised Smedley admitted it in such a rude upfront manner more than anything else. Other than that, this is nothing new, and as long as F2P games continue to be profitable (and, in most cases, MORE profitable than sub games), this type of thing will continue. As mentioned by someone else, what did you expect when the company controls both the drop rates and the cash shop? They're in it to make cash and thus will generally prioritize profits, which are sometimes mutually exclusive with what's good for the game.
...still find it ridonkulous and pathetic that people are so willing to play/pay competitive games that let you buy advantages in the cash shop anyways. Guess anything they can for their egos.
I pretty much didn't understand how severely twisted MMORPG business was. They're just as bad (if not worse) than the mobile game companies.
We literally have to be wary of ANY game with a cash shop in it, because as a business it's their job to make the most from every revenue stream and they will manipulate game play to do it. It's disgusting. There's absolutely no integrity left in monetizing these games.
My theory is that some devs saw how crazy people get when there is a cashshop (starting with those early p2w games with +x gear which needed a gem from the cash shop) and now think they can squeeze out more $s with it. I get that they have to make money, they don't get their food for free, but selling items which increase your dmg or stuff like that and can't be obtained in game feels bad to me. There are some games which don't sell special items and they do ok.
The part that worries me is that people seem not to care about it. At the moment Im not quite sure they don't care or if the option of "what? $5 more for that ? no thank you! I go to a different game" doesnt work because every game uses that method. Still hoping that the MMOs will change back to subs but that would mean they have to deliver good content updates or people leave so Im not counting on that. *tear* I will miss you AC and your monthly content updates.
Also saying that the drop rates were too high just when they release a new cash tier seems a tiny bit weird.
Comments
If you don't want to deal with how microtransactions impact games, then don't play games with microtransactions.
Complaining won't get you anywhere.
Exactly. And it is not like devs hide the fact that there are microtransactions? .. in fact they have to promote it loud and clear, because they want to entice the whales to buy.
It is really quite simple. Just play the game, and move on when you hit a pay wall. You already got some fun for free, there is nothing to complain about.
You have to be careful when buying entertainment. P2P games with a cash shop are like movies where you pay to get in, and then have to pay again to see the ending. F2P games are like being able to see a random 10 minutes of a movie, and then you have to pay the meter every 10 minutes to keep watching.
As an old fart, I refuse to change. I'm going to only play MMO's where I can buy the game, and pay a fixed fee to play the whole game. No F2P games for me, no P2P with a cash shop games. Alas, the market seems to be leaving me behind. This micro-monetized scheme seems to be taking over.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Trion also has a hand of this....
They are selling their soul and brand name for a few dollars / euro's.
Gues 2015 is the year of the cash shop.
Your subscription aint worth it anymore.
FUncom putting the FU in fun since 1993.
I see that you play a sub game.
TLDR: the economics of the F2P experience, from MMORPG's to mobile gaming, is based on what economists believed to be a theoretical construct. Turns out ignorant, and I mean that only to indicate lack of knowledge, and compulsive humans are happy to engage in such a constructed market. Mind you I don't. If you want to understand how it works, Google up "Perfectly Price Discriminating Monopolies".
As far as the ethics of such, we economists don't evaluate such.
Let it suffice that we assume that the participants are willing and knowledgeable. 
You must be fairly new to the MMO world, or at least have never heard of SOE and their shenanigans.
In all of their games, even the kiddie ones they've done something shifty which has impacted players, to drive their revenue.
They're a business, not as someone said a charity, a business to make money off the backs of their customers regardless of how loyal, how naive or even ones that were also shareholders.
Just reach out to the internet, learn about them shipping expansions not completed because "no one will get there in years" but people did get there, EQ content locusts were in the Plane of Time in a matter of weeks only it was not yet finished and hadn't even been pushed through development (but it was the "raid" basis for the expansion).
But again reach out to the internet, learn about the bait and switch that occurred around the Mustafar expansion and the N.G.E and ultimately led to hundreds of thousands leaving SWG for other games or a return to a life without games.
None of the games out there are in it for the happy feeling, warm fuzzy flowery end of the day. They're in it to excede margins laid out, not meet them and break even, or take a loss.
Your gambling analogy is funny but incorrectly compared to a drop rate since you aren't buying a ticket to be in the draw.
Try any game that has lockboxes where you have to rarely loot the method to open them, or buy that method from the cash shop.
If you really don't like what's happened, put your money (in this case virtual) where your mouth is, and quit.
Every mmo with a cash shop does this, f2p or p2p. With cosmetic cash shops they make sure that new "free" mounts or armors look inferior to what they would originally of designed.
Most devs just hide it better, so yes this is kinda obvious and nothing to be shocked about really.
this pretty much sums it up,i learned long ago from EQ2 what kinda company SOE is and i wouldn't put it past any F2P game or any company period for that matter. they will do what it takes to keep a company afloat or to keep their job at the end of the day.which is why it falls on us to be the smart consumers and know when to say NO!
I'm a good 1k hours into warframe and i think i'm ready to toss that crap in the trash. I don't trust companies that do this f2p thing anymore, even if their shenannigans to incentivize patronage of the cash shop is barely noticeable, it will get worse as it has with warframe. "but they need to make moneeey!" yeah well they had the chance to milk me for up to 20 bucks a month, which i would have gladly done, instead of keeping me on the edge of my seat worrying about whether or not my drop rates and progression rates are going to be nerfed because they aren't making enough money.
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE. So y'know, personal boycott from now on on f2p companies. Won't touch a damn thing with that label slapped on it. Even if it reduces me to having to go outside and socialize for my entertainment.
Happy newyear all.
Lurker here for years but very rarely post .Bigtime gamer for over 20 years .
Fundamentally Smedly is so wrong, we all (well most of us ) understand they have to make money but monitising the very core of the FUN part of a game is stupid on so many levels ,i have spent countless hours searching chests ,cuppords ,bosses,pots ,countless wipe nights , pvp, grinding , camping rare mobs the list goes on ,all to get great loot its fundamental to enjoying the game .
The second i feel i could just buy the stuff or even worse that my enemy has bought an advantage the soul of your game is gone, and no matter how much i love the beautiful world im in it wont be long until i loose heart in your game ,then its sad faces for us both.
#THINK LIKE A GAMER SOE.
It's a pure PvP game. Consumable boosts, much less TIERED consumable boosts that tend towards a cash shop advantage, shouldn't be a thing at all.
That's why you pick games with mostly cosmetic items in the shops.
Bill Maher put this well, "You can't call it coming out of the closet if the door was wide open, the closet was made of glass, and everyone could see you in there having gay sex."
In other words, it's not a secret it we all expected it, predicted it, counted on it happening, etc.
Smedley being greedy? Greed is his middle name!
But seriously the game is garbage.
They've already stated that they're aiming their game more towards pay2win, rather than not.
Somehow SOE has managed to breach the Perfect World tier of greedy monetization, while skipping the Nexon tier completely. I'm disgusted, yet impressed at the same time. Like watching an escort do things with objects that you never thought possible.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
MMO free to player #3
*walks into walmart*
sees 100 dollar laptop and notices its the same one from best buy and they had it for 75 dollars......so he price matches and leaves with the same laptop for the same price
I pretty much didn't understand how severely twisted MMORPG business was. They're just as bad (if not worse) than the mobile game companies.
We literally have to be wary of ANY game with a cash shop in it, because as a business it's their job to make the most from every revenue stream and they will manipulate game play to do it. It's disgusting. There's absolutely no integrity left in monetizing these games.
*FACEPALM*
The best option is NO cash shop at all because these developers/publishers can't be trusted. I get it now.
I was naive enough to believe these were just different business models that could be done properly. I was wrong. Sad times.
They way Trion bait and switched up Archeage is a perfect example of why gamers have to hold steady and avoid impulses to play "F2P" games. Even when you have the liquid cash to do whatever. It's bad gaming, it's bad for the genre. It sets bad precedents not because of P2W, but because these ASSHOLES are behind the scenes tweaking things that work already to make money. That's wrong.
"Wow this game is perfect... everything is great, but we need to make more money so lets lazily butcher paradise so we can report better numbers" -Cash Shop Game Developers
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm more surprised Smedley admitted it in such a rude upfront manner more than anything else. Other than that, this is nothing new, and as long as F2P games continue to be profitable (and, in most cases, MORE profitable than sub games), this type of thing will continue. As mentioned by someone else, what did you expect when the company controls both the drop rates and the cash shop? They're in it to make cash and thus will generally prioritize profits, which are sometimes mutually exclusive with what's good for the game.
...still find it ridonkulous and pathetic that people are so willing to play/pay competitive games that let you buy advantages in the cash shop anyways. Guess anything they can for their egos.
My theory is that some devs saw how crazy people get when there is a cashshop (starting with those early p2w games with +x gear which needed a gem from the cash shop) and now think they can squeeze out more $s with it. I get that they have to make money, they don't get their food for free, but selling items which increase your dmg or stuff like that and can't be obtained in game feels bad to me. There are some games which don't sell special items and they do ok.
The part that worries me is that people seem not to care about it. At the moment Im not quite sure they don't care or if the option of "what? $5 more for that ? no thank you! I go to a different game" doesnt work because every game uses that method. Still hoping that the MMOs will change back to subs but that would mean they have to deliver good content updates or people leave so Im not counting on that. *tear* I will miss you AC and your monthly content updates.
Also saying that the drop rates were too high just when they release a new cash tier seems a tiny bit weird.