I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
While it is their "right", it certainly is not "right to let them do so.
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, this is one of those situations.
And how.
A little bit of shelter can go a long way in a case such as this.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think this is nearly as bad as some of the stuff that some companies do. Rappelz under GPotato, I have little doubt tame rate percentages where some how being throttled so to speak. When I played I didn't meat many that thought they weren't being messed with. I haven't played in a long time and it's under new ownership. Death Tyrants were the best pet and they just introduced pet combining when i last played.
That game should have been flooded even with top tier pets due to all the sales they had revolving around pet cards. It wasn't. Sure more slowly showed up but it definitely seemed like tame success rates would get throttled to slow market saturation down. Matter of fact GPotato had a lot to fear from market saturation. I forget what it was but for awhile the economy got completely ruined. Isk was basically worthless.
Same thing happened with Hawks when they were the top pets. Only when the next big thing came out did it seem like rates were increased on them. Orcs even, Same thing. They based their cast shop around pet card sales and people spend lots to support their hobby.
I think that there should be consumer protection for any cash shop that implements a RNG style model. I don't trust companies to be completely on the up and up. I trust some more than others but I think they all likely either do it or have given it serious consideration.
It should be illegal to pay $200 and end up with nothing basically. Who here would pay $200 for a chance at a single item? If that's say broken up over the course of the month into smaller amounts who would then? Whales are few and far between. it's the average player that wants a given item that fuels this. "oh it's just $10 here $10 there." Look at the prioces involved with mobile gaming. Majority of that stuff is RNG and almost every game has a $99.99 package that really doesn't give a person much in most cases.
If I like a game I will support it at this point. If I do not, I will not. Same for business models. I enjoygaming. It's my hobby. My drag cars cost me a hell of a lot more for hobby if I want to compare this hobby to others.
To every person who I opposed when discussing F2P vs P2P, I apologize. I was absolutely wrong. F2P makes the developers and publishers into classless scumbags, because they don't know of ANY other way to generate revenue without disrupting gameplay. I fucking hate it. F2P games that are monetized with integrity is a holy grail that doesn't exist.
I'd rather pay a monthly fee and have all features available to me upfront no scams. When developers "tweak" games to "make money" it's a bad precedent. My only beef with subscriptions is the developers never have a content cycle that justifies the box + sub rate. Still I'd rather deal with that than be in a constant battle like I'm playing some cheap evil mobile app.
Right now I'm absolutely disgusted by Trion w/ Archeage. It worked great in Alpha, but they needed to make money so even subscribed Patrons are in this slow bleed of labor that forces them to have to buy labor pots and exploit the game.
I will not stand for that mess anymore. F2P will never be done correctly because these devs have the integrity of heroin addicts. They'll do anything.
I don't think this is nearly as bad as some of the stuff that some companies do. Rappelz under GPotato, I have little doubt tame rate percentages where some how being throttled so to speak. When I played I didn't meat many that thought they weren't being messed with. I haven't played in a long time and it's under new ownership. Death Tyrants were the best pet and they just introduced pet combining when i last played.
That game should have been flooded even with top tier pets due to all the sales they had revolving around pet cards. It wasn't. Sure more slowly showed up but it definitely seemed like tame success rates would get throttled to slow market saturation down. Matter of fact GPotato had a lot to fear from market saturation. I forget what it was but for awhile the economy got completely ruined. Isk was basically worthless.
Same thing happened with Hawks when they were the top pets. Only when the next big thing came out did it seem like rates were increased on them. Orcs even, Same thing. They based their cast shop around pet card sales and people spend lots to support their hobby.
I think that there should be consumer protection for any cash shop that implements a RNG style model. I don't trust companies to be completely on the up and up. I trust some more than others but I think they all likely either do it or have given it serious consideration.
It should be illegal to pay $200 and end up with nothing basically. Who here would pay $200 for a chance at a single item? If that's say broken up over the course of the month into smaller amounts who would then? Whales are few and far between. it's the average player that wants a given item that fuels this. "oh it's just $10 here $10 there." Look at the prioces involved with mobile gaming. Majority of that stuff is RNG and almost every game has a $99.99 package that really doesn't give a person much in most cases.
If I like a game I will support it at this point. If I do not, I will not. Same for business models. I enjoygaming. It's my hobby. My drag cars cost me a hell of a lot more for hobby if I want to compare this hobby to others.
Who would pay $200...crap load that fill the casinos in Vegas every day.
I don't think this is nearly as bad as some of the stuff that some companies do. Rappelz under GPotato, I have little doubt tame rate percentages where some how being throttled so to speak. When I played I didn't meat many that thought they weren't being messed with. I haven't played in a long time and it's under new ownership. Death Tyrants were the best pet and they just introduced pet combining when i last played.
That game should have been flooded even with top tier pets due to all the sales they had revolving around pet cards. It wasn't. Sure more slowly showed up but it definitely seemed like tame success rates would get throttled to slow market saturation down. Matter of fact GPotato had a lot to fear from market saturation. I forget what it was but for awhile the economy got completely ruined. Isk was basically worthless.
Same thing happened with Hawks when they were the top pets. Only when the next big thing came out did it seem like rates were increased on them. Orcs even, Same thing. They based their cast shop around pet card sales and people spend lots to support their hobby.
I think that there should be consumer protection for any cash shop that implements a RNG style model. I don't trust companies to be completely on the up and up. I trust some more than others but I think they all likely either do it or have given it serious consideration.
It should be illegal to pay $200 and end up with nothing basically. Who here would pay $200 for a chance at a single item? If that's say broken up over the course of the month into smaller amounts who would then? Whales are few and far between. it's the average player that wants a given item that fuels this. "oh it's just $10 here $10 there." Look at the prioces involved with mobile gaming. Majority of that stuff is RNG and almost every game has a $99.99 package that really doesn't give a person much in most cases.
If I like a game I will support it at this point. If I do not, I will not. Same for business models. I enjoygaming. It's my hobby. My drag cars cost me a hell of a lot more for hobby if I want to compare this hobby to others.
Who would pay $200...crap load that fill the casinos in Vegas every day.
I bet fewer than you think pay that much in one go regularly. Instead if you look at cash shop models they are designed to slowly take your money usually $20, $30 here and there over say a month. Some RNG models are done better than others. I knew people in Rappelz who dropped $100's of dollars in one go. I knew far more who did it regularly in smaller amounts who spent that and more over a period of time.
OP, have you ever played planetside 2? If you have you'd know it has one of the most generous f2p models of any f2p game out there. They have a thin line to tread with a game like planetside because the gameplay relies 100% on player population, there are zero pve mobs in the game. Their only mistake here was making it a little too generous to begin with, because with this new generation of entitlement it's very easy to give players things, but very difficult to take them away, even if it makes sense to. It looks like you're just trying to hop on the burn the cash shop wagon that's been making the rounds lately, but you have no real argument and in this case they made the right decision.
added gif someone replied with in another thread, thought it was funny
personally I don't get people defending this, luckily I don't have to deal with this kind of stuff in FFXIV
It's simple math. The drop rates and items were too good and were hampering sales. While I prefer P2P like FFXIV and WoW over F2P, it's pretty clear F2P is the way of the future.
Really? Cause blizzard and 10 million people are proving you 100% wrong.
You mean the same Blizzard that is selling mounts for $20-$30 dollars a pop in their cash shop. Yup.... They are sure proving him wrong.
Lurker here for years but very rarely post .Bigtime gamer for over 20 years .
Fundamentally Smedly is so wrong, we all (well most of us ) understand they have to make money but monitising the very core of the FUN part of a game is stupid on so many levels ,i have spent countless hours searching chests ,cuppords ,bosses,pots ,countless wipe nights , pvp, grinding , camping rare mobs the list goes on ,all to get great loot its fundamental to enjoying the game .
The second i feel i could just buy the stuff or even worse that my enemy has bought an advantage the soul of your game is gone, and no matter how much i love the beautiful world im in it wont be long until i loose heart in your game ,then its sad faces for us both.
I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
Whales have helped screw up how we pay for our gaming time; of course people care.
wow .. what an entitlement attitude here ...
It is not yours. Devs made a product .. they can charge whatever they like. You do not have to play it. It is a free world. They have no obligation to give you (or anyone) the whole game for $15 a month.
In fact, if they can sell a $5000 virtual sword, and there is actually someone dumb enough to buy it, more power to them.
and the whales have no obligation to pay/play as you wish. It is not "your" game they are "screwing up" anyway. If the dev welcome them with open arms, and they give out their $$$ willingly to the dev, what is the problem here?
I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
While it is their "right", it certainly is not "right to let them do so.
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, this is one of those situations.
This is exactly the same discussion with alcohol. Surely if you can prove a particular person who are addicted and need help, feel free to guide him to AA.
But you are going to prevent everyone to buy a drink occasionally? Why do you have the right to prevent an adult who make his own money to spend it on anything he wants? You are ONLY using the "protect them from themselves" excuse because you don't like how devs change their games to cater to whales. New flash, devs have no obligation to make games you like, or sell you the whole game for $15 a month. It is a free world. You don't have to play their games. There are other entertainment out there.
If i want to buy a $500 bottle of wine every month, are you going to say that i am a wine whale, and I need to "protected from myself"?
Umm protip any f2p mmorpg that has a cash shop item that boosts drop rates is of course going to mess with it so they can maximize profits. Why is this surprizing? they all do it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
While it is their "right", it certainly is not "right to let them do so.
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, this is one of those situations.
This is exactly the same discussion with alcohol. Surely if you can prove a particular person who are addicted and need help, feel free to guide him to AA.
But you are going to prevent everyone to buy a drink occasionally? Why do you have the right to prevent an adult who make his own money to spend it on anything he wants? You are ONLY using the "protect them from themselves" excuse because you don't like how devs change their games to cater to whales. New flash, devs have no obligation to make games you like, or sell you the whole game for $15 a month. It is a free world. You don't have to play their games. There are other entertainment out there.
If i want to buy a $500 bottle of wine every month, are you going to say that i am a wine whale, and I need to "protected from myself"?
Your deal with wine has nothing to do with the discussion. We're talking mere games here.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
While it is their "right", it certainly is not "right to let them do so.
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, this is one of those situations.
This is exactly the same discussion with alcohol. Surely if you can prove a particular person who are addicted and need help, feel free to guide him to AA.
But you are going to prevent everyone to buy a drink occasionally? Why do you have the right to prevent an adult who make his own money to spend it on anything he wants? You are ONLY using the "protect them from themselves" excuse because you don't like how devs change their games to cater to whales. New flash, devs have no obligation to make games you like, or sell you the whole game for $15 a month. It is a free world. You don't have to play their games. There are other entertainment out there.
If i want to buy a $500 bottle of wine every month, are you going to say that i am a wine whale, and I need to "protected from myself"?
Well said, I work at a Casino and it's pretty much the same thing. I can honestly say the vast majority of our patrons are spending money they can afford to spend on something that provides them entertainment. Do I see people who are maxing out their credit cards and scraping up every penny they have chasing a big win? Absolutely, but it's not our fault for providing that opportunity anymore than it is a liquor store selling booze to a drunk.
I will say we do however have literature available directing people to where they can get help. Though it is not our place to tell someone they have a problem.
It is most disconcerting that the payout of a Vegas slot machine is more legit than an MMO.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Protecting people from themselves is the first step to fascism, the contention authority is only doing right by the public by lambasting, censoring or outright destroying free thought, free choice and free market. Protecting people from themselves is also a pretty big job, because if they're unwise enough to make one bad decision, surely they'll make more bad decisions. If that's your crusade, you'd better get off the internet, get out on the streets and get to it...
i dont know how useful or useless implants are since i stopped playing shortly after they were introduced. I can only say that on one hand it is true that the company needs to make money. On the other hand, that is exactly the problem with F2P, they use the excuse of "trying to make money" to justify selling advantages.
I believe that if a company is not confident enough that they can profit from a F2P model using clean practices, then they should NOT embrace F2P. I would rather purchase an mmo and buy dlc, expansions, skins, and boosts and not worry about ivesting in a game that will later on get ruined by greed. This is more of a general comment, not specific to PS2 since i already said i havent tried the implants to give an opinion on them.
I have my doubts that most "whales" in F2P MMO are actually rich people. If I was rich I would be driving around in a Ferrari and going on holidays, not play MMO.
They're regular people spending tons of cash on games. What boggles my mind is, why? Why not spend those hundreds of dollars on a PS4 and the tens of games you could buy with them instead of a fake sword in a game.
Why do you care? It is their money? If they want to flush it down the toilet, it is their right.
While it is their "right", it certainly is not "right to let them do so.
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, this is one of those situations.
This is exactly the same discussion with alcohol. Surely if you can prove a particular person who are addicted and need help, feel free to guide him to AA.
But you are going to prevent everyone to buy a drink occasionally? Why do you have the right to prevent an adult who make his own money to spend it on anything he wants? You are ONLY using the "protect them from themselves" excuse because you don't like how devs change their games to cater to whales. New flash, devs have no obligation to make games you like, or sell you the whole game for $15 a month. It is a free world. You don't have to play their games. There are other entertainment out there.
If i want to buy a $500 bottle of wine every month, are you going to say that i am a wine whale, and I need to "protected from myself"?
Your deal with wine has nothing to do with the discussion. We're talking mere games here.
How about i replace that with "If I want to spend $500 on candy crush every month, are you going to say that I am a mobile game whale, and I need to be "protected from myself"?
Protecting people from themselves is the first step to fascism, the contention authority is only doing right by the public by lambasting, censoring or outright destroying free thought, free choice and free market. Protecting people from themselves is also a pretty big job, because if they're unwise enough to make one bad decision, surely they'll make more bad decisions. If that's your crusade, you'd better get off the internet, get out on the streets and get to it...
.. or shut up.
This is exactly right.
In a free market, I don't see a reason to control business models to sell games. Not liking a business model is 100% fine .. and you can choose not to participate. But one should not have the power to dictate how others spend their money on entertainment.
I don't think this is nearly as bad as some of the stuff that some companies do. Rappelz under GPotato, I have little doubt tame rate percentages where some how being throttled so to speak. When I played I didn't meat many that thought they weren't being messed with. I haven't played in a long time and it's under new ownership. Death Tyrants were the best pet and they just introduced pet combining when i last played.
That game should have been flooded even with top tier pets due to all the sales they had revolving around pet cards. It wasn't. Sure more slowly showed up but it definitely seemed like tame success rates would get throttled to slow market saturation down. Matter of fact GPotato had a lot to fear from market saturation. I forget what it was but for awhile the economy got completely ruined. Isk was basically worthless.
Same thing happened with Hawks when they were the top pets. Only when the next big thing came out did it seem like rates were increased on them. Orcs even, Same thing. They based their cast shop around pet card sales and people spend lots to support their hobby.
I think that there should be consumer protection for any cash shop that implements a RNG style model. I don't trust companies to be completely on the up and up. I trust some more than others but I think they all likely either do it or have given it serious consideration.
It should be illegal to pay $200 and end up with nothing basically. Who here would pay $200 for a chance at a single item? If that's say broken up over the course of the month into smaller amounts who would then? Whales are few and far between. it's the average player that wants a given item that fuels this. "oh it's just $10 here $10 there." Look at the prioces involved with mobile gaming. Majority of that stuff is RNG and almost every game has a $99.99 package that really doesn't give a person much in most cases.
If I like a game I will support it at this point. If I do not, I will not. Same for business models. I enjoygaming. It's my hobby. My drag cars cost me a hell of a lot more for hobby if I want to compare this hobby to others.
Who would pay $200...crap load that fill the casinos in Vegas every day.
I bet fewer than you think pay that much in one go regularly. Instead if you look at cash shop models they are designed to slowly take your money usually $20, $30 here and there over say a month. Some RNG models are done better than others. I knew people in Rappelz who dropped $100's of dollars in one go. I knew far more who did it regularly in smaller amounts who spent that and more over a period of time.
Casinos make billions a year nickel and diming. They make so much off people giving them money they give free drinks, discount rooms, cheap air fare, virtually free food, they can afford million dollar performers, and build billion dollar buildings to house themselves. I highly doubt a cheap game can compete with the power casinos have over people to give them their money. People will go for a weekend and lose thousands. Many will go with 500 in their pocket for the weekend and come home with nothing. Online beting on football making crazy money. Lotteries make craploads with people buying $5 tickets ever month. Scratch offs for a $1 are doing great.
Never underestimate the ability of humans to give their money away for the prospect of getting something better. Let's Make A Deal game show was all about 70% of people will not take the one in the hand, but instead go for the "two" in the bush. Humans believe in luck, fate, and "it is my turn". These factors are part of human nature.
SoE is a terrible company. This policy doesn't surprise me, nor does it change my already formed opinion of them. They just don't have a finger on the pulse of gaming and never really have. Even when they had good games in their catalogue, they found a way to make them much worse in attempt to make more money. When they have made those decisions, they have usually made a lot less money because they didn't draw in enough new players to replace the old players that quit.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 It is most disconcerting that the payout of a Vegas slot machine is more legit than an MMO.
Indeed, but it wasn't always that way.
Modern casino's are subject to laws, regulations and audits. Eventually, MMO's will be regulated as well, because many of the Cash Shop items and monetization schemes are becoming indistinguishable from "online gaming" (i.e. gambling). Once the industry becomes big enough to be considered a worthwhile target for new taxes, the regulations will inevitably follow.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 It is most disconcerting that the payout of a Vegas slot machine is more legit than an MMO.
Indeed, but it wasn't always that way.
Modern casino's are subject to laws, regulations and audits. Eventually, MMO's will be regulated as well, because many of the Cash Shop items and monetization schemes are becoming indistinguishable from "online gaming" (i.e. gambling). Once the industry becomes big enough to be considered a worthwhile target for new taxes, the regulations will inevitably follow.
Current gambling laws in the US would have to change cause they are based around getting something with a money value attached to it for the real world. Think games still fall under you are pay the money for a service that holds no value outside the game.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 It is most disconcerting that the payout of a Vegas slot machine is more legit than an MMO.
Indeed, but it wasn't always that way.
Modern casino's are subject to laws, regulations and audits. Eventually, MMO's will be regulated as well, because many of the Cash Shop items and monetization schemes are becoming indistinguishable from "online gaming" (i.e. gambling). Once the industry becomes big enough to be considered a worthwhile target for new taxes, the regulations will inevitably follow.
Current gambling laws in the US would have to change cause they are based around getting something with a money value attached to it for the real world. Think games still fall under you are pay the money for a service that holds no value outside the game.
Exactly.. That's why I have little doubt some companies manipulate RNG in their cash shops. It's not even a grey area. It should be though.
Comments
And how.
A little bit of shelter can go a long way in a case such as this.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think this is nearly as bad as some of the stuff that some companies do. Rappelz under GPotato, I have little doubt tame rate percentages where some how being throttled so to speak. When I played I didn't meat many that thought they weren't being messed with. I haven't played in a long time and it's under new ownership. Death Tyrants were the best pet and they just introduced pet combining when i last played.
That game should have been flooded even with top tier pets due to all the sales they had revolving around pet cards. It wasn't. Sure more slowly showed up but it definitely seemed like tame success rates would get throttled to slow market saturation down. Matter of fact GPotato had a lot to fear from market saturation. I forget what it was but for awhile the economy got completely ruined. Isk was basically worthless.
Same thing happened with Hawks when they were the top pets. Only when the next big thing came out did it seem like rates were increased on them. Orcs even, Same thing. They based their cast shop around pet card sales and people spend lots to support their hobby.
I think that there should be consumer protection for any cash shop that implements a RNG style model. I don't trust companies to be completely on the up and up. I trust some more than others but I think they all likely either do it or have given it serious consideration.
It should be illegal to pay $200 and end up with nothing basically. Who here would pay $200 for a chance at a single item? If that's say broken up over the course of the month into smaller amounts who would then? Whales are few and far between. it's the average player that wants a given item that fuels this. "oh it's just $10 here $10 there." Look at the prioces involved with mobile gaming. Majority of that stuff is RNG and almost every game has a $99.99 package that really doesn't give a person much in most cases.
If I like a game I will support it at this point. If I do not, I will not. Same for business models. I enjoygaming. It's my hobby. My drag cars cost me a hell of a lot more for hobby if I want to compare this hobby to others.
Agree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I'm neither surprised nor shocked.
All F2P games do this, why is anyone even writing about it ? Must be a slow news week...
Who would pay $200...crap load that fill the casinos in Vegas every day.
I bet fewer than you think pay that much in one go regularly. Instead if you look at cash shop models they are designed to slowly take your money usually $20, $30 here and there over say a month. Some RNG models are done better than others. I knew people in Rappelz who dropped $100's of dollars in one go. I knew far more who did it regularly in smaller amounts who spent that and more over a period of time.
You mean the same Blizzard that is selling mounts for $20-$30 dollars a pop in their cash shop. Yup.... They are sure proving him wrong.
You don't play many mmos do you?
I predict SoE gets shut down in 2015. They are costing Sony way too much losses.
The reason you hear no updates about EQNext is because SoE has no money anymore.
wow .. what an entitlement attitude here ...
It is not yours. Devs made a product .. they can charge whatever they like. You do not have to play it. It is a free world. They have no obligation to give you (or anyone) the whole game for $15 a month.
In fact, if they can sell a $5000 virtual sword, and there is actually someone dumb enough to buy it, more power to them.
and the whales have no obligation to pay/play as you wish. It is not "your" game they are "screwing up" anyway. If the dev welcome them with open arms, and they give out their $$$ willingly to the dev, what is the problem here?
This is exactly the same discussion with alcohol. Surely if you can prove a particular person who are addicted and need help, feel free to guide him to AA.
But you are going to prevent everyone to buy a drink occasionally? Why do you have the right to prevent an adult who make his own money to spend it on anything he wants? You are ONLY using the "protect them from themselves" excuse because you don't like how devs change their games to cater to whales. New flash, devs have no obligation to make games you like, or sell you the whole game for $15 a month. It is a free world. You don't have to play their games. There are other entertainment out there.
If i want to buy a $500 bottle of wine every month, are you going to say that i am a wine whale, and I need to "protected from myself"?
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Your deal with wine has nothing to do with the discussion. We're talking mere games here.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Well said, I work at a Casino and it's pretty much the same thing. I can honestly say the vast majority of our patrons are spending money they can afford to spend on something that provides them entertainment. Do I see people who are maxing out their credit cards and scraping up every penny they have chasing a big win? Absolutely, but it's not our fault for providing that opportunity anymore than it is a liquor store selling booze to a drunk.
I will say we do however have literature available directing people to where they can get help. Though it is not our place to tell someone they have a problem.
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Protecting people from themselves is the first step to fascism, the contention authority is only doing right by the public by lambasting, censoring or outright destroying free thought, free choice and free market. Protecting people from themselves is also a pretty big job, because if they're unwise enough to make one bad decision, surely they'll make more bad decisions. If that's your crusade, you'd better get off the internet, get out on the streets and get to it...
.. or shut up.
i dont know how useful or useless implants are since i stopped playing shortly after they were introduced. I can only say that on one hand it is true that the company needs to make money. On the other hand, that is exactly the problem with F2P, they use the excuse of "trying to make money" to justify selling advantages.
I believe that if a company is not confident enough that they can profit from a F2P model using clean practices, then they should NOT embrace F2P. I would rather purchase an mmo and buy dlc, expansions, skins, and boosts and not worry about ivesting in a game that will later on get ruined by greed. This is more of a general comment, not specific to PS2 since i already said i havent tried the implants to give an opinion on them.
How about i replace that with "If I want to spend $500 on candy crush every month, are you going to say that I am a mobile game whale, and I need to be "protected from myself"?
This is exactly right.
In a free market, I don't see a reason to control business models to sell games. Not liking a business model is 100% fine .. and you can choose not to participate. But one should not have the power to dictate how others spend their money on entertainment.
Casinos make billions a year nickel and diming. They make so much off people giving them money they give free drinks, discount rooms, cheap air fare, virtually free food, they can afford million dollar performers, and build billion dollar buildings to house themselves. I highly doubt a cheap game can compete with the power casinos have over people to give them their money. People will go for a weekend and lose thousands. Many will go with 500 in their pocket for the weekend and come home with nothing. Online beting on football making crazy money. Lotteries make craploads with people buying $5 tickets ever month. Scratch offs for a $1 are doing great.
Never underestimate the ability of humans to give their money away for the prospect of getting something better. Let's Make A Deal game show was all about 70% of people will not take the one in the hand, but instead go for the "two" in the bush. Humans believe in luck, fate, and "it is my turn". These factors are part of human nature.
Indeed, but it wasn't always that way.
Modern casino's are subject to laws, regulations and audits. Eventually, MMO's will be regulated as well, because many of the Cash Shop items and monetization schemes are becoming indistinguishable from "online gaming" (i.e. gambling). Once the industry becomes big enough to be considered a worthwhile target for new taxes, the regulations will inevitably follow.
Current gambling laws in the US would have to change cause they are based around getting something with a money value attached to it for the real world. Think games still fall under you are pay the money for a service that holds no value outside the game.
Exactly.. That's why I have little doubt some companies manipulate RNG in their cash shops. It's not even a grey area. It should be though.