It's money I earned and if I want to put that money in the hands of a developer to help fund a game then I have every right to do it. No one is forcing me to do it.
That being said, I have only done it for certain games and will not do it for big companies. They have their money.
If you do not like the idea then just wait for the game to be released.
No one is FORCING you to buy into early access.
I don't see the problem with pre-ordering. I see what the premise of the game is about and through videos or interviews I make a decision if I want to pre-order or not. Most of the time the cost is $60. Big deal. I have been burnt in the past and will get burnt again but the amount of money is small. Now when it comes to my truck, I make sure I know what needs to be done, who is doing it and if they are good at it and such because that starts to become big money. Games on the other hand is small money.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I am pretty sick of early access. You cannot even get a deal anymore on early access because they rape the first ones to support them then months later will sell the same product for 1/3 of what you got it for. I am done paying people to test their shit for them.
Worst new trend....charging people to alpha test a game that is going to be free to play.
Actually, there are deals to be had, but I mostly agree with you. You know what, if companies really want to model their Crowdfunding after a game, they should really look at Firefall. Some might call it P2W, but it carried inherent value, and it really wasn't all that expensive.
They did a couple things really well. First, most games will make you spend, say, $20 and then give you a digital, in-game item + Early Access, and then call it a $100 value. Firefall charged you $20 and you got $20 of in-game currency to spend. That's not implied value, that's actual value. Whether or not you ever play the game is another thing, but you're getting your moneys worth right there. Secondly, and here's where the P2W crowd jumps on-board, is a permanent XP bonus ranging from 5%-15%. Like Damn! Just damn! Again, that's real value, and that value is incremental based on how much you actually play and how much you value your time. Some of the higher packages offered permanent Squad XP Bonuses, too, giving more value, and also mounts (which are simply time savers as well). Plus, you got a bunch of the BS Digital stuff, but at least there are some items with teeth that actually make the program compelling to buy into. THAT'S what companies should be doing, in my opinion.
Have at it, I did the pay for alpha with dayz.... I don't think it will ever get much better than it's alpha state, so that was my one shot at paying for alpha and I am not satisfied... I am not satisfied with a lot of releases either full of bugs and server problems. If you think about it though, take eso for example, you buy it and pay a year of sub, then it goes f2p, by the time it's free, that's when it's finally in a fun playable stable state. The risk is.... Maybe just maybe the game will become obsolete while it's still in alpha.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I have no problem with early access. I know what i am getting into.
Yes you are screwing over your fellow gamer and doing nothing to help the cause.
These devs should put the product out there FIRST,then gamer's decide if iti's worth paying to get into.You ever go shopping with a blindfold on,no of course not,matter of fact if they refused to let you see the product first,you would get angry and tell them where to stick it.
I don't remember a car salesman charging anyone to test drive a car and it is worth a ton more to each individual than a game is.It costs a developer maybe 20 cents a day to let a gamer in,a car dealer is taking a huge insurance risk if that test drive goes wrong.
Seems developers THINK allowing someone to login over the airwaves before anyone is worth money...well it is not.
The impatient people no question have a mind set about RACING and think they need to get something FIRST,ridiculous mind set to pay up front to get in before anyone else.To me it is like going to the movies and paying extra to move up to the front of the line,other normal people in the line would see that and just shake their head and talk all sorts of stuff about those people.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The best you can do is be the change you want to see. I refuse to pay for something on kickstarter, early access on steam, paid beta, or whatever else. If you don't have a complete product, I'm not buying anything. I feel like companies have gotten this idea that consumers can be venture capitalists, maybe inspired by some misguided notion democratizing game development, but I don't support that. I'm not a venture capitalist (sadly), I'm a middle class guy with a budget. I want that money to be well spent. Fanciful ideas need not apply.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I have no problem with early access. I know what i am getting into.
Yes you are screwing over your fellow gamer and doing nothing to help the cause.
These devs should put the product out there FIRST,then gamer's decide if iti's worth paying to get into.You ever go shopping with a blindfold on,no of course not,matter of fact if they refused to let you see the product first,you would get angry and tell them where to stick it.
I don't remember a car salesman charging anyone to test drive a car and it is worth a ton more to each individual than a game is.It costs a developer maybe 20 cents a day to let a gamer in,a car dealer is taking a huge insurance risk if that test drive goes wrong.
Seems developers THINK allowing someone to login over the airwaves before anyone is worth money...well it is not.
The impatient people no question have a mind set about RACING and think they need to get something FIRST,ridiculous mind set to pay up front to get in before anyone else.To me it is like going to the movies and paying extra to move up to the front of the line,other normal people in the line would see that and just shake their head and talk all sorts of stuff about those people.
I can be an informed consumer with EA titles just by doing some research. There are always plenty of videos, streams and forum posts about the current state of the titles and how active the dev team is in regards to the progress and future of the product.
The problem with EA titles however can be when they become quick cash grabs for developers who never intend to finish the game or just lose interest in the project all together.
My personal opinion is that early access is a very big problem.
It used to be a nice feature to play a game early and buy it at a discount, however this system has been abused and perverted beyond its original purpose by big name companies whose goals are big business, not good games.
For example, look at Archage, I avoided this game like the plague as soon as I saw their founder packages for over 100$. Now think back to the original purpose of the Early Access, it is to provide early access, and to buy the game at a discounted price, Archage is a F2P game, so why would you charge for Early Access at all? and over 100s of $? Obviously a money grab and gave me the impression the game was going to be terrible item shopped or a terrible over advertised cash grab game.
Finally I think the biggest problem is some of the gaming community, mostly the gamers who are desperate for a new MMORPG and people from the "WoW Killer" generation. These people are so desperate for the next big new western MMORPG that they will fall for these scams in hopes of getting in that big MMORPG before any one else and fall for these scams. Not to mention they are so hopeful for the next MMORPG they will over-hype it, trying to get friends and other gamers to all get on board thinking it will help the game, when all you're really doing is lining the pockets of big corporation businesses men who actually don't care about gaming and don't care about gamer's experience at all (Not to be confused with developers, I'm talking more along the line of publishers, developers usually love their game and do what they can with the restrictions placed on them by corporations.)
So in conclusion
Early Access used to be a good option when it correctly served its purpose, but hasn't for some time now.
With the current state of Early Access games (majority) most games that use Early Access can appear to be cash-grab games of poor quality to the trained eye.
Gamers need to use their heads and not give their money willingly to a product they could not possibly know the full extent of the quality, or before negative reviews can be heard about the game (No NDA bull, yes I'm looking at you ESO.) and most certainly never pay for these products when the price is outrageous (again Archage.) as this promotes more bad games with over hyped and over priced Early Access to draw in the suckers and their money.
P.S. Too many positive reviews for most games, need more critics/negative reviews.
DayZ Standalone continues to be a top seller on Steam week in and week out. I would say that you are wrong. People are not sick of Early Access, people love Early Access. It's just some people don't fully understand Early Access.
Originally posted by Destai The best you can do is be the change you want to see. I refuse to pay for something on kickstarter, early access on steam, paid beta, or whatever else. If you don't have a complete product, I'm not buying anything. I feel like companies have gotten this idea that consumers can be venture capitalists, maybe inspired by some misguided notion democratizing game development, but I don't support that. I'm not a venture capitalist (sadly), I'm a middle class guy with a budget. I want that money to be well spent. Fanciful ideas need not apply.
That's great for you, as long as all you want is CoD XIV.
they will over-hype it, trying to get friends and other gamers to all get on board thinking it will help the game
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC DayZ Standalone continues to be a top seller on Steam week in and week out. I would say that you are wrong. People are not sick of Early Access, people love Early Access. It's just some people don't fully understand Early Access.
My opinion on DayZ is that people want the game to succeed but as a result over-hype it to be a better game than it actually is.
In regards to your statement that people are not tired of early access because of DayZ's sales reflected by steam, tell that to the current 16k+ negative reviews on the game.
Its just like RMT, people hate them but yet they still get paid.....Makes sense? If people dont like it, they aren't being forced to buy it. People are just stupid, sorry, and companies will continue to provide.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I have no problem with early access. I know what i am getting into.
Simply this.
If the OP and the so called people he seems to think he speaks for are unhappy with early access then wait till the game get's fully released.
Seems to me that the OP and co want to tell other people how to spend their own money lol.
I didn't see anywhere where to OP suggested anything for anyone else to do. It read to me like a post letting other people know that there is a growing number of people that are not happy with a feature MMO companies are offering.
I personally am burnt out on pre-launch money grab offers. I do like to beta test games, but that was back in the day when you actually tested a game.... now it is more like a pre-launch soft sale.
As long as people keep paying for something, someone will be offering it for sale.
Exactly the problem I was getting at in the 3rd point of my post.
So people liking and buying other things than you personally like is a "problem"?
I suggest moving to N-Korea. The system there is right up your alley.
Honestly, it's none of your business if other people "waste" their money or not.
You have all the control you need.
Vote with your wallet and stop complaining.
Gaendric, The question at hand here is do people actually "Like" early access? and are they being baited into paying for this service to get the products they "Like" but end up not being satisfied with the product they paid for? This thread is trying to bring to light that early access may be a bad thing for customers and the development of games.
Your post is also counter-productive, I of course vote with my wallet, but without informing and discussing with people the reasons of why I am making my vote then people may be making ill-informed decisions without hearing both sides of the story.
If you do not like complaining, don't read about complaining. Although I prefer to call this a debate and opinions thread.
You have all the control you need to not read this thread.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I have no problem with early access. I know what i am getting into.
Simply this.
If the OP and the so called people he seems to think he speaks for are unhappy with early access then wait till the game get's fully released.
Seems to me that the OP and co want to tell other people how to spend their own money lol.
I didn't see anywhere where to OP suggested anything for anyone else to do. It read to me like a post letting other people know that there is a growing number of people that are not happy with a feature MMO companies are offering.
I personally am burnt out on pre-launch money grab offers. I do like to beta test games, but that was back in the day when you actually tested a game.... now it is more like a pre-launch soft sale.
I don't get why people would be pissed with Early Access....you know its an unfinished product, so why get annoyed at what you have been told will be the case.
Its like ordering chocolate icecream and then getting pissed because you got chocolate icecream
Its almost like people are pissed that they have to acquire the willpower not to buy the game, and then are pissed at everyone else who is getting it....just because they decided not to...bizzzzzzare
I don't get why people would be pissed with Early Access....you know its an unfinished product, so why get annoyed at what you have been told will be the case.
Its like ordering chocolate icecream and then getting pissed because you got chocolate icecream....
This is due to the game making a focus more on marketing than to actually spend the money for finishing or improving the game. We have seen a wave of games launching on early access and beta packages that cost just as much, in some cases more than the actual game, and the game even when released, is not as good as the advertising seemed to let on.
The theory is that game companies are now just hyping up a game and getting paid before it is even complete, then after they have collected enough money to meet their marketing goal, to put the game in a minimal production mode, less updates, less content, not as good as it should be, so that they can maximize profits.
Would you buy a car while its still in the factory?
Originally posted by Lonewolf
Its almost like people are pissed that they have to acquire the willpower not to buy the game, and then are pissed at everyone else who is getting it....just because they decided not to...bizzzzzzare
To follow up on your edit,
The reason people are upset is because we don't want games to offer half-effort cash grab games, we are upset that people accept this level of quality and so long as they do we will not see any better quality games on the market. I find it bizarre that people cannot see this for themselves from a profit/business standpoint.
All we want, is quality games, not to empty our wallets for a poor quality game that can't deliver on the inflated level of fun/entertainment it rated for the sake of their company's own profits.
Who would not mind paying a few bucks to not wait in line? I would pay 3 bucks extra on a movie ticket to have the seat I wanted saved and I could show up just a few min before my movie started. Me first is something we all want, some are just willing to pay for it.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Who would not mind paying a few bucks to not wait in line? I would pay 3 bucks extra on a movie ticket to have the seat I wanted saved and I could show up just a few min before my movie started. Me first is something we all want, some are just willing to pay for it.
The issue at hand is that is ALL people are now paying for. Do you want to be the first to find out you payed for a game that is horrible even after release?
And were not talking about 3$ here, were talking 50$+ for a product thats supposed to be free is how bad it is getting.
Comments
It's money I earned and if I want to put that money in the hands of a developer to help fund a game then I have every right to do it. No one is forcing me to do it.
That being said, I have only done it for certain games and will not do it for big companies. They have their money.
If you do not like the idea then just wait for the game to be released.
No one is FORCING you to buy into early access.
I don't see the problem with pre-ordering. I see what the premise of the game is about and through videos or interviews I make a decision if I want to pre-order or not. Most of the time the cost is $60. Big deal. I have been burnt in the past and will get burnt again but the amount of money is small. Now when it comes to my truck, I make sure I know what needs to be done, who is doing it and if they are good at it and such because that starts to become big money. Games on the other hand is small money.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Actually, there are deals to be had, but I mostly agree with you. You know what, if companies really want to model their Crowdfunding after a game, they should really look at Firefall. Some might call it P2W, but it carried inherent value, and it really wasn't all that expensive.
They did a couple things really well. First, most games will make you spend, say, $20 and then give you a digital, in-game item + Early Access, and then call it a $100 value. Firefall charged you $20 and you got $20 of in-game currency to spend. That's not implied value, that's actual value. Whether or not you ever play the game is another thing, but you're getting your moneys worth right there. Secondly, and here's where the P2W crowd jumps on-board, is a permanent XP bonus ranging from 5%-15%. Like Damn! Just damn! Again, that's real value, and that value is incremental based on how much you actually play and how much you value your time. Some of the higher packages offered permanent Squad XP Bonuses, too, giving more value, and also mounts (which are simply time savers as well). Plus, you got a bunch of the BS Digital stuff, but at least there are some items with teeth that actually make the program compelling to buy into. THAT'S what companies should be doing, in my opinion.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Yes you are screwing over your fellow gamer and doing nothing to help the cause.
These devs should put the product out there FIRST,then gamer's decide if iti's worth paying to get into.You ever go shopping with a blindfold on,no of course not,matter of fact if they refused to let you see the product first,you would get angry and tell them where to stick it.
I don't remember a car salesman charging anyone to test drive a car and it is worth a ton more to each individual than a game is.It costs a developer maybe 20 cents a day to let a gamer in,a car dealer is taking a huge insurance risk if that test drive goes wrong.
Seems developers THINK allowing someone to login over the airwaves before anyone is worth money...well it is not.
The impatient people no question have a mind set about RACING and think they need to get something FIRST,ridiculous mind set to pay up front to get in before anyone else.To me it is like going to the movies and paying extra to move up to the front of the line,other normal people in the line would see that and just shake their head and talk all sorts of stuff about those people.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I can be an informed consumer with EA titles just by doing some research. There are always plenty of videos, streams and forum posts about the current state of the titles and how active the dev team is in regards to the progress and future of the product.
The problem with EA titles however can be when they become quick cash grabs for developers who never intend to finish the game or just lose interest in the project all together.
No signature, I don't have a pen
My personal opinion is that early access is a very big problem.
It used to be a nice feature to play a game early and buy it at a discount, however this system has been abused and perverted beyond its original purpose by big name companies whose goals are big business, not good games.
For example, look at Archage, I avoided this game like the plague as soon as I saw their founder packages for over 100$. Now think back to the original purpose of the Early Access, it is to provide early access, and to buy the game at a discounted price, Archage is a F2P game, so why would you charge for Early Access at all? and over 100s of $? Obviously a money grab and gave me the impression the game was going to be terrible item shopped or a terrible over advertised cash grab game.
Finally I think the biggest problem is some of the gaming community, mostly the gamers who are desperate for a new MMORPG and people from the "WoW Killer" generation. These people are so desperate for the next big new western MMORPG that they will fall for these scams in hopes of getting in that big MMORPG before any one else and fall for these scams. Not to mention they are so hopeful for the next MMORPG they will over-hype it, trying to get friends and other gamers to all get on board thinking it will help the game, when all you're really doing is lining the pockets of big corporation businesses men who actually don't care about gaming and don't care about gamer's experience at all (Not to be confused with developers, I'm talking more along the line of publishers, developers usually love their game and do what they can with the restrictions placed on them by corporations.)
So in conclusion
Early Access used to be a good option when it correctly served its purpose, but hasn't for some time now.
With the current state of Early Access games (majority) most games that use Early Access can appear to be cash-grab games of poor quality to the trained eye.
Gamers need to use their heads and not give their money willingly to a product they could not possibly know the full extent of the quality, or before negative reviews can be heard about the game (No NDA bull, yes I'm looking at you ESO.) and most certainly never pay for these products when the price is outrageous (again Archage.) as this promotes more bad games with over hyped and over priced Early Access to draw in the suckers and their money.
P.S. Too many positive reviews for most games, need more critics/negative reviews.
It is just an option.
If you don't like it, don't use it. I don't see harm if it is offered .. the worse is that no one will use it.
What developers THINK or HOPE FOR is of little consequence.
What's important is if consumers will pay for something. Clearly, consumers are throwing money at their screens when it comes to paid Early Access.
As long as people keep paying for something, someone will be offering it for sale.
Exactly the problem I was getting at in the 3rd point of my post.
That's great for you, as long as all you want is CoD XIV.
So people liking and buying other things than you personally like is a "problem"?
Honestly, it's none of your business if other people "waste" their money or not.
You have all the control you need.
Vote with your wallet and stop complaining.
My opinion on DayZ is that people want the game to succeed but as a result over-hype it to be a better game than it actually is.
In regards to your statement that people are not tired of early access because of DayZ's sales reflected by steam, tell that to the current 16k+ negative reviews on the game.
I didn't see anywhere where to OP suggested anything for anyone else to do. It read to me like a post letting other people know that there is a growing number of people that are not happy with a feature MMO companies are offering.
I personally am burnt out on pre-launch money grab offers. I do like to beta test games, but that was back in the day when you actually tested a game.... now it is more like a pre-launch soft sale.
Gaendric, The question at hand here is do people actually "Like" early access? and are they being baited into paying for this service to get the products they "Like" but end up not being satisfied with the product they paid for? This thread is trying to bring to light that early access may be a bad thing for customers and the development of games.
Your post is also counter-productive, I of course vote with my wallet, but without informing and discussing with people the reasons of why I am making my vote then people may be making ill-informed decisions without hearing both sides of the story.
If you do not like complaining, don't read about complaining. Although I prefer to call this a debate and opinions thread.
You have all the control you need to not read this thread.
+1
I don't get why people would be pissed with Early Access....you know its an unfinished product, so why get annoyed at what you have been told will be the case.
Its like ordering chocolate icecream and then getting pissed because you got chocolate icecream
Its almost like people are pissed that they have to acquire the willpower not to buy the game, and then are pissed at everyone else who is getting it....just because they decided not to...bizzzzzzare
This is due to the game making a focus more on marketing than to actually spend the money for finishing or improving the game. We have seen a wave of games launching on early access and beta packages that cost just as much, in some cases more than the actual game, and the game even when released, is not as good as the advertising seemed to let on.
The theory is that game companies are now just hyping up a game and getting paid before it is even complete, then after they have collected enough money to meet their marketing goal, to put the game in a minimal production mode, less updates, less content, not as good as it should be, so that they can maximize profits.
Would you buy a car while its still in the factory?
Originally posted by Lonewolf
Its almost like people are pissed that they have to acquire the willpower not to buy the game, and then are pissed at everyone else who is getting it....just because they decided not to...bizzzzzzare
To follow up on your edit,
The reason people are upset is because we don't want games to offer half-effort cash grab games, we are upset that people accept this level of quality and so long as they do we will not see any better quality games on the market. I find it bizarre that people cannot see this for themselves from a profit/business standpoint.
All we want, is quality games, not to empty our wallets for a poor quality game that can't deliver on the inflated level of fun/entertainment it rated for the sake of their company's own profits.
The issue at hand is that is ALL people are now paying for. Do you want to be the first to find out you payed for a game that is horrible even after release?
And were not talking about 3$ here, were talking 50$+ for a product thats supposed to be free is how bad it is getting.